We recently discussed the collapse of the Whitmer kidnapping case after a jury acquitted defendants in Michigan. Now, one of the lead prosecutors is leaving the case, according to a motion filed by Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Roth. That adds questions about how the case will move forward after the earlier loss.
Shortly before the 2020 election, Gov. Whitmer stood before cameras describing her narrow escape from being kidnapped and murdered by “domestic terrorists.” Despite the fact that the Justice Department in the Trump Administration made these arrests, Whitmer blamed former president Donald Trump. President Biden agreed that Trump was fostering a “civil war.”
The media went into a frenzy, declaring that the case proved that “Trump’s rhetoric and policies have unleashed a second pandemic in the form of far-right domestic terrorism.”
The problem is that the case — and the narrative — quickly fell apart after the election. A Michigan jury recently acquitted Daniel Harris and Brandon Caserta and hanged on the verdicts against Adam Fox and Barry Croft Jr. Fox is portrayed as a ringleader of the group and leader of the conspiracy.
While Fox and Croft can be retried, the acquittal raises an additional challenge. Harris and Caserta may feel fewer inhibitions in testifying. With the exception of perjury, they can safely take the stand to discuss their actions — and more importantly, the actions of the government.
The Michigan case stands as one of the most chilling examples of entrapment techniques used by the FBI. While Whitmer declared Trump “complicit” in her planned execution, the FBI increasingly appeared more “complicit” in the creation of a government-inspired, government-funded, and largely government-staffed plot.
The problem was that these guys seemed at points more interested in partying than conspiring. The FBI, therefore, decided to take control and get them serious about some major crimes. An informant known as “Big Dan” was paid over $50,000 to get the conspiracy going, including paying for the defendants to travel to Wisconsin to “train.”
Special Agent Jayson Chambers pushed Big Dan to get the men to take violent acts against Whitmer. The defendants reportedly resisted those entreaties. Dan pushed the alleged leader to fire a round into the window of Whitmer’s home and mail the casing to the news media. On Sept. 5, 2020, Chambers texted to remind Dan “Mission is to kill the governor specifically.“
The Whitmer conspiracy was a production written, funded, and largely populated by FBI agents and informants. At every point, FBI literally drove the conspirators and controlled their actions. In the end, a majority of the “conspirators” were actually FBI agents or informants.
As discussed earlier, various key FBI agents and informants were removed from the case due to their own legal problems.
Now, Roth is pulling out. That will create a vacuum in the second trial. Retrials often allow prosecutors to better prepare for defense arguments. Yet, it has lost one of the prosecutor most experienced in the case.
Politically, it would be highly damaging for both Biden and Whitmer to have the case dropped. The question is whether the reduction of the defendants and the change in the prosecution team will change the prospect for convictions. It could work for the defense if the two acquitted parties are more active in the case. Conversely, focusing on the alleged leader could strengthen the optics for the jury by eliminating marginal figures.
There could also be a more generous plea deal offered to the defense to avoid the threat of acquittal. It is notable to see a lead prosecutor bow out in such a high-profile case. Whether this indicates other significant changes in the case will likely become clear in the coming days.
Merrick Garland may want to check out an article written by Ken Silverstein at “The Intercept” in 2014 titled “And the Winner of the ‘War on Terror’ financed 2014 dream home is”. Found at http://www.the intercept.com
This is a great legal foundation for Garland to gain context and how to initiate proper reforms.
Anybody who might still find the FBI to be a decent agency might be surprised to hear from convicted fbi agent terry albury https://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2021/09/01/destroy-people/
For those still telling us the 2020 election was fair and that Sleepy Joe MaGoo is the legit President with 80 million votes, here’s a primer from the Special Counsel on how the slimeball Dims and their Facebook hatchet-man Suckin’ Zuck stole the presidential election in Wisconsin. Oh and there’s more coming,
https://youtu.be/rGO7hZwiBwY
What would you say the odds are that the FBI is hoping that this case will just disappear from the public view? Does the FBI want to see their reputation further diminished by a second trial? My estimation is that there is a conversation going on somewhere were they’re saying they think it’s best if they just let this one go. If the FBI payed for the conspiracy isn’t the FBI the conspirators. What if the bullet that was shot into Whitmer’s home had hit and killed someone wouldn’t that bullet have been paid for by the FBI? What if the bullet hit and killed Governor Whitmer? You can see the headline now. “Read all about it! Read all about it! Governor Whitmer killed with bullet supplied by the FBI? That’s a headline worthy of blood red ink.
Sorry—the headline would be: MAGA followers conspire and assassinate the governor, over and over, 24/7/365. End of story. Anyone not parroting that narrative would be doxxed, canceled, and imprisoned, Jan 6 style. .
Turley is slowly coming around the fact that the left has politicized the DoJ. It has taken him a while, and still, starts with believing the DoJ is an apolitical justice dept. Too often now, that deference has been abused.
Andrew McCarthy was defending DoJ early on in the Clinton fueled Russian Scam But he too finally said enough is enough, and admitts the DoJ is hopelessly corrupt and infected with leftist political doctrine, and actively working to have Democrats elected to office.
This is a snippet of a McCarthy piece from October of 2012 and exposing the Holder DoJ. But he still supported them until the Russia scam became to overwhelming.
Nobody can claim McCarthy is some right wing nut job.
“What we’re seeing in this administration,” said McCarthy, “is not only an out-of-whack choice about what their priorities ought to be, but the actual use of political philosophy in deciding who gets prosecuted, and how cases get conducted—and that, for somebody who’s been inside the Justice Department, is an unbelievable thing…
Andrew McCarthy lost confidence when it was shown that the FBI/DOJ had used the unverified allegations from the Steele dossier in their FISA applications against Carter Page. Before that he had written several articles arguing that it was inconceivable that these allegations would be used without specific confirmation from the FBI’s own independent investigation. He appears to have been genuinely shocked by what was done.
Make that “too overwhelming”. What, specifically, qualifies one as a “right wing nut job”? And are there “left wing nut jobs”? One never hears that terminology. I am baffled by that MSM description. Enlighten me.
The reason MSM doesn’t refer to left wing nut jobs is the same reason you never hear right wing nut jobs refer to right wing nut jobs. Like bloodsucking vampires they can’t see their own reflections.
So why is a prosecutor walking away from one of the most important cases of the century? If he was able to get a conviction his future would be financially secure. His name would be renowned in all the leftist law offices of the world. Instead he is walking away from a case that could pave his future road with gold. Maybe he has seen the assayers report and has decided to close the mine to keep the town folk from further pointing out that he is a fool. At least he knows when to cut his losses.
Look at the conviction/guilty plea rate of DoJ prosecutors. It is way past 90% They only take stuff to trial the ones where they are the only ones with the facts, or get plea deals by threatening the people close tot he accused. This case was always a mess. The prosecutor was never going to put her conviction rate on the line again. My guess she was lied to about what the real facts were and believed the FBI.
The FBI’s early history under J. Edgar Hoover set the format for the FBI behavior we’ve been witnessing in the modern era. To call all FBI agents corrupt would be a horrible mistake. But the ‘head’ has been rotten on and off for most of the FBI’s existence. This Michigan case is, to use one of Chuck Schumer’s favorite words, ‘concerning.’
. To call all FBI agents corrupt would be a horrible mistake.
That used to be my exact position.
But what we have seen since at least Obama, is blanket corruption and not a single whistle blower. If I met an FBI agent I would assume they have corrupt self serving intentions. If they asked for the time, I would request a lawyer before answering.
The problems with the FBI long predate Obama. They have been arround all my life.
All that is changed is the political direction of the problems.
Governing is incredibly hard – that is one of many reasons it must be limited.
Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
The greater the power the greater the corruption.
amen.
The FBI has had problems near from the start.
It has been political near from the start.
It has not always acted for the benefit of the same political party,
but it has always acted corruptly.
All FBI agents are not corrupt – but it is almost a given that a high profile case will feature FBI corruption.
Ruby Ridge,
Richard Jewel,
Numerous islamic domestic terrorist investigations
The Anthrax investigation.
Uranium One,
Clinton’s email server,
The Collusion Delussion,
and now the whitmer kidnapping.
And those are just off the top of my head since the 90’s.
Nor is the FBI alone.
Decades of CIA meddling in other countries has been disasterous.
Ultimately government agencies serve their OWN interests – not that of the people, not that of the law, not that of their elected leaders.
Wake up, cretins! The whole Ice Queen fiasco was yet another failed collusion by the FBI/Dimunist Party crime syndicate….just like the Jan. 6 fraud. This country has become a pathetic, sad joke—its ‘leadership’ (and I use the term VERY loosely!) and the lazy, complacent, ignorant citizenry that allows this to go on unbridled!
John B Say,
I think that is the best analysis I have read about current and recent affairs.
Well said, sir.
Could it be that the prosecutor might be part of the entrapment and it’s now time to exit? What problems do the agent’s face who contrived the entire fiasco? Was the governor part of the entrapment and what charges can she face? Someone received $50,000 to entrap can those cleared seek a monetary reward for what they and their families went through?
The answer is an ABSOLUTE “YES”. Wretched Whitless needs to be impeached, convicted, and summarily hung. And the corrupt FBI? As one demented fool has said many times, “Come on, man!” It is WELL past time to dissolve this crime syndicate. Drain and dredge the entire District of Corruption swamp!
OMG, Turley, the opening line of this piece is a disingenuous spin: “We recently discussed the collapse of the Whitmer kidnapping case after a jury acquitted defendants in Michigan. Now, one of the lead prosecutors is leaving the case, according to a motion filed by Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Roth. That adds questions about how the case will move forward after the earlier loss.” The case did NOT “collapse”: It was a split decision: 2 acquittals, but the jury was hung as to the other two, so it was not a “loss” for the prosecution, either. And, are you going to once again try to spin the withdrawal of prosecutors as proof of the lack of merit, like you did with the Manhattan prosecution of Trump, in which you misrepresented the reason for the withdrawal as lack of merit, but it was really because the special prosecutors who withdrew did so because they strongly disagreed with the DA not going after Trump more aggressively, indicating their opinion that he was guilty of various felonies beyond a reasonable doubt. Turley: you’ve never addressed your misread of that scenario, so I think that maybe you might have learned to tread more lightly.
So, since you are being paid by Fox to spin, here’s a different perspective: the defense FAILED to get an acquittal as to ALL defendants. You didn’t even bother to analyze the evidence as to those who were and were not acquitted. Everything else you said was also paid spin, but as we all know that the reason for this piece of excrement was an attack on the FBI, Gov. Whitmer and the mainstream media. The bottom line of the equation is that the FBI didn’t force anyone to do anything.
Nutacha – the case collapsed.
Read what Turley wrote.
FBI Agents were caught pushing FBI informants to push the defendants to commit violent crimes.
That is about as bad as it can get.
You and I can debate the extent to which a person is legally culpable when they act voluntarily to commit a crime – even if aggressively pushed by government.
But there is no doubt at all that Government is forbidden to manufacture crimes.
In our system government misconduct is punished primarily by thwarting prosecutions.
Personally, I think that is bad policy. We should continue to prosecute those who are guilty – even where their rights were violated – in most cases. But we should ALSO prosecute law enforcement.
But that is not our current system.
I would further note – that REGARDLESS, there can be no “conspiracy” convictions – when the conspiracy is with law enforcement.
The norm for conspiracy is that there must be a group agreement to commit a crime, and there must be an actual act furthering that agreement.
When there is entrappment there should NEVER be a prosecution for conspiracy – only Actually committing the underlying crime.
In this case – you should NEVER be culpable for working at the impetus of government to kidnap or murder.
Only if you actually murder or attempt to murder should you be prosecuted.
Regardless, Turley’s remarks are if anything restrained.
Read the actual descriptions of the actions of FBI agents.
Don’t bother replying to “trolls and juvenile posters”. They’re not here to add anything constructive to the blog. They just come here to agitate and unfortunately people take the bail. Ignore the “trolls”.
@Natacha,
Do you actually read what Turley wrote along with following and understanding the case?
The evidence presented showed that this was entrapment and led by the FBI.
What Turley is pointing out is that the two who were acquitted can now more freely talk about what transpired.
The hung jury means that while the Prosecution can retry… the issue is if the prosecution can win if retried.
Think about this… the lead prosecutor drops out. While no reason was provided… you can bet it wasn’t one in favor of the prosecution.
The state could just drop this… or it could risk going forward in the hopes of a conviction only to get a major black eye.
Considering that this is an election year… it won’t bode well for the current administration. And considering the MI Gov. comments against Trump? It won’t go well for the Dems in MI …
OK, Gumby, Turley said the same thing about the reasons why Manhattan DA’s special prosecutors who withdrew from Trump’s prosecution and he was dead wrong. It was a total split, not a defeat for the prosecution. If it was as cut and dried as you say, it would have been a clean sweep. Like the blind disciple you are, you somehow attempt to tie this to Biden: “it won’t bode well for the current administration”. What does Biden have to do with this prosecution? Trump is a chronic loser: he lost the Senate for Republicans, so keep on dreaming about your hero.
Choosing to remain ignorant is a stupid choice. These cases are not gray, nor are the facts muddy. You are so emotionally attached to the Democrats you can’t think reasonably. Prosecutors who use political considerations whether to prosecute or not are unethical political hacks who are abusing their office. That’s true with so very many Democrat prosecutors at all levels of government.
Samuel Delany, I appreciate your criticism of Natacha. There is one question that I have repeatedly asked her that she will never answer. Why won’t Hunter just say that the laptop is not his and that the information found on the laptop is not true. She tries to throw doubt on the laptop’s authenticity by introducing Giuliani into her argument but she never has answered why Hunter won’t say that the laptop is not his or that any of the texts and pictures are fake. She tells us that the laptop is not authentic but CNN, The New York Times and Politico Magazine now tell us that the laptop is authentic. One would think, that like these news agencies Natacha in a moment of honesty might at least say “My bad.” Instead she just continues to double down. Even the stupidest of gamblers learns to walk away from a bad hand.
and everyone on the left – including nutacha owes Gulliani an appology.
Nutacha noted that Guilliani was facing ethics challenges.
Every attorney that went after Guilliani over Biden and Ukraine should face ethics charges.
Nutacha is still trying to use Guilliani as an albatross to hang arround our necks when HE WAS RIGHT.
This BTW is comonplace with the left.
I am not a big fan of the “extreme” right groups today.
But most if you actually look at them are tame.
Proud Boys is not racist.
Nor are oath keepers
patriot prayer
Frankly even the Qanon followers are nutty – but not dangerous.
The only consequential extremist group in the US is antifa.
And BLM is affiliated with more violence accross the country than all purported right groups combined.
In 5 decades – there may be a right wing danger – there is not today.
The consequential nutjobs are on the left.
@Natacha,
You have to remember, that at trial, the judge/jury must make their decision based on the evidence presented in court.
You want to co-mingle two different cases. And no, Turley wasn’t wrong in either.
You also clearly don’t seem to follow simple logic.
Remind me who controls the FBI? (Can you say DoJ)
Which branch of government controls the DoJ?
So a black eye for the FBI is a black eye for the DoJ and thus also a black eye for the current administration.
Unlike myself, you disparage Trump and present no facts to back up your opinion. While Trump routinely put his size 12 in his mouth and flouted his ego… He also seemed to get US and Foreign Policy right.
Joe Biden? He’s done nothing right during his administration up to this point. Harris? Even worse.
Because Biden can’t give Trump credit… anything Trump did had to be reversed. This is the basis for the lax of border control, weak foreign policy, and weak control of US infrastructure.
Biden can take credit for being the worst POTUS in the history of this country with only Jimmy Carter and Obama cheering him on.
Now that’s not a voice in support of Trump, but that Biden makes not only Trump look good, but also Hilary Clinton look good in comparison.
And look, I didn’t even talk about the compromised Biden and China. (Where’s Hunter? )
“a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”
You wishes that Trump has committed a crime do not constitute evidence.
We have listened to years of incredibly stupid legal claims – often made by the leading lights of the left.
All these claims do is bolster the rights claim that we need judges that stick narrowly to the letter of the law.
Every leftist legal theory of criminality on the left suffers from the same flaw – the argument fails when the shoe is on the other foot.
Biden is ranting in the whitehouse demanding the prosecution of Trump.
Democrats have not impeached him.
Seeking the prosecution of a political rival is only impeachable if done by Republicans.
2020 Election fraud is “the big lie” – no the long list of contenders for that prize – including Trump did not legitimately win in 2016.
Flynn must be prosecuted – but Sussman is innocent.
and on and on.
One wonders what is taught at law schools ?
The actual remedy is the one thing the left most vigorously opposes – real viewpoint diversity.
I would suggest that we bring back debate to law schools, colleges and even high school.
And we regularly require students to argue for the side they disagree with.
I recently watched netflix documentary on the Bard Prison Initiative.
Prison Inmates attending Bard college debated Harvard, drew the side of the debate that they disagreed with and CRUSHED Harvard.
How ? They did the work, they learned the strongest points and arguments for a position that was not popular and that they insinctively disagreed with, and they debaters from Harvard were blindsided. They though the debate would be easy. They thought that because they were on the side they thought was the angels their silver tongues and the rightness of their argument would prevail.
They lost BADLY.
Just as you do all the time.
Fox to spin, here’s a different perspective: the defense FAILED to get an acquittal as to ALL defendants
The law says all for are innocent. Burden of proof rests with the govt.
Two of them didn’t walk, and can be tried again.
Two of them didn’t walk, and can be tried again.
AND today they are innocent. All four of the men are innocent.
Only for the charges that were not dismissed.
Further the govenrment nearly always does worse in retrials – even retrials where the courts threw out a conviction on a constitutional issue.
It is very rare for the govenrments case to get stronger.
But the defense now knows all its weaknesses and can do a better job next times.
Further – it is embarassing to lose.
It is really really embarassing to lose twice.
What part of innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY don’t you get. A hung jury means defendants were not proven guilty and thus innocent unless and until they are convicted. As of the here and now all defendants are innocent because there were NO CONVICTIONS. If and when the prosecution retries the 2 who the first jury hung on, those defendants will go into a retrial PRESUMED INNOCENT.
Apology to John B Say. I mistakenly thought your comment was a reply to Iowan2.
Not being able to get a conviction is a case collapse.
Natacha, we are going to remember your post. If the retrying of the case of two of the defendants does not occur we will be here to remind you of your twisted post. You tried to tell us that the RussiaGate hoax was the real deal and that the Hunter laptop was Russian disinformation. You also told us that CRT was not being taught to elementary aged children (see “Anti-Racist Baby”). In consequence we have held your feet to the fire. You can rest assured that if it turns out that the prosecutors decide not to retry the defendants we will further place your feet into the inferno. Unlike you the prosecutors may find it necessary to not beat a dead horse. We will watch and wait and just as in the now in the future we will remember. Your credibility fell through the thin ice long ago. We will remember.
This will be the LAST TIME I correct your lie about me claiming that “Russian disinformation” was tied to the Hunter laptop. I NEVER said that, but you keep lying about it. What I DID say was that Giuliani bragged that he had the goods on Hunter and that Trump was going to use information allegedly on the laptop to derail Biden at the next debate because Trump performed so poorly at the first debate. What I DID say is that Giuliani copied the hard drive and distributed copies to Congressional Republicans BEFORE handing it over to the FBI. As it turns out, there are serious grounds to question the authenticity of some of the entries which are dated after the hard drive was left at the computer shop. And, as it turns out, Giuliani is under disbarment proceedings for lying to federal courts.
There is no “RussiaGate hoax”. Trump cheated to get into office, proven not just by the Mueller Report, but Dan Coats, head of US Intelligence said so, as did the findings of a Republican Senate committee. CRT is NOT taught in grade schools. There’s no “we” on this blog: you just make things up and falsely accuse me of things because you have no answer to the facts that I publish.
If the prosecutors decide not to go forward, so be it and such a decision hinges on lots of things neither you, Turley nor I do or can know about, but that doesn’t change the accuracy of what I wrote, nor the fact that Turley is trying to take a victory lap over a split decision he is spinning as a prosecutorial defeat.
Bahahahahhaha….You are quite the character. You really are dense if you believe a word you wrote.
You do realize noone buys your BS, right?
The NY Post autheticated before running with it. Get over it
Nutacha – there is not a chance this is the last time you spray us with utter nonsense.
If you did not claim the Biden laptop was “russian disinformation” you are the only left wing nut in the country who did not.
Regardless, I am sure someone can go through you past posts and confirm that.
Guilliani is a great man who like other great men should have retired sooner.
While he did an acceptable job of bringing the Biden clan corruption out in the news – because he was more likely to get coverage than John Solomon – fundimentally the best reporting prior to the emergence of the Laptop was John Solomons.
And John did way more than enough to demonstrate the stench of corruption – alot of it using Documents Hunter sent to the US state department or state department communications about Hunter.
Guillini’s handling of the election challenge was unfortunately quite poor. He was two sheets to the wind through most of the challenges.
By far the best challenge was mounted for the TX and other States challenge direct to the supreme court.
But all the election challenges suffered from the same fundimentally problem – the courts were complicit in conducting a lawless election.
They were NEVER going to look into the possible consequences of their own actions.
38 states in the US have state constitutional provisions requiring secret ballot elections.
Secret ballots require than no voter can ever have the ability to prove to anyone else how they voted.
Ballot secrecy is NOT a right of the person voting that they can waive.
It is a right and requirement of OTHER voters to prevent fraud.
These constitutional provisions are not some recent republican racist, anti-democratic plot – they are all well over a century old and the consequence of massively fraudulent elections in the 19th century – that we will get back if mailin voting continues.
Prior to the general election a judge in a Newark primary threw out over 200K mailin votes as invalid.
This is when the Democratic party paniced. Large scale mailin voting would NEVER stand up to real scrutiny.
Even without fraud – which was near certain, it is likely that about 6% of all mailin ballots would be tossed – that is the norm for first time mailin voters, for failure to properly establish eligability to vote and proof of identity.
I would note that is pretty much what every audit so far has found too – but you can not remove allots that should have been rejected once they are separated from their envelopes. That is how secret ballots work and why they are completely incompatible with mailin voting.
Secret balloting is an antifraud measure – a very effective one. But if you eliminate the requirement that ballots can never leave the control of election officials – it becomes an obstacle to the detection of fraud.
I would note that nearly all western countries and most countries in the world have secret ballots. Evn banana republics – but in 2020 the US did not.
There is absolutely no way to secure mailin voting. It can not be done. And regardless of what you might do, I can guarantee you that if I personally wanted to so long as you have mailin voting – I alone with limited resources could tip any slection in any state, and never get caught. You can not fix mailin voting.
But the courts blessed it because of Covid and having done so lawlessly they were complicit in the mess that followed and were not going to fix it.
You keep spinning the same sh*t over and over again, but it is still sh*t. Giuliani lied to multiple federal courts about nonexistent voter fraud. The lawsuits he and Powell filed failed because there were NO facts to support the allegations. They were forced to admit this over and over again at hearing after hearing. They were hoping to get injunctions to prevent Biden from taking office based on nothing but the Big Lie, and then try to gin up some proof later on. You can’t simply go to a federal court and claim fraud, get an injunction and then hope to dredge up evidence to support your allegations. A lawsuit must start with facts that can be proven, and there never was, and never will be, any such proof of widespread fraud. Trump was predicted to lose and he had never secured even a 50% approval rating, so his loss is not surprising. In fact, anything other than a loss would have been surprising. More than 60 courts threw out the lawsuits because they were bogus. Giuliani has had his law license suspended for lying. I don’t have the link now, but look up the order of the NY Disciplinary Commission when it suspended Giuliani’s license: it goes into detail about how and why each and every one of the things Giuliani has claimed are totally false. That’s the reason the suits failed: THERE ARE NO FACTS establishing voter or election fraud, not complicity by the courts, as you claim, or even Giuliani’s drunkenness (or his habitual farting, either).
The Republican lie machine has managed create uncertainty as to what happens to ballots in an election, but 2020 was the most-secure in US history. Chris Krebs, a Trump appointee as the head of US Cybersecurity, said so and was fired for telling the truth. There were poll watchers and representation by both major parties at polling places, when the ballots were packed up, when they were transported, and when they were counted. Trump lost, pure and simple. Get over it and move on.
Nope, not moving on. Biden is an illegitimate president.
Where’s your proof, and why hasn’t it surfaced, or, importantly, why did Trump claim his glorious “landslide victory” was going to be “stolen” even before Election Day because the election was “rigged” against him, based just on his poor standing in the polls which wounded his precious ego? Wake up and stop believing lies. Be an American patriot for a change instead of a disciple.
Nutacha – it is very hard to address you – because frankly you are so off the wall.
You say “I never said” – you say so many crazy things, no one has the time to fact check your false claims about yourself.
Nor do they care.
Your nuts.
You are not even consistently nuts in the same way.
And you can not get fundimental facts right.
First – you do not know what Guilliani or Trump or anyone else THINKS.
I watched the debates – Trump even won the one where he was coming down with Covid.
The debates WERE a victory of sorts for Biden – but only because he did not end up a balling idiot rolling on the floor.
Trump did confront Biden in the 2nd debate over the laptop – and as with several other issues that Trump confornted Biden on
BIDEN LIED.
Only a complete moron does not grasp that. Frankly you had to be pretty thick to not grasp it at the time.
Regardless, The laptop is REAL, it was Hunters, the contents are a treasure trove exposing the garbage lives of Hunter and the entire Biden clann. It is NOT russian disinformation.
And YOU, the media, the left, democrats, ALL bough the lie, and censored the truth.
We can fight over election fraud.
But there is zero doubt that but for the left, the media, the democrats, the deep state BALD FACED LYING for Biden he would not be president.
Whether the election was won through voter fraud or not – it ABSOLUTELY was won through FRAUD – DECEIPT, LYING,
And you were and still are part of that.
No one cares about your idiotic and likely false hairsplitting over what you said almost 2 years ago.
The fact is Guillinia – who you STILL seek to defame was RIGHT, and You were wrong.
But it is worse than that. Guilliani, Trump, and an assortment of others – like Glenn Greewald were not only RIGHT, they were OBVIOUSLY right.
You and your ilk were not merely wrong but OBVIOUSLY wrong.
Sufficiently wrong that, we are beyond wrong, beyond even lying and deep into FRAUD/HOAX.
Nor is this the first time.
You are still selling the Collusion delusion HOAX.
This is pretty simple at this point.
The Clinton Campaign sold a HOAX a FRAUD to DOJ/FBI that tore apart this country and that millions of guilible people like you bought into.
Durham is in court fighting over whether some parts of that HOAX also were crimes.
That is of small importance.
Whether no one ever faces jail – it was still a PROVEN HOAX.
All the people you HATE were RIGHT – and YOU were not just wrong – but HORRIBLY wrong.
And your still praying that Sussman will get off on a legal technicality.
Even if Judge Cooper ruled in Sussmans favor and dismissed this,
It would not change that The Clinton campaign sold a HOAX to everyone.
Your incapable of seeing the obvious. And fixated on details that have no importance.
While you are off in lala land regarding the laptop.
The OWNER copied it before giving it to the FBI.
You say there is reason to question the authenticity of some of it ?
Name a single email, text, photo, …. that has been reported on publicly that has NOT been confirmed ?
The most critical elements were proven BEFORE the election – you just did not hear about it because you and the media are holding your hands over your ears jumping up and down and shouting “la la la la, I cant hear you”
Regardless, are you claiming that Gulliani altered the hard drive ?
Or are you so much of an idiot that you are claiming that AFTER copying the hard drive – Gulliani went to Russian and he and Putin added some fake BS ?
So far the only people caught (repeatedly) in manufacturing false claims are the Clinton campaign.
You are wrong about the Senate report, you are wrong about Mueller.
But that does not matter. Durham has proven beyond any doubt that the information fed to the FBI was all FAKE. A series of HOAXES.
There were no russian sources for the Steele Dossier – it was concocted by Fussion GPS and an aparatiche at Brookings using gossip from democrats. The Alpha bank nonsense was proven false long ago, But Durham recently proved it was an actual HOAX – like the steele dossier.
With respect to your claims regarding Mueller and the Senate report – you are wrong.
But even if you were not – all that would prove is that Mueller and the Senate were deceived by the HOAX.
This is all a house of cards and the foundations are totally rotten.
Nothing resting on that foundation is true.
You owe Gulliani, Trump and many others apologies for LYING about them.
You constantly chase meaningless and often false details down rabitholes.
Outside of DC any jury in the country would have convicted Joe Biden of Public corruption based on the evidence BEFORE the laptop showed up. The laptop was a Hunter Biden confirming it all and more.
The laptop adds a wild card to a poker hand that already has 4 aces.
You are off in the woods on your added files nonsense.
Wrong,
and so what ?
You seem to think if you can cast doubt on a tiny part, you cast doubt on the whole.
The most damning information is corroborated and was at the time by govenrment records, public records, and many of the parties involved.
The FACT is that Biden lied in the debate REPEATEDLY, the press KNEW and covered that up, and social media CENSORED the TRUTH.
Did they all gather in a smoke filled room and conspire to elect Biden by fraud ?
NOPE, but the each acted in concert towards the common goal of getting joe elected – by hoax and fraud if necescry.
What Durham has exposed undermines EVERYTHING.
It even undermines Horowitz’s claim that some of the FBI’s actions were reasonable.
This was a HOAX from the start – all the way to the bottom.
And those involved – including the FBI knew it.
The left tells us:
CRT is not being taught in schools.
It is being taught – but that is a good thing that we should not be upset about
and it is necescary to teach CRT – because otherwise how would kids learn about slavery, racism and civil rights.
These are obviously stupid and self contradictory positions.
First – there is a meaningless debate over the meaning of CRT. This is trivially addressed by confronting what is ACTUALY being taught.
Is Anti-Racist Baby CRT ? Who cares ? It is obviously racist garbage that should not be taught in public schools.
Parents are reading from the curiculum or ciricula materail – and what they are reading the do not want taught to their kids.
What is being taught is evil and racist – whatever you call it.
And last – I graduated from HS in 1976. I would bet I know far more about slavery, the abolitionist movement, lynching, the civil rights movement, and racism in the US that someone graduating today.
No one hid from us the deep flaws this country has.
Yet I still graduated – even after Vietnam, with the Correct impression that this country despite its flaws is still a light to the world.
The fundimental problem with what the left wants is that it seeks to burn everything to ash to rid the world of the last vestiges of past mistakes – only to impose modern perversions of those same failures – absent the redeeming features that were core to this countries values and why we were eventually able to rid ourselves of slavery – at great cost.
To those looking for reparations – 350K people died to rid this country of slavery. And they died killing about 250K of their brothers to do so.
Give it up Natty. Your side is corrupt and the truth is coming out. Go scurry back under the rock from which you slithered.
You are estranged from the reality surrounding this case, and all the other fake issues the corrupt Democrats cooked up. Democrats are liars, thieves, cheaters, and traitors. Wake up moron, the criminals whose rear ends you sniff are corrupt and incompetent. Yes, reality sucks! But, at least you won’t continue to be stuck on stupid.
What you are writing sounds like it is just rabid ad hominem.
What is extremely troubling is that it is increasingly evident that it is true.
There is absolutely nothing about this country that democrats are not prepared to change over night with little thought as to what the consequences will be.
Conservatism is NOT an ideology, it is the real world observation that no matter how bad things are it is possible and usually easy to make them worse.
The government and institutions we had took 150,000 years to evolve. They are not perfect – far from it.
But they do actually work – as is evidenced by the fact that we are in the most prosperous moment of human existance.
We all want change – we all want better – but we do not want to destroy what we have on the way to something better.
Obama turned change into a motto. But all change is not good, infact most change is actually bad. It is hard to do better than what has taken 150,000 years to evolve. Change can be good – but that is actually rarely so.
Democrats took power – and deliberately or accidentally blew things up, and worse they do not seem to care and are looking to blow things up even further.
Democrats took power – and deliberately or accidentally blew things up, and worse they do not seem to care and are looking to blow things up even further.
Agreed 100%.
The scientific data on COVID Infection Fatality Rate (0.05%), decades of scientific journals pre-dating 2020 / COVID-19 era reflecting the lack of efficacy of cloth / surgical / N95 masks re viral barrier, “trans” being shoved down our throats and creating new pronouns, while hard working, dedicated young female athletes have their dreams destroyed by males who “transitioned” under the misnomer of MTF, gender dysphoria, puberty blockers for children (!), sex gender transition surgeries for children / young ones under the age of 25 (when the brain has fully developed), characterizing kindergarten through grade 3 children as open season when it comes to sex talk, doxxing Jews in a disgusting anti-Semitic hit piece in WaPo, defending said piece, the constant lying and demonizing by the legacy media, and now California seeking to remove physicians from their profession for challenging the government opinion on medical matters, I too am left to believe that Biden’s handlers and the Democrats across the nation, are intent on destroying us all.
Then there is this:
https://www.floridahealth.gov/newsroom/2022/04/20220420-gender-dysphoria-press-release.pr.html
“ Florida Department of Health Releases Guidance on Treatment of Gender Dysphoria for Children and Adolescents”
Tallahassee, Fla. — Today, the Florida Department of Health released guidance regarding the treatment of gender dysphoria for children and adolescents. This guidance uses the most up-to-date scientific data available, and it prioritizes the overall health and well-being of Florida’s children and adolescents. The Department’s guidance is available here.
“The federal government’s medical establishment releasing guidance failing at the most basic level of academic rigor shows that this was never about health care,” said State Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo. “It was about injecting political ideology into the health of our children. Children experiencing gender dysphoria should be supported by family and seek counseling, not pushed into an irreversible decision before they reach 18.”
@Estovir,
Untreated the initial strain of COVID-19 was shown to have a 2% mortality rate across the entire adult population.
This would mean that without anything… we could expect to have 6M dead in the US.
Globally there was not enough good data. Testing or rather accurate testing was not available and in some cases many who may have had COVID did not get tested. For example, unless you were hospitalized, you were not tested for COVID. So you could have it, told to self quarantine but since not tested, you weren’t counted.
The other issue is that while the US had an overall 2% mortality rate, the mortality rate was higher in certain segments of the population. Older, w co-morbid health issues.
That’s the truth about COVID. Trump’s focus on Operation Warp Speed was in fact the correct move.
While there were risks w the vaccine(s), they were outweighed with the benefits in the most at risk age groups.
Biden mucked things up. Trump had the logistics and plans in place.
Biden should have pivoted focus to treatments. Instead rode out the vaccines. With more and more boosters.
The other issue was in lowing the age for the vaccines.
W.R.T masking… that was a major joke.
N95 or P100 respirators were the only things that would be effective if worn properly.
But we didn’t have enough of either. (3M manufactured the masks in China.) [oops!]
Then the other face coverings were a joke. Especially when worn outside.
There is so much more… Just wanted to set the record straight.
-G
Gender Dysphoria is like innumerable issues. Particularly in younger children.
In nearly all instances doing nothing is the best course of action.
The hypocratic oath starts with “First do no harm”
The left does not grasp that.
I am not a huge fan of parents. I have two adult children and fortunately I did not ruin them.
Most other parents I know suck. Some are inherently evil.
We should not expect that relying on parents to deal with many issues is going to be smooth and trouble free
It is not, it is a mess.
BUT the track record of government is orders of magnitude WORSE.
Charles Manson was the product of government parenting.
The rates of rape, and other abuse of children in govenrment care dwarf those with parents.
It is so bad that a child sexually abused by a parent is more likely to experience further abuse if taken from the parent than if left with them.
One of he problems with the left (and some others) is they expect perfection.
We are seeing a rise in politicians left and right as well as some in the military – even people I respect saying that NOW is the time to take care of Putin – to DEFEAT the russian army. There is a slowly increasing drumbeat to see us, the US NATO to take an active role.
I understand there desire – but for god sake NO!
Regime change has never worked.
The Russians must decide their govenrment on their own.
Nor should we play russian roullete were there are nukes in the mix.
Again we need to accept LESS than perfect outcomes.
We live in the best moment of time except tomorow. Not perfect, but we need to accept not only that it is good, but that it has taken lots of work to make it that good, and that it can be made bad fairly easily.
I do not care much about the decisions that other adults make regarding their own lives – so long as they do not cause harm to others.
I do not care how you dress, what you wish to be called – so long as you do not expect me to remember.
But when you go beyond your own life and start directing others – we must be incredibly careful.
And all bets are off when we start talking about kids.
I am actually surprised by the recent fight over Drag Queen story hour.
In what world did the left think that was not going over like a lead balloon.
The most left wing nut of parents become burkean conservatives when it involves their children.
I would accept my children – whatever they might be. But the fact that I do not care if they are gay or trans or …. Does not mean I would jump into surgery or homones on a teenager.
The actual evidence is that nearly all gender dysphoria is about other mental health or other issues – address those.
Psaki was weeping crocodile tears over purported bullying in FL.
We do not need to teach 5 year olds about transgender to deal with bullying.
lots of people are bullied. I was bullied as a child – for being a geek.
That is still not a protected class.
Shortly before the 2020 election, Gov. Whitmer stood before cameras describing her narrow escape from being kidnapped and murdered by “domestic terrorists.”
Taylor Lorenz did it better
You know when Jonathan is willing to go this far it might be a tad worse than he is reporting. I have always enjoyed his commentary on the Sunday shows, he seems not invited to anymore. Over the last decade he has went from a Limousine Liberal not willing to get in the backseat to just a decent liberal. Terribly hard to find. Conservative’s like myself who are not Repubs and more Libertarian, anguish at how hard it must be for him to speak honestly. Every now and then I can see where he obviously doesn’t want to go there. He must be horrified at how far off the rails the Justice system is in the USA. His Gallup poll of 7% was a real eye opener. I thought it was in the teens. You don’t have a democracy below 50%. You can’t even call it a banana republic and need another fruit monkey’s like. It has become crystal clear you cannot also have a Democracy being run in a city with 96% voting for 1 side. Call Trump anything you want but the loon exposed the system and the bias and in turn there is hope the folks will rise up and take back their country. True The Vote is doing another interview today on how the Dems won. It is a fascinating expose and under cover journalism into the final take down of a President after many earlier attempts failed.
Turley is one of many high profile Real Liberals that have been red-pilled by the left.
What I do not understand is why so many of them are still trying to pretend there might be something worth saving on the modern left.
Or that there is even a pretense of partiy between the left and right.
There is no consequential “extreme right” – if the Whitmer Kidnapping ploters are the “extreme right” – they are a tiny fraction of a percent of the country.
Even groups like proud boys – if you actually look at what they stand for or how that act – are not all that extreme. Certainly not as extreme as the policies voted into effect by all or nearly all democratic congressmen.
I am not looking to defend Trump, or proud boys or republicans.
Just pointing out that they are NOT the problem today – there is virtually no extreme right of consequence.
I would further note – this is not historically unusual. It is rare for historical conflicts to be between extreme groups.
It is also rare for the truth to be in the center.
Historical conflicts are nearly always between two groups – one that is mostly right and one that is mostly wrong.
Ukraine and the west have made many mistakes that lead to this war. But there are incredibly few justifications for invading another country.
Ukraine is right and Putin is wrong. The situation is not black and white – but it is highly lopsided.
Today the “right” or even “extreme right” poses no threat to this nation – despite snowflake screams of the imminent demise of democracy.
I disagree with several of Trump’s policies – but even if Trump had gotten every single thing he wanted – the result would not have been a return to the 19th century or the collapse of democracy or even a return to 50 years ago.
It would for the most part just be STOPPING the rush of the left to ever more extremes.
The same is quite OBVIOUSLY not true of the left.
Democrats have controlled all of government for a mere 18 months and the reversal of fortunes that americans have faced in such a short time is beyond beleif. There are very few successes, and quite often those are just fixes to new failures.
And there are lots of failures.
We can debate the actual culpability of democratic policies for specific failures. Every bad thing that happens is not the responsibility of the ruling party. Covid was not Trumps responsibility and it is not now Biden’s – though how each dealt with it as well as what each promised and failed to deliver is. Trump fundimentally delivered on his promises regarding Covid – we got a vaccine in record time – and that is inarguably because of him. The failure of the vaccine to perform as hoped – is just like Covid itself – essentially an act of nature beyond our control. We have never controlled the flu with vaccination – why would we expect to control a disease 30 times more communicable ?
Regardless, my point is that even if every failue in the past 18 months is not the responsibility of democrats – the scale and frequency of failures inarguably is – it is a result of their incompetence, their shallow thinking, the extent to which they value the expertise of those with no “skin in the game”
John B. Say, I agree with most of this. Regarding the extreme right, I do not understand how the FBI has concluded that it is the greatest threat we face. I have seen no evidence of that whatsoever. It often does not stand for what it is accused of and in any event is utterly marginal and ineffectual.
Where I may disagree with you is about the conclusions you would draw from Ukraine being “right” and Putin “wrong”. Especially in foreign policy, these categories are often largely irrelevant. In my view Ukraine was imprudent in its dealings with Russia, and the US was imprudent in not insisting on a resolution of the dispute, even at the expense of ceding Crimea and conceding a great deal of autonomy to Luhansk and Donetsk and ruling out Ukraine joining NATO.
It was clear to the administration that Russia would invade if its concerns were not met, and it was also clear to them that an invasion would accomplish Russia’s objectives since, according to Milley, they expected Kyiv to fall within 2-3 days. They also did not expect sanctions to deter, and knew that China would support Russia.
So what were they doing, and why?
With respect to Ukraine.
I was trying to make a different point.
Historically we almost never have two concurrent, equal and polar opposite threats.
While we do nearly always have TWO concurrent sides.
Nearly always one is more right than the other.
There are many mistakes that lead to the current Ukrainian war – mistakes by Ukraine, and by the US and by NATO, as well as Russia.
But Russia invaded Ukraine. In doing so the issue of right and wrong, good and evil was settled.
The invasion was WRONG. That does not excuse all the mistakes by Ukraine and others that lead to war.
But the invasion dwarfs those mistakes.
I fully agree with you that this administration thoroughly botched the lead up to this invasion.
And at some point that should be looked into.
At the same time SO FAR, I have found this administration has successfully negotiated this war near perfectly todate.
They have done just enough and not too much – SO FAR.
The same is true in the US regarding politics.
I am libertarian – not republican.
There is much wrong with the republican party.
There is much wrong with the Right in the US.
But the most serious threat by far comes from the left right now.
You are not a conservative. You are a liberal. The mark is clear, indelible, and permanent. Deal with it.
That’s the exact reason this libertarian voted for Trump: To burn the entire corrupt system to the ground, both “sides “.
Perhaps that Prosecutor got shown the Door for his role in the Acquittals.
If he is resigning over some righteous indignation over something sleazy going on….he is a Day late and a Dollar short on his timing.
In time every Prosecutor that had a role in the Case should get their walking papers….for allowing or encouraging the FBI to do what they did during the “investigation”.
It almost sounds like they were running short on their Management by Objective Evaluation system where they needed some boxes checked to get their Quality Step Increase or Bonus.
@Ralph…
What makes you think he was pulled from the case… versus his decision to walk away?
It seems that in these types of situations… he’s walking away because he doesn’t believe he can try the case.
What exculpatory evidence got buried and what Brady violations happened?
Sorry to say… but with today’s FBI… you need to ask those types of questions.
Where’s my comment?
Dumb smokers got no reason.
Dumb smokers got no reason!
Dumb smokers got no reason to live!
They got little bitty eyes…
Little bitty feet…
Dumb little voices going beep beep beep!
Don’t want no dumb smokers!
Don’t want no dumb smokers round here!
The jury hung on the others. Not “hanged.” That’s for people, not verdicts.
On the one hand, I’m glad the FBI takes domestic political terrorism seriously. That said, the use of CIs as infiltrator-agitators egging on ambivalent actors to commit a federal terrorism crime has to stop. It usually suffices to let these actors know that the FBI is onto their activities and they have become persons-of-interest. The fantasy-plotting is thus put to bed.
It the FBI wants publicity for quashing plots, it can enumerate plots infiltrated and halted without naming names.
There is very little actual domestic terrorism. The FBI – like all government – exagerates to enhance its own power.
I will never again accept FBI allegations at face value.
The DOJ/FBI has cost themselves huge credibility; I look at the 1/6 allegations with deeper suspicion.
The FBI has been involved in myraids of examples of egregious misconduct my entire life – probably for their entire history.
There is almost nothing the FBI does that is actually necescary.
We do not need federal law enforcement for laws that already exist at the states
Kidnapping and murder have alwys been illegal.
Of course. I am dead serious: how can anyone intelligent claiming to be on the side of reason and compassion continue to support Democrats? Come on. We could compile a list of *thousands* of examples to the contrary at this point. The American Dem party has quite rapidly and astonishingly since Obama become the enemy of freedom. And that is all there is to it. It is becoming more and more impossible to defend. This probably should have happened a hundred years ago, when they were just as racist and devisive as now, but this is the 21st century. Stop being a stooge, because that is all that you are at this point, and very nearly EVERYBODY that just loves their children and wants a peaceful life sees it. You dems have lost the plot, you have lost the heart, you have lost the minds, and you are going down in ignominy. Period. Guns will be involved if necessary. Do not literally become the Nazi party of the 21st century, because boy, will you face some pushback.
Makes you wonder if the January 6th riots have anything to do with this same type of action by the FBI?
Wonder? Ha, ha. No, that is a foregone conclusion for anyone older than 30.
“Makes you wonder”
No need to wonder. This was brought up before. Judith Kelly.was one and wrote an article in Dec. There are a bunch of FBI people that have involvement in both operations.
“not the least of which is that the head of the FBI’s Detroit field office, Steven D’Antuono, was promoted to run the FBI field office in Washington, D.C., one week after the arrests in the Whitmer plot were announced.
That’s the same FBI office running the bureau’s Capitol investigation.
If the Whitmer trial proceeds, even without the caper’s top FBI masterminds, it would provide an illuminating backdrop to the first trials of January 6 defendants in 2022. Was Operation Cold Snap the launching pad for both the Whitmer plot and the Capitol protest?”
https://amgreatness.com/2021/12/22/was-the-fbis-whitmer-chicanery-a-warm-up-for-january-6/
James,
Have you noticed the MSM narrative seems to be in more disagreement with what Americans think or believe as of late? From Biden’s poll numbers, the fact more Americans are not buying his Putin Price Hike narrative, the Florida Parents Rights Bill, more Americans are no longer viewing 6JAN as the great threat the media portrays it to be, Americans cheering at 40,000ft, the results from the VA governors race as parents voted for a role in their children’s education.
Bill Maher keeps telling the Dems embracing far left wokeism is not working for the rest of their party. But the Dems and MSM do not seem to be listening.
Trust is fundimental.
The left has cried wolf FAR too many times.
No one beleives them – and in response instead of getting more rational they are doubling down on even more extreme.
I am honestly surprised at how long it has taken for most people to end up at odds with the left.
I expect a route at the polls in November. I expect it to be much worse than most expect – though the carnage will be somewhat mittigated because our elections are still lawless and untrustworthy. I do not understand why the left seems to think that people would consider mail in voting to be secure and trustworthy.
Regardless, the backlash that is coming is greater than the scale of any fraud that will not with certainty get caught. And all eyes will be watching.
But Republicans should not presume that the self destruction of the democratic party reflects the earned trust of a super majority of americans. The lessor of two evils is still evil.
I do not honestly consider most republicans evil – just wrong to a large enough extent to be harmful – though not in the same league as democrats today.
Regardless, the minorities that are shifting to voting republican, the working class shift to republican is NOT undying support, it is rejection of democrats.
Pick your poison.
Republicans are the stupid party; Democrats are the evil party.
Democrats and the mainstream news people (but I repeat myself) believe Twitter represents America even though half of America is excluded.