University of Michigan football head coach Jim Harbaugh is facing calls for his termination after he went public with his pro-life views. Harbaugh is a devout Catholic and said that “I believe in having the courage to let the unborn be born.” The response has been overwhelming and furious, but it is unlikely that Harbaugh (who just signed signed a 5-year, $36.7 million contract) will be canned. It is an interesting comparison to the successful campaign recently to force a NFL coach to withdraw his comments about Jan. 6th. Yet, if critics had their way, both coaches would be fired for holding dissenting views on such issues.
Harbaugh spoke at the Plymouth Right to Life dinner on Sunday and reportedly shared his own religious beliefs in favor of life.
“I love life. I believe in having a loving care and respect for life and death. My faith and my science are what drives these beliefs in me. [Quoting Jeremiah 1:5] ‘Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart. I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.’
…
There are many things one may hold to be immoral, but the government appropriately allows because of some greater good or personal or constitutional right.
Ultimately, I don’t believe that is the case with abortion. Yes, there are conflicts between the legitimate rights of the mother and the rights of the unborn child. One resolution might involve incredible hardship for the mother, family and society. Another results in the death of an unborn person…
In God’s plan, each unborn human truly has a future filled with potential, talent, dreams and love,” Harbaugh said. “I have living proof in my family, my children, and the many thousands that I’ve coached that the unborn are amazing gifts from God to make this world a better place. To me, the right choice is to have the courage to let the unborn be born.”
Harbaugh is used to calls for “unnecessary roughness” but nothing likely prepared him for what came next. The reaction was immediate and unhinged. Harbaugh was accused of being “full of deep seething hatred of women.” Despite his explanation of his deep-seated religious view in favor of life, various people accused him of “publicly expressing his distaste for women’s rights.”
Others called for Harbaugh to be fired for holding a pro-life view shared by millions of citizens; F**k Jim Harbaugh, may the University of Michigan 86 him before his contract goes full-term.” The liberal Palmer Report posted (with thousands of “likes”):
“No one who actively attempts to deny women their most basic rights should ever be allowed to hold a position of influence at a public university. That incudes (sic) University of Michigan football coach Jim Harbaugh and his anti-woman fundraising. He’s a public employee. Fire his a**.
It’s one thing to hold this personal view, if you can keep it separate from your actions. But to use your clout as a public employee go out and do fundraisers for groups that actively seek to deny women their most basic of rights, is a whole different ballgame.”
The ease with which many move to censorship is vividly on display in these statements. Some critics make a passing gesture toward free speech and then say that this is no longer merely a “personal view” because Harbaugh is well-known. Under that approach, any public comment could be viewed as “using your clout as a public employee.” Thus, you can (presumably) speak in favor of life if you are an unknown, but not if you are a known figure.
Of course, the same conditional right to free speech would not apply to Harbaugh if he were to offer pro-choice views or Coach Del Rio if he were to support the J6 Committee. Those views can not only be expressed but will receive widespread acclaim for a coach being a leader and mentor to others.
Fortunately, as a public university, Michigan is subject to the full weight of the First Amendment even if it wanted to tackle the contractual challenges to termination. Yet, the vile rhetoric directed at Harbaugh should, even in this age of rage, give some pause. To label all pro-life supporters as anti-women is unfounded and unfair. Millions of women support limiting or barring abortions. They are not self-haters or anti-feminists.
Harbaugh gave a heartfelt and honest speech about his faith and commitment to the pro-life cause. This is part of a debate that will now unfold in 50 states as voters decide where to draw the line on abortion services. It is a debate that should be passionate on both sides, but we should be able to disagree without such personal attacks or calls for terminations. Indeed, a state employee should be able to hold a pro-life view while holding a job at the University of Michigan.
Just admit the fact; the left is comprised of spoiled brat bullies who will do whatever their unhinged rage directs them to do in order to get their way. I’ve seen this in all toddlers, especially the spoiled ones.
Emotional Childishness Is A Societal Cancer
Kudos to Coach Harbaugh. About as reasoned a defense of life as there is. And that is difficult to say coming from a Purdue supporter such as me.
A new Motto for the state California “Come to Sunny California, enjoy the beach and we’ll kill your baby for no reason at all”. I feel certain that this will reverse the exodus from the state.
To be fair planned parenthood (also planned parent/hood for granny in several Democrat districts) is not one-child, but rather selective-child, a wicked solution delegated by the State through licensed agents and sanctioned by the established Pro-Choice ethical religion legalized nationwide under the Twilight Amendment partially overturned since the Dodd ruling. #RoesRegrets #RuthsRemorse #CecileTheCannibal #GosnellTheRipper #SangersDiversityDogma #ObamasBurden #PelosisChoice
Hairball can be fired for any number of reasons.
It would trigger the payout of the rest of his contract.
Did anyone consider that he’s doing this as a way to get out of his contract because he can’t beat Ohio State and is a laughing stock of a coach?
Yes, he has the first amendment rights to say what he wants.
Yes, the school can fire him and pay him out.
Yes, the students of Meechigan [sic] can be irate, boycott their pathetic football team, riot, whatever. (If they riot, they can be tossed in jail, fined, and expelled. Its a free country, but actions have consequences)
But the real question… who cares?
Sorry Turley. But it must be a slow news day when this becomes a hot topic.
-G
PS. Can anyone guess where I went to school? 😉
If Harbough can be fired for his political views, they same goes for Pro athletes that spout all sorts of political misinformation. Colin Kaepernich comes to mind. This is a great way to get rid of excess baggage on the roster.
@iowan2,
I said he could be for anything… but that means the university has to pay out the end of his contract.
A lot of it depends on what’s in his contract.
To be fair… the University would be in hot water if they said it was due to his voicing his opinions but they can say that they lost faith in him based on his track record as coach.
(Hairball sucks but as an OSU alumn I have mixed emotions… love beating Michigan but most of the time its too easy.)
W.R.T Colin Kaepernich… he wasn’t fired. His option wasn’t picked up. He became a free agent, no one wanted his baggage. He then sued the NFL… they settled. He tried to get back in… but couldn’t compete. Hopefully end of story… but watch him try his hand at coaching for some junior college.
-G
Used to be you could state your opinion or stance on an issue, people would nod, respect your opinion, and leave it at that. Some may disagree with your opinion, but they still respected it (and by extension, the 1stA).
Now, in this day and age of rage, the mob wants you fired.
Surprised they have not called for football to be canceled.
@Upstate Farmer…
I’m going to age myself… but that’s ok. 😉
Think of a bell curve.
On one side you have the rabid right, and on the other… the rabid left.
In the middle, you have the centrists.
The area under the curve represents the population of the US.
Back in the 80’s… if you made that comment… like you said… most would say ‘whatever… ‘ and move on. Whether they agreed with you or not.
It was only at the fringe that you would find someone so ‘passionate’ about the topic… any topic… that they would get in your face.
As we move forward in time… more and more area under the curve has been taken over by those fringe groups.
Instead of 3 standard deviations of the population being normal… its now less than one standard deviation would be normal.
You could call this the polarization of this country.
You could also probably blame the media. Really cable TV. (But not for the reasons you may think.)
What we saw was the creation of the 24/7 news channel. Rather than repeat the news stories… they added analysts and ‘anchors’ who would espouse their opinions.
CNN begat Fox… so now you had competing stations which became polarized. This lead to the echo chambers.
Fast forward to AOL, and Facebook, where you have online social media groups where again, people can choose which to join and which to ignore.
Again echo chambers.
Today our children are being taught in echo chambers. The liberal teachers we had back in the 70’s and 80’s are now replaced with radical liberals who are emboldened by their echo chambers…
So the real question.. how do the centrists fight back and push back the radicals?
-G
Ian Michael Gumby,
Great post.
To address your real question, I would say first, get the woke indoctrination out of public schools.
Or and more likely, more school choice of private school, or homeschooling (there has been a real increase in homeschooling or micro-pods) with heavy emphasis on education, STEM, critical thinking, civics, history in context. And a real home economics class that teaches real life economics! We spent two weeks learning to sew, and two days on how to manage a checkbook!
Open more colleges like University of Austin aka AUTX, where they focus on education and not wokeism.
Businesses tell their employees they are there to do a job. Leave their activism at the door. Saw a poll a few weeks ago, showing some believe it is their right to bring their activism to their work place.
Likely create two different societies in the US.
Might not be a bad thing.
Coach Harbaugh – as a private citizen at a private event – has a First Amendment right to express his beliefs.
If Coach Harbaugh – as a coach – imposes his views onto his players, that should be illegal. A public university is a “government entity”. In that capacity, Coach Harbaugh is a “government official” and legally restrained by the First Amendment. His players and fans have a right to be free from government imposed religious views.
The Pro-Choice ethical religion, including: feminine and masculine chauvinistic ideologies, political congruence (“=”), diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry), witch hunts and warlock trials, human rites (i.e. wicked solution a.k.a. planned parenthood a.k.a. planned parent/hood), Mengele mandates, etc.
Coaches are supposed to teach their Players….and be Role Models for them…..is that what perturbs you and other Leftists….that they are teaching good values and. not indoctrinating our youth in CRT, Abortion on Demand, and the Transgenderism rubbish?
RE:”If Coach Harbaugh – as a coach – imposes his views onto his players, that should be illegal…” Even if he expressed a point of view on campus,in casual conversation, he would not be IMPOSING it upon his players unless he were insinuating same in the process of carry out the duties mandated by the terms of his employment. A faculty teaching Political Science, for example, who steadfastly supported the writings of Marx, Lenin, and Engels, IS imposing a view, yet would be given the protection of academic freedom, notwithstanding the likelihood that members of the student body being addressed might be intimidated and unwilling to challenge the position taken for the sake of a grade in that course. We know that ‘the tell them what they want to hear, get on and get out’, is the game which must be played. Challenging faculty, particularly where the neophyte lacks a knowledge base sufficient enough to present a cogent rebuttal, can be suicidal and is not for the upwardly mobile who desire to succeed.
His players and fans have a right to be free from government imposed religious views.
He has a right to express his religious views, but not impose them. So get back to us when he benches a player for defying his religious views.
If Coach Harbaugh – as a coach – imposes his views onto his players, that should be illegal
Giving a speech to a group that has no association with the college, or the Athletic dept. proves that hypothetical as specious
Is there a way to pin a comment? That would serve as an educational reminder of stupidity in Democrat talking points
Cuin Court says:July 20, 2022 at 7:57 AM
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing …..
And there you have it. Killing is perfectly fine. So, extrapolating from the above Illuminati’s insight:
In most cases, shooting an Hispanic isn’t shooting….
in most cases, stabbing an Asian isn’t stabbing…
In most cases, lynching a black ins’t lynching…
In most cases, raping a woman isn’t raping…..
Cuin Court must have a tenured faculty position at the Harvard Law School. Where else would one find such foxtrot thinking, other than a Democrat Member of Congress?
Fu|< Joe Biden
murder (n.)
“unlawful killing of another human being by a person of sound mind with premeditated malice,” c. 1300, murdre, earlier morþer, from Old English morðor (plural morþras) “secret killing of a person, unlawful killing,”
Murder was legalized under the Twilight Amendment (partially overturned since the Dodd ruling) and establishment of the Pro-Choice ethical (i.e. relativistic, selective) – another compromise – religion, which denies women and men’s dignity and agency, reduces human life to negotiable commodities, and, after the time of viability, forces women to remain pregnant until the child can be extracted for visual effect, or, in some liberal jurisdictions, a life aborted, profitable parts cannibalized (i.e. redistributive change), and the carbon waste sequestered.
Apparently, there is mystery in sex and conception. Keep women, and nine year-old girls, affordable, available, and taxable. Also, “heros” that elect to abort unarmed women in prone positions. Then there is the collateral damage from immigration reform in lieu of emigration reform at both ends of the bridge and throughout. Human rites shall be performed for social, redistributive, clinical, political, and fair weather (e.g. climate stasis) causes.
Hispanic a.k.a. People of Brown a.k.a. LatinX (a mutant classification).
[Some] People of Asia a.k.a. People of Yellow
People of Black (i.e. color bloc or racist classification)
Rape… rape-rape of an “entity” that identifies as a woman a.k.a. female sex correlated with feminine gender (e.g. sexual orientation).
George “fentanyl” Floyd syndrome, a progressive condition, is a first-order forcing of thousands of excessive deaths annually.
Diversity [dogma] (i.e. color judgment, class-based bigotry), including: racism, sexism, ageism, classicism, etc. breeds adversity.
The Left and Democrats are right. It’s time to fire pall of those who are liars. The liars (yes pretty much most Democrats, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer et al and the Press) said ..
1) LIE: Hunters laptop was Russian disinformation … TRUTH: it was Hunter’s laptop.
2) LIE: Dem leaders were competent adults … TRUTH: the Biden administration is full of inept ideologues who have no experience outside of govt while Trump administration was extremely competent with a vast array of experience.
3) LIE: US Gas prices have doubled because of Putin ….TRUTH: it began with Joe Bs punitive energy policy and he continues to beg from fascists and dictators for oil we have.
4) LIE: C. Steele wrote factual information ….TRUTH: it was lies paid for by HRC and the DNC.
5) LIE: Inflation is transitory …TRUTH: it was caused by Dem policies the continue to pursue
6) LIE: Biden border is secure …. TRUTH: Biden admin policies have encourage 3MM Illegal immigrants to cross ilkegally.
7) LIE: Biden administration Afghanistan withdrawal/ Taliban takeover was competently handled … TRUTH: They created a debacle killing 12 servicemen and leaving billions of dollars of American weapons in the hands of terrorists.
8) LIE: Defunding the police would be safer … TRUTH: Dem run cities are exploding with crime and murder.
9) LIE: it would take 2 weeks to flatten the curve … TRUTH: there was 70 weeks of shutdowns that didn’t flatten any curve.
10) LIE: Covid came from nature …TRUTH: it was from a lab in China
11) LIE: Kavanaugh assaulted someone … TRUTH: his allies swore it was not true under penalty perjury while her’s refused to do so.
12) LIE: Covington Catholic boys were bigots … TRUTH: they behaved kindly while a 70 year old man verbally assaulted them.
And the biggest lie of all by CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT, AP, CBS, NBC, ABC, ETC … ….. Joe Biden was competent, mentally capable of being president (LIE).
Why does a disciple like you try to pretend you are educated, much less “highly” educated? What you post proves you are just another starry-eyed disciple.
1. No one, other than those who turn in to hear Fox deflect away from Trump’s crimes, cares about “Hunter’s Laptop”. No crime was committed. Why do they harp about about it?
2. Trump himself is the most-incompetent person ever to occupy our White House. He had a record-breaking number of departures of key members of his cabinet because he is virtually clueless. has no leadership skills and constantly lies. Consistent with his pattern of failed businesses, he failed miserably pretenting to be POTUS: took the thriving economy inherited from Obama and turned it into the worst recession since the Great Depression; schools, factories, businesses closed down for about 2 years; kids are still behind in their school work, all because the pandemic was made worse by his constant lying that it was “just one person coming from China”; “15 cases will soon be 0 cases”; “it’ll go away when the weather warms up”‘ “you’ll be back in church by Easter”; “Hydroxychloroquine is a cure”; all lies. He alienated US allies, trash-talked the EU and NATO and praised Putin, a murderous dictator, something literally unthinkable;
3. Gas prices are high because INTERNATIONAL demand is high due to Putin invading Ukraine and international sanctions. Putin was emboldened to invade Ukraine because of Trump’s weakness and deference to him because Russia helped him cheat to get into office. Putin sees what everyone, except Trump fans see: a weak man with a huge ego who is vulnerable because he feels he must “win” at any cost. Putin thought that Trump had so alienated our NATO allies by insulting NATO and calling some of our key allies, like Germany, “deadbeats” that he wouldn’t receive much push-back when he invaded Ukraine. Biden has turned that siuation around and has united our NATO allies so successfully that Finland and Sweden have petitioned to join, which is something Trump could never have done. Trump’s mishandling of the pandemic is one cause of high gas prices: when the country was forced to mostly shut down for 2 years due to Trump’s incompetence and lying, school buses quit running, people who were able to work from home stopped commuting, people couldn’t go inside restaurants to eat, and people stopped taking vacations, all of which resulted in a glut of oil and artificially depressed the price of crude oil. Some refineries went off-line and didn’t go back on line. Now that COVID is under control and unemployment, which was 10% under Trump, is now less than 3.5%, demand is up, but production lags behind. All of this is Trump’s fault. Specifically name for me, if you can, Biden’s “punitive” policies..
4. NO ONE cares about the “Steele Dossier”, and nothing in it was ever proven false. The Steele Dossier was not what got the Mueller investigation started.
5. Inflation will be transitory: it always has been before, and it always follows a rapid economic recovery. Prices DO stabilize. We wouldn’t be in this situation if our economy hadn’t taken such a hit from Trump’s incompetence.
6. There have been problems at the US border for decades, and this is not Biden’s fault. At least Biden didn’t kidnap children from their parents to punish them for seeking asylum. There wouldn’t be as big a problem with migrants if Republican-owned big businesses didn’t hire them and create jobs for them, which helps the bottom line. But, ReTrumplicans like to harp about the border. Erecting a fence isn’t the answer–comprehensive bipartisan immigration laws are the answer, but ReTrumplicans won’t cooperate because they use the situation to score political points for disciples like you. Look around: go to any major hotel chain, restaurant, housekeeping and nanny service and landscapers: the illegals are everywhere, and so long as there are jobs, they’ll keep coming.
7. The withdrawal from Afghanistan is totally Trump’s fault: he drew down our troops from 14,000 to 2,500 AND turned loose 5,000 Taliban prisoners without first consulting with our Afghan allies. Trump failed to negotiate for an air or land base. Projections were that our Afghan allies could hold the fort for at least 6 months before the Taliban took over, but our allies lost hope and just gave up. Trump should have gotten everyone out before drawing down our troops and turning loose 5,000 Taliban. This is just another mess handed to Biden that Trumpsters try to blame him for, but the root cause is Trump.
8. NO ONE is “defunding the police”. Crime is up in red states: like Texas, for example, where the Uvalde school shooting took place and Indiana, where the mall shooting took place. The root cause of crime isn’t “defunding the police”.
9. I’m not clear on what you’re talking about.
10. The source of COVID has NOT been proven. Just because Trump tried to deflect blame for his incompetent handling of COVID by blaming the Chinese, doesn’t make it so. The source is under investigation.
11. Dr. Blasey-Ford testified that Kavanaigh assaulted her. There were over 25 witnesses prepared to testify consistently with Dr. Ford’s testimony about Kavanaugh’s character, but Republicans shut them down and wouldn’t let them speak.
12. NO ONE cares anymore about that smirking little turd approaching the Native American at the forced “pro-life” rally he was required to attend, while wearing his MAGA hat.
Biden has already done more for America in less than 2 years than Trump ever could. Trump still holds the record for low approval ratings. Biden turned around the pandemic and got it under control. Businesses, schools, factories and restaurants are open again. Unemployment went from 10% to less than 3.5%. Biden has brought down the national debt multiple trillions–the debt was caused by Trump’s tax cuts that mostly benefitted the wealthy, which drove the national debt to a new record high. Interest on Trump’s national debt alone contributes to inflation. Biden got a massive infrastructure package passed that will create thousands of good-paying jobs, something Trump could never do. Biden set a record for economic growth. These are facts. Biden is a gentle soul, not a bombastic blowhard like Trump. Disciples like you mistake bluster for strength, but you are mistaken. Recall the presidential debates. According to polls, Biden won every one. He has generated respect for America abroad, and has united NATO allies, something an attention-seeking narcissist like Trump would be incapable of. Trump had to cheat to get into office, and he continues to lie about losing the election, despite all proof to the contrary. Everything is always all abut him, him, him, and his media enablers are the ones who lie. America is still trying to recover from Trump and the horrible politicians he put onto our SCOTUS who have done the unthinkable: no SCOTUS in our history ever took away a right found to exist under our Constitution. The overwhelming majority of Americans are outraged over the Dobbs decision. Trump appointed these judges for political reasons–because he was told it would curry favor with Evangelicals. Just another bad decision that is dividing Americans against one another.
When everything you write seems as if you’re stealing headlines from The Babylon Bee…
Bwahahahahahaha!
The liberal-left is constrained by its own limited rhetoric and ideology, and cannot think beyond those limitations. To expect a liberal to be able to parse, reason, debate, or even argue an issue would be asking too much of today’s lib-left robots. They substitute self-righteous assertions for discussion. Once all avenues of communication are cut off, what happens next will be very ugly.
There you have it from the Left: The DICTATORSHIP of THOUGHT. We’re almost at the point of re-naming cities. This is a very dark tunnel with no light on the other side.
While we are re-naming cities, let us consider the city named New York. It was named after James, Duke of York who, with his brother King Charles II and others, founded the Royal African Company the business of which was slavery. It was they who introduced slaves and slavery into the Western Hemisphere. Therefore, the city and state of New York must be renamed as must any public entity with “Newq York” in its name.
While we are in the re-naming mode, Elihu Yale, while president of the British Ease India Company, engaged in the slave trade therefore Yale University must be re-named.
Maybe, when you’re a public figure, don’t announce your beliefs in a public forum.
Maybe when you aren’t a believer in the First Amendment you shouldn’t comment on a site that favors it.
Mary:
Yeah, self-censoring and denial of conscience is a good thing? Try again.
“Millions of women support limiting or barring abortions. They are not self-haters or anti-feminists.“
*****************
They aren’t self-haters but they are clearly anti-feminists since abortion on demand is a central tenet of current feminism. And that’s okay since most people aren’t modern feminists either.
In a free society freedom of speech and conscience don’t apply to just those who cannot be heard and speech that does not upset and offend is usually banal and not worthy of an audience.
Bottom line is don’t like what I have to say? That’s fine. Change the channel or hit Back on your browser because that’s the only remedy you have.
RE:”University of Michigan football head coach Jim Harbaugh is facing calls for his termination…” It’s time for the electorate to demand that discrimination on the basis of political thought and belief, expressed, written, or otherwise, be declared unlawful under the provisions of the Civil Rights Act. This Orwellian Cancel Culture Gestapo must be rendered impotent once and for all.
I suspect that if he has a choice of job or belief, he would choose belief. Not that he should be put to choice.
To label all pro-life supporters as anti-women is unfounded and unfair
Yes. The ongoing documentation that, Democrats can only lie to justify their agenda. The facts are always against their desired agenda. So debate must be silenced.
That sounds about right. One could easily posit that anyone who argues for unfettered male participation in female-only athletics is “anti-woman”. The same for anyone who is in favor of placing male prisoners in female-only prisons. Some have forgotten that there were valid reasons for having female-only spaces. Reasons such as safety from harm, privacy, fair competition, etc.
Who is calling for THOSE advocates to lose their positions due to being “anti-women”?
I am not.
The left does not countenance opposing views. To the liberals any view point they disagree with is a danger to democracy, a threat to women, dangerous to minorities or trying to erase trans people. That is why they constantly NEED to end the filibuster, get rid of the electoral college, pack the Supreme Court and add new states…all as they claim Republicans are busting norms. It seems as if they never read the parable of the boy who cried wolf. Or is it the binary birthing person that they cried wolf. It is laughable.
In other news, AOC and Ilhan Omar identify as arrested people. Check out the video of these two phonies doing a fake perp walk with their arms behind their backs as if cuffed only to stupidly then wave to the crowd.
Haven’t read the whole article yet.
The first thing that came to my mind, what’s fun of have F U money, unless you get to use it. Once you get money, you realize it has nothing to do with what you are able to buy, but rather the power it allows you to wield.
One unintended consequence of the attack by the left on Harbaugh is that we can all now read these wonderful excerpts from his speech. Knee jerk hate attacking such a caring and thoughtful defense of life really shows that the left has lost the abortion debate on the merits and is only left with personal attacks that are aptly described by Professor Turley as ‘unhinged’.
I would guess that 50% of the aborted babies are women, so this shows his strong support to keep those women alive!
Anecdotal evidence suggests females are chosen for abortion at a higher rated than males.
So-called progressives are bigots, the dictionary definition.
Words other than “angry” come to mind as well. Vicious. Nasty. Hateful. Intolerant. Evil. Depraved.
Can you imagine how dead inside these people are who relish killing babies?
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing an embryo. An embryo is not a baby, it’s not even a fetus. But the man coach has his right to his opinion, as do you, as do I.
Cuin, taking your argument as fact (which is a stretch) does it then mean that you disagree with the Democrats wanting more than Roe, wanting abortion up to the 9th month as in CA, NY, IL and other states?
Taking your argument’s ending line as fact, does that mean that we shouldn’t hear about women’s point of view when it comes to military action since it is mostly men on the front lines?
Cuin:
“Baby,” “embryo” and “fetus” are irrelevant terms, an abortion is the killing of human life as any biologist will tell you. The question is when do we countenance the killing of human life out of concern for the consequences to the mother. And what level of impact of those consequences on the life and well-being of the mother rise to the level of permitting that choice are the questions that matter.
These are complex situations, I agree. And honestly, I’m not sure when or if abortion should be legal. But renaming something isn’t adequate to resolve us of understanding the significant implications of our actions. For example, is an killing an infant not killing a person/toddler/teenager/elder? Is killing a guilty murderer not killing a person?
Just because we name it an embryo or a baby the are the same in their fundamental humanness. An embryo whether embryo, baby or 90 year old have identitcal genetic makeup predetermining all characteristics of their existence. An embryo/fetus/baby/teenager is clearly not a woman’s body. When we kill something just determines whether we believe that that embryo/fetus/baby/teenager/90 year old is innocent and worthy of protection/life-liberty-pursuit of happiness OR if it is just disposable garbage.
hes:
Well not exactly “disposable garbage” especially when the life of the mother is at stake, but to answer your questions:
Yes, killing any human life is equally heinous in moral terms in all but the most extreme circumstances..
No, Killing human life is not equally heinous in legal terms as your examples succinctly point out.
We are talking about legal terms here and I’ve set forth the issues.
Mespo – Can you acknowledge there have been a lot of canards about “life of the mother at stake”. For example, Democrats and pro-abortion advocates were disseminating a lie that ectopic pregnancies would be illegal. That’s a prima facie lie. As for legal terms, a convicted felon is not the same as an legal citizen. Killing one (and I am occasionnally in favor of the death penalty) is still killing a human. I can acknowledge that. But one is innocent and one is guilty. Not a lot of guilty embryos out there in my mind.
hesw:
Sure most of them are electives with a “life of the mother” or “mental health of the mother” wrapping all over them.
“I’ve set forth the issues.”
No you haven’t.
The issue is *not* “life” or the taking of life.
The issue is individual rights, what constitutes the violation of a right, and when government can use its police powers to curtail those rights.
Generality: He was in my space, so I shot and killed him.
Sam writes: “The issue is individual rights,”
That was my individual space reflecting my individual rights.
Abortion: He was in my space, so I shot and killed him.
That was my individual space reflecting my individual rights.
Sam:
“The issue is *not* “life” or the taking of life. The issue is individual rights, what constitutes the violation of a right, and when government can use its police powers to curtail those rights.”
**************************
“… endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness” Seems “life” comes first in “those rights.”
Oh and that’s from one of our founding documents. It’s called the Declaration of Independence. Obviously, you haven’t gotten to that chapter in the Beijing School of Propaganda.
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing …..
And there you have it. Killing is perfectly fine. So, extrapolating from the above Illuminati’s insight:
In most cases, shooting an Hispanic isn’t shooting….
in most cases, stabbing an Asian isn’t stabbing…
In most cases, lynching a black ins’t lynching…
In most cases, raping a woman isn’t raping…..
Cuin Court must have a tenured faculty position at the Harvard Law School. Where else would one find such foxtrot thinking, other than a Democrat Member of Congress?
Fu|< Joe Biden
Yours are just a bunch of words used to rationalize killing a developing human life. Your word salad is necessary, of course, to construct a lame attempt at straddling the irreconcilable positions between condoning the killing of innocent human life and maintaining some sort of moral conscious.
Democrats know when life begins. But because killing preborn human lives is an important Democrat value, they lie and pretend life begins at some arbitrary future date in the development process rather than when the fertilized egg attaches itself to the uterus. That lie that life begins at “viability”; or when a heartbeat is detected; or when the developing human can “feel pain”, etc. is all necessary to try to straddle the irreconcilable positions noted above.
But it’s still killing a developing innocent human life.
You know it. I know it. We all know it.
Anonymous:
“Yours are just a bunch of words used to rationalize killing a developing human life.
(…)
But it’s still killing a developing innocent human life.
You know it. I know it. We all know it.”
*********************************
Let’s get your take on three scenarios given your position:
A. Betty is four and a half months pregnant and has an ultrasound. It is revealed she is carrying a male. She wants a female. Should Betty be morally permitted to obtain an abortion? Should she be legally permitted to do so?
B. Betty is a college freshman and one night she’s at a Women’s Rights Rally (fraternity party is so passe’) and has a manhattan or three at the mixer thereafter. Bobby thinks Betty is hot and eventually consensual sexual relations occur that evening. Betty is working her way through school. Betty does not want the pregnancy and is deciding whether to abort or not. Bobby is long gone – probably to the fraternity party scene. Should Betty be morally permitted to obtain an abortion? Should she be legally permitted to do so?
C. Betty suffers from a rare genetic disease which makes her 90% likely to die if she delivers a child. Walking home one night Betty is raped and impregnated. Should Betty be morally permitted to obtain an abortion? Should she be legally permitted to do so?
Does your “rule” apply equally in all these real-life situations? I think your answers will be useful for all of us.
I’m not advocating a rule.. I’m stating a fact. That life begins when the fertilized egg implants to the uterus and begins the process of cell division that creates a new human life (in most cases).
That does not mean I believe there should be an absolute prohibition on all abortions in all cases. Just as there are perfectly moral and justifiable reasons why homicide is lawful in some cases (in self defense, for example), there can be very rare instances when killing a developing human life can be justified on both moral and legal grounds.
My main gripe is with the persistent, endless dishonesty from the abortion zealots. Stop pretending a developing human life is not being killed. Stop pretending the mother’s life is the only one that matters. Stop using euphemisms like “reproductive freedom” or “women’s health” or the most grotesque of all that is it merely a “choice” to justify killing a developing human life – as if the decision to kill a developing human life is morally equivalent to not killing it.
Start with the truth: abortion is exterminating a developing human life. Then make an honest argument why killing the innocent developing life is justifiable.
Anonymous:
Then you and I agree on the fundamentals. I thought so. Just trying to flesh out the deatils. Kudos.
“Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing an embryo. “
Then we must assume:
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing an infant.
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing a child.
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing an adolescent.
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing an adult
Having an abortion, in most cases, isn’t killing a baby, it’s killing a senior.
Lefties really are angry people.
Soulless, too.