One of the most glaring contradictions in the Mar-a-Lago controversy has been the Justice Department demanding absolute and unwavering secrecy over the FBI raid while officials have been leaking details on the raid. The latest example is a report in the New York Times that the Justice Department recovered more than 300 documents with classified markings, citing multiple sources connected to the investigation. Most judges would be a tad annoyed by the contradiction as the government continues to frame the public debate with its own selective leaks while using secrecy to bar other disclosures. That includes sections of the affidavit that detail the communications with the Trump team, information that is already known to the target.
Someone is clearly lying. The Trump Team said that it was cooperating and would have given access to the government if it raised further objections. The Justice Department has clearly indicated that time was of the essence to justify this unprecedented raid on the home of a former president. Yet, Attorney General Merrick Garland reportedly waited for weeks to sign off on the application for a warrant and the FBI then waited a weekend to execute that warrant. It is difficult to understand why such communications could not be released in a redacted affidavit while protecting more sensitive sections.
Previous leaks discussed various undisclosed facts that are presumably part of the affidavit, including the government was seeking vital nuclear weapons materials and then how video camera evidence outside of the Mar-a-Lago storage area led the FBI to act without delay.
The latest leak to to the New York Times offers details on what was gathered from Mar-a-Lago. Officials state that they collected more than 150 documents marked as classified in January with another 150 being gathered in June and then in the August raid.
Washington has long floated on a sea of leaks but this is notable in that the government is opposing even modest disclosures from the court while it has steadily leaked details to its own advantage. It undermines the credibility of the government and raises questions of the motivations behind the absolute secrecy claims.
The level of detail is extraordinary including the very account of past dealings that some of us have argued could be released in the affidavit as well as the contents of the boxes. The leaks describe the June meeting in Mar-a-Lago and reveals that Jay Bratt, the chief of the counterespionage section of the national security division of the Justice Department, met with two of Mr. Trump’s lawyers, Evan Corcoran and Christina Bobb. He then went through the boxes himself to identify classified material. (The Trump motion this week also described this meeting with Bratt, which again raises why the same information in the affidavit cannot be disclosed).
This information is likely contained in the affidavit, which the Justice Department claimed could not be released without harming its investigation and endangering national security.
The New York Times story then affirms the position of the Justice Department as proven by the leaks.
“[T}he extent to which such a large number of highly sensitive documents remained at Mar-a-Lago for months, even as the department sought the return of all material that should have been left in government custody when Mr. Trump left office, suggested to officials that the former president or his aides had been cavalier in handling it, not fully forthcoming with investigators, or both.”
It is litigation by leak where the government prevents others (including the target) from seeing key representations made to the court while releasing selective facts to its own advantage. It shows utter contempt for the court and the public. The question is whether the court will take note of this series of leaks. Most judges do not like to be played so openly and publicly by government officials. Moreover, the leaks should push Garland to reverse course as suggested in a recent column and order substantive disclosures in the affidavit in light of the government’s prior leaks.
This appears to be a gigantic diversion to take the focus off the failures and disasters of this administration. The southern border crisis that is fully endorsed by this President, attacks on parents and education, Afghanistan disaster, increased violence and rising inflation. There are too many to name.
Expect more bizarre events as we near the election. We are witnessing a full attack of the United States with tactics of subversion and psychological operations.
I dare Turley or anyone reading this here to watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRVFKqB8weU
Trump is definitely going to be indicted by the DOJ.
How many times have these talking heads been wrong on anything Trump? Virtually always. That doesn’t say a lot for the poster of the video.
“Mr. Trump went through the boxes himself”
Whoa, that’s direct proof of intent. That’s not only bad, it’s really bad for Trump. Not only is his lawyer in trouble so is Trump. Making a false report to the FBI? Mmmm…another felony charge? Oops. No wonder the majority of the best lawyers in the country won’t touch Trump at all.
@Svelaz,
No, its not.
First, do we have an inventory of documents?
No, we don’t. The FBI does however.
Second… The FBI claims that X number of docs were classified.
But since we don’t know what documents they took, we don’t know that to be true. Trump did actually order many docs to be declassified prior to leaving office. Those documents have not yet been declassified by the DoJ/FBI. (These were surrounding Crossfire Hurricane and the abuse against Trump and his campaign)
The FBI took anything and everything. The warrant allowed them to do this.
This included Trump’s Passports (current and prior ones).
Trump’s lawyers requested a special master because of the overreach. The DoJ ignored the request.
Then here’s the kicker. Trump has executive privilege. Biden claimed otherwise and this led to the FARA abuse against Trump.
Based on what Biden did… the next POTUS can seize anything and everything from Biden. Including his hidden congressional records.
It doesn’t look good.
But its more against the FBI/DOJ than it is against Trump.
-G
Trump is no longer President and cannot exert executive privilege, especially against the Executive Branch. SCOTUS addressed this in Nixon v. Administrator of General Services. And any documents that he claims are covered by EP are necessarily government documents / presidential records and by law belong in NARA’s possession.
Biden’s congressional records preexist his presidency and clearly aren’t presidential records.
*assert, not exert
“ First, do we have an inventory of documents?
No, we don’t. The FBI does however.
Second… The FBI claims that X number of docs were classified.
But since we don’t know what documents they took, we don’t know that to be true.”
Yes we do. Because the archives knows which boxes are missing. They are all specifically numbered and they were noted in the receipt given to Trump. The FBI knows because they got the information from the archives which has a record of what was taken from the White House.
The FBI KNOWS which documents were classified because back in January they went to MAL to investigate and found classified material that did not belong to Trump. We KNOW it’s true because the search warrant included KNOWN classified documents to still be in Trump’s possession.
“ Trump did actually order many docs to be declassified prior to leaving office. Those documents have not yet been declassified by the DoJ/FBI.”
Huh? If Trump declassified them why would the DOJ/FBI need to declassify them? There is no record of a trump order to declassify documents. His own lawyers didn’t mention documents being declassified.
This is why Trump’s claims are pure BS. If you end up making up this kind of nonsense it’s pretty certain that trump illegally kept these documents and refused to turn them over. That’s enough to prove intent.
Trump can’t claim executive privilege because he’s not president anymore. Biden CAN reclassify all those documents just as easily as Trump declassified them based on Trump’s own stupid rationale. Either way Trump is in serious trouble.
Svelaz… Gold Medal for Spinning… Bravo……….
Dear ‘Anonymous..’ yes of course.. this is plan x when all the other plans failed… Impeachments, Hearings, now Raids to take papers packed up by the GSA of docs already declassified by a sitting President and left there in their place by the FBI when they visited to remove things the PRA wanted…. . btw, indictments do not mean anyone of guilty of anything,,,,,
The GSA didn’t pack up documents, and it’s not their job to decide what is to be packed or not. Trump was supposed to contact the NARA and turn over papers to them, which is what Obama and his predecessors did. Trump claims that all of the documents were his property–lie!. These papers belong to the United States of America, and Trump knows that. Trump didn’t “declassify”anything because there wasn’t any “standing order” according to his national security advisor, John Bolton. No such document has been produced because that’s just another lie. But, even if these documents were “declassified”, it is still a crime to possess them. And, it is blasphemy against the United States of America to refer to your hero as a “president”. Having cheated his way into office, having decimated our economy, botched the pandemic, started a riot because he’s not man enough to admit he lost, and now, stealing TS/SCI documents, lying about them, and profiting off of the crisis he created by his selfishness and ignorance, he doesn’t deserve the title. This latest caper is just more proof of the destructive nature of his malignant narcissism, his willingness to lie and utter lack of regard for the welfare of the United States.
To you, our White, moral scold,….who you gonna call? call ghostbusters!
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/23/1118817023/new-york-times-race-employees-job-review-union
People of color at ‘New York Times’ get lower ratings in job reviews, union says
“Being Hispanic reduced the odds of receiving a high score by about 60%, and being Black cut the chances of high scores by nearly 50%,” says the report from the NewsGuild chapter representing employees of The New York Times. The study, shared before its release with NPR News, reflects data stretching back to 2018, when a new rating system was put in place.
RE: “People of color at ‘New York Times’ get lower ratings in job reviews, union says…” So much for the NYT!!
“The GSA didn’t pack up documents,”
Of course they did, That happens EVERYTIME there is a change of administrations.
“and it’s not their job to decide what is to be packed or not.”
False and irrelevant.
If you want to accuse Trump of a crime you must prove Trump committed the act you think is a crime.
“Trump was supposed to contact the NARA and turn over papers to them”
Nope. Please read the PRA, as well as ABJ’s decision.
“which is what Obama and his predecessors did.”
Obviously false, which is precisely why JW sued NARA to force them to retrieve presidential documents from Clinton
“Trump claims that all of the documents were his property–lie!.”
Nope – the decision – as with all executive decisions is a power of the president.
“These papers belong to the United States of America”
Nope.
“and Trump knows that.”
Nope.
“Trump didn’t “declassify”anything because there wasn’t any “standing order” according to his national security advisor, John Bolton.”
Bolton can say what he pleases. The fact is that he was in the WH for a short time, and this had nothing to do with his role.
Bolton was the National security advisor, not the FSO for the white house.
His responsibility was not documents.
” No such document has been produced because that’s just another lie.”
No document needs to be produced. Several people have testified that Trump did this”
Aparently you think Presidential directions can only be given in writing.
“But, even if these documents were “declassified”, it is still a crime to possess them.”
Nope. Read the espionage act – nothing is about possession. It is all about ACTS.
If some Clinton staffer on their own, put thousands of classified documents into boxes in Clinton’s home – here possession of them would not be a crime.
Her Crime is that she did not have the authority to remove classified documents from government security,
but she did so, or directed others to do so, AND further she placed them or directed others to place them on a mail server on the internet.
These are all ACTS.
Possession is not the issue.
“And, it is blasphemy against the United States of America to refer to your hero as a “president”. ”
We all know that you left wing nuts have made a religion out of your ideology.
“Having cheated his way into office”
By not colluding with Russia ?
“having decimated our economy”
By having higher average growth than either Obama or Bush – including through the pandemic ?
“botched the pandemic”
By having fewer deaths in 2020 without a vaccine, than Biden had in 2021 and 2022 with one ?
“started a riot because he’s not man enough to admit he lost,”
You mean the election that the left went rouge and lawless on and refuses to allow any transparency about ?
“and now, stealing TS/SCI documents,”
Do you have video of Trump scaling he fence outside the whitehouse on Jan 21, 2021 ?
“lying about them,”
How ?l
“and profiting off of the crisis he created by his selfishness and ignorance”
Trump is politically profiting – glad you are astute enough to grasp that.
But he is profiting from the OBVIOUS double standards and political vindictiveness of the left.
“he doesn’t deserve the title.”
He was inaugurated – just like Biden.
Biden deserves it far less.
“This latest caper is just more proof of the destructive nature of his malignant narcissism, his willingness to lie and utter lack of regard for the welfare of the United States.”
This “caper” is all the malfeasance of Biden.
It has now been established that the WH was in this and directing from the very start.
They made a huge mistake. One that according to house democrats is impeachable.
Biden used to power of his office to go after a political rival.
How many democrats will vote to impeach ?
My sense is he will not be indicted anytime soon, if ever. To play out the drama indefinitely is [the] intention of the statists. It’s like yet another long drawn out hoax engineered for sheer political purposes. One that will only come to an abrupt and unheralded end when Trump announces he will never run for any political office again.
That video should have been posted with a warning. Something to the affect that an intense ill feeling is likely to overcome the viewer at the sight of Maddow and O’Donnell charming one another.
RE:”That video should have been posted with a warning. ” So goes to my caution regarding the need to be circumspect when it comes to sources.”
My sense is he will not be indicted anytime soon, if ever. To play out the drama indefinitely is [the] intention of the statists. It’s like yet another long drawn out hoax engineered for sheer political purposes. One that will only come to an abrupt and unheralded end when Trump announces he will never run for any political office again.
That video should have been posted with a warning. Something to the affect that an intense ill feeling is likely to overcome the viewer at the sight of Maddow and O’Donnell charming one another.
Ron A. Hoffman,
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. The gravity of the violations and the fact that it involves clear obstruction of Justice issues it’s becoming more likely that he will be charged with multiple felonies. He’s no longer president and he no longer has the benefit of being immune from prosecution. That he’s a former president should be irrelevant. He still broke the law and he must be prosecuted accordingly. You would expect the same for Biden if he was in the same predicament wouldn’t you?
Trump has had the documents in question for 18 months. If there were “clear violations”, and if there were “evidence of obstruction” he should have been indicted months ago. The calculated timing and the commando raid employed for serving a specious general warrant was staged for maximum effect, as are the strategic leaks to the state media.
Penny, it takes time to gather evidence. Trump was given multiple opportunities to return those documents quietly. Hence the lack of action. Only when it was clear that Trump had no intention of returning everything did the DOJ initiate a search warrant request. Give it some time. Trump hasn’t finished digging himself deeper into his legal problems with the law. Charges are coming. As long as Trump incompetently keeps trying to make lame excuses he keeps increasing his already great chances of getting indicted.
RE:”I wouldn’t be so sure about that…” Your passion to see Trump’s destruction has been well documented by you, and well noted by this august body. Be prepared to be terribly disappointed if your expectations aren’t realized. Much like the Biden supporters, joyful at his election, who are now avoiding him like the plague. Be careful what you wish for.
Zzdoc,
The same can be said about trump supporters expectations that he will emerge unscathed from his latest scandal. Trump has gotten to the point where he’s obliviously incriminating himself. Give it some time. He is very likely to be charged.
RE:” The same can be said about trump supporters expectations that he will emerge unscathed..” I have no such expectations. I’m just sitt’in here on the bank watching the river flow and waiting for the Charmin to roll out.
Turley, you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to make your readers believe it would be a normal thing for an affidavit used to obtain a search warrant to be released and revealed PRIOR TO charges being filed. I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS TURLEY!!!!!!!!!! I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS FACT, TURLEY!
There is ZERO PER CENT CHANCE of Magistrate Reinhardt releasing ANY PART OF the FBI affidavit used to obtain the FBI search warrant prior to charges being filed.
Once charges are filed, then prosecutors will provide a copy of the affidavit used to obtain the search warrant to the indicted person.
It would be IMPOSSIBLE FOR JONATHAN TURLEY NOT TO KNOW THESE FACTS!!!! EVERY ATTORNEY AND JUDGE IN AMERICA KNOWS THE AFFIDAVIT USED TO OBTAIN A SEARCH WARRANT IS NEVER REVEALED PRIOR TO CHARGES BEING FILED!!!!!!
When it appears that there is a concerted effort by an agency of the US to lie and cheat in their claims against an American citizen and a former President, then such actions should be carefully scrutinized. The affidavit, with minimal redactions, should be produced.
You can see why, by looking at the FBI’s former actions and the actions of those leading the FBI and CIA as they act as talking heads on the shows you are accustomed to. Then you can look at where they lied, such as the FISA warrants, and see for yourself that this is a special case, requiring maximum transparency.
Trump has been lying too. Shouldn’t that deserve scrutiny too?
Charges will be filed and the full scope of the affidavit will be known. Turley and Trump will have their chance soon enough.
Agencies of the United States should be impartial and not lie.
The problem with calling Trump a liar is that most of what is called a lie is actually true. Other things are opinion and very rarely error. He doesn’t lie about significant things.
“ The problem with calling Trump a liar is that most of what is called a lie is actually true. Other things are opinion and very rarely error. He doesn’t lie about significant things.”
He lies about everything. Was it true that the FBI planted documents at MAL? Nope.
Was it true that novo was able to see what the FBI was doing? Nope. He watched the whole on his own CCTV.
He lied about the warrant being unconstitutional and illegal.
He lied about turning in everything to the archives.
The simplest truth is Trump is a well known liar. The FBI knew and that’s why they went with a search warrant, because he lied about having given back everything. Yep. Trump is a massive liar.
RE: “He lied about the warrant being unconstitutional and illegal…” Where, when and how has this been ruled ‘not so’? . Please don’t pontificate legalese to us. Post the hearing, the ruling, the presiding judge, and the date.on which it was adjudicated as having been prepared in such fashion so as NOT to constitute a general warrant in violation of the 4th Amendment.
ZZDoc,
Unless a judge determines it not to be a valid warrant, then it’s a legal warrant. That is the default for all warrants signed by judges, the vast majority of which never have any separate ruling on their constitutionality. So far, Trump’s lawyers haven’t been able to file a proper complaint or motion; they were gently chided by the judge to whom it was submitted and she set out for them what they need to address and gave them til Friday to address it. But I doubt that it’s going to be found unconstitutionally broad, for reasons discussed here by law professor Orin Kerr: https://twitter.com/OrinKerr/status/1558714519244795904
RE:”Unless a judge determines it not to be a valid warrant, then it’s a legal warrant..” You present a well constructed rebuttal. That which I responded to and remains to be challenged is whether or not it will, in fact, be judged in proper form and if Reinhardt erred in signing it if it.were not. My personal opinion is that knowing his own bias, his prior recusal in Trump v Clinton, he should have recused himself again, justifying same on those grounds to the individuals who presented to him. Your final observation and link supporting it is appreciated. and informative. We need more of same in these pages.
Your caps lock is on.
Turley as a law professor calling for the release of the affidavit prior to charges is doing a HUGE disservice to his law students.
Turley is selling his “expertise” for the cheap thrill of fleeting fame.
Turley is already being laughed at by real lawyers.
How hard is he going to spin when charges are filed. Will he contort himself so grotesquely in legal rationales or will he go hard on another Hunter Biden column. Only time will tell.
Dear ‘Svelaz’ Some folks are too blinded by the darkness of their own ideology to see that there are other Universes in play besides their own…..Allow me to offer a glimmer of Light here, for example, In my Universe, Prof. Turley is held in high regard and esteem, both by myself and countless other lawyers… mainly by those not under the influence of the radical school of Beyond-Left-Framing (BLF), so well led by the folks at MSNBC, Lincoln Project, et al….all we can hope is that perhaps one day you will finally get a bigger vision…
There was the Ukrainian call, Russia Collusion now this political attack. The one thing they all have in common the more the truth comes out the better it is for Trump and the more it shows we have an FBI and DOJ that are outright enemies of justice.
Enemies of the American people.
@Tony,
This is why there’s a statement that ‘History will be kind to Trump’.
That means that as these facts percolate up… it benefits Trump.
Its interesting that the US Government took the place of the individuals Trump sued for violating his constitutional rights.
I guess Trump has to sue the government, win then sue these individuals directly.
The government is losing both credibility and respect (I know, hard to do given the low starting point).
1/6 is one natural consequence of this diminishing respect.
And the government knows it – the massive increase in IRS compliance funding (not customer service) is Washington’s reaction.
Another tool to attack political enemies. Donate, put a yard sign up, and you too will be audited.
The Majority of the People can not and will not go on like this. It is our turn now. Everyone must be on guard for democratic cheating, and report it immediately to your local state officials. Biden Administration’s Deep State is waging a cold civil war on normal Americans, and WE THE PEOPLE must arise to the challenge.
No one is fooled. They can’t help themselves.
The National Socialist Democrat Party is taking us to Civil War whether you wish to participate or not.
Every day we collect an additional data point providing evidence of the malevolence of this DoJ and its sheer partisanship and lack of ethics
“It is difficult to understand why such communications could not be released in a redacted affidavit while protecting more sensitive sections.”
Judge Reinhart discussed this in an order yesterday, but Turley apparently hasn’t read it.
courtlistener.com/docket/64872441/80/united-states-v-sealed-search-warrant/
Apparently he also hasn’t read the May letter from NARA to Trump that the Trump team apparently leaked to John Solomon:
https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/full-text-national-archives-letter-trump-classified-documents
“the government is opposing even modest disclosures from the court”
That’s false. For example, the government did not oppose unsealing the warrant and the receipt.
“The leaks describe the June meeting in Mar-a-Lago and reveals that Jay Bratt, the chief of the counterespionage section of the national security division of the Justice Department, met with two of Mr. Trump’s lawyers, Evan Corcoran and Christina Bobb. He then went through the boxes himself to identify classified material. This information is likely contained in the affidavit”
For crying out loud, this info is contained in Trump’s motion filed yesterday!! It’s not a leak! Apparently Turley hasn’t read Trump’s motion either, perhaps because it’s not on the docket — though it’s widely reported and a copy is readily accessible — because of how Trump oddly chose to file it.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763/gov.uscourts.flsd.618763.1.0.pdf
SMH.
Truly says…”It shows utter contempt for the court and the public.” Perhaps Trump is showing utter contempt for the constitution and good governance.
“Apparently Turley hasn’t read Trump’s motion either” Indeed. Professor Turkey seems to think every trump statement as factually true and every government statement is false. But we know that trump has lied on thousands of occasions. He has no credibility. Turley at first said why didn’t the government just ask for the boxes. Turned out they did, several times, And trumps team lied and said they didn’t have anything. And now it turns out that it wasn’t’ just trumps lawyers that lied, trump directed them to lie.
Trump is a disaster, his closest associates have gone to jail or soon will. Yet trump is being persecuted? Please, The trump fascist party will not win a national election, Dr Oz is a joke, Ron Johnson is a joke, Herschal Walker is a joke. The Repo party in Arizona will not win a state election as they have gone all in Q and baby eating Demos.
It sure would be nice if the Repo party could come to their senses, join the rest of the country and try to govern with the intent of helping the nation, not one man.
Politics aside, there ought to be one uniting principle every American can agree on, and that is the sanctity of TS/SCI documents essential to our national security, our national defenses, and our allies. Everyone knows that the greater the risk to national security, the higher the classification. If our assets are compromised, this affects the safety of every one of us. It’s so bad that that Congress has requested a damage assessment.
I’ve yet to see any Trumpster or Republican defend his stealing of these papers, keeping them in unsecure locations, letting all sorts of people go through the documents and rearrange them, lying about having returned them, lying about “declassifying” them and claiming that “they’re not theirs–they’re mine”. Clearly, this was NO mistake–Trump took them on purpose. In December, he went through the boxes himself, so he knew what he had and can’t blame underlings for mistakenly packing away papers he shouldn’t have taken in the first place. Every day that goes by, more and more facts are disclosed that prove the depth and extent of his depravity–especially using this “unprecedented” situation he caused for political gain by claiming to be a victim of politics and for fundraising. Then, there’s the implied threat to the DOJ: if you prosecute me, my Trump Army will come after you–trying to blame the DOJ for the “anger” HE stirred up by disclosing the search warrant and claiming to be a “victim”. That implied threat even appears in the pathetic pleading his lawyers filed. WHY hasn’t Trump denounced his follower who tried to attack the Cincinnati FBI office, and who died after a standoff with the police? WHY should he–he doesn’t care that his unhinged rhetoric caused this situation. If there is anger in this country–HE”S the cause. HE’s the one who publicized the seizure of the documents and stirred up the faithful, just like he did on Jan 6th.
WHERE is the patriotism of Republicans? WHEN are they going to stand up for the one thing we all can agree on–the safety of our classified information, national defense and the security of our allies? WHY aren’t they outraged over this theft, and WHY aren’t they questioning the reason he stole them and what he intended to do with these papers? WHY did he allow all sorts of people to go through the boxes and rearrange and switch the contents? WHO are these people? WERE the documents digitized and/or copied, and WHO has had access to them? There are NO factual disputes here: Trump stole documents containing our most highly classified information valuable to our enemies, he has lied about it, refused to return the materials voluntarily despite multiple requests, has allowed people to go through and rearrange the boxes, and is now turning this crisis into victimhood and financial gain. Just how far can Trump go before Republicans do something about him?
” Perhaps Trump is showing utter contempt for the constitution”
Can you cite the section of the constitution Trump is showing contempt for ?
“and good governance.” If Trump is showin contempt for the Biden administration – that would be for governance than 80% of americans think is BAD.
“Professor Turkey seems to think every trump statement as factually true and every government statement is false.”
Given the past 6 years – that is a reasonable assumption.
“But we know that trump has lied on thousands of occasions.”
Then you would be able to CITE specific consequential LIES.
lie: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
“I did not have sex with that woman” – was a lie.
“if you like your doctor you can keep them” – was a lie.
“I had nothing to do with my sons business” – was a lie.
Collusion Delusion was a lie.
“The Hunter Biden laptop is russian disinformation” – was a lie.
“He has no credibility.”
If He is – DOJ, FBI, Garland, Biden, the current WH – that would be correct.
“Turley at first said why didn’t the government just ask for the boxes. Turned out they did, several times”
And they were given access, and they took what they wanted, and then they demanded more – over and over.
“And trumps team lied and said they didn’t have anything.”
They did not say they did not have anything.
“And now it turns out that it wasn’t’ just trumps lawyers that lied, trump directed them to lie.”
Assumes facts not in evidence.
“Trump is a disaster”
In comparison to Bush ? Obama ? Biden ?
Trump was not a very good president. But he remains the very best president of the 21st century.
During Trumps presidency – the world got more peaceful, the US got more prosperous.
We listened to those of you on the left rant about how the world found Trump embarrasing – and then we got Biden and foudn out what an actual buffoon on the world stage looks like. And world leaders do not fear Biden or the US, or respect Biden or the US.
It is self evident that your judgement is POOR.
“his closest associates have gone to jail”
Manafort ? Cohen ? These are close associates ?
Isn’t Cohen an anti-Trump talking head on MSNBC ?
“or soon will.”
Again assumes facts not in evidence.
“Yet trump is being persecuted?”
This is not about Trump. I could care less if Trump is “persecuted” – what this IS about is that Biden, Democrats, the Left have actually Done all the evil things they have accused Trump of.
The Threat to democracy – is YOU. The lawless president is Biden. The incompetent President is Biden.
The political party violating laws and norms constantly is Democrats.
I like Sam Harris – but he spoke the quiet part outloud
“I do not care if Joe Biden’s son Hunter had “corpses of children” in his basement and it had been covered up prior to the 2020 election.”
When the ends justifies the means – you abandon all claims to morality.
“The trump fascist party will not win a national election,”
The RCP average has Trump +3 over Biden and has had that for months.
Fascism is nationalist socialism. That is how it was defined by Hitler and Musolini would founded it.
Trump is aboslutely nationalist, and absolutely NOT socialist.
“Dr Oz is a joke, Ron Johnson is a joke, Herschal Walker is a joke. The Repo party in Arizona will not win a state election as they have gone all in Q and baby eating Demos.”
Those are things that get decided in november.
You are entitled to your own opinion, but so is everyone else.
Fetterman is a joke. He is a Bernie Bro who like Bernie has never worked a day in his life – that is a joke.
It is very odd how so very many democrats only adult experience is slopping at the public trough.
Oz, Johnson, and Waker have all be successful BEFORE seeking public service.
In fact they have all been successful at more than one career BEFORE public service.
They have all had to figure out in the real world how to trade value for value with people who were not FORCED to engage with them.
“it sure would be nice if the Repo party could come to their senses, join the rest of the country and try to govern with the intent of helping the nation, not one man.”
Has Joe Biden had a job since he was a paper boy ? Fleecing the public does not count.
Can you name a democrat who has not gotten rich WHILE in office ?
Can you name a republican whose fortune – large or small was not made BEFORE they were elected ?
If we are looking for the party of the self serving – that is pretty clearly democrats.
If we are looking for the party of git rich at the public trough – that is pretty clearly the democrats.
Do you live in the real world ?
Trump could have lived comfortably without ever entering public service.
The same is true of Oz, Johnson, Walker, ….
Conversely Pelosi, Biden, Fetterman, Waters, Obama, …. ALL came to government with little and left government Rich.
Trump’s motion is a disaster on many levels. It implicates two of his lawyers as having conflicts of interest. He argues for a Special Master based on claims of executive privilege, but one cannot assert executive privilege against the executive branch (in this case, the DOJ) and the current executive. The NARA letter released to Solomon says as much. Also, by definition, EP docs are official documents and belong to NARA, not Trump. No wonder Turley is trying to avoid discussing Trump’s motion. It’s being widely ridiculed by lawyers though.
Rubbish, truth mixed with leftist rubbish from a small man.
“Judge Reinhart discussed this in an order yesterday, but Turley apparently hasn’t read it.”
What a vile and offensive little man ATS is. Professor Turley has a lot of responsibilities. He is not fixated on singular issues. ATS is, waiting for reports day and night that he might get shortly before Turley. ATS is trying to climb the ladder at everyone’s expense and is nasty in the process. As we have seen ATS knows little and errs frequently.
When was that released? Maybe when Turley got home to eat dinner and be with his family. Anonymous the Stupid’s whole life is to demean others to feel good about himself. Notably, the last update from the Court Listener was from this morning.
This blog is Anonymous the Stupid’s life. Take it away, and he no longer exists.
S. Meyer
I try to avoid ATS.
The times that I read him, I regret the lost time.
ATS spends his whole day pathetically refreshing his browser, looking for comments about himself.
Even now he is probably dancing with glee: “They noticed me!”.
Life is a lot nicer when we just ignore ATS.
“I try to avoid ATS.”
Monument, I don’t blame you, but there are uninformed people in this world. There is no way to stop jokers of this nature. If you want proof look at the MSM.
In between my ‘work’, I have time for Anonymous the Stupid. I am retired and haven’t needed to work for a long time. The extra few minutes to deal with garbage causes me no harm.
To Monument and S. Meyer,
Is it just me or does the various Anonymous attacking the professor appear to be getting desperate?
I generally scroll past Anonymous postings, but their frequency and rantings seem to be getting shrill.
Perhaps TDS is a mental illness?
Perhaps you’re unaware that many Anonymous comments come from S Meyer himself.
Upstate, you are right. They can’t attack the truth so they attack the professor. One of the least intellectually endowed has been calling the professor stupid and all sorts of things. You are a farmer, so you know it’s hard to control animals.
S. Meyer, food works for farm animals. Horses love apples.
David, put animals in the house and they defecate on the floor. That is basically what the leftist Dems are doing to the blog.
It seems Anonymous the Stupid is very angry. He wrote one response to be deleted and another that still resides below.
The deleted comment said: “You’re a prig, Meyer. Try conversing like an adult.”
Do you see what I mean, David? Let ATS in the house and the floor becomes a big mess. Better to put him out to pasture to do his dirty work saving the blog from his irrational and irritating behavior.
S. Meyer,
“ What a vile and offensive little man ATS is. Professor Turley has a lot of responsibilities. He is not fixated on singular issues.”
He’s a law professor. Trump released his motion YESTERDAY. Turley had plenty of time to analyze it and include it in his column like every other diligent lawyer did. If IS part of Turley’s responsibility and he did a lousy job by jumping to a conclusion when EVERYONE ELSE got the facts before making assumptions. This is why real lawyers are laughing at Turley.
“ When was that released? Maybe when Turley got home to eat dinner and be with his family.”
Will Turley issue a correction? I doubt it. If he’s as “honest” as he purports himself to be he would issue an update or a correction AFTER reading the motion. I Suspect he won’t after accusing the government of doing something they didn’t do. He’s already got egg on his face, twice.
“He’s a law professor. “
Svelaz, that is the first thing you have gotten correct in a long time.
It wasn’t Trump’s motion that Anonymous the Stupid was talking about.
Turley has cases, teaching responsibilities and papers where he puts his effort. You have nothing. He doesn’t have to be up to the minute on anything else just because ATS sits by his computer waiting for specific limited reports to come in.
Time to stop being Stupid.
Anonymous (S. Meyer),
“ It wasn’t Trump’s motion that Anonymous the Stupid was talking about.”
From anonymous post,
“ Trump’s motion is a disaster on many levels. It implicates two of his lawyers as having conflicts of interest.”
He was talking about Trump’s motion, apparently you’re bad at lying.
“ Turley has cases, teaching responsibilities and papers where he puts his effort.”
He’s a tenured professor which means he usually delegates those responsibilities to teaching students or assistants. You haven’t been in a university have you? Turley had no problem putting out one or two articles a day during Trump’s term.
“ He doesn’t have to be up to the minute on anything else just because ATS sits by his computer waiting for specific limited reports to come in.”
Everyone else KNEW about the motion, except Turley. It came out yesterday. But, like I said if he’s honest he either will issue an update or a correction after reading the motion. That’s what a law professor should be doing. Otherwise he is setting a really, really bad example for his students.
It seems you never stopped being stupid and clueless.
“From anonymous post,“
Svelaz the Clueless is looking at the wrong post. Try again. No lies were involved but you don’t have the brains to figure that out.
This raises the question of Turley’s competence as a law professor. He’s jumping to conclusions before confirming the facts.
Turley is the one demanding that the entirety of the contents on the affidavit be released. Now he’s complaining about “leaks”. I thought he wanted the details now that he’s getting them thru “leaks” he’s feigning outrage?
Trump’s incompetent lawyers are really not helpful.
“This raises the question of Turley’s competence as a law professor.”
Can anyone get more Stupid?
Apparently you can. Thanks for showing us.
Svelaz the Clueless, are you trying to highlight how stupid you are.
Your quote, ““This raises the question of Turley’s competence as a law professor.” is a pretty high level of stupidity but that is what you are known for.
Svelaz… ‘..jumping to conclusions before confirming the facts….’ Indeed you are!
The Trump team can not “leak” anything.
If the government communicates with a private person, the right to disclose that communication belongs to the private person.
This distinction is important throughout this.
Thought there is some unfortunate law to the contrary – that may not be applicable here.
The RIGHT to keep criminal investigations secret is a right of those being investigated. It is NOT a right of the government.
Government often makes – and far to often the courts improperly accept claims by government that their case will be compromised by disclosures – that is CRAP.
We do not try people in secret. We investigate in secret – to protect the targets of the investigation NOT to protect government.
Government does not have rights, it has powers.
Even Government REQUESTING a warrant should ordinarily be subject to challenge.
Read the 4th amendment – it is a civil right (government created right) of PERSONS.
Someone should inform the Biden Administration that the Star Chamber was abolished in England in 1641. The Fourth Amendment protects citizens from the abuses of power it employed.
If Trump’s lawyers want to make a 4th Amendment argument, they can, but so far, they haven’t. Their filing on Monday was so weak that the judge it was assigned to had to give them guidance:
“ORDER: The Court is in receipt of 1 Plaintiff’s Motion for Judicial Oversight and Additional Relief. To facilitate appropriate resolution, on or before August 26, 2022, Plaintiff shall file a supplement to the Motion further elaborating on the following: (1) the asserted basis for the exercise of this Court’s jurisdiction, whether legal, equitable/anomalous, or both; (2) the framework applicable to the exercise of such jurisdiction; (3) the precise relief sought, including any request for injunctive relief pending resolution of the Motion; (4) the effect, if any, of the proceeding before Magistrate Judge Bruce E. Reinhart; and (5) the status of Plaintiff’s efforts to perfect service on Defendant. Signed by Judge Aileen M. Cannon on 8/23/2022.”
If they had any wrong doing they wouldn’t leak. Same crew as before, same MO.
RE: Such has been their way of conducting business for decades. No expectations for change now nor in the future.
Raises questions about the motivation? I think you meant answers questions about the motivation.
I find myself coming to this website everyday now because Mr. Turley is as close to non-partisan as you can get these days. Most of just want the facts about what is happening to the executive branch and within the Trump orbit. We don’t need to be told who is an insurrectionist and which institution is overreaching their authority unless it comes with actual facts and critical analysis. Thankfully there are still one or two people like Mr. Turley who lay out the facts and allow the reader to draw their own conclusions.
Professor, as I looks like you missed last nights developments, here is my take (I filed it some hours ago in your previous blog post):
According to John Sullivan, Co-Host of “Just the News”: Trump Lawer Evan Corcoran was informed by Acting National Archivist Debra Steidel “that she had the blessing of Biden to overrule those privilege claims and share all materials requested by the DOJ and FBI.” Biden administration believes a Watergate era ruling suggested Biden had the authority to waive Trump’s privileges:
Nixon v. Administrator of General Services, [SCOTUS 433 U.S. 425 (1977)]. It “strongly suggests that a former President may not successfully assert executive privilege ‘against the very Executive Branch in whose name the privilege is invoked. That ruling, however, was issued under an earlier predecessor law for presidential records.
This openend the door to instigate the criminal probe into alleged mishandling of documents, allowing the FBI to review evidence retrieved from Mar-a-Lago. “Within a couple of weeks of Wall’s letter to Corocoran, the DOJ sent a grand jury subpoena to Trump’s team demanding the return of any remaining national security documents, which precipitated a voluntary visit by the FBI to Mar-a-Lago on June 3, when agents picked a small amount of materials Trump’s lawyers said were responsive to the subpoena Two months later, the FBI escalated again, seeking a search warrant to raid the Trump estate on 8/8/22 [1]
J. William Leonard, appointed to ISOO-Director by “W”, shares WH opinion that the incoming administration can revoke the decission of the outgoing administration. [3]
On 9/15/22, “President Biden will host the United We Stand Summit at the White House to counter the corrosive effects of hate-fueled violence on our democracy and public safety, highlight the response of the Biden-Harris Administration and communities nationwide to these dangers, and put forward a shared, bipartisan vision for a more united America”
[1] https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/biden-white-house-facilitated-dojs-criminal-probe-against-trump
[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/
I just read that this morning.
An interesting turn of events.
I look forward to the United We Stand summit. No sarc implied. Really, speeches be toward uniting people?
The only way Biden could unite the country even a little would be to resign.
We are far past the point this whitehouse could bring about unity.
The most important part of this is that The WH was involved at the start and that it appears that the WH drug DOJ/FBI into this.
The Watergate era legal ruling might be meaningful in a dispute over ownership of what was seized.
But it really is inconsequential otherwise.
The civil conflict over whether Trump had a right to keep some of his presidential documents is only important to the spat between NARA and Trump. It has absolutely no bearing on the alleged crimes.
The criminal aspect of this is a complete non-starter unless DOJ can PROVE that Trump removed classified documents AFTER he left the presidency.
I think it is highly likely that Trump will ultimately win a civil dispute over ownership.
But losing only changes where this relatively small volume of documents sit while waiting for the Trump presidential library to be completed.
Posession of classified documents is not illegal for ANYONE. It is the ACTS that had to be taken to aquire them AND/OR what you did with them afterwards that constitutes a crime.
Clinton violated the espionage act, because she has no personal declassification authority and she inarguably removed classifed documents from a secure setting to a highly insecure setting where with near certainty they were accessed by hostile foreign powers and where with absolute certainty people without US Government permission gained access.
We do not know the details of how these documents got to MAL – which is surprising as it is not likely to be secret.
If Trump personally moved them while President – they are defacto declassified.
If Trump ordered them moved while president – they are likely defacto declassified.
If Trump ordered them declassified – and Trump ordered thousands of documents declassified – publicly they are declassified.
Even if Biden subsequently reclassified them – there is still no crime. Though there is no evidence of this.
If GSA moved them as part of the transfer of power – they are not likely declassified – But Trump’s possession of them is not a crime.
If Trump came into possession of these documents legally – which is near certain, AND they are still classified, but PERSONALLY mishandled them – such as by putting them on a basement bathroom email server on the internet that would be a crime – unless you are a democrat.
Mishandling by GSA, or mishandling by others DOES NOT COUNT. Trump has to know the classified documents are there and personally ACT to make them less secure.
If GSA delivered them to the pool apron at MAL and put up a sign that said Classified documents here – that would be a GSA problem not a Trump problem.
For Trump to have a criminal problem the documents MUST still be classified, he MUST know it, and he MUST make them LESS secure than they were as delivered to MAL.
As best as we can tell these documents were locked up as instructed by the FBI – that is not a Trump problem.
Next – in the highly unlikely possibility that Trump snuck back to the WH or otherwise directed someone else to provide him with classified documents AFTER he was president – then he would be guilty of a crime.
Lastly, ex-presidents – as well as many other ex-administration officials retain their security clearance.
Ex-Presidents and Ex-VP’s retain access to absolutely any classified documents of the US government – limited only by the current president actively denying them specific access.
They are obligated to handle them securely – and unlike as president they can legally mishandle them.
Regardless, trying to thread the needle to get a crime here is nearly impossible.
But the big deal in these revelations is that the WH was DRIVING all of this from the start.
This is near certain a deliberate effort by the WH to entrap Trump. That has appeared likely before, it is now near certain.
Thank you for the clear explanation of the law attending this, (pardon the pun) Trumped up allegation. It would seem the DOJ has a lot of either, dumb
or desperate lawyers, who have thrown honesty and ethics to the wind in pursuit of a partisan political goal.
While there is partisanship in play, the FBI/DOJ have been corrupt and self serving for a long long time.
I have not been a fan of the FBI since I was a child – a long long time ago. There are so many instances of malfeasance by the FBI over time.
One someone else pointed out that I forgot was the cover up of rape and sexual assault in the US women’s Olympic team for YEARS. Not political to my understanding but still revolting and corrupt.
Several republicans are trying to claim this is just a few bad apples – sorry, it is not. A very significant percent of FBI cases demonstrate corruption.
In this instance the animous and corruption may be political. that is almost tangential.
Those on the left who think the FBI/DOJ will not turn on them if it is to their benefit are stupid.
There is obvious political corruption and lying involving the Biden WH early involvement.
Just to be clear – there is nothing illegal about the WH directing the DOJ/FBI that has occured back to Thomas Jefferson atleast.
The two things that are damning is:
They have been lying about their involvement from the start.
There is a slowly growing body of evidence that this is about burying the collusion delusion documents that Trump declassified.
If that is the case – this is a CLEAR Criminal coverup involving DOJ/FBI/WH.
Even if that is not the case it is highly dubious and wrong.
But if all or most of this turns on trying to hide those documents – this is a monumental coverup and crime.
The government is surely a ship of fools if they think Trump walked out of the WH carrying bankers boxes and loaded them onto Marine One. It was done by aides and movers. Trump offered the DOJ and the retired hatchet man at the National Archives everything they wanted and got searched for the courtesy. Biden is a vile man and Garland is a weasel. Together they compose the biggest cancer on the justice system we’ve seen in our lifetimes. I hope they “rot where’s it’s hot” after they get a reckoning
Mespo,
“ The government is surely a ship of fools if they think Trump walked out of the WH carrying bankers boxes and loaded them onto Marine One. It was done by aides and movers.”
Trump deliberately told his staffers those classified documents were his and that the were to be sent to MAL. The government KNEW he took those boxes. That’s how they knew he had them. They asked nicely first. When he said no they then issued a subpoena. When he still didn’t fully comply then they issued a search warrant. Trump was literally illegally keeping documents that did not belong to him by law. Refusing to turn them over and then lie about turning everything over are both serious crimes under the espionage act.
Okay let’s indict all government officials who kept documents like Obama and HIllary. Then after the trials that will inevitably end with an appeals court throwing out the charges, we can come up with another diversion of the Dims to get our mind off spiraling inflation and a foreign affairs policy that resembles Carthage’s vis a vi Rome.
Trump hasn’t been indicted.
The judge could put a quick stop to the DOJ leaks by announcing that any information divulged through leaks to the media that corresponds to sealed information in the affidavit will render the seal null and void and that information may not be redacted as it is in the public domain by virtue of unnamed Department employees.
When you are faced with the question – someone is clearly lying, is it Trump or the other person? It is always, always Trump. Every time. Trump claims people called him up crying – people who have never talked to Trump by phone in their lives. Trump lies about everything all the time. He is never, never vindicated when the facts come out.
Remember when Trump was saying the classified documents were planted by the FBI? Now we know he was lying about that. Remember when he and his lawyers said there were no more classified documents. now we know he was lying about that.
Trump is the most dishonest person ever. He is constantly lying about everything. All the time. Before he was President, when he was President, and now. This is not that difficult to see.
TISL why don’t you change the moniker to “TDS” so we get truth in advertising before reading your “comments” that sound like notes passed about by elementary school girls.
That is degrading to elementary school girls. Their notes are important.
BD:
True. Let’s just say it’s like the trolls around here passing notes.
One of the interesting things of note for culturally bereft magats is that, along with campaigning against the word ‘woke’, (thereby taking a stand for remaining asleep and out of touch), trump derangement syndrome is an expression with no coherent weight past his first day in the office of the presidency…
The man was impeached twice and will be indicted multiple times in his post presidency. Facts on the ground have far surpassed the point where people extremely wary of trump from the start have been proven correct in their fears about him. The man was, even for gullible magats, worse than ever advertised and every day of his administration got worse. He hasn’t changed course since being out of office…
Just because saying ‘TDS’ puts a jingle in your shorts doesn’t make the term any less irrelevant than it’s become.
If the term TDS were as “irrelevant” as you’d like us to believe, it wouldn’t be necessary for you to say as such. Words only have an impact if they resonate within.
If it were actually relevant you wouldn’t have to use it when cornered by inconvenient fact profiles.
mespo727272 – Could you please point me to the voter fraud that trump has been yelling about for 2 years? He had 60 court cases where not one piece of voter fraud was put forward to the court.
How about his comments right after the raid that said the FBI planted stuff? Oops, he admitted he had stuff but it was his.
How many of his top advisors have been convicted of crimes?
What did trump mean when he asked the Georgia Sec of State to find 12,000 votes for him.
Just curious.
BT:
“Could you please point me to the voter fraud that trump has been yelling about for 2 years? He had 60 court cases where not one piece of voter fraud was put forward to the court.”
***********************
“He” didn’t have 60 cases. Sixty cases were brought by various people and dismissed not on their merits but mostly standing grounds. The fraud investigations are on-going but Gableman in Wisconsin deserves more scrutiny as do the issues in Arizona. DeSantis in Florida has about 20 Dim indictments. The documentary 2000 Mules raises important concerns about ballot boxes and of course the illegal action of the Pennsylvania Sec of State never gets mentioned. You may think it’s coincidence that these swing states are the ones in the focus but in the politics of the Dim Empire there are no coincidences.
BTW when’s the last time a senile ol’ guy who didn’t campaign set the record for number of votes won? Just curious.
Big Mess worships at the shrine.
“DeSantis in Florida has about 20 Dim indictments.”
Ha. DeSantis busted 20 ex felons who were told their voting rights were restored for actually voting. Big Mess has nothing to work with. Prepare for an onslaught of ad hom.
“Prepare for an onslaught of ad hom.”
******************************
Naw:
tsil
Conveniently ignoring the past 6 years of IG rulings and FISA judges audits proving the DoJ is corrupt, from the person answering the phone at the lobby, to a Cabinet level administrator. A lot of those Trump “lies” are second and third hand tales, with one side of a discussion, and no context.
I believe he said they could be planting documents…His lawyer said there were no more classified documents because Trump said he had declassified all the documents…hence there were no classified documents. FBI lied for 4 years about Trump. Then they said they didn’t take his passports. Guess what? DOJ said we will return the passports. Not difficult to see.
Terrific, trenchant analysis. I can see you put a lot of thought into it. Thanks.
Maybe the New York Times is just making it up.
Joe, here is the full story. The “leaks” (actually a news release without attribution) are often wildly wrong, because all of the available information is omitted by design. An Actual Journalist would burn their source if that happened. But the media is in on the lie. The DoJ lies, the media winks publishes the lies.
This is hardly a surprise action by the Justice Dept and the US government. This was being done even before Trump was elected and also through the time of the special counsel and the “whistleblower / Ukraine” fiasco and subsequent impeachment. This is all an attempt to control the narrative and convict Trump without even a trial. It is not surprising that this would continue on even after leaving the White House. The leaks going to the New York Times is also not a surprise and just confirms who is doing it. The Times is hardly a paragon of truth anymore and certainly has been a left wing rag for decades. This has happened before in DC just not to the extent of this action particular to one individual, the former president. If you are right of center this just confirms the corruption of the Federal Government and it’s ability to try to destroy individuals. I suppose that if you are left of center it’s all because he is a threat to democracy and anything goes to confront and destroy Trump.
And people wonder why there is such a lack of trust in our institutions. The people in these institutions have lost our trust. It will take a lot of work and time to regain it if it can be done at all.
Indeed. It is reported that Biden had expressed a desire that Trump be prosecuted to Garland because “Trump is a threat to democracy” whatever that means.
Surprise, Surprise, Surprise! Garland signed off on a triple bankshot documents theory to investigate the man (the man who appointed a nominee who was confirmed to the same Supreme Court vacancy that Garland had been appointed to fill but which expired with the change of administrations).
Yes Garland never has to stand to be accountable. Like Holder and Lynch, immune from their actions.
The Russia hoax exposed the DoJ has a written procedure to leak to the media. Specific people are assigned the task of leaking the carefully curated
informationlies. The intent here is the headline will resonate with the low information voter and smear Trump. But the body of the article that points out the President has final say to declassify any document he deems necessary.Pure political theatre.
My simple question is so what?? If the documents have a “C” marking and the President has “sole” authority to declassify as pointed out by the newest member of SCOTUS ruling in Judicial Watch v. Clinton, it isn’t classified any longer. Seems a lot of Legal Scholars ignore the case law.
The President doesn’t have the authority to declassify everything, including some of the types of documents allegedly discovered during the search.
You need a cite for that. The President runs the Executive Branch. Classification is a creation of the Executive Branch.
Always fun to highlight Iowan’s leaps in logic…
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/
RE:”Always fun to highlight Iowan’s leaps in logic..” You might reassess your use of the Atlantic as rebuttal source. It’s bias is historically clear and the author may be cherry picking to support his thesis, based upon personally named and un-named sources..
He may be. Or he may not be. If you want to show that he *is* cherrypicking, then you actually have to engage with the content. Do you have any evidence that he *is* cherrypicking?
RE:”Do you have any evidence that he *is* cherrypicking?..” My comment did not imply that. I would have to dig deep into the resources he cites to determine the extent of their veracity or if there is nothing which can be refuted. When pieces like his are written, I always assume there is a ‘rest of the story’ hence I remain circumpsect.
The correct answer is that this is a gray area without a definitive answer. With a conservative majority on the Supreme Court, it is very likely that the statutes purporting to limit power of the “unitary executive” with respect to a clearly executive function would be held unconstitutional with respect to the President.
That being said, the whole discussion is rather pointless because any evidence-free claim by Trump regarding declassification can be theoretically countered by an evidence-free claim by the current president of re-classification.
Under the Theory of the Unitary Executive, the current president is the Unitary Executive, and his power cannot be limited by a former president. The evidentiary standard should not be different.
RE:”The correct answer ..” The ‘correct answer’ is what I wrote. You additional contributions are appreciated.
Judge that case was not appointed to SCOTUS
If you mean the ruling was never appealed. Correct. That is a strong signal, the law fails to support an appeal
That’s a District Court case, which means it has no binding authority.
Fair enough. And the Archives’ policies and procedures for storage of documents and the governent’s established past practices for declassification have no binding authority on a President either. Fun game we’re playing here!
Trump isn’t President.
Imagine that! HE got something right.
Until it is overturned on appeal it is law in that district, and lower courts are bound by the decision
It’s a district court. There are no lower courts “retard.”
It’s not binding on anyone, especially not on a court in a different district.
Nixon v Administrator of General Services, in contrast, is a relevant SCOTUS ruling.
Iowan, the lowest court in the DC federal circuit is the DC Circuit Court. No courts, within the DC Circuit or anywhere else are bound by this decision.
Not only that, but the decision is not applicable anyway. The case addressed was dismissed for lack of subject matter jurisdiction, which pertains to the court’s authority to hear the case. That would not be an issue here, because – instead of a third party’s request to view the records – we have the government itself searching Trump’s home.
Unfortunately John Solomon amplified the case without providing the appropriate context.
You keep raising red herrings.
Absolutely ABJ’s decision is not the same as a SCOTUS decision.
Nor is it the same as an apealate court decision.
But it is the only decision actually on point on the issue.
It is a published decision – and therefore should an other court chose not to follow it, it MUST explain why their case is different, or why ABJ is wrong.
Next, you duck the actual issue entirely – ABJ is not only the current controlling case law.
The decision is also Constitutionally correct.
Next, The constitution and laws enacted by congress that are consistent with the constitution are the law.
It is the courts duty to determine the constitutionality of laws passed by congress and to determine how the constitution and law apply to specific facts patterns.
The ability of DOJ or FBI to do the same only exists in the absence of court decisions.
The DC appellate court is not obligated to defer to ABJ nor are other courts – thought they are obligated to explain why her conclusions of law either do not apply or are wrong.
That freedom does not exist for DOJ/FBI.
They have no power to make new law, nor to ignore the only case law that currently exists.
Whether you like it or not the DOJ/FBI are rogue.
You keep arguing about circumstances that do not exist – There is no other court currently hearing a challenge to ABJ’s decision.
There is a very small possibility that you are correct, and some other court faced with a similar case might decide differently.
The odds are small – because those courts would have to explain their divergence, and because ABJ in this instance is correct.
According to the law, and the constitution
But that is not what we have.
We have DOJ/FBI/NARA ignoring the constitution, the law and existing case law, and pretending they get to play Judge.
Nowhere in our law or constitution is DOJ given judicial powers.
You left wing nuts want to play games with law. Pretend that you can disregard the constitution, the law, and case law.
And just make up the outcome you want.
This is lawlessness. It always ends badly.
Solomon provided the context. This is the current caselaw on the PRA. PERIOD.
Speculating on the low odds that some future mythical court might disagree is an excercise for law review articles – not the Attorney General of the United States.
Law students are free to speculate against current caselaw.
“The Court will grant the motion to dismiss pursuant to Rule 12(b)(1) because plaintiff’s
claim is not redressable. NARA does not have the authority to designate materials as
“Presidential records,” NARA does not have the tapes in question, and NARA lacks any right,
duty, or means to seize control of them. In other words, there has been no showing that a remedy
would be available to redress plaintiff’s alleged injury even if the Court agreed with plaintiff’s
characterization of the materials. Since plaintiff is completely unable to identify anything the
Court could order the agency to do that the agency has any power, much less, a mandatory duty,
to do, the case must be dismissed”
Here is the entire decision – I would strongly suggest reading it before spoutin nonsense.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/JW-v-NARA-Clinton-Tapes-opinion-01834.pdf
Your claim of lack of jurisdiction is both flase, and even if True would apply to NARA searching the presidents home.
ABJ explicitly decided that NARA did not have the power or authority to retreive documents from ex-presidents according to the PRA and therefore could not be ordered to do so.
I would further note that I was incorrect – as are YOU, this is not the only PRA case it is just the latest PRA case.
The prior one being decided by the DC appelate court and ABJ’s decision is consistent with that DC appellate decision.
This is just getting worse for you the further you proceed.
One of the SEVERAL analysis’s that ABJ makes is that the PRA does not give NARA the power to retrieve documents in the posession of ex-presidents – PERIOD. The PRA limits NARA’s powers to documents already in government’s possession.
There is not and never was a NARA case here.
Further ABJ’s decisions notes that the PRA directs the PRESIDENT to determine what records are personal records and what records are personal – not NARA. Aside from the plain text of the law – this would be true constitutionally.
“The executive power of the united states is vested in the president. ”
You should pound that through your skull. It is fundimental to our form of government, and you have to change the constitution to change it.
Congress can not give a power to the executive that is not a presidential power.
“Unfortunately John Solomon amplified the case without providing the appropriate context.”
ATS, proper context points in the opposite direction of what you want to hear, so you diss Solomon. Solomon was on point and you are wrong as usual because you place your ideology ahead of the law. This is why everything you say has to be carefully scrutinized, The law is secondary to your ideological wishes.
Trump is no longer President. Biden has the power to reclassify anything that Trump declassified. National defense information remains restricted even if declassified. The alleged crimes do not depend on whether the documents were classified.
Still no cite
No cite for what?
I think you are replying to Anonymous the Stupid. One can’t expect much from him, and what he says is likely rubbish mixed with small amounts of truth.
RE:I think you are replying to Anonymous the Stupid.:.. If so, and to avoid being found guilty by association, one might consider acquiring a new mantle.
ZZDoc, Anonymous wants to hide in the weeds with other anonymous posters some of whom are his pretend friends. He wants to be able to blame others for his stupidity. He has earned the title of Anonymous the Stupid or ATS for short.