U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg has been repeatedly criticized for transportation problems, including the holiday pile up at our ports that slowed delivery of goods in December. He was also criticized for his response to the recent airport shutdown. I have not joined in that criticism because I am not sure that he has direct responsibility for some of these problems. However, Buttigieg recently raised a legal claim to blame the Trump Administration for the train disaster in East Palestine, Ohio. The claim was not only manifestly false but Buttigieg knew or should have known it was false. The implications are deeply disturbing. When confronted with a disaster, Buttigieg not only made a false claim but attempted to weaponize a tragedy against political opponents. That is a serious problem for a public figure and worthy of condemnation.
Buttigieg was criticized for his delay in responding publicly to the Ohio disaster and his even longer delay in going to the site. Again, while a politically tone deaf, I was not one of those critics. It is possible to respond to a tragedy without being at the scene. However, the Administration (including the President) were clearly losing ground in its response with many noting the absence of both the President and Transportation Secretary in Ohio after the wreck.
When Buttigieg finally made it to the scene, significant time had passed and many of the details were known publicly on the cause. Buttigieg presumably had even earlier and better information, including the statements of the train crew on the cause.
The crew of the freight train received a warning about an overheating wheel bearing and tried to slow the train in response. According to the report of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), the wheel bearing was heating up for several miles before reaching 253 degrees Fahrenheit hotter than the air temperature. The train engineer employed the brakes and the automatic braking system also activated, but fifty of the train’s 149 cars derailed with 11 carrying toxic chemicals.
Given his delay in visiting the site, Buttigieg had more information on the cause of the derailment than just the initial accounts. However, he falsely claimed that “we’re constrained by law on some areas of rail regulation,” and cited “the braking rule withdrawn by the Trump administration in 2018 because of a law passed by Congress in 2015.”
This false claim was picked up by various pundits and politicians, including figures like Joy Behar on the The View. That included Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y.) who went to the Senate floor and declared that, in 2017,
“the Trump administration repealed requirements for an electronic braking system because, according to them, the safety benefits were not worth the cost. I think the people of East Palestine now know that analysis was wrong and that they’re suffering the consequences of rail companies putting profits over people.”
Yet, politicians and pundits often weaponize tragedy. A Secretary of Transportation is needed to establish the facts and assure the public that safety, not politics, is driving decisionmaking during a crisis. Buttigieg clearly failed that test in spectacular fashion.
National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Chair Jennifer Homendy took the opposite approach and stated the facts dispassionately and without a political spin. She stated that the rule raised by Buttigieg would have applied only to trains classified as high-hazard flammable trains: “This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn’t have had ECP brakes.”
Homendy sounded more like a cabinet member than Buttigieg when she declared “Enough with the politics on this. I don’t understand why this has gotten so political. This is a community that is suffering. This is not about politics.” Homendy added that anyone who says otherwise is “spreading misinformation.”
Given this Administration’s long use of disinformation and misinformation as rationales for censorship, the statement was particularly poignant. Would the Biden Administration demand that Buttigieg be censored by social media in making this claim as it has done with conservative speakers or posters? After all, this was a false claim made on a current public health emergency.
Of course, I would not censor Buttigieg. It is sufficient (as shown this week) that free speech allows for good speech to counter bad speech. However, it is another example of how subjective censorship can be when you go into the business of barring views deemed disinformation.
Even The Washington Post called out the claims of Buttigieg. In a Monday column, Glenn Kessler stated
“We decided to examine every possible regulatory change made under Trump that could be related to the accident and assess whether it could have made an impact. From our analysis, none of the regulatory changes made during the Trump administration at this point can be cited as contributing to the accident.”
At a time of tragedy, presidents ideally try to rally a nation to a common cause and shared suffering. They do not always succeed. However, cabinet members are expected to show complete detachment from politics in dealing with tragedies to assure the public that public safety is not being balanced against political expediencies. That is why this false claim is so serious. One of the first major statements made by Buttigieg at the scene was to attack the former president and the expected opponent to President Biden in 2024.
Buttigieg went off the tracks with this political spin. He should apologize.
He is the perfect face of this administration: Member of a favored group with no relevant experience for the appointed position, generally incompetent, uses leftist tropes to attack critics, ever accepts responsibility and finds a way to blame the Trump administration for every debacle while claiming credit for accomplishments won under previous administrations, and lies through his teeth on a regular basis. Pathetic example of our current government.
Some Democrats say the residents of East Palestine deserve to suffer because they voted for Trump. That’s about as ignorant a thing to say as I can imagine. A few Democrats such as Nina Turner (from Ohio) are pushing back against that claim. Here is a very short clip of her doing so:
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/preach-it-nina-turner-preach-it/
What is the problem here? All good and decent people know that the residents of East Palestine are nothing but “white trash” and deserve this because they voted for Trump.
Go ahead and just say it s@@tlibs.
antonio
Poor little man child Petie. His only talent is spewing verbose political nonsense. It doesn’t help him that he makes Alfred E Neuman look manly.
The only upside to the Biden administration is that it’s proving, in real time, that “diversity” and “inclusion” are disastrous policies. Let’s hope the next administration starts looking at competence and experience instead…and let the chips fall where they may.
GioCon – check out this 1:00 ad by Citizens for Sanity on the topic:
https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/this-ad-should-run-non-stop-in-2024/
Personally, I thought the comments by the Chair of the NTSB was a breath of fresh air. Straight forward, she knew her rules and she obviously had bothered to get the information to make a cogent decision and comment. Apparently she checked with no one and just came out with the facts. I care not whether she is a democrat or a republican, but she seems to show the aura of competence, which I always appreciate, no matter what the political persuasion. Beetlejuice, on the other hand, punched various slots or marked various boxes (your choice) but apparently competence was no where to be listed.
One last comment today. Beetlejuice moved to Michigan and now states that this is his official residence. He is no longer an Indiana problem. When the democratic Shaman looked at the sheep’s entrails they forecast doom for Beetlejuice in Indiana, hence the move. The rest of us Hoosiers bequeath him to any blue state that wants him or not.
GEB,
Congratulations to you and the Hoosier state. I bet the air smells a bit better, the sky a bit bluer.
This administration has consistently behaved like enemies of the American people. Mayor Pete simply continued in that trend. Yes, it is possible to address a crisis without actually being on site, but E. Palestine is probably a 45 minute flight from DC and considering that Pete has been roundly criticized for flying around like a rockstar on the taxpayer dime, showing up would have been a good look. Taking “personal time” as he did at such a moment was a thumb of the nose at suffering people. I’m not sure it wasn’t meant to be.
“She stated that the rule raised by Buttigieg would have applied only to trains classified as high-hazard flammable trains: “This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn’t have had ECP brakes.”
She stated,
“The ECP braking rule would’ve applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars.”
That’s false.
According to the NTSB report from Turley’s column it wasn’t 3 train cars. It was 20. That’s a big difference.
“The consist included 20 placarded hazardous materials tank cars transporting combustible liquids, flammable liquids, and flammable gas, including vinyl chloride.”
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/RRD23MR005%20East%20Palestine%20OH%20Prelim.pdf
The ECP is required on a train carrying 20 or more high hazard flammable materials.
It WAS a high hazard flammable train. Buttigieg did not make a false claim. Turley is wrong.
The train had the minimum number of flammable hazmat tank cars (20) that required an ECP.
You are correct. What does the head of the NTSB know about anything? I look forward to seeing your final report on this accident. Thank you.
The head of the NTSB was right. Turley is wrong.
This train was not classified as a high hazard flammable train when it should have. The NTSB report points this out when the train in question had 20 hazmat tank cars. Not only three that the other NTSB official stated.
“The consist included 20 placarded hazardous materials tank cars transporting combustible liquids, flammable liquids, and flammable gas, including vinyl chloride.”
I shouldn’t be, but I am in amazement at your claimed expertise in every subject imaginable. But then get it all so comically wrong.
From your sentence, that I chose to highlight, you get the facts wrong, because you need them to align with you predetermined conclusion.
There are Dozens of Placards. With those, hundreds of combinations. It is extremely complicated. EXPERTS are experts at using the manual to get the placarding correct. NO person can do it without knowledge of manual.
Where you fail is through your own ignorance. In the Rummsfeld scale, you are in the unknown unknowns. Its not that you lack the knowledge, but that you don’t even know the knowledge exists.
The train had 20 hazard placarded cars. (does not denote which of dozens of hazards where in how many cars. ONLY 20 total.)
The train contained ONLY THREE placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars.”
That means the “train” did not meet the number of cars needed to hit the threshhold for the “train”to come under the ECB
Illiterate, and innumerate.
Iowan2,
Thank you for bringing facts to the table.
Upstatefarmer, Iowan2 is wrong. The NTSB report says there were 20 tank cars carrying flammable and combustible materials. All flammable materials are required to be placarded as class 3. Only 3 of those had vinyl chloride. The rest had other highly flammable materials.
Vinyl chloride is shipped as a liquid under high pressure which is why it has a flammable liquid class 3 placard.
That train had other flammable liquids that classified it as a high hazar flammable train.
Iowan2, I’m actually certified in hazardous material handling. So yes I’m actually an expert.
“The train had 20 hazard placarded cars. (does not denote which of dozens of hazards where in how many cars. ONLY 20 total.)”
All the materials were highly flammable. All 20 placarded cars regardless of material have one placard denoting a class 3 flammable material. All require a red diamond placard classifying the contents as class 3 flammable. The type of material in the cars doesn’t change the fact that they are ALL highly flammable. That’s it.
The NTSB report said “consist”that’s a train to you. A consist is one train unit. The ‘train’ had 20 tank cars containing combustible liquids, flammable liquids, and flammable gas. Note that they are ALL classified as flammable or combustible. Meaning they can catch on fire very easily if exposed to sparks or other ignition sources. Those types of materials require a class 3 flammable placard.
3 of those tank care had vinyl chloride gas. That’s 3 of 20 class 3 flammable materials.
The threshold for requiring an ECB is a train or consist that has 20 or more highly flammable class 3 placarded cars. Any train that has 20 or more is supposed to be classified as a high hazard flammable train. A train that is classified as such requires an ECB. The railroad classified the train as a freight consist which didn’t require an ECB.
You’re the ignorant one here.
The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars.”
You are forced into a corner. Making up stuff that is not yet claimed.
The NTSB is clear. only three cars were Class 3 Flammable Liquids.
You need a source to support your face saving guess.
“The consist included 20 placarded hazardous materials tank cars transporting (combustible liquids), {flammable liquids}, and [flammable gas,] including vinyl chloride.”
Again more from the NTSB. The requirement is class 3 flammable liquid . Included were cars with (combustible liquids,) and [flammable gas]
Like all of your other claimed expertises, you dont even understand the nomenclature.
This with out bringing in MT’s actual requirements for thresholds needed to trigger ECB
Iowan2,
Pay attention to what you’re reading.
The NTSB report said, “The consist included 20 placarded hazardous materials tank cars transporting (combustible liquids), {flammable liquids}, and [flammable gas,] including vinyl chloride.”
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/RRD23MR005%20East%20Palestine%20OH%20Prelim.pdf
Read the report.
That’s 20 placarded hazardous materials TANK cars transporting combustible liquids (gasoline), flammable liquids, and flammable gas, including vinyl chloride. 20 tank cars. Not 3.
This statement came from NTSB chair Jennifer Homendy in a tweet BEFORE the official report.
“The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars.”
There were more than 3.
Liquid or gas doesn’t matter. What matters is that they are ALL required to be placarded as class 3 flammable. Because they are ALL FLAMMABLE. I will repeat what the NTSB report said.
20 placarded hazardous materials tank care carrying FLAMMABLE liquids and gas. 20, NOT 3.
This REPORT from Turley’s column issued February 23, AFTER NTSB chair contradicts what Homendy tweeted on February 16 that only 3 tank cars that were placarded.
Pay attention man.
Liquid or gas doesn’t matter
According to the Chair of NTSB is does matter. They are each separate categories. She would not have made such a precise message if not for a reason. That reason is the Rule governing the ECB.
I’m just taking words of the NTBS as they were delivered. You are forced to make assumptions to achieve your desired narrative.
What matters is that they are ALL required to be placarded as class 3 flammable. Because they are ALL FLAMMABLE.
But are they all Class 3 flammable liquids? By your statements, combustibles and flammable gases were also in cars.
But this is all your pedantry. arguing minutia that does not apply to the debate.
No matter what, the train did not meet the threshold to trigger the ECB rule.
Under this final rule, high-hazard flammable trains (HHFT) are defined as trains with 20 or more consecutive flammable-liquid rail tank cars or 35 or more flammable-liquid rail tank cars interspersed throughout a train.
https://www.iafc.org/iCHIEFS/iCHIEFS-article/new-rules-for-high-hazard-flammable-trains
“But are they all Class 3 flammable liquids? By your statements, combustibles and flammable gases were also in cars.”
YES!!
All flammable gas materials are shipped in their liquid state. Vinyl chloride is a gas in its normal state, so is natural gas, even butane, or propane. When transported by rail or truck they are compressed into their LIQUID state because you can ship greater volume in a smaller space. Which requires them to be placarded as flammable liquid class 3.
Just because they mentioned gas doesn’t not mean they meant gas in its normal state.
It DID meet the threshold. It’s right there in front of you.
“Under this final rule, high-hazard flammable trains (HHFT) are defined as trains with 20 or more consecutive flammable-liquid rail tank cars or 35 or more flammable-liquid rail tank cars interspersed throughout a train.”
Flammable gas is always transported in its liquid state when it’s not transported by pipeline. That’s why required to be placarded as a class 3 flammable liquid. When it’s transported by rail or truck or ship.
The chair tweeted her statement BEFORE the official report came out. She had no idea how many flammable hazardous material tank care there were. She said 3. BUT the official report that came out AFTER her tweet stated 20 tank cars not 3. A tweet is NOT an official record. The NTSB report is.
Ask yourself this question, how economical is it to transport a flammable gas in a tanker car? How much can you put in gas form instead of compressing it into a liquid?
“Iowan2, I’m actually certified in hazardous material handling. So yes I’m actually an expert.”
Being certified doesn’t make one an expert in all hazardous materials. Additionally, the expertise of most laborers like yourself is limited in scope and to only one or a few materials. Listening to you on this blog, one can’t call you an expert on anything.
In fact, you make me wonder about what happened. I understand it was the Norfolk trains that got into trouble. They have had a lot of Woke training and influence. Have they been hiring Woke workers like Svelaz instead of competent ones? Could they be at fault for the wheel problems? Could they have mislabelled the cars? One cannot know what happened, but when one hires those with poor skills lacking critical thinking, one permits incompetence which can cause harm.
“The ‘train’ had 20 tank cars containing combustible liquids, flammable liquids, and flammable gas. Note that they are ALL classified as flammable or combustible. ”
Go to the source and show us where it says 20 flammable cars that would be of the type requiring such care. Everything is flammable at high enough temperatures. The answer is unclear, but one cannot trust anything you say.
S. Meyer,
“Being certified doesn’t make one an expert in all hazardous materials. Additionally, the expertise of most laborers like yourself is limited in scope and to only one or a few materials.”
You have no idea what I do. How do you know I’m not an expert? You assume I’m a laborer? LOL!!
“Go to the source and show us where it says 20 flammable cars that would be of the type requiring such care. Everything is flammable at high enough temperatures. The answer is unclear, but one cannot trust anything you say.”
If you’re not going to trust what I say then why ask me to provide you with the source? You can find out for yourself. It’s very easy. OSHA has good sources. Try that.
The sources have been posted numerous times. Even by others. You should have no trouble finding what you need S. Meyer.
“Being certified doesn’t make one an expert in all hazardous materials.”
No, not all. Just the ones I work with, but I’m also required to be knowledgeable about the rules and classifications and what they mean. Most of what I deal with is class 3 flammable material. Corrosives, radioactive I and II. And all requirements for their transportation.
Ok, you say you are an “expert.” Now provide us with your CV. You can either provide a link to it, or provide all your experience and educational training, including degrees, certification certificates, continuing education certificates, work experience (including working for railroads handling hazardous materials) the number of times you have been qualified as an “expert in court.” Any response less than this is just BS.
Mah229,
I find it interesting that suddenly various commenters are experts in various topics the good professor notes on.
Suddenly they are experts on virology.
Suddenly experts in hazard materials.
Suddenly experts on Constitutional law.
Suddenly experts on, well, dang near anything.
Funny part is, as the fall out from COVID has shown, the so-called experts have been wrong on dang near everything.
” How do you know I’m not an expert? ”
All one needs to do is listen to your thinking process on the net. Expertise is more than a license to work for someone.
“You assume I’m a laborer? ”
Yes. If you wear a tie and have clean hands, you are no more than a laborer.
“If you’re not going to trust what I say then why ask me to provide you with the source? ”
Since you linked to the source, you should be able to quote from it. That was your source of information.
“No, not all. Just the ones I work with,“
Do you work with the chemicals under consideration? If not, then you are not an expert. If yes, you need to provide what makes you an expert other than certification.
“And all requirements for their transportation.”
That is limited to what you deal with daily. To date, you provide no evidence that you can classify the chemicals transported.
If your intellect matches what you demonstrate on this blog, you are more of a paper pusher of checklists. Though there isn’t anything wrong with that type of work, you are no genius or person I would trust.
Unless stated otherwise, the rule applies to “High-hazard flammable trains” (HHFT) which means “a continuous block of 20 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid or 35 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid dispersed through a train.”
Where does that summary you link to state the 20 cars were together? Indeed it states only 11 derailed and caused damage to 12 (not stated as hazardous) that hadn’t.
The secretary seems to know what she’s doing.
Mt,
Thank you for bringing facts to the table.
Mt, it doesn’t have to be a continuous block. It can also consist of multiple tank cars throughout the train.
“High-Hazard Flammable Train means a single train transporting 20 or more loaded tank cars containing Class 3 flammable liquid in a continuous block or a single train carrying 35 or more loaded tank cars of a Class 3 flammable liquid throughout the train consist.”
11 derailed, all tank cars the rest we can assume they were also tank cars. Most trains keep their tank cars together in a consist.
“The secretary seems to know what she’s doing.”
No, because she stated only 3 tank cars were placarded. That’s not true according to the official NTSB report. There were 20. All flammable and combustible materials MUST be placarded as class 3 flammable materials. The report noted 20 tank cars carrying flammable and combustible materials. Which requires the train to be classified as a high hazard flammable train.
You again misquote the rule. The rule applies to “high-hazard flammable trains” (HHFTs)—a continuous block of 20 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid or 35 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid dispersed through a train.”
The rule is not “20 cars” as you represent, but “a continuous block of 20 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid.” This was train did not consist of a continuous block of 20 or more tank cars.
Your statement and argument is misleading and false.
This from your link:
This information is preliminary and subject to change.
Anonymous, that’s standard phraseology in ALL NTSB reporting.
It means if further information comes along it will be added to the report.
This report already details how many tank cars with flammable hazardous materials were in the train. 20. That’s never going to change.
It’s all based on the manifest every train is required to have. If the manifest was falsified THEN the report would be subject to change. So right now it’s staying 20 tank cars, not 3.
Then butttigiegugier failed to have the so-obvioiusly bad rule because trump implemented changed. How hard is it to look at all trump did and not simply change it all – you could know less about transportation than buttigiugufier (no, no you couldn’t), and still know that organge man bad – undo….But he didn’t.
That is an even greater indictment against buttiguiegugier and the biden administration. That should have been job one.
But no. And now they cower in DC with the rest of the clowns, good and evil clowns.
It needs to be noted that under the 2015 Department of Transportation (DOT) rule high-hazard flammable trains (HHFT) are defined as trains with 20 or more consecutive flammable-liquid rail tank cars or 35 or more flammable-liquid rail tank cars interspersed throughout a train. The NTSB report does not say that all of the 20 placarded hazardous materials tank cars were transporting [flammable liquids] nor that any of them were placed consecutively. Except for the three that NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy notes, it is assumed the other 17 were placarded for other hazardous materials.
The train was indeed a mixed freight train and not a high hazard flammable train. If Buttigieg was a bureaucrat worthy of being a Secretary of Transportation rather than an obscure politician who merely had the position given to him, he too would have made the distinction.
https://www.iafc.org/iCHIEFS/iCHIEFS-article/new-rules-for-high-hazard-flammable-trains
There are placards for other class 3 hazardous materials. The one at issue here is the one for Flammable Liquids.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAZMAT_Class_3_Flammable_liquids
You stated, “According to the NTSB report from Turley’s column it wasn’t 3 train cars. It was 20. That’s a big difference.
‘The consist included 20 placarded hazardous materials tank cars transporting combustible liquids, flammable liquids, and flammable gas, including vinyl chloride’… The ECP is required on a train carrying 20 or more high hazard flammable materials.”
You’re misstating the rule. The Obama rule applies to “high-hazard flammable trains” (HHFTs)—a continuous block of 20 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid or 35 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid dispersed through a train.”
This creates two conditions precedent for the rule to apply, 1) the tank cars must be “a continuous block of 20 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid or 2) 35 or more tank cars loaded with a flammable liquid dispersed through a train.”
The 20 cars you cite were interspersed through out the train and were not a continuous block of “20 or more…or 35 or more …dispersed through the train” as the Obama rule requires. As such the Obama rule is not applicable on its face
Your statement of the “facts” and the “law” are false and misleading.
I did a shallow look at Mayor Pete. Wiki look.
What I found is a child of academics, good at book learning, and trained in ladder climbing. It is a picture of person not trained in any skills, and no experience to develop managerial talents. In short, a man that knows little and has done less.
He writes an impressive White Paper, using the talking points of the day, but implementing and executing initiatives, programs, etc. are far outside his ken.
Buttigieg is a progressive clown, and like all clowns – his progressive stupidity is meant as entertainment. Laugh at the progressive clown.
Buttigieg was right. Turley didn’t check his facts.
The train had 20 tank cars that were classified as high hazard flammable. The rules require an ECP in trains that have 20 or more high hazard flammable tank cars.
The tweet from the other NTSB official stated “only 3 placarded high hazar flammable tank cars were on that train. That was false according to the NTSB report that is linked in Turley’s column.
The train had 20 tank cars that were classified as high hazard flammable.
No. There were a total of 20 placarded hazardous cars. THREE cars placarded as Class 3 flammable liquid.
Iowan2, you idiot.
“The train had 20 tank cars that were classified as high hazard flammable.
No. There were a total of 20 placarded hazardous cars. THREE cars placarded as Class 3 flammable liquid.”
The train had 20 tank cars PLACARDED hazardous materials carrying FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS and GAS.
ALL of them had placards. ALL flammable materials MUST be placarded as class 3 flammable materials. Anything that’s flammable being transported MUST HAVE CLASS 3 FLAMMABLE PLACARDS. Whether they are liquid or gas is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that they are flammable and prone to catching fire if exposed to sparks or flame.
This is from the official NTSB report,
“The consist included 20 placarded hazardous materials tank cars transporting (combustible liquids), {flammable liquids}, and [flammable gas,] including vinyl chloride.”
Notice that all of them carried COMBUSTIBLE LIQUIDS, FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS, and FLAMMABLE GAS. All of those 20 were PLACARDED as CLASS 3. Not just 3. How do I know? Because ALL flammable materials are REQUIRED to have those placards when being transported.
I’m telling you from experience and the fact that I work with and ship hazardous materials all the time.
“I’m telling you from experience and the fact that I work with and ship hazardous materials all the time.”
No wonder we have such accidents. Svelaz says: ” I work with and ship hazardous materials all the time.” That means he is on the blog (and perhaps elsewhere) not paying attention to the hazardous materials he is responsible for.
Is this the type of person who is supposed to keep people safe? Does anyone believe he can?
S. Meyer, lol!!
I don’t deal with railcar amounts of hazardous materials. And it’s not all the time. It’s a monthly chore sometimes it’s a quarterly chore.
Read closer. My statement referred to my fears that people with your disposition and intellect are doing jobs above their ability.
Your statement proves a lack of intellect and is absolute proof you are not an expert in this disaster. It seems there is someone else in between you and placing a railcar on the tracks. Thank goodness.
S. Meyer you don’t know what I do.
You’re projecting YOUR issues onto me. I’m more worried about you.
Thank you. You confirm I hit the nail on the head,
Frankly shocked that buttiguguigier hasn’t been seen parading near E Palestine with his husband and baby (in a BabyBjörn), all in hard hats and with oxygen masks getting their hands dirty to make E Palestine fabulous, again. Of course we don’t expect pragmatic executive action from petey, but you figure we’d at least get an entertaining and heartwarming story of personal struggle and sacrifice in the face of incredible odds, otherwise what is the point of a pete buttiguguigier? Instead we get a lame, boring, whiney diva pointing the finger at orange man bad…pathetic.
He doesn’t need to be there and neither does president Biden. The NTSB has been there since the accident occurred. What is he going to do? He is just going to walk around and “sightsee” the wreck. It’s pointless. The president going there will disrupt the investigation and ongoing cleanup because the security around his presence will require that resources be moved or stopped to accommodate the security requirements for him to be there. It would be more disruptive than helpful.
Neither can go out in public because neither is competent. They cannot stand up to media scrutiny. they, like all on the left, are cowards and frauds.
It sure would have been disruptive when buttigifufured started taking more pics of reporters he didn’t like and biden was asked pesjky questions, like why are you drooling, what day is it, and when are you going to finish off the china war?
Sunlight disinfects, that is why they hide, like festering vermin.
Biden had the most votes of any human in US history, the people love him, his presence would bring joy and purpose to the beleaguered first responders and citizens, but no….because he is a fraud, like btuutttiggggeeg.
It has nothing to do with competence. There’s no reason for them to be there. All they will do is create a distraction from those working in the investigation and cleanup.
Trump went there because he is a publicity whore. He was hawking his Trump branded water instead of buying it locally. He was there for a photo op rather than out of genuine concern.
There’s no reason for either of them to anywhere. They are figureheads, empty figureheads. This isn’t a newism in politics, but the fact that they are completely incompetent, unable to handle themselves in public (at a minimum) show the shallow pool of talent that the dems attract. The intelligence agencies tried to fluff their gay operative, but alas his chances are derailed. Same with pocohontas before. obamma was the closest they could get and he wasn’t entirely theirs (for the worse for the nation, amazingly) so they’re not gonna let that happen again. the dems cannot attract talent because they can’t find anyone with talent that believes in their BS. Swalwell? Kobachar? LOL…
There is always a reason for pols to be at a tragedy, that is nothing new. You can take a GW Bush and make him a 90%+ positive rating after showing up in NYC and you think there is no reason to be there?
Beleagured Brandon needs all the help he can get, that’s the reason to be there, unfortunately he is a half-dozen working synapses to the good of fetterman and butttigugeies is, of course, a narcissistic empty shirt.
No reason to be there…lololol
Obama was just as culpable after the Deepwater Horizon explosion. He sat on his haunches for weeks because he wanted to cook those crackers down south. It took a media uproar to get him to finally get serious.
Now, apparently even the media wants the residents of East Palestine dead. That’s how bad it’s gotten. Just look at Joy Behar’s comments to East Palestine. She all but told them to drop dead.
Scott Adams is right. The real, hardcore systemic racism is on the left. It’s time to call it out.
I know a lot of people on this comment board think I’m a kook, but I’ll say it, again: this kind of attitude by the media, academia, and Democrats can lead to real conflict. Ignore it and see what happens.
Diogenes,
If you are a kook, then I am in good company. 🙂
Diogenes, you are not a kook. You are common sense, logic, and truth. The left wants to make sane people feel like they are insane. They don’t want to feel so alone in their straight jackets.
Gentlemen, you honor me with your defense. Thank you 🙂
Diogenes, you’re a “kook” to be sure. Like Newton was a kook and Gallileo and Copernicus and every other man who looked at the way things are and said, “maybe it’s not what it seems.” Kooks make the world move forward and in so doing become memorable.
Thank you, Mespo. It’s nice to have a kindred spirit out there 🙂
Buttigieg iwas picked not for his qualifications, pot hole Pete, as South Bend calls him, failure to fix the roads, he was picked because he fit the DEM’s Social agenda check list like most of the rest of Biden’s Admin leadership. Mayor Pete did not want to go and when he went he did not want to be there, just look at his face during the tour. He is a McKennzie Stooge. Biden and the Left Wing Social Justice Climate groups could care less. Biden Admin would prefer to fix Ukraine and give Billions of Dollars to Ukraine than help USA. The DEM’s in Ohio are going to ay a heavy price come 2024.
This event has exposed the entire area and other parts of Ohio, water/farm land and parts of Pennsylvania.
At Least the Washington Post did some real investigating as noted in Jonthan’s report.
Biden /Obama America last attitude.
I agree with the good professor and NTSB Chair Homendy: Why has this become political?
I think it was EconIsEasy who said something about talking about the accident was verboten.
Why try to point fingers in the first place?
That disgusting person Joy Behar even tried to suggest the people of East Palestine deserved the accident, they voted for Trump.
Buttigieg was right. Homendy stated that an ECP was not required because only 3 tank cars were high hazard flammable. That’s not true. There were 20. The rules require an ECP when 20 or more high hazard flammable tank cars are involved. This was a high hazard flammable train. It wasn’t categorized as such because the RR company didn’t want to spend the money on the system. Trump changed the rules that required trains carrying 20 or more hazmat cars to be classified as high hazard flammable.
Wrong again. The rule requires “20 continuous cars” or “35 cars or more interspersed throughout” the train.
Maj229,
Dang! Facts!
Thank you for bringing those to the table.
Buttigieg is a Democrat so what would you expect him to say?
Typically in these situations, we see the democrat preening in front of the camera with a backdrop of sufficiently diverse window-dressing with a pen in hand prepared to spend a gazillion dollars with the funneling of your tax dollars to their friends to attempt to fix this problem and saying orange man bad. The other thing they do is throw someone under the bus, like obamma did with McCarthy? after the Gold King mine disaster, and then funnel your tax dollars to their friends and get the press to memory-hole the event while rushing downstream to get the Navajo to sign-away their rights to complain about the matter, then to get other Indians elsewhere to complain about their water safety on a project the dems don’t like – tada!. obamma was pretty good, like slick willie.
Buttigugiegier has failed at every turn
I’d like to see some practical results. We’re 14.5 miles downwind from this on the PA side in Beaver County. So far we haven’t heard a word from anyone. No one has been here, there has been no air quality checks. My wife’s Penn State Master Gardener group has been inundated with calls about whether it is safe to plant this year, they have no info. I’t like no one outside of that initial one mile zone doesn’t even exist. I am beyond disgusted and frustrated.
CurrentSitGuy,
“I am beyond disgusted and frustrated.”
That right there.
Is this a local, state failure? A Federal one?
I took a FEMA disaster response course when I was a volunteer firefighter. IIRC the Incident Commander addresses the immediate problem/incident. Once that is secure, then look for secondary and tertiary effects. Looking downwind would of been a secondary effect in my book and sent someone with the proper background to the surrounding areas, like yours, to check air, soil and water quality. And check not just once, but for several weeks.
This seems like a fail on multiple levels.
Now we just got a call that our 3 year old grandson is being taken to Children’s Hospital with seizures and he is closer and more in the path.
CurrentSitGuy,
Not religious, but thoughts to you and family.
Not religious either, but I appreciate the sentiment. We just got back, waiting for all of the test results. They are looking for everything from effects from the derailment, to epilepsy, to a brain tumor. He’s only 3, so it’s not like he can tell us a lot.
CurrentSitGuy,
I cannot imagine the kind of hell you and your family must be going through.
Again, thoughts to you and yours.
Let’s see… We lost my mom December 1st. We lost my wife’s mom January 8th. Now this. The hits just keep coming…
CurrentSitGuy,
Dang.
I am sorry for your loss.
May it have ended on Jan 8th.
I note the left, even on this blog, has no concern for you or your family. I hope your grandson is OK and that whatever is happening is temporary. He will be in my thoughts. Please keep us informed about his welfare.
Also, let us know what the government does in your area and adjacent ones to help us understand the government’s response toward the communities involved in this disaster.
S. Meyer,
“I note the left, even on this blog, has no concern for you or your family.”
I find that rather chilling.
Like that disgusting excuse for a human being, Joy Behar, many leftists think they deserve it.
My experience with these types of people is too close for comfort. I know their capabilities from my relatives and firsthand without paying the price.
Listen to the hate, lies and deceit.
Vinyl chloride dissipates in the air. It poses no risk to areas outside the site, especially 14.5 miles out. However if it gets in the ground it does pose a more serious risk since it leaches into the ground and contamination to ground water is more serious. East Palestine’s ground water is being monitored. Hopefully they have removed any contaminated soil and equipment by now.
And that’s where my concern lies. I am concerned about the fallout and it’s effect on the soil. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of information about that, There’s plenty about inhalation, not so much about plant uptake and ingestion.
There is no fallout. It’s not heavier than air when it dissipates. It evaporates into carbon dioxide or hydrochloric acid. The dispersal area is too large to affect anything 14 miles out.
In the smoke are other materials and vapors that the gas mingles with, causing some of it to fall to the ground getting into our soil and water. Industry releases vinyl chloride into the air, causing some to end up in the water and soil.
This anonymous character, likely ATS, likes to think of himself as an expert and doesn’t consider all the other factors while he casually states a falsehood “There is no fallout.” The concentrations released are considerable, as are the risks. One shouldn’t listen to those that wish to close their eyes for political benefit.
The particulate matter has been tracked all the way to Canada.
You want to satisfy me? Test my soil for the presence of VOC’s.
Buttigieg is not an honorable man…he and his family should be embarrassed by his lies during an emergency.
“Vinyl chloride dissipates in the air”
When burned or heated to a high enough temperature, vinyl chloride decomposes to hydrogen chloride, carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and traces of phosgene. The train derailment was not an example of vinyl chloride simply being combined with air at room temperature or ideal conditions
Stick to trolling for DNC politics, instead of science, not that you excel at either
In the smoke are other materials and vapors that the gas mingles with, causing some of it to fall to the ground getting into our soil and water. Industry releases vinyl chloride into the air, causing some to end up in the water and soil. If your hypothesis was correct that would not happen.
This anonymous character, likely ATS, thinks of himself as an expert and doesn’t consider all the other factors while he casually states a falsehood “There is no fallout.” The concentrations released are considerable, as are the risks. One shouldn’t listen to those that wish to close their eyes for political benefit.
My above comment was placed under the wrong anonymous. Hopefully it will also reappear in its right place. but the anonymous above saying to ATS(?) “Stick to trolling for DNC politics, instead of science, not that you excel at either “ is correct.
Hydrogen chloride, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide are all gases. They don’t “fall out”. You exhale carbon dioxide. It doesn’t “fall out” of your mouth.
The black smoke is from the rail cars containing poly vinyl pellets. Plastic.
Democrats are PURE fascists….stealing power and money via their role in government while attempting to destroy Opponents USING government! The FBI, DOJ, IRS, etc are now 100% corrupt for Democrats
The only solution is to cut 50% of federal government and move 75% that remains in DC to the Heartland!
DC is LOST…TAKE Away the Power! Explain how Bidens made $100 Million Selling access to our government?
Agree 100%.
Our politicians have reverted to second grade playground level. Alas
but steal trillions while doing it! The endless flow of federal money to the most corrupt democrats states, cities, cronies continues to get worse! Bidens like the Obamas, Pelosis, Clintons, Reids, etc will leave with $100 Million+ for their troubles
Balanced analysis and commentary. JT did not blame Buttigieg for things that were not provably his fault. JT did blame Buttigieg for politicizing a tragedy.
Nevertheless, the desired effect was accomplished. They are very well aware that the larger part of their constituency are gullible dopes who will buy whatever they sell without a further thought. The plain truth, even accompanied by apologies, will have little effect in countering the effect of their reflexive, immediate lies. If they cannot convince, they must confuse the masses. In short, Trump bad. Trump always bad.