Below is my column in The Messenger on the early struggle of Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis to preserve her strategy of holding a mass 19-person trial over the 2020 election case involving former president Donald Trump. Not only are defendants scattering, but some are seeking to go to federal court where the trial would not likely be televised, as the Georgia prosecutors reportedly want. The hearing on the removal gave a glimpse into the case. Regardless of the ruling of the court, it is likely to be appealed.
Here is the column:
Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis appears in federal court in Atlanta today to fight for the ability to try her massive racketeering case against former President Donald Trump and 18 other defendants in a state court in Fulton County, Ga. Trump’s final White House chief of staff, Mark Meadows, has filed to remove the case to federal court due to his prior federal office and duties. There are good arguments on both sides of the motion.
However, more is at stake for Willis than a change of courtrooms.
Willis used a sweeping racketeering theory to snare Trump and others in an alleged conspiracy that is the aggregation of more than 160 insular acts, ranging from tweets to speeches to specific actions. Some of these individuals face tough charges involving alleged access to voting machines and other specific crimes. However, Willis is trying to hold together a case to try them en masse and in state court. As her defendants try to scatter, Willis will be running between federal and state courts to herd them back into one collective trial.
Trying 19 people in one case is never easy. It is like a potato-sack race with 38 legs and everyone moving at different paces. While linked in this alleged conspiracy, these defendants are loosely grouped together. Large racketeering cases are nothing new, but they generally are linked by more sturdy connections, such as an organized crime syndicate, or other more conventional criminal elements.
For some of the defendants, the framing of the case may be a greater threat than the alleged crimes. Collective prosecution can encourage a jury to mete out collective punishment. Willis clearly wants to paint all of the defendants with the same brush. That is more difficult if they are tried separately or in small groups.
Willis already faces two challenges.
First is the desire of defendants like Meadows and Trump to remove the case to federal court. Here, the political character of their alleged actions works in Willis’ favor. In his brief, Meadows concedes that “all the substantive allegations in the Indictment concern unquestionably political activity.” That raises an obvious challenge that the Hatch Act bars many political activities by federal officials and thus moves them outside of the official duties of figures like Meadows. However, White House chiefs of staff have always addressed political issues, from Capitol Hill to state legislatures. For a person with that portfolio, what constitutes a campaign matter and what constitutes an official matter can become blurred. Moreover, Willis’s inclusion of a wide array of actions and statements makes it more likely that some arguably official duties may be raised at trial.
Second, some defendants are not keen on being tried in gross. They are willing to give up the time needed to prepare a defense in exchange for putting themselves on a different trial schedule. Defendants like attorneys Sidney Powell and Kenneth Chesebro have demanded their constitutional right to a speedy trial, and Willis has proposed an October date. That is roughly five months before the proposed date for the mass trial.
The combination of defendants seeking speedy trials and those seeking removal to federal court could make Willis’s original strategy unwieldy, if not unworkable.
The division of the cases also could make the prosecution more fair for the defendants, since some of them could be prejudiced by a mass trial. Many are the type of low-hanging-fruit defendants that prosecutors often charge in the hope that they will cooperate to avoid financial ruin or potential incarceration. For example, Stephen Cliffgard Lee, Harrison William Prescott Floyd and Trevian C. Kutti are charged with attempting to influence Fulton County election worker Ruby Freeman’s testimony before the grand jury; Lee is specifically charged with traveling to Georgia and knocking on Freeman’s door in an attempt to influence her testimony. Likewise, other defendants like Scott Graham Hall are charged with seeking illegal access to voting machines.
The indictment does not establish particularly strong connections to such individual actions as part of this conspiracy. Yet trying them together allows the prosecution to give them a more sinister, conspiratorial patina.
Willis also faces the reality that, even if the federal district judge is sympathetic, the removal motions will need to be reviewed on appeal. They involve challenging questions over the scope of not just laws like the Hatch Act but the duties of federal officials like Meadows. That could place those cases on a different trajectory for months.
The trial courts will have to render decisions on major constitutional challenges, including free-speech claims, before trial. However, defendants are generally forced to go to trial before they receive a full appellate review of such questions; since they have not been convicted, it is often viewed as premature to render an appellate decision. These are certainly unprecedented cases that could prompt review, but the defendants cannot count on such an intervention. Yet, while the appellate courts may allow the criminal cases to proceed to verdicts, these severance and removal motions could result in more narrow reviews on the appellate level.
Of course, Willis is not the only person with a challenging calendar. It remains controversial that Willis waited more than two years to bring this prosecution just before the next presidential election. Trump potentially faces four major prosecutions in the District of Columbia, Florida, Georgia and New York before the 2024 election. Some trials are scheduled for just before major Republican Party primaries. In Washington, U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan has already indicated that the court will not treat Trump differently because he is running for office.
However, there is a separate due process question raised by the daisy-chained trial schedule. Even without a national political campaign, any defendant would be hard-pressed to prepare for all of these trials before the general election — and that is not even counting the civil cases pending against him. In one federal case alone, the government has 11 million pages of evidence that will have to be shown to the defense team.
It is often fun to debate whether someone would rather fight one horse-sized duck or a hundred duck-sized horses. However, the almost 100 counts now facing Trump in four different criminal cases are all horse-sized charges, and he has comparatively little time to fight them all in rapid succession.
Trump and his co-defendants must stand trial for these allegations, but criminal cases are supposed to be tests of evidence, not of endurance or exposure. Something has to give in this schedule — not in the interest of Trump, but in the interest of justice.
Jonathan Turley, an attorney, constitutional law scholar and legal analyst, is the Shapiro Chair for Public Interest Law at The George Washington University Law School.
Democrats have opened a whole new vista of lawfare in recent years, which presumably could come back to haunt them.
The Democrat House impeached Trump after he had left office, which presumably means the current Republican House can impeach Biden after he left office as Vice President for his money laundering, extortion using U.S. funds (the $billion for firing Shoikin), and tax evasion.
Now a Democrat prosecutor has put 19 people under a RICO umbrella, most of whom had no connection with each other and did not even know they were engaged in a criminal enterprise. That presumably leaves Biden, his family members, bankers and the “Big Guy’s” business associates joinable by RICO.
“Presumably” and “inevitably” are universes apart, but the basis is there for Republicans to do unto Democrats as Democrats are doing unto Republicans. The “do unto” is unlikely, to say the least, since most of the Republican Party leadership loathes Trump as much as the Democrats do, maybe more.
>”The Democrat House impeached Trump after he had left office,”
No, but you’re close. Iirc, the impeachment officially began Jan. 16, just 10 days after Jan. 6. I believe that’s why Turley calls it (the 2nd impeachment) a ‘snap impeachment’.
*Speaking of Jan. 6, Special Counsel Smith’s pending case and the 14th amendment .. .
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/secretaries-of-state-prepping-to-handle-trump-2024-ballot-challenges-report/ar-AA1fZAXM?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=dee690cab93142cebad2e18be36eaf9d&ei=7
“”We have to have a final certification of eligible candidates [for the primary ballot] by Dec. 14 for Arizona’s presidential preference election,” Fontes told NBC News. “And because this will ultimately end up in court, we are taking this very seriously.” story
Second impeachment of Donald Trump/Dates
Jan 13, 2021 – Feb 13, 2021
The same day, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi gave Vice President Mike Pence an ultimatum to invoke Section 4 of the 25th Amendment to assume the role of acting president within 24 hours, or the House would proceed with impeachment proceedings.
ROFL
NANCY THE INSURRECTIONIST
he was “impeached” on February 13, 2021, and removed from office, the punishment for impeachment, AFTER he had already left office.
While Turley brings up the Hatch Act… I wonder if he re-read it and considers that what Meadows is claiming falls within the Hatch Act.
(I did a quick read and for the most part. It doesn’t. ) The other thing… where does mens rhea come in to play?
Seriously interested your view here, bc I agree Turley has been suspiciously silent on all the Hatch Act screaming of late. Any thoughts?
I agree (though more strongly than Turley communicates here) that Meadows sb specifically exempt from the Hatch Act as CoS.
BUT, before any Court even considers the merits of that view, I would think that any FED “Hatch Act” issue could only be considered: IN A CASE THAT’s ACTUALLY IN FEDERAL COURT, NO?
IF SO, THEN HOW CAN THE HATCH ACT NONETHELESS BE USED TO BAR REMOVAL TO FED COURT WHERE THE FED REMOVAL STATUTE HAS OTW BEEN MET?
FURTHERMORE, DOESN’T THE HATCH ACT ONLY APPLY, PRECISELY WHILE AN OFFICIAL WAS ACTING UNDER COLOR OF HIS OFFICE, ie HE DID SOMETHING HE SHOULDN’T HAVE DONE WHILE HE WAS AT WORK?
I see so many other problems with Team Fanni (& many pundits) all suddenly & simultaneously trying to feverishly apply the Hatch Act as some kind of weapon against Meadows here (who I’m no fan of, btw), & I’m truly surprised that Turley isn’t addressing any of them, including:
1) In last weeks Ruling, Judge Jones listed the threshold requirements that Meadows would have to meet in order to eventually get the case moved to FED Court, and nowhere did Judge Jones even once mention that NOT violating the Hatch Act was 1 such requirement. How could the Judge suddenly add it now, then, as part of his Removal Determination?
2) Is the Hatch Act even a normal consideration for Removal? If not, has there been a single instance in US Case History where the Hatch Act was ever considered by a FED Court in deciding whether to grant removal to FED Court?
3) Wouldn’t any potential Hatch Act violation have to first be investigate by the OSC, per 5 U.S.C. § 1216 (a)(1)(2)? If so, then how can any FED Judge rule on it without the appropriate investigation, and without the appropriate persons or body having even made the violation claim?
4) Can a FED Hatch Act Violation even be raised by State Prosecutors as part of their case? Has this ever been done before?
5) Has the civil-remedy Hatch Act ever been used to remove color of office from someones alleged criminal actions, in order to also, eg, keep Immunity or other defenses off the table?
Just to clarify my views on some of the above, if it helps:
The Hatch Act is about making sure that officials dont do certain political things while they’re at work, precisely bc doing so lends “color of office”, and thus an air of authority or endorsement, to things like Campaigning for a specific candidate.
BUT, the Hatch Act only applies IF the Official is acting “under color of his office”, bc eg you can eg, campaign in your personal time; so it’s doing it while acting as an Official that is the action the Hatch Act seeks to prohibit.
Ergo, that Hatch Act would not at all seem to DENY that ‘color of office’ exists for prohibited actions listed within it; just the opposite bc you need that Color of Office in order for the Hatch Act to Apply.
Further, the Hatch Act does not seem to speak to any actions that are not enumerated within it. And this seems an especially important point where one has a criminal case, as the Hatch Act is specifically Civil Remedied in nature.
– Or, I’m wondering if someone can show anything differently, eg, is there a Case where a FED Court has used the Hatch Act to DENY color of office to acts that are either prohibited by that Act or those that are not? And if so, has it ever done so for REMOVAL? AND IF SO, why didnt Judge Jones mention this as a requirement Meadows must meet for removal?
Look for Willis to run for Governor the next cycle. It’s all about entitlement to the ‘brass ring’, now that the glass ceilings have been broken. It’s ‘they did it before and we can do it again’. Moral and ethical turpitude have no complexion, gender, sexual orientation or preference, sociopolitical or economic persuasion, religious belief, or place of national origin.
What if years ago the criteria for college and law school acceptance was merit, knowledge and test scores?
Fanni went to Emory Law. Make of that what you will.
Good news is, this incoherent rant won’t last long….
Thats it, work hard at hastening the inevitable, bug boy. Whining all the while LMAO
“unreasonable censorship.”
And once again comrade bug boy shows his true colors. LMAO, because “reasonable sensorship” is a thing on the left.
Oh look, we found some voting fraud.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alabama-gop-lawmaker-arrested_n_64ef3239e4b02f61505e3dab
Huffington Post
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.
“Look, I found some peanuts in the dung pile.. want some?”—-Sammy
I’ve never read either, smart guy.
Bwahahahahahaha….here, have some more peanuts. I wiped them off for ya.
I’m confused, was the story false? If it’s true, is trump going to go to court with this to prove he should be Prez? Oh wait, it was a Republican allegedly committing fraud.
Now I’m confused. I thought it was Babylon Bee article .. . but it’s seems “Republican Rep. David Cole of Huntsville was arrested on charges of voting in an unauthorized location, according to Madison County Jail records.”
*the crowd goes wild. .. and Trump’s poll numbers surge.
“I’m confused”—Sammy
That says it all.
Too funny.
The Gateway Pundit is hot on the trail of some stuff in Michigan which was caught and reported to Michigan Police which did investigate, and then the FBI which sat on it.
Seems that if the story tGP has found… has legs… then its a massive piece of evidence to support Trump.
Now while tGP is very biased… they did break a few stories.
-G
Re: ““Look, I found some peanuts in the dung pile..” After the 2018 vote in Florida, DeSantis fired the Supervisor of Elections in Broward County. The dung in the peanut pile!! Find out why!!. There’s more like her elsewhere out there. Then Florida established an election fraud division in the State government. In 2020 Florida was done counting long before Georgia could get its fingers out of their asses. Find out why!!
What ever happened to all these constitutional protections lawyers keep bleating about?
Why is some revolutionary black DA looting our system of justice by putting the entire previous administration on trial, while her black brethren are out wondering why people run when they see them?
Normal people are wondering why turning our court system into a BLM hit squad is suddenly treated as if it were normal. A “nation of laws, not men”? There goes one more wive’s tale down the tube.
“Not only are defendants scattering, but some are seeking to go to federal court where the trial would not likely be televised, as the Georgia prosecutors reportedly want.”
The fact that Georgia prosecutors want the trial televised should be the appellate court’s first clue that prosecutors are engaged in Abuse of Process, if not malicious prosecution. They are looking for a POLITICAL impact from the prosecution, not a judicial impact, and seeking a political impact is contrary to the legitimate purpose of criminal prosecution. It should be a no-brainer for a court of appeals to remove this case from the local Georgia state jurisdiction and envoke federal jurisdiction as the first step toward maintaining the integrity of the judicial system and preventing this rogue prosecutor from turning a criminal trial into a political circus.
Well said Ralph
“The fact that Georgia prosecutors want the trial televised” Really? Fact?
I might have missed it, when did she say she wants the trial televised?
LMAO at the bug boy…different Tom, DA
Could you link where there is a video of Fani Willis saying this?
Here’s another lefty that needs video.
“Show me the video of Zlovchevsky handing Joe the money!!!”—-New Guy Tom
I gues I’ll have to change my name to Tommy, so the little bug boy can tell us apart in his delerium.
So there isn’t proof? But wait, if trump said it then it’s true. because everything trump says is true. He is just like Pinocchio and cannot tell a lie. So point out where trump said she wants it televised and I’ll believe it. Fact? My hind end.
“So there isn’t proof?”
Exactly what I said, you catch on quick. No video? No proof!!
Next!
There appears to be some confusion regarding this issue. Perhaps that’s why Turley wrote that “Georgia prosecutors REPORTEDLY want” the trial televised. The issue seems to have been mis-reported by Raw Story as follows:
“Fulton County Judge Scott McAfee on Tuesday issued an order allowing media organizations to televise the trial of former President Donald Trump and 18 others for alleged election interference.”
https://www.rawstory.com/trump-trial-televised/
But the order itself — or at least the portion of the order available via Twitter — doesn’t actually say that the TRIAL will be televised, but appears only to say that the arraignment or initial appearance will be televised:
The proceedings that the undersigned desires to record commence on August 23, 2023 through September 8, 2023.
https://twitter.com/BrendanKeefe/status/1694066984294535435
That appears to refer ONLY to the arraignment, not the trial — although I can’t think of a reason that the arraignment would be televised but not the trial. I expect this confusion will be cleared up within the next week or so.
Professor,
Great article.
I like how you point out both sides having their pros and cons in the situation.
Thank you.
Upstate, decent and smart people like you appreciate what Professor Turley offers in his writings and observations, it is the partisan hacks of the left that come here to attack the very site they comment on 200 times a day. People like you and I would never to to a CNN or an MSNBC site and comment all day long and attack their base and hosts because we are normal people who don’t have a need to deliver hate to 90% of the people visiting a site.
Conservatives avoid places they dislike, liberals try to shut down places they dislike. Now, who are the fascists?
“Conservatives avoid places they dislike, liberals try to shut down places they dislike. Now, who are the fascists?”
I missed it where liberals are trying to shut down libraries and teachers talking about slavery and LGBTQ+ issues. Could you please point out where this is happening?
Drag Queen story hour at the library is not an LGB issue. But the freaks couldn’t leave well enough alone.
Hey Liberal, when theaters keep kids out of XXX movies does that equate to “shutting down theaters”? Keeping porn out of kids libraries isn’t shutting down libraries and you know it.
Liberals have tried to shut down Hannity, Tucker, Laura, all of Fox News, Twitter after Musk bought it, the NY Post during the election, any conservative speaking on any campus, any Jew or Israeli speaking on any campus, Clarence Thomas, etc etc etc. In fact losers like “Anonymous” comment here 200 times a column as a way to try to ruin the comments section of this great site. Read my comment again, conservatives DON’T try to obstruct liberal sites, we ignore them.
HullBobby,
I read the good professor’s column for what it is.
I do not try to read his mind and then make some really wacky comments of what I think the good professor is thinking.
Well said.
It seems to me that the RICO charge is absurd. It depends on the participants knowing the recorded election result was lawful and organising to overturn it nonetheless. If Trump and the others believed the recorded election results arose from fraud or otherwise from the counting of illegal votes, or even if they suspected that could be the case, organising to discover the truth or change the results could not violate RICO.
Nor is it a crime to use data that turns out to be incorrect in efforts to persuade, except in very limited circumstances. For example, in the Georgia call, Trump and Cleta Mitchell were using data that the legal team had put together based on publicly available information. Raffensberger said he had non-public information that showed Trump and Mitchell’s claims were wrong, yet he would not show Trump’s team that information. There was nothing criminal about that call, which concluded with an agreement that the lawyers would meet to see if some additional information in certain categories could be provided, to help resolve the dispute.
Perhaps there were isolated cases of attempted witness intimidation or data theft, but these should sit on their own bottoms. They should not be used to give plausibility to a spurious RICO claim.
I think the country has something to say about this massive attempt to nail Trump, while the President responsible for the murders of a million innocents (no SOL) remains free to pursue his lustful desires all expenses paid.
How is it acceptable in a democracy that the most heinous criminal in America was given a hundred million dollars for putting in print his role as a filthy lying scum/president and is out of jail, presently, far from the maddening crush of a rabid mob of anti-American fools
Dear Prof Turley
On the contrary, I suspect before this case is done (burp) someone is going to have to take a load off Fani And Expand the RICO racketeering charges to include the entire Republican and Democrat criminal political syndicates.
It’s the only way to be sure .. . root hog or die.
*”Large racketeering cases are nothing new, but they generally are linked by more sturdy connections, such as an organized crime syndicate, or other more conventional criminal elements.” ~ Turley
I feel like Turley’s columns, however well-intentioned, lend credibility to this Theatre of the Absurd that the so-called justice system has become. This whole thing is a travesty. Debating how many defendants can dance on the head of a pin is counter-productive. Turley must decide whether he is on the side of justice or on the side of his party affiliation, and post accordingly. There is no sitting on the fence when it comes to a show trial in the United States of America, particularly when the “crimes” in question are thought and speech crimes.
How bizarre! Her abuse of power is breathtaking and purely political. It is now a race to the bottom.
Let Fani’s Follies begin !!!
Democrats love show trials in kangaroo courts! They are Fascists!
Fani seems to think this is the Nuremberg trials and she is chief prosecutor for all the Allies. She thinks they are the top Nazi’s in the US and this is her chance to achieve history. Just a small problem is they have killed no one, her party is the anti-Semitic group, and they were contesting an elections as they are allowed to do. What she fails to realize is that her persecutor status is more akin to the chief prosecutor during the Reign of Terror, or even better yet she may be considered akin to the prosecutors who accused Alfred Dreyfus and tried to silence him because he was the wrong religion and they wanted to protect the real spy (who was a favorite of the governments) who spilled the beans to the Germans.
Talk about lack of self awareness, Fani is thy name.
C’mon man
Joe’s list of most intelligent people:
1.Hunter Biden
2. Ketanji Brown Jackson
3.Kamala Harris
4.Fani Willis
5.Dennis
Comrade Garland
Fani is a good Fascist…. She is doing ZERO of the work. Ask Marc Elias how it is really done!
“It remains controversial that Willis waited more than two years to bring this prosecution just before the next presidential election.”
This is the biggest lie repeated by Republicans and Fox News. It took this long because witnesses fought tooth and nail before appearing before the grand jury and because of Georgia’s two grand jury requirement. Think of what it took to get Lindsey Graham to testify who appealed to the Supreme Court before being forced in to speak. Republican delays is what caused the timeframe.
The other big lie is that Judge Chutkin in DC planned to start her trial just before Super Tuesday. There is no date that wouldn’t be near some special date on the political calendar. Whatever date was chosen would elicit an uproar from those claiming the date was selected to persecute Trump, otherthan 2026 that is.
And why would you have a problem with 2026? Was the 6th Amendment speedy trial clause written to protect you, or Fani?
If Trump was a rapist (oh wait, he is) would you expect his victim to wait five years for the hope of justice? The entire country was victimized by Trump’s crimes, you’ll never read in a Florida schoolbook that “Justice delayed is justice denied.”
That you believe the nonsense that Trump raped anyone, and no cases were filed for 30 years, until Trump got into politics, shows your level of intelligence.
There is more than one complaint that has been filed including one from a then 13-year-old. I have no trouble believing Trump raped someone because he thinks he can, and a jury agreed.
“I have no trouble believing Trump raped someone because he thinks he can, and a jury agreed.”
What jury would that be?? Now you don’t want to be just wrong, you want to be a liar as well?
https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-trial-columnist-carroll-4974ef026f3da61bc6f1b7ddda3ad10e
WTF is that? A link to an article about a case that proves you’re a liar?
Nice job!
So you think this jury doesn’t think he’s a rapist? He lost $5 million this time and is facing judgment for up to another $10 million because he can’t stop lying.
“So you think this jury doesn’t think he’s a rapist?”
Think??? I know.
If they did, the would have found him liable for the rape. Duh
go here and see for yourself, instead of reading some hack job of a news article about what some judge had to say about what the jury meant. Jeezus Christ dude, do you say this crap out loud…it might help.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/05/09/jury-verdict-form-e-jean-carroll-defamation-trial-00096059
The first question on the jury report:
Q. “Did Ms Carroll prove, by a preponderance of the evidence that Mr. Trump raped Ms Carroll?”
A. NO
Enigma, a couple of years back, claimed Donald Trump was a racist because his father, Fred Trump, was supposedly at a KKK rally where there were both supporters and protestors. That occurred 20 years before Donald was born.
Enigma is known prevaricator and liar. He also engages in racism, but I think most like to call it reverse racism. He cares a lot about people that have been dead for generations but doesn’t give a damn about those children being killed in the streets today. His record is not pleasant.
To clarify, the above comment is from a different Concerned Citizen.
You should have stood with the other concerned citizen because many thought in the interim you grew a brain and now were starting to make sense.
“many thought in the interim you grew a brain”
How many besides you live in an alternate reality where people spontaneously “grow a brain”??? (oh yeah, 81 million lmao)
Donald J Trump on tape “I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. … Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.”
Ok, does that make him a rapist? We’ve seen Joe Biden sexually assault women and girls on video.
I’ll use your own tactic….where’s the video of him doing it???
“If Trump was a rapist (oh wait, he is)”
Having not been convicted, or even charged, of any such crime, wecan all see your version of justice on display.
Don’t feed the trolls or let them hijack the thread or they will kill this special little site.
“would you expect his victim to wait five years for the hope of justice?”
I would expect to wait a lot longer than that if I was a black woman raped by a black man in Fulton County
Why is that? What source are you citing? If the rapist was known, I don’t believe it would take five years to come to trial, why do you?
How about NEVER come to trial. I know the woman, big mouth.
If you’re talking about a specific instance, what are the reasons it never went to trial? I might be just as upset as you are. Why did you inject race into this conversation, I didn’t?
I’m not going to discuss that here due to privacy concerns. She may yet have her day.
Only you are allowed to inject race???
I mentioned that because she is convinced that if she were white, she would have already had her day in court. I don’t know.
I do know this, black men in NYC, who domestically assault black women, are waaaaay less likely to be charged and prosecuted than white men who assault white women. I will try to find the study, but I also have first hand knowledge of this.
I’m not disagreeing with you about unequal justice, I’m trying to understand what point you’re making in this conversation about Trump?
I’m not going any further down this particular rabbit hole with you. My point was that Fani don’t give a shit about justice. I know this from first and second hand knowlege.
I’ve made other arguments to support that assertion.
Enigma, do you have any inkling, at all, that you have been lied to and freakin’ brainwashed by the media you listen to?
Because you got the super deluxe brainwash, with added wax.
As the saying goes, there is a whole lot you think you know, that just isn’t true.
You must be one of those in the poll that said they trusted Trump over their pastors, teachers, etc. You can’t believe Trump and complain someone else has been brainwashed.
Like I said, you got the super deluxe brainwash, with wax.
And you don’t even know it…..
You believe Trump and call me brainwashed.
That’s correct, yes.
Now you be sure to keep up on all the news about Robert. L. Peters, and all his lies, plus his other fake names, plus his fake companies, his wire fraud, his money laundering, and all the ‘laundered’ tens of millions going tax-free into a dozen Biden family members’ personal bank accounts…ya here?
I’m up on all the allegations, along with the lack of proof. How many times has someone promised evidence, in the same vein as Trump’s private detectives in Hawaii, that never comes forward. Isn’t there now a new tape that will be released in a few weeks that will be Biden’s downfall. Don’t you get tired of people lying to you?
Sort of like the old cop & robber TV shows where the criminals would all shout to the detectives, “You can’t prove a thing”….
“lack of proof”…..really? The evidence is all over the place. RICO case open and shut.
You are just repeating Joe Biden ‘story’…..and he’s sticking to it…..
Like when he laughed and asked reporters, “So where’s the money? No no, I’m just joking.”
Or Joe’s other favored line, “There is not one scintilla of evidence that my son ever did anything wrong.”
There’s more than enough evidence to throw Joe Biden in prison for the rest of his life, right next to his son.
Why do you think the impeachment inquiry hasn’t begun yet. Because nobody has produced actual proof. Telling me there’s proof and providing it are two different things.
“Don’t you get tired of people lying to you?”
Like the AP lied to you about Trump being guilty of rape???
I notice you had no reply to the JURY REPORT.
Maybe you’d like to take over for Gigi
How many oil fired power plants are there in the US, and how many are in Texas?
What was the inflation rate when Trump left office?
Who exactly, did the FBI get Hunter’s LAPTOP from?
Who does the DCNG work for/with (all parties)?
Who is Amos Hochstein and what is his connection to Hunter and Joe Biden?
Did Joe know that Hunter was on the Burisma board? And did he want Shokin fired becuase he WASN’T investigating Burisma?
Why was Hunter cc’d on an email to the VP regarding his scheduled phone call with the Ukranian President?
You are really triggered today, maybe it’s the thought of your idol going to jail.
If you want to see what a real RICO racketeering criminal organization looks like, you need look no further than Joseph R. Biden, Jr. and his family’s global shakedown, bribery, money laundering operation.
You just described the Trump family , projection much?
Honey, the Trump family has done NOTHING like what the Biden crime family has been doing for decades.
Like I said, you have a super deluxe brainwashed brain that has overdosed on the drug called CNN*MSLSD.
“You just described the Trump family”
How so, specifically?
If you don’t already know, I don’t have time enough to explain.
Enigma says: “You just described the Trump family , projection much?”
OMG. Can you really NOT see how much you are being lied to by the propaganda fake news?
The Trump family has real businesss….
They build office buidlings, they build hotels, they build golf courses and restaurants….
They have CUSTOMERS who stay at Trump hotels and enjoy the services offered by Trump businesses.
Jared and Ivanka also had actual businesses and did nothing illegal in conducting their businesses or they would have been charged with crimes.
THAT is what Trump family has been doing and NONE of it is criminal activity.
OTOH…..we have Joe Biden…..who as VPOTUS actually used several fake names in emails to shady foreign actors, where he cc’d his son Hunter on government communications….
Hunter then conducted his ‘business dealings’ which was shakining them down for millions in exchange for “influence” provided by his father, then VPOTUS…..
VP Joe not only used fake names to conduct this ‘business,’ he also used fake shell companies to receive money in ways that it could be hidden, so the Biden family could evade paying taxes….
Said money was then laundered into Joe Biden’s own granddaughter’s bank accounts!! and his daughters-in-law accounts, amongst other family members …all receiving large deposits of laundered foreign cash.
This is actual criminal activity. It is how the mafia, and mobsters operate their “business dealings.”
And in exchange for the tens of millions (upwards of $50 million dollars to date!!!) paid to Biden family members, for what? What did VP Joe Biden do with US foreign policy to the benefit of said foreign actors?
THAT is what Biden has been doing and ALL of it is criminal activity.
Lock him up and throw away the key….
Trump University and the Trump Foundation have already been shut down because of fraud. The Trump Corporation may not be far behind. The dollars you attribute to the Bidens don’t come close to Jared alone, not to mention all the rest of the Trumps.
“Trump University… shut down because of fraud.”
Not true. The first set of lawyers realized there was no case and walked away. The second were ambulance chasers, knowing Trump was running for the Presidency. They settled for a small amount, got their fee, and walked away. Justice was not served on Trump or the plaintiffs. The attorneys benefited from legal extortion.
Everything you say here and elsewhere is almost always a lie.
“”For years, President Trump refused to compensate the victims of his sham university. His reversal in 2016 —and the large-scale settlement that resulted — opened the door for student victims to finally obtain the restitution they deserve,” he said. “My office will continue to hold those who commit fraud accountable, no matter how rich or powerful they may be.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/federal-court-approves-25-million-trump-university-settlement-n845181
Are you lying only to me, or yourself as well?
I can help an ignorant person get to the truth, but I can’t help an arrogant ignorant person.
If you research the case you will find it was dropped by the prior lawyers. Ambulance chasers knew they could pocket some money for themselves, so they did. It was a time Trump had to settle.
These are contract disputes and everything one needs to know is within the four corners of the contract. The rest is based on the law.
“The dollars you attribute to the Bidens don’t come close to Jared alone, not to mention all the rest of the Trumps.”
OMG Enigma is a lost case….Jared had an actual business. He was not charged with criminal activity.
Show us any actual EVIDENCE that ANY Trump businesses were funneling MILLIONS into fake shell companies, evading taxes, and depositing bribe money into bank accunts of his grandkids, and every other member of his family….thru hidden bank accounts…? Show us any evidence of this kind of criminal activity. You cannot.
What Biden has been doing is called bribery….he has been selling his high public office, selling out his country, selling U.S. foreign policy…. to our adversaries!!….for the sole purpose of ENRICHING himself and his entire family.
Joe Biden is a despicable criminal and sellout and the country KNOWS it.
The Bidens have NO business BUT selling Joe’s political office to the highest bidder.
And Joe Biden has been flatout LYING to the American people about everything for 50 years.
The Trump businesses and charities didn’t funnel money anywhere, they were always the recipients.
Enigma, I know this is difficult for you to understand, but people earn money buying, selling, and servicing others. That is a part of capitalism. Don’t confuse that with bribery, extortion, and money laundering. Those are the illegal acts of Biden.
Trump charities didn’t funnel any money to the recipients, and no one said they did. Every dime spent by the Trump charity went to a charity, and the expenditures and names were filed with the IRS. That you are stupid about 501 c 3 foundations is a known fact. You don’t have to continually demonstrate stupidity.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2018/01/12/new-filing-shows-eric-trump-raised-millions-lied-about-his-foundations-expenses/?sh=6d0f3a1d39ed
That happened > 5 years ago, and nothing happened. Do you know why? Because nothing they did was wrong. This doesn’t involve DJ Trump’s foundation. It’s Eric’s.
When one provides a charity with goods and charges below market value, exchanging money for goods necessary for the charity, it is legal and proper.
Joe Biden’s problem is he exchanged thin air for money, selling America down the drain.
You can’t understand that? The only response I can provide you is that you need to go to school or read. If you want an understanding of how 501 c 3 foundations work, we can have an honest discussion, but I don’t want any of your BS. Tell me why you think something was illegal.
You’ll run out of excuses long before I run out of examples of Trump family fraud.
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/07/777287610/judge-says-trump-must-pay-2-million-over-misuse-of-foundation-funds
I recollect that the fundraiser raised just under $6 Million with about half going to the foundation and the rest collected directly from the donors.
There was no question that the money ended up in the hands of the veteran’s groups.
What is your complaint?
I.m going to go with the Attorney General of New York and the court records vs. your recollection.
Enigma, the court records say something different than you, and the attorney general knows you are wrong.
Now is your time to prove me significantly wrong since I base what I say on a recollection. You won’t do that because when you research the question, you will find that you are entirely wrong. As usual you will run away with your tail between your legs.
https://www.aol.com/news/trump-inflated-net-worth-2-185136617.html
Values of personal wealth are poorly estimated.
Who knows more? As an example, no one would buy MAL for a very low price. Today everyone realizes it was a steal. You sound like the Indians who sold Manhattan for $24.
How could you be a realtor without understanding how values are created?
As a Realtor, I’m well aware it’s illegal and fraudulent to lie about the value of assets to obtain a loan or get a better interest rate. How is it you don’t know that?
It is fraudulent to lie that you own things you don’t, but rendering an opinion about the value of one’s property is not a lie. It is an opinion.
As a realtor, you should know that, but you are ignorant of most things, so no one is surprised you know so little in your own field.
Do you think a bank loaning $300 Million doesn’t have an evaluation done for them? How ignorant can one be?
Is this your recollection which seems to be where all your facts come from. People have testified that he purposely inflated or deflated values to get a loan or pay less taxes. He’s a liar and a cheat which caused Trump University and the Trump Foundation to bite the dust. The Trump Corporation may well be next and sooner than you think. FYI, he threw Eric Trump under the bus because he’s that kind of father.
Enigma, you are running around like a chicken with its head chopped off. That is why you bring up so many different items.
“People have testified that he purposely inflated or deflated values to get a loan or pay less taxes. “
Let’s take one item at a time
You live in Florida where you pay taxes on your home. If you say your home is worth half of what it is, do your taxes go down? Does it affect your federal taxes? We will start here and gradually move forward.
I’ll let the New York AG explain it to you. Here are two exerpts and a link to the document on the background regarding Trump’s fraud.
Trump International Hotel and Tower, Las Vegas, Nevada
Mr. Trump has a 50% interest in a joint venture with Philip Ruffin in a hotel
condominium tower in Las Vegas, Nevada. Prior to 2013, the statements omitted Mr.
Trump’s 50% interest in the property because, for tax purposes, Mr. Trump asserted
that the property had no value. Mr. Trump repeatedly submitted lower property valuation
estimates to Nevada tax authorities and higher property valuations on his statements.
For example, in 2015, the Trump Organization submitted a $24,950,000 valuation to
contest taxes being levied by Nevada tax authorities. That same year, his statement
showed the property valued at $107,732,646 — a value the Trump Organization
reached using fraudulent methods.
Trump International Hotel & Tower, Chicago, Illinois
Since 2009, this property’s value has been excluded from the statements because,
according to sworn testimony, Mr. Trump did not want to take a position that would
conflict with his contention to tax authorities that the property had become worthless,
and thus formed the basis of a substantial loss under the federal tax code. However, in
2012, using the building or its components as collateral, Mr. Trump and the Trump
Organization obtained a $107 million loan on the building from Deutsche Bank. The loan
received a $45 million expansion in 2014. Mr. Trump’s supposed net worth of $4 billion
reflected in his statement was used to personally guarantee the initial loan at an interest
rate approximately four percentage points lower than it would have been without his
guaranty.
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf
“Trump Organization submitted a $24,950,000 valuation to contest taxes being levied by Nevada tax authorities.”
This isn’t being done in the dark. Trump has a right to contest the taxes levied just like you do if you think the property appraiser valued your home too high, making you pay higher taxes. If they decide against you, nothing criminal will happen. That is what is under discussion, criminality.
You are taking things you do not understand and making them complicated. If Trump doesn’t declare income or neglects to report tangible property, there is a legal problem, but that is different from an opinion of what a property is worth.
Let’s get to my question and work things out logically, keeping things simple.
You live in Florida where you pay taxes on your home. If you say your home is worth half of its assessment, do your taxes go down? Does it affect your federal taxes? We will start here and gradually move forward. You can add more detail, but you will not get to the point where an opinion of property value is criminal.
Meyer explains to the obtuse one: “Enigma, I know this is difficult for you to understand, but people earn money buying, selling, and servicing others. That is a part of capitalism. Don’t confuse that with bribery, extortion, and money laundering. Those are the illegal acts of Biden.”
But the obtuse Enigma INSISTS there is NO PROOF that Joe Biden did anything wrong! Don’t you see the crimes of the Trump family are far, far worse than the Biden family bribery, extortion, money laundering for which there is NO PROOF?? (sarcasm ON)
And the worst part is Enigma is EXACTLY the mentality of jurors in DC. They are brainwashed to the point of ignorant stupidity. Trump will be convicted in every trial BECAUSE of brainwashed dum dums like Enigma. They simply cannot see beyond Orange Man Bad. Guilty as charged! It’s sick what the Democrat fake news media lying has done to these people. They’re truly sick in the head, every last one of them.
It has to be said that the utter stupidity of blacks like enigma who are obviously being exploited, used, lied to, and abused by the corrupt Democrat party, yet will come to The Party’s defense, no matter what, are the ONLY reason why democrats remain in power…. and blacks like enigma are why juries in every major city across America are the stupid brainwashed idiots that Democrats can always count on to carry their water. Just disgusting. The obtuse, righteous, ignorant stupidity of blacks like enigma who defend The Party that exploits us is beyond pitiful.
And there it is… I knew it was in there somewhere.
“And there it is… I knew it was in there somewhere.”
You always find what you’re looking for, doll.
PS I’m black too, just not stupid like you.
So is that fool under indictment in Atlanta that thinks he was the last to get out of jail because he was Black. It didn’t have anything to do with having assulted an FBI agent trying to serve him a warrant earlier.
Diamond & Silk used to have a segment on their show called the “Big Bowl of Stupid.”
Got to say that every time I read an Enigma comment, I can’t help but think “this should be put in the Big Bowl of Stupid.”
Sorry to be so critical, but you need to hear it till it sinks in, baby doll. You really do.
Bless your heart, which one of them died from COVID because she wouldn’t get the vaccine or wear a mask. She joined the club with Herman Cain.
“Big Bowl of Stupid”, Enigma, this is more proof that almost everything you say is false. You are a wealth of misinformation.
She died of heart disease due to hypertension. There was no mention of Covid as a cause or contributing factor on her death certificate. You suck up the MSM without any thought and then render stupid opinions.
I wonder what will be on your death certificate. Will the primary cause be S……?
Unlike yourself, I have no problem saying I was mistaken. At least my recollection is of things that were actually reported. Herman Cain did die of COVID shortly after appearing unmasked in a crowd at a Trump rally. I had met Cain before his right wing radio days and played golf with him and a friend while he was at Godfather’s Pizza. He was very nine and I enjoyed the afternoon.
“Unlike yourself, I have no problem saying I was mistaken.”
You made another mistake in your comment. I generally thank people when they correct me. Your problem is that you refuse to research your mistakes, so you don’t know they exist.
It must be very frustrating for you, as your mistakes are almost as frequent as your postings.
Herman Cain did die of Covid, but had he avoided that crowd and used a mask elsewhere, he might have had the same outcome. Plenty of people who took all precautions died from Covid.
Yeah, he probably got it somewhere else. Your hypothetical suggesting he wore masks elsewhere has no basis in fact, just your overactive imagination.
https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/GettyImages-1221533223.jpeg?w=1581&h=1054&crop=1
Enigma, you missed understanding the hypothetical. That I have to interpret this for you is shameful.
My comment suggested that if Herman Cain complied with all Covid recommendations, he might still have died from Covid.
Many people who died wore masks and stayed away from crowds.
However, Cain was a high-risk individual and fit in with those who died from Covid. He was in his mid-70s and had late-stage colon cancer that spread to the liver. The 5-year survival rate from that with today’s treatments may be 30%. He had chemotherapy and likely surgery in both areas. Based on the history, we can assume he was immunocompromised.
He lived life and was continuously around people, including a Trump rally. Where he got Covid will forever be unknown. He lived a life without spending it looking backward like you do. He was brilliant and a great man.
The picture you wanted us to see was very nice. Today’s picture would show many more black people in the crowd as they leave the Democrat Party. They have had enough of you and your friends.
I missed that you provide a hypothetical and insert it for reality. He was a high risk individual that acted stupidly for one with those risks. Many people got and spread COVID at that event.
Enigma, you missed my hypothetical, statistics, and probably life constantly looking backward in the rearview mirror.
Cain was one of those where the recommendation was to isolate. He didn’t and lived in the fashion of his earlier 74 years. You say he acted stupidly, but he made a difference.
The Georgia state law concerning speedy trials requires a defendant be tried no later than the end of the succeeding court session.
LMAO, OK Wally, I see now why you typically go with superfluous questions about air conditioning and such. You might want to stick with that approach and leave the real conversation to the adults.
Irony is never recognized by the left, is it?
“These things take time”—-The state
“We need to do this right away”—-The state
You aren’t arguing the fact that Republicans and Trump dragged this out. Maybe you can’t handle the truth?
No I don’t argue that. It’s their right. As is their right to due process, which includes time to prepare a proper defense. Nice try straw man.
It was their right, but how can they then complain the prosecutors delayed the trial to coincide with the election season. This process began well before Trump announced.
I said nothing about their complaints about the length of time it took Fani to get off her fanny, straw man. I took issue with your insinuation that 2026 was too long.
And I asked you to justify that. Instead of doing it in terms of how long it might take for 19 defendants to prepare for a trial with millions of documents and hundres of witnesses, you brought up some BS analogy about a hypothetical rape case in which the suspect is known. Straw man arguments are easily assailed. You might want to try a different tactic.
I did say something about Turley complaining about the timing of the investigation, it was my primary point and I called Turley a liar for making it. If you want to change the subjecty, say so.
When you make superflous comments, that have no basis in logic, expect to be called out for them.
I don’t disagree that the complaints about Fani’s timing are unfounded.
However, she doesn’t make her case that it’s not political, by insisting on an unreasonable trial date.
Willis didn’t set a date until forced to according to Georgia law when one of the defendants requested a speedy trial. In the DC case, Trump lawyers showed no interest in suggesting a reasonable date after being given several opportunities. They are in the unenviable position of having to please their client (and hope they get paid) instead of doing the best they can for their client. They could have had input into the date but chose not to. The constant attacks on the judge by their client isn’t helping them, he was told to STFU or face an earlier date which is what he’s getting.
So it looks like the lawyers are doing their job. Cutting Fani off at the knees, some requesting speedy trials and some rightly arguing that they need more time. I guess that RICO plan wasn’t so brilliant after all?
We’ll have to see how this plays out. I think the early trials will produce a steady flow of information about Trump’s efforts to upend the GA election well before Trump goes to trial. If an early trial of Sidney Powell proves the conspiracy, how will that help Trump?
Again, obfuscating instead of answering the question, which was to justify your insinuation that 2026 was too long. My last divorce took 2 freaking years. Do you suspect it was more complex than this, or that there was more at stake??
Hint-one defendant demanding his 6th amendment rights does not “trump” another defendants 6th amendment rights. It’s quite frankly a clever tactic that poor Fani never saw coming. RICO!!!!
What makes you think Fani didn’t anticipate all of this? She’s done RICO cases before, she responded immediately to the first request for a speedy trial and said bring it. I see the latest filing as an attempt to get everyone on the record instead of waiting weeks/months to make a request and cause delays. It’s the defendants right to want to delay (because the facts won'[t clear them) but it’s her right to speed things up.
“he can’t appeal the date. It’s set”
So you’re going to gag yourself on the word “appeal” as well. Or did you read that in the same rag that Enigma gets his info.
Motions will be made, and they will have merit. What a judge decides remains to be seen. My money is that Trump’s trial does not occur in March 2024.
“What makes you think Fani didn’t anticipate all of this?”
Uh, because she’s incompetent. And I’m not even talking about her claim that she “don’t know how all that computer stuff work”.
“The date Willis wanted was too early,”
Thanks for agreeing with me. I guess we’ll have to disagree on her motive.
enigma… you make the point very well.. that the defendants should be given adequate time to prepare their defense since the prosecutors took such a long time to do their case…i.e., the millions of pages turned over and thousands of recordings require ample time…
“The entire country was victimized by Trump’s crimes”.
Really, why don’t you explain to us how it directly impacted your life (you poor little victim)?
Show of hands
Who here feels they were “victimized by Trumps crimes”?
Let me see here,
First what crime?
Secondly, during the Trump admin, he did not start any wars or proxy wars.
Third, my 401k was doing well.
Fourth, my over all economic status was doing much better as he put more money into my pocket with his tax cuts. A good friend of ours in a higher tax bracket with no dependents or other tax havens had to pay out.
Fifth, up until COVID life was pretty good.
Sixth, recall when Congressman Tom Cotton wrote an op-ed in the WaPo calling for the deployment of NG troops to reinstate law and order during the 2020 fiery but mostly peaceful Summer of Love? The left lost their $hit. The WaPo editor got fired for “allowing” the op-ed to be published. A few weeks ago the DC city council wanted to declare an emergency in order to get NG troops deployed to restore law and order. No wonder so many first time buyers of firearms are minorities and women. Good for them! This trend of increased crime and lawlessness is a result of soft on crime DAs, no cash bail and Democrat policies in Blue cities.
Seventh, inflation. Went up in July. According to the USDA food prices are expected to continue to go up through 2024. Food prices went up 4.9% Y-o-Y. That is a silent tax on the lower 90%.
Am I victimized? Economically, yes. But it was not by anything Trump did.
And reading news about some calling for to reinstate mask mandates, social distancing, vaccines, I would call that a greater victimization of the nation than anything else. Fortunately, We The People are pushing back.
“but it’s her right to speed things up.”
Yikes. OK comrade.
Yet another useless post by the little bug boy that won’t see a sunset.
By the way, does anyone know the difference between wrong and wildly wrong?
LMAO
I see Enigma has the same MO as Gigi…disappears when his lies have been exposed,
So are you saying that judge chutkan didn’t plan to start her trial just before Super Tuesday?
I’m saying there was no date she could have chosen that didn’t conflict with something that Republicans would complain about. Justice shouldn’t revolve the defendant’s preferences, he would prefer no justice at all.
In the words of the late, great Robbie Robertson, “Take a load off, Fani!!”
No doubt the aggregation of charges, spread out over 4 different prosecutions, creates a legitimate excuse for the former president to demand the time necessary to mount a defense — on top of which there are those civil cases —
Donald Trump’s Trial For Election Interference Set To Begin In Time To Interfere With Election
https://babylonbee.com/news/donald-trumps-trial-for-election-interference-set-to-begin-in-time-to-interfere-with-election
Even the Bee can see it is for what it is.
How can Willis have a show trial if she can’t get to parade the hollow eyed Trotskyites before the cameras every day?
Ti317…..thumbs up
Are all Georgia state prisons air conditioned? Asking for a friend.
I guess you figure by now everyone’s forgotten your previous ignorant statement that they were not. Tell your friend not to worry, Fani has been hard at work emptying them. She’s not much good at adding occupants.
“That Fani gonna show ’em how it’s done down heah in Jawja”—Dennis
LMAO
If it were up to Democrats NOBODY would have air conditioning OR ceiling fans.