Rep. Summer Lee (D., Pa.) has long been a voice for censorship, attacking those who seek to restore free speech on social media. Lee’s curious view of free speech was on display this week when she attacked witnesses, including Riley Gaines, as hateful and transphobic but then tried to censor Gaines when she responded to Lee’s attack as misogynistic. Lee withdrew the demand to take down the comments, though it captured the essence of how many on the left insist that they have a right to attack others but seek to censor those same individuals when they respond in kind.
In the hearing on transgender students competing in sports, Rep. Lee launched into attacks of the witnesses: “Madam Chair, I ask that while we sit through this hearing and the hateful misinformation I’m sure is coming our way, let us not forget the children at the core of this issue.”
Gaines, who achieved fame as a college athlete after racing against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas, responded to the attack. She testified:
“Of course, there is a place for everyone, regardless of gender identity, regardless of sexual orientation, regardless of race or what sports you play. There’s a place for everyone to play sports in this country. But unsafe, unfair and discriminatory practices towards women must stop. Inclusion cannot be prioritized over safety and fairness, and ranking member Lee, if my testimony makes me transphobic then I believe your opening monologue makes you a misogynist.”
Lee then pounced and demanded that Gaines’ remarks be struck for “engaging in personalities” rather than the substance of the debate: “I move to have the gentlewoman’s words taken down.”
What followed was hurried consultation and presumably a few explanations for Lee on why witnesses are allowed to respond to such attacks by a member. Lee then withdrew her demand.
Rule XVII, clause 1(b) prohibits Members from engaging in “personalities.” That is a rule cited to the Speaker or chair to bar personal attacks from other members that are deemed unparliamentary. There is no definition of what words are considered to be violative of the rule.
However, Lee was attempting to use this against a witness who was defending herself against her own personal attack. It is a dangerous extension. Members of Congress generally are protected under the “speech or debate” clause in Article I, Section 6, of the Constitution. The privilege protects legislative proceedings and generally does not apply to news releases, speeches and other public comments. This was the holding in Hutchinson v. Proxmire, when Sen. Proxmire was found to be acting outside of the clause in making media comments regarding his golden fleece award.
Members often knowingly make defamatory comments in congressional debates, but then decline to repeat those same words in public to avoid any legal accountability. I faced that tactic in representing Dr. Eric Foretich in the Elizabeth Morgan controversy. Members would make false and defamatory claims about my client on the floor, but would carefully avoid repeating those claims in interviews. My challenge to the Elizabeth Morgan Act took years before it was struck down as an unconstitutional Bill of Attainder. However, we could not bring a defamation action due to members using the Speech and Debate Clause as a shield.
That would create a nightmarish combination if members are protected from actions in defaming witnesses but then can censor them when they defend themselves.
The fact that Lee’s immediate response was to censor a person who she had just attacked is telling. After labeling Gaines a hateful bigot, Lee did not believe that she should be allowed to denounce Lee’s own comments as an attack on women.
It shows the slippery slope of censorship. Democrats have embraced an anti-free speech agenda to silence opposing viewpoints. That desire becomes insatiable even as citizens seek to rebut personal attacks from members in a congressional hearing.
My reply never appeared.
As a 40+ years as residents of Pittsburgh, my wife and I are ready to move out of Allegheny County,
which has been taken over by far left wing carbon banning tax and spend socialists who disdain
freedom, capitalism, hard work, honesty, white people, Israelis, Donald Trump, Republicans and
American greatness.
I moved from a very blue state to a red state and I have never been happier. Well, maybe I was happier when I was in my 40s and not my 70s, but that is not a political statement.
You know what? Even being 70 as compared to 40 I am happier. It doesn’t hurt that I was working like a nut at 40 and these days I exercise, shoot some billiards, read my sites (like this great one, Thank you Professor Turley), I read great books, I either cook or go to dinner and I NAP. Sadly due to Democrats and liberals today’s 40 year old folks won’t have the America that we are losing today.
I want to post this at the top so everyone can see how exasperating it is to try to discuss anything with Svelass.
She actually made both of these statements IN THE SAME POST.
“It’s funny how Turley loves to conflate criticism as an “attack”. Because criticism is somehow unbearable so Turley characterizes it as an “attack”.”
“I never understood why witnesses in congressional hearings aren’t more forceful when they seek to rebut a personal attack”
Read on down to see the rest of her ridiculous attempt at an argument on the subject.
Actually ‘jimmy’ the reason you want this post on top is because you’re a Russian troll and your job is literally to drown out opinion that your bosses have deemed problematic to their strategic goals.
The Democrats are shameless and have become unhinged. Personal attacks are all they have left. They cannot argue facts because they live in the upside down world. Their sense or reality is gone. All they have left is the State media broadcasting 24/7 propaganda. What scoundrels!
It is interesting – for much of my life it was said that Republicans have a messaging problem – that their ideas are good but Democrats are better at charismatic public expression.
Yet as I look arround today Nearly all democrats and the entire left is shrill paranoid harpies who make no sense.
I read the polls – I look at what americans want, and ask Why Trump is not beating Biden 70/30.
Because of the peer pressure propaganda of course. The liars and cons and smart asses and deep state.
Same MO over and over, their position’s are weak so shout down, attack character, accuse you of what they’re going to do or have done. Free and open debate is poison to the Democrats.
so if I put Black Face on…then I am black?
Because growing your hair and putting a women’s bathing suit makes you a woman?
the GUY Thomas should be JAILED for FRAUD!
claiming to be a woman when DNA test show you are a MAN…is PROOF HE IS LYING!
transphobic….meant you PASSED Biology.
Democrat Party is the PARTY OF HATE
Voting Democrat 60 years…will deliver Camden NJ
Democrats are Fascists….the Democrat Party is backed by people who WISH TO DESTROY America and the WEST! There is NOTHING GOOD in the Democrat Party!
Vote Democrat at this point is JUST PURE EVIL!
Can you tell us how you really think?
So a politician calls a private citizen a name, gets called a name back and then cries foul? Sounds about right. One has to wonder what would happen if this politician did not have the bully pulpit and had to go one on one with the private citizen. She lost the opening salvo.
Funny thing about rules, they actually matter and the fact this politician does not know them says much. Trying to strike out a statement because she was offended but was OK to make an offensive statement herself says again much too.
“The fact that Lee’s immediate response was to censor a person who she had just attacked is telling. After labeling Gaines a hateful bigot, Lee did not believe that she should be allowed to denounce Lee’s own comments as an attack on women.”
***********************
Typical Dim tactic: Accuse the speaker of being what you already are. So tiresome.
Ironic hypocrisy as a result of their ignorance of their own ignorance. An encapsulated description of anyone prog/left/woke. It is frightening to think of such indoctrinated tools having any power over anything other than their own toilet.
Whenever I hear Lee speak in the hallowed chambers of Congress, sounding like some crack-ho, yapping at her peeps in the bathroom of the local bar, I am filled with disgust.
But then, Joe Biden is the best we could do, in a country of 330 million…
She was born in 1987 (I always look up ages in these instances, be it academia or government or industry). A very large swath of her generation seem to be fundamentally incapable of becoming adults, the ‘adulting’ classes just didn’t take. 40+ should not be required to serve or vote, but I am sure thinking it would be a smart move. All of us have become surrogate babysitters, and it’s way past being annoying. These folks are not smart or insightful, and they do not possess the developed faculties to become those things.
I do not see anything in her or similar but the same churlish immaturity over and over again at an age it should no longer even be a reflex. You can’t argue with a barking dog. This was bound to happen when these individuals began to ascend in society. Just my two cents. If we are governed by the (and I’m being generous) mentality of teen agers, we can reasonably expect commensurate results from that governance.
“Laws me thee, but not for me.” This is the mantra of the modern Democratic Party.
Rep. Lee puts on display the kind of low life politician she is, dishes out trash, then when Gaines has not only the bravery but the on the spot intellect to throw it back in Lee’s face.
Good for Gaines.
She has not only the bravery but the grit, the determination to fight the good fight. This is a woman of integrity, principle, decency and common sense. I hope she becomes a inspiration and an example for young girls and women everywhere.
For what it’s worth, I generally hate the 5 minute q&a format no matter the witness or questioner. Not a fan of the “reclaiming my time” phrase as well….
However Turley’s use of the Russian propaganda tactic of accusing D’s of censorship, while wholly ignoring the R’s who are MUCH more for active censorship is just so hypocritcally laughable.
And sorry Jimmy/tommy/clue midget/ estovir…, no time to care what your juvenile mind is spinning up. You and your love of boogers will just have to desecrate yourself today.
Of course, “Anonymous”. Just proved James’ point.
Hahaha. And that wasnt me that said that, you little booger eating kunt.
Thanks for clarifying, comrade.
However Turley’s use of the Russian propaganda tactic of accusing D’s of censorship, while wholly ignoring the R’s
You intentially ignore a judges ruling outlining the massive campaign of censorship directed by the Biden Administration.
You ignore a full on censorship campaign in Florida.
Curating educational material is not censorship.
No matter how many times you tell the lie, it will never be true.
Iowan, they call removing Deep Throat from a kiddie library as censorship. The call demanding that teachers not tell a 6 year old child that he may be a girl as “don’t say gay”.
The left are the fascists, Florida is a free state!
Iowan@ and HullBobby,
Well said.
They keep repeating the lie over and over again and again.
Or if they actually believe what they say to be true, then they are clearly delusional. But than again, if you cannot define what a woman is, or thinking their are more than two biological sexes, that pornography in elementary schools is okay, you probably should be seeing a whole team of psychiatrists, heavily medicated, not allowed to operate heavy machinery, not allowed to reproduce, not allowed to own real estate and not allowed to vote, as you are clearly not of sound mind.
Active book bans in Florida, 1500 plus since 2021. Besides, just on general principle, censorship involves ‘curating content’. The fact you rely on this deflection tells me everything I need to know about you.
By your definition every library is banning books, even your own. That tells us you do not understand what you are saying. You brain bans common sense.
Now here is where your flagrant idiocy shows through. Both you and Iowan are disingenuously trying to confuse the terminology…
Curating content doesn’t necessarily mean censorship, but censorship definitely involves curating content.
But why would you know this when you’re both just rehashing fox talking points?
Rather than trying to deflect with talking points, why don’t you pick just one of the over one thousand books banned in florida since 2021 and try to make a case why it wasn’t banned?
“Curating content doesn’t necessarily mean censorship, but censorship definitely involves curating content.”
Let us go back to your library. You have only three books over a lifetime.
Are you curating or censoring? When you are finished making yourself look more stupid, you can get back to the discussion and answer the question, are you banning books in your library?
Your the one ignoring the question as usual. Standard fare for when you get out over your skies (and I’ve yet to see you not get out over your skies on any subject because you have serious cognition problems).
Pick a book that’s banned in Florida and explain why it’s not banned.
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/more-than-350-books-banned-in-florida-schools-since-last-july-16817328
There are no books at all banned in Florida
You can go to amazon and buy any book you want.
You probably can find it on google books.
What you may not do is take a school library that typically has about 14,000 total books, or a school classroom library that typically has 50-150 books, and Force those books peculiar to your ideology into those libraries.
The library of congress as an example has 160M books.
With limited resources and a focus on the dritical skills that kids have needed for centuries to fucntion as adults, It is not necescary to include child pornography in the schookl library.
Join your twin, ATS. Ignoring the question is what you did. You changed the word from ban to censorship and curating. You are not in charge of your intellectual senses. Go back to the bottle.
And just for kicks with your idiotic hypothetical, what library only has 3 books??? A foundational charecteristic of libraries involves having big collections of reading material, sometimes massive. So, while you were clearly fooled when someone tried to pass off your hypothetical on Fox news, it’s actually incoherent.
Iowan: those books have been banned from school libraries, as is made explicit in the link. But, no doubt, you haven’t read it
I read your comment.
You are Mr,Pedantic, I’m just responding to your words
The larger point, parents have zero impediments from providing any content they want for their children. Even having the North America Man/Boy Love Association, mail them free content.
“what library only has 3 books??? ”
You are as stupid as they come. ” your library. You have only three books over a lifetime.” That was the statement made, but I should add all of those bindings have yet to be cracked open.
With three books, are you banning, censoring, or curating?
They are likely copies of Gender Queer and Lawn Boy, but that is fine because it is your library. Are any of the books by Trump? No. Do you think you are engaged in book banning?
It would be better for all if you spent your time learning rather than making a fool of yourself on the blog.
“books banned in florida”
Why dont you define that phrase or stop using it.
A book, or books, that are banned. Here’s a list from Florida. Pick one and share how it isn’t banned inside your fever dream…
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/more-than-350-books-banned-in-florida-schools-since-last-july-16817328
The books are available in every county in Florida. Every home in Florida can order the book from any online entity.
If the parents are not financially able, they can get any of the books on the list from, the North America Man/Boy Love Association free, no shipping handling.
So no. The books are not banned anywhere actually
“A book, or books, that are banned. “
Are you that stupid, pr just being obtuse?
Banned from what???
If i said you are banned in florida, have i said a goddam thing?
Banned from what. The whole f-ing state?
Admit why you dont want to answer.
The answer is right in the link you gave. So stop saying books banned in florida, liar.
Jimmy estovir: perhaps read the actual link I provided as to the specifics in florida book banning…, notice the link says banned from schools. Reading comprehension is a good thing.
Iowan: those books have been banned from school libraries, as is made explicit in the link. But, no doubt, you haven’t read it. Standard fare for you. Unless Bannon speaks it it doesn’t count right?
“perhaps read the actual link I provided as to the specifics in florida book banning…, notice the link says banned from schools.”
For f*cks sake, if I had known I was replying to you bugface, I wouldn’t have even wasted my time. You’re a hopeless idiot. Too stupid to recognize you just made my point. Its “books “banned” from schools in Florida”, not “books banned in Florida.”
If you want to act like a retard who doesn’t understand the distinction and how it relates to a genuine discussion, I can’t help you.
It’s called gaslighting.
Schools MUST curate content – it is NOT optional. There is only so much time in the school year to educate kids regarding what matters.
I would say that tough choices must be made – but the choice between teaching your pre-teens using porn. and teaching them math is not tough.
Regardless, Schools have ALWAYS Currated the material they teach. You merely disagree with Florida’s decision to focus on the basics, not woke nonsense.
It is not and never has been censorship to tell teachers they are not free to teach kids whatever they want however they want.
Much of the material that has been “banned” – is obscene, is child pornography – that in my blue northeastern state could land a parent in jail and have they register as a sex offender for life if they shared with their teenager – much less with pre-teens and younger.
If you looked at the list of books banned it *might* keep you from foolish posts like this. But you are yet again proving your cognitive deficiencies…, so you are probably a completely lost cause.
That is empty rhetoric. A sign of ignorance.
Excuse me for laughing maniacally at this post of empty rhetoric. ^^
There is no censorship campaign in Florida.
Outside of school, kids, parents, teachers are all free to say what they wish.
Schools are not a public free speech forum.
Teachers are hired to teach a curiculum not whatever they damn well please.
Johny can not read or do math – When public schools can deliver the basics of education they were able to do 50 years ago – we can discuss the amoutn of time to devote to peripheral topics and at what age to deal with them.
A school that can not produce graduates that can read, write, and do fundimental math – does not have the luxury of time for gender studies.
The purpose of public schools is to educate students in skills they actually need as adults – if you want more – send your kids to private school or home school them. What you do not have the right to do, is to demand that all students waste precious time on what you want taught to your kid.
Thanks for personally reassuring me there is no censorship in schools in Florida, however the sheer number of books banned there tells a quite different story. Censorship isn’t just about controlling speech.
But hey, you’ve assured me it’s all good so no worries, right?
Thing is the standard deflection from the right around the active censorship and it shows the right knows what it’s up to and they’re trying to cover it up. Strangely, their base is all for censorship and they wouldn’t penalize them for just coming right out and admitting it openly. My sense is if they did guys like you would change your tune and actively admit what they’re doing and verbally support those efforts.
Yes, The average school library in FL – as well as the entire rest of the US has “banned” 99.9992% of the books in the library of congress.
You are the one deflecting.
Your argument is patently stupid. You are demanding to engage in political cultural and sexual indoctrination in publis schools,
And calling it censorship when you are not free to do so.
We do not call it censorship or banning that 3rd grade teachers do not teach calculus.
Or, you can go back to eating boogers.
You clearly do not live in the real world.
That ‘real world’ is one where trump wins the ’20 election by 10 points and an odd blip in sun Ray’s is the cause of climate change, right Johnny? You’re a clown.
Just as a general rule, I don’t think I would care to get in a word tumble with Riley Gaines. She seems to more than hold her own in any confrontations. I applauded her labeling the congressperson as being misogynistic. How characteristic of the left that they want to censor someone who throws their smears right back into their face. I am also thrilled to see the women of the US and especially in sports start to speak out and refuse to compete against male losers who just want participation trophies anyway they can get them. This nonsense needs to end.
Gender Dysphoria Disorder is a mental health issue and responds to time, passing puberty and psychological and psychiatric counseling. Reinforcement is the worst thing you can do. It is nice to see malpractice suits starting to be lodged against physicians and groups of physicians who rush their patients into these gender altering surgeries with out first point out the simple fact that between 80-95% of these cases resolve with no surgery at all. That would be like rushing a child to tonsillar removal without first treating with antibiotics and time. Thats why tonsillectomies are rare. Children died from the surgery and careful studies showed that the immune system remained more functional and intact with tonsils rather than without.
Now I want to see how the school district in Colorado deals with the discovery by parents of 9 year old girls being forced to share rooms and beds with male students professing to be female on overnight trips. This, of course, was done without telling the parents or children before hand.
GEB,
Well said.
GEB: Awesome post! 👍👍
Anonymous in Madison, WI. (This town is more woke than a night watchman in a Folgers factory).
Lee withdrew the demand, though it captured the essence of how many on the left insist that they have a right to attack others but seek to censor those same individuals when they respond in kind.
That’s the essence of the lefts ‘free speech for me but not for thee’ philosophy.
At its core, the left knows by experience, it loses every single open debate on the facts. Their only option is, lie, then silence others. Representative Lee is only repeating what she has seen modeled by her heroes.
𝐎𝐍 𝐓𝐎𝐍𝐈𝐆𝐇𝐓: GOP Debate – The two-hour debate will start at 𝟖 𝐩.𝐦. 𝐄𝐓
𝐅𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐑𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐛𝐥𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐜𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐢𝐝𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐟𝐚𝐜𝐞 𝐨𝐟𝐟 𝐢𝐧 𝐓𝐮𝐬𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐨𝐨𝐬𝐚, 𝐀𝐥𝐚𝐛𝐚𝐦𝐚, 𝐨𝐧 𝐖𝐞𝐝𝐧𝐞𝐬𝐝𝐚𝐲 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐭𝐡 𝐝𝐞𝐛𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝟐𝟎𝟐𝟒 𝐩𝐫𝐢𝐦𝐚𝐫𝐲.
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie will all appear on stage together for the last time before next month’s Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary.
By: Tal Axelrod ~ December 6, 2023
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/5-things-watch-latest-republican-debate/story?id=105394509
What time is the Republican debate?
The two-hour debate will start at 8 p.m. ET on Wednesday. It’s being moderated by NewsNation’s Elizabeth Vargas; Megyn Kelly, host of “The Megyn Kelly Show” on SiriusXM; and Eliana Johnson, editor-in-chief of The Washington Free Beacon.
NewsNation says the event will air on its website and streaming platforms. It will be broadcast live on The CW network in the eastern half of the country and tape-delayed out West. NewsNation has been soliciting audience questions via an online submission form.
The Republican National Committee has partnered with Rumble — a video-sharing platform popular with some conservatives — to livestream the debate.
Bill Ackman’s response to the three clown-chicks’ testimony is interesting, “In short, they (ed. 3 c-c) said: It ‘depends on the context’ and ‘whether the speech turns into conduct,’ that is, actually killing Jews,…”
If that is in fact the essence of what they said, I think I support the 3 c-c’s opinion. I know that may be anathema to groups like MADD and other pre-crime criminalizationists, but if you do a before/after analysis, where is the actual harm, the quantifiable damage? Moreover, in this case calling for the death of ‘the Jews’ moves them more further out of the oppressor class and more closer to/into the victim/oppressed class, which can be considered a benefit, nowadays. Being considered the victim/oppressed has been a decades-long position held by a few groups seeking benefits for the perceived oppression of others that share immutable characteristics, but not a shared oppression/victimhood. Because of that, I think the 3 c-c’s are upholding free speech.
That being said, the 3 c-c’s reliance on DIE and affirmative action is wrong for the same reason, but in reverse – the benefactors are not the aggrieved and the aggrieved are not the perpetrators, so that crap is totally bogus.
Ironically, had the 3 c-c’s not relied on the later, they may not have been debating the former, but that is another article.
These institutions, as a matter of routine, suppress and censor viewpoints that offer alternative arguments counter to the Leftist agenda. A speech by a sitting Secretary of Education was interrupted, and drowned out, by a mob of students and faculty members from Harvard. UPenn blocked Dinesh D’Souza lecture when the university revoked the venue days before the event. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) disinvited Dorian Abbot, geophysicist and associate professor at the University of Chicago, from a speaking engagement for prior comments he made regarding affirmative action, he disagreed with the practice, which the Supreme Court agrees with. No, the 3 university presidents are wrong, and so are you. Is it that difficult to break with the Left that a normal person finds himself compelled to agree with the mob?
So if they suppress one thing they must suppress all things? Are you saying there is a requirement that they suppress equally – is that on a per incident basis, a per potential hearer of the suppression, or some other measurable metric?
Look, IMO, you can argue that what they did in the past is wrong and I’d support that, but you cannot, again imo, normalize that kind of wrongness when it suits you. Two wrongs…etc etc.
I’m no leftist, but I am liberal, a Trump supporting, FJB hating liberal.