We have previously discussed the view of Michigan Law Professor and MSNBC legal analyst Barbara McQuade on free speech. We have strikingly different views on free speech. McQuade just published “Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America” and calls free speech our “Achilles heel.” My book, The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage, is out in the coming days with a more robust view of free speech.
McQuade’s call to limit free speech is justified as needed to combat disinformation, misinformation, and malinformation. Yet, McQuade just went public with a full-throated defense of what the U.S. government now calls a “conspiracy theory.” She maintains that the Hunter Biden laptop should still be discounted or dismissed as Russian disinformation.
Notably, after the authentication of the computer in federal court, Hunter Biden’s lawyer, Abbe Lowell, filed a motion on withdraw the lawsuit against former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani in which claimed that the laptop contained manipulated data.
In her comments, Professor McQuade joins the Post’s Philip Bump as one of the last dogs in this fight. Most media figures have long accepted the view of the U.S. government that the Hunter Biden laptop is “real” and authenticated.
I have previously disagreed with Professor McQuade on issues such as her belief that former president Donald Trump could be charged with manslaughter over the January 6th riot. Yet, those disagreements represent materially different understandings of the operative legal standards. Harvard Professor Laurence Tribe went even further in arguing that Trump could be charged with attempted murder. Academics can disagree on such matters and free speech allows us to hash out our differences.
However, I was still surprised by the effort to resurrect the Russian disinformation claim. Professor McQuade noted that the agent at the Biden trial could not say with certainty that nothing was changed to the laptop before it was obtained by agents from the computer shop. However, FBI agent Erika Jensen said that there was no evidence tampering.
That space, however, was big enough to drive a conspiracy theory through on X:
As noted by @emptywheel, however, questions remain about the chain of custody of the laptop, and [FBI] Agent [Erika] Jensen testified that she was unable to say whether the laptop was tampered with before the FBI obtained it.
And, as @AshaRangappa has noted, even if the content was authentic, it still may have been a Russian influence operation, just like the DNC hack-and-leak operation, designed to sow discord. If so, mission accomplished! […] Therefore, it remains unknown whether Russia was involved with the scheme, and it is still correct to say that the laptop has “all of the hallmarks of a Russian intelligence operation.”
Under this theory, any negative stories found in documents or electronic sources can have “the hallmarks of a Russian intelligence operation” in any given election. That same skepticism, of course, did not apply to the Steele dossier, which was secretly funded by the Clinton campaign and found by U.S. intelligence as containing possible Russian disinformation.
It is a variation on proving a negative. McQuade and others appear to be arguing that you must prove that there was no Russian involvement before giving weight to the damaging contents of the laptop.
Of course, there still has been no showing of any fake file or email. To the contrary, the most damaging emails on influence peddling and other potential criminal conduct have been verified. Yet, McQuade is repeating the claim that “even if the content was authentic, it still may have been a Russian influence operation.” There is also the more obvious explanation that Hunter abandoned his laptop at a computer shop and it was given to the FBI.
What is striking is how advocates are now abandoning the claims of false emails and files in favor of an argument that it may be true but still disinformation. This is consistent with the positions of many academics and the Biden Administration. The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) maintains this position.
CISA head Jen Easterly declared that her agency’s mandate over critical infrastructure would be extended to include “our cognitive infrastructure.” That includes not just “disinformation” and “misinformation,”
but combating “malinformation” – described as information “based on fact, but used out of context to mislead, harm, or manipulate.”
The chain of custody argument continues to be used in Congress despite the federal court and federal agencies recognizing the authenticity of the laptop. The Delaware jury also did not appear persuaded by the claims of Hunter Biden’s defense counsel. It is, in my view, transparently evasive. The issue remains the files on the laptop detailing a massive influence peddling operation and a myriad of criminal acts committed by the President’s son. None of those files have been challenged by evidence of tampering or planting.
Ironically, the continued effort to keep this theory alive seems precisely the type of disinformation that Professor McQuade has cited in justifying limits on free speech.
There are obviously many media and academic figures who are heavily invested in what the government now calls a “conspiracy theory.” I previously discussed how the Bidens have succeeded in a Houdini-like trick in making this elephant of a scandal disappear from the public stage. They did so by enlisting the media in the illusion. Houdini knew the trick would work because the audience wanted the elephant to disappear.
MSM also reported two false claims about Trump yesterday: that he praised Hannibal Lecter, and that he disparaged the city of Milwaukee. Neither happened, they just fabricated it and reported it as if it happened. If Trump-hating MSM couldn’t lie, they’d have to go off the air because they’d have nothing to say.
Both happened and were reported on by local news first, quickly followed by damage control efforts by R’s who said he was just discrediting Milwaukee in regard to elections (thereby confirming what trumpy bear said.). MSNBC just picked up on the local coverage.
But hey, you’re a magat pathologically unable to assimilate accurate coverage of trump. So there’s that. Bet you buy his NFT cards.
Your position has been thoroughly debunked. The coverage was not “accurate” it was all a complete lie. Jesse has the receipts:
“reported on by local news first”
Oldman, I heard they got that news from someone who knows the streets of Milwaukee well, imbibing their most popular brew. They asked the Boozer, and he and his empty bottles confirmed what they wanted to hear. The Boozer wasn’t there, but he is considered one of the MSM’s best journalists.
Anonymous: thanks. Trump referred to the “late, great Hannibal Lector”, apparently unaware: 1. that Hannibal Lector is a fictional character and not a real person; 2. that the Hannibal Lector character has NOT died in any of the 3 movies about him, so he’s not “late”; 3. that the Hannibal Lector character is not “great”–he was a psychiatrist who abused his patients, murdered several people and ate parts of them–he was “Hannibal the cannibal”.
And, Trump DID say that Milwaukee was “horrible”. The RNC, trying to do damage control, claimed he was talking about crime in Milwaukee, which has gone down dramatically. Trump is just a loose cannon, liable to say anything stupid, which he will keep on doing.
Yep, and he also said there would be a bloodbath, but no talking about the auto industry
LMAO
Do you get how pathetic you sound
YOU people are doing all the work FOR Trump.
Keep it up!
WELL SAID and SPOT ON!
Look, bug…check out below…you have spastic Gigi agreeing with you. Same one who just today said GDP is on the rise
Last 3 quarters
4.6
3.4
1.3
yep. you go girls!
The GDP IS rising–consistently. It’s not going down. Biden reversed the economic disaster left by Trump.
LIAR
I just gave you the numbers.. and the website. You dont even know what GDP is.
Months from now you’ll say you didn’t lie about this either. I see it now you honestly believe your own LIE
Pathological LIAR
Here it is again, ya spastic kunt
https://www.bea.gov/data/gdp/gross-domestic-product
Lets go back and look how consistent. How about from Q4 2022
Down
Down
Down
Up
Down
Down
Yea, that looks like rising consistently to me.
LYING SPASTIC KUNT
Old Man,
The truth it was Joe Biden who praised Hannibal Lecter.
At first he thought it was Hanibal from the A team he was praising.
When they explained who it was… he said … even better. Here’s a man who knows how to counter the price gouging that’s occurring in the grocery stores.
-G
By similar logic, George Soros and son have all the earmarks of a Russian Intelligence operation.
Does Professor McQuade understand if she is correct, she should be censored? Saying a laptop is Russian disinformation after it was proven authentic is disinformation by definition. So if Professor McQuade is spouting disinformation and she claims
disinformation is a problem that needs to be shut down, does it not follow she is part of the problem and she should be censored? The good professor is either doing it on purpose, or mistaken. If she is mistaken, she can be educated and reassess her opinion. If she is doing it on purpose, then she opens herself up to her own censorship.
Want to bet she decides SHE does not to be censored.
You are asking for a prog/left tool to be logical and rational? Really??? They only reaction via emotional outbursts or on prompting by their propaganda administrator.
McQuade provides commentary I always respect, especially as compared to yours Turley…
For instance, you continue to, at best, tell Steele dossier half truths. If not outright lies. The Washington Free Beacon subsidized the dossier into existence during th R primary in ’16. HRC only picked up that bit of oppo after R’s couldn’t use it after losing to Don from Queens.
Your insistence on sticking with your particular lie, much like the one you carry for Barr about the Mueller report debunking Russian involvement in ’16, is laughable and just makes you look rather pitiful outside the sort of fox cock riding circles like on your blog here.
Still time to not completely sell out on the last 5% of your soul you have left, Jon. The off ramp beckons.
However you’re probably going to take what is clearly the backroom R path…, rim trump profusely, hopefully to win an election and then get rid of him.
But that’s misinformation. You should be de-platformed as the hacks like McQuade would have it.
The Daily Caller in no way funded the Steele dossier. Steele was hired after the Caller had ceased research on the primary candidates. This is common knowledge among those who depend upon sources besides MSNBC.
Fusion GPS put together the opo research for the Washington Free Beacon on behalf of R donors who favored Rubio in the ’16 primary. HRC picked it up in May of ’16 after it was clear trump had won the primary.
You may think otherwise, and it’s your right to be ensconced in the fever dream. But it is, indeed, a fever dream.
Then why did Hilary pay a ton of money in fines for calling the payment for the dossier “legal fees”?
The fact HRC was fined for misclassifying opo research doesn’t mean the project was hers originally. She picked up the remainder of R opo from the primary. Please keep up.
No, she just paid a fine for money SHE SPENT on the dossier and yet you still argue that it wasn’t hers???? Where did her money go moron?
Anonymous: thank you. Here’s a little inconvenient statistic: McQuade teaches at the University of Michigan Law School, ranked 9th overall. Turley works at George Washington University Law School, ranked 41 of 196.
Gigi works at McDonalds.
Gigi doesn’t work at all.
She is an obese, diabetic, hoarder on disability. You may have seen her on TV.
And there are still flat-earthers, people that deny the holocaust and even people who think they have been abducted by aliens. You can classify these die-hard TDS sufferers in the same insane category as jihadists who willingly fly planes into towers.
Oh let me guess…, you took all morning to think that little tidbit up?
So here is what’s behind this. IMHO, McQuade doesn’t truly believe the laptop thing is Russian propaganda any more than I do, or any other sensible person. HOWEVER, there were many Democrats who committed to believing the story, based somewhat on the 51 former intelligence agents. Probably most Democrats cynically pretended to believe the story because it helped their narrative and for Democrats, lying is their way of life. (Remember Van Jones and the Nothing-Burger.) And, it was very close in time to the election. Other Democrats truly bought into the story, because it was something that assuaged their cognitive dissonance. Reality, aka the LapTop From Hell, disconfirmed their belief system that Biden was honest.
Now that even the MSM has had to concede that the Laptop was real, that leaves a whopping large dose of Disconfirmation sitting out there, working its evil ways in the background, giving a megadose of dissonance to the true-believer Democrats. People in the throes of cognitive dissonance, and who are not able to adjust their false belief system, need something to help them continue in their delusion. McQuade provides that something to them. She has crafted a story that will permit the Bitter-clinger to continue in their folly. That was her intent. Frankly, I could have invented a better story.
So, the fact that Bump and McQuade still believe, or pretend to believe the Laptop is propaganda, is not surprising. It is a job that needs doing, from the Democrats’ perspective. See this:
“Dissonance theory’s original foray into research on belief disconfirmation came from observations of a group committed to the belief that the continent would be destroyed by a flood and that they would be saved by a space ship; this event did not occur (Festinger et al., Citation1956). In response to this disconfirmation, the group intensified their beliefs in the group and began proselytizing. The first few paragraphs of Festinger et al. (Citation1956, p. 3) describe several reactions to belief disconfirmation:
A MAN with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point. We have all experienced the futility of trying to change a strong conviction, especially if the convinced person has some investment in his belief. We are familiar with the variety of ingenious defenses with which people protect their convictions, managing to keep them unscathed through the most devastating attacks. But man’s resourcefulness goes beyond simply protecting a belief. Suppose an individual believes something with his whole heart; suppose further that he has a commitment to this belief, that he has taken irrevocable actions because of it; finally, suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before.
Subsequent research has provided evidence of these ideas as well as others (Aronson et al., Citation1963; Zimbardo, Citation1960). Individuals scrutinize belief disconfirming evidence longer, try harder to refute the evidence, and judge the evidence as weaker (Edwards & Smith, Citation1996). After being exposed to belief disconfirming evidence, individuals also intensify the strength of their original beliefs (Batson, Citation1975; Lord et al., Citation1979) and appeal to superordinate principles that make the two inconsistent beliefs compatible (Burris et al., Citation1997).”
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15534510.2020.1781248
OT
YES!!!
I knew hanging on to this bump stock would pay off some day!!!
Combined with a WOT trigger, this 6.5 Creedmoor is faster than an M-16, with twice the range, twice the power, and half the weight. Better double up on that body armor.
FU, ATF!!!
Now, when will they rule that the ATF owes all the people who destroyed theirs, the cost of their stocks?
Long live 2A
Hey Dennis, NOW I can ruin the meat!!!
@Waters… not even funny.
If you actually own guns, you’d understand why.
The only thing funny or accurate was your comment to Denise.
-G
I “actually” own a lot of guns.
And who is trying to be funny? The only part that was meant to be was the comment to Dennis.
Waters,
Bump stocks are a gimick for people who do not, or can not manipulate a trigger correctly.
Sarcasm, folks. Jeezus.
Look, I told you people that Bruen was the start of a serious shit show.
And you might have recognized this from my prior posts on the topic.
Then add the /sarc to the end.
Hard to tell otherwise.
My bad. I always though that adding the /sarc kinda detracted from its purpose. Particularly when you are trying to out people and get them to step in their own doo doo.
Ditto to what UpState had to say.
Squirt guns don’t count btw…
If you actually understood the 6.5CM, you’d know that your long range accuracy is due not only to the cartridge but the platform itself.
Also if you’re going to compare the 6.5CM to an M16, you’re comparing an assault rifle cartridge to a rifle cartridge. The M4/M16/AR15 platform can’t fire a 6.5CM length cartridge.
Now if you were to compare the 6.5CM coming out of an M110 and your bumpstock was on a AR10… you might have made a better argument.
Still spray and pray will not equate to a proper select fire or semi-auto w good trigger and weapon control.
And yes, I do own several long guns in multiple calibers including a .300WM ‘bean field’ rifle. (Unless you’ve hunted in SC you may not understand that term.)
FD that anon above… is me.
-G (Gumby)
G
All why I used that specific example in my SARCASTIC remarks. I too have a 300 winmag and a 330 Lapua magnum as well.
You’ll be happy to know, neither have bump stocks. The Lapua is semi auto, just cuz, but the winmag is bolt.
IF I had a bump stock and wanted to play with it on the farm, I certainly wouldn’t be using it to plink rounds that cost $2 a pop.
typo—-.338LM
Waters…
As I said you clearly don’t own guns.
I think there’s only one manufacturer who is making a .300WM in an AR platform. IIRC that was Omen or something similar.
Your 300WM or .338 Lapua would be bolt guns.
Now if you were really into rifles, you’d at least claim to have done a mad minute and passed w a minimum score.
Too funny.
First of all, no one said that I clearly don’t own guns. So the only thing that is clear is that you are some spastic idiot non savant, pretending to be relevant.
I never said my 300WM was an AR, ya fvcktard. Wanna copy and paste that??
And here is my .338LM Semi Automatic (except mine is done in Kryptek Altitude)
https://sworddefense.com/saasr/
Not only do I own a few guns, I build many of my own as well.
Here is a .338LM in AR platform! Enjoy.
https://www.fddefense.com/rifles/fd338/
Would you like me to recommend a site where you can educate yourself on what’s out there these days?? Or would you prefer to remain ignorant?
SC is not the only place where there are bean fields, LOL, but certainly advances in ranging technology and ballistics have made “beanfields” less cost effective (if they ever were). Or maybe that’s just jealousy talking (wink).
Waters you didn’t get the reference.
reference to what, moron?
Bump stocks are for those that want to bump fire their semi automatic weapon as a full automatic weapon more easily and without interruption.
It’s disturbing to see that the Michigan Law School would hire a political hack like McQuade to teach its classes. It would almost be as crazy as hiring Elizabeth Warren. Oh, wait, they already did that.
Now the school is hiring the failed looney, Lori Lightfoot, to teach “public policy”. It appears that U of M is aiming to become the “official school” of MSNBC.
The people running the place should consider that they should be trying to open minds, not further closing them.
This laptop-denier behavior is delusional. A psychiatric disorder, a delusion is defined as a false belief that is unalterable by facts to the contrary. The behavior of Ms. McQuade, and Philip Bump, would meet this criteria.
@Vincente
Oh, they know exactly what they are doing, being disingenuous with ill intent – AKA *lying* in the face of irrefutable evidence (even if it were ‘tampered with’, which it wasn’t, it’s still buttnut Biden in the videos and communiques) – and they absolutely do not care. The term for that is actually sociopathy or psychopathy, and it seems to now plague the dnc writ large. One can’t expect sociopaths or psychopaths to give a toss about laws, norms, or fairness.
What is truly sabotaging America is this insistence that we do not take people like McQuade, obamma, john bolton, mcconnell and graham, pelosi and clinton and schiff and drag them through the streets, place them in stockades, and leave them there for a couple days before exiling them.
We should have our elected officials and their aids/assistants/etc. fully wiretapped and video tapped and financial records tapped…all made to be 100% transparent – don’t like it, resign. Meeting with boeing or blm or blackrock or facebook or my company – 100% transparent – if it’s top top secret, the records are on file and available to a citizens’ advocate.
The establishment needs to be ousted. There is no cure for it.
” Professor McQuade noted that the agent at the Biden trial could not say with certainty that nothing was changed to the laptop before it was obtained by agents from the computer shop. However, FBI agent Erika Jensen said that there was no evidence tampering.”
Uhm actually while technically true… you can tell if a document had been change so that the statement is false when talking about the evidence itself.
You can verify that the emails were unedited or changed. Same for photographs.
The NY Post verified the emails by contacting the other parties. The FBI can do the same and of course both should match and they should match the checksum in the headers (which most don’t see) that is a hash of the email’s content.
There’s more, but the Michigan Law professor is an idjit. But what do you expect from someone who teaches or attended such a lame school.
-G
(Born and Bred Buckeye)
Sadly, Ohio State is as bad….or worse. America’s institutions of ‘higher education’ are nothing more than radical, communist-infested indoctrination centers.
Less than Michigan, Northwestern and a couple more of the new ‘Big 10’ schools which cater to the libtards.
Unfortunately all universities have been invaded by the marxists.
I blame the grade school public education.
-G
There’s an old saying: The truth will out. The word “will” in this context indicates both the future tense and a desire. The truth WILL eventually emerge because it WANTS to emerge and all of nature demands that it emerge. It is a natural process. The truth is not afraid of lies. Lies, on the other hand, are afraid of the truth. Anytime there is a desire to suppress information, it is never in the interests of truth. Sticking labels on truth, like mis/dis/mal – information, is merely an awkward and pathetic attempt to cover the light of truth in order to give lies a chance to prevail. It doesn’t work but it buys time.
Known as ‘That *%$#&%# laptop’ to the powers that be.
It’s all ego with McQuade. No one is going to tell her what to do or think by god. She is making a fool of herself. Mis dis mal. It’s so very tiresome.
Miss Dismal would be a suitable nickname.
Rico, don’t forget that she is making MSNBC and University MONEY and that’s the driving force. Fascist pigs like this can make millions by pushing their agenda at the same time. It is a grift and a political maneuver wrapped in one.
They are fascist pigs and greedy pigs. Two definitions of pig, but both apt.
HullBobby,
I think that is an insult to pigs.
My apologies to all real pigs out there.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The Sullivan decision limiting libel suits because the victim is a “public” personage needs to be overturned. I don’t think it would lead to anything miraculous but would be a useful way to curtail the unhinged ravings out there in the public discourse. Be it right or left. If you going to attack someone you better have provable facts or you should lose your shirt. And if you lose you get to pay attorney’s fees of the winning party. That might lead to more thought and reasoning.
I don’t think Russian disinformation is a defense any more and it needs to be laughed out of existence.
Ms McQuade seems to have a grasp of reality that matches the governor of her state . The former Football Coach at Univ of Michigan had a better grasp of reality and context.
It’s unfortunate that McQuabe probably can’t define what a woman is either….
If American citizens can’t agree on the basic definition of a woman and/or what is free speech, then how can we agree on how to move forward as a country?
There is a registry file on a hard drive that identifies every file as to date, time, source, author, and in the case of pics the device that took it. This is true of even deleted files.
The file itself has even more info.
In the chain of custody it is easy pickings to correlate the custodian time period and the presence of “new” or “deleted” files. Child’s play really.
Further that laptop had geolocating functions that located that device whenever it was turned on.
When the FBI opines there is no evidence of tampering they have examined these bits of information. Their conclusion is unassailable.
This is actually how the FBI first learned the computer store guy copied the hard drive.
The chain of custody and the file activity in this scenario is as simple as it gets.
JLM
http://www.themusingsofthebigredcar.com
JLM said: “When the FBI opines there is no evidence of tampering they have examined these bits of information. Their conclusion is unassailable.”
Assuming that their public statement conformed to their technical analysis (we are talking about the FBI, after all), that is correct. Furthermore, any bias deliberately introduced by the FBI would almost certainly have been in Biden’s favor. I retired after~40 years in IT, the last half of that as head of Information Security for a large, multi-national corporation, and I can vouch for your analysis. There is even more forensic evidence from the laptop that could have been used to determine whether or not it (or any data on it) had been altered. Could even that kind of forensic evidence have been faked or altered in some way without leaving traces? Yes, but it is nearly impossible that a computer shop owner would have that capability, and it is highly unlikely that such expertise is widely available even within the FBI. To accomplish that would probably require the services of someone from esoteric NSA geekdom, or (somewhat less likely), CIA. So, absent some positive, conclusive, corroborated evidence to the contrary, the laptop as portrayed by the NY Post, and the FBI in the trial, must be regarded by any sane, rational, truthful, person as 100% authentic.
JLM and Number 6,
Excellent analysis.
Thank you.
@Anon…
No, there isn’t a ‘registry’. Its the file system and no it doesn’t work the way you think it does.
Try learning more about Operating Systems and file systems.
Apple aka MacOS is based on Mach / BSD which is a flavor of Unix.
(Remember Avi and NeXT came out of CMU which is Mach. )
There’s more to this… like how the Mac repair guy copied the file system to retain the metadata of the file system.
To the point you’re trying to make… the chain of custody at least up until the FBI got a hold of it is known and documented.
-G
Yawn…
G said: “No, there isn’t a ‘registry’. Its the file system and no it doesn’t work the way you think it does.”
While JLM appeared to be depending on allegory to Windows (“registry”), the essential point he was making is absolutely valid. Virtually all OS will show fingerprints of various kinds from file and file system modification (system logs; journals; checksums of various kinds; etc.) that are, by design, difficult to erase without leaving obvious traces. Many, if not most, applications will behave similarly. I’m no Mac systems architect, but I suspect, given the greater coherence of MacOS and applications written for it, making undetected changes is likely more difficult in that environment than it is in Windows.
“analogy” not “allegory” – brain fart alert
Dear Mr. Turley, these folks who still cannot acknowledge the fact of the laptop actually belonging to Hunter Biden are truly and deeply partisan. They seem to be so entrenched in their collective hatred of Mr. Trump and the rest of his fellow deplorables, they are unable to see any truth regarding it. It is my hope the Mr. Trump will have a decisive victory in November. My thought is that if he were to win the Democrats would howl that he is an illegitimate president, as Hillary Clinton did before in 2016. Funny, no one charged her with “election interference”.
Did you expect something different from an Obacala appointee?
“Did you expect something different from an Obacala appointee?”
Yes. I expect professionalism. And partisanship of course, but this is beyond that. This is expecting reality to conform to one’s expectations, also known as Delusion. There’s a reason they call it TDS. I also concur w/ the poster who chalks it up to arrogance. Each vine grows around the others, and Mis Dis-Mal & co are a thicket of hack lunacy.
S@@tlibs live in their own reality.
Unfortunately, their reality usually does not correspond to factual, objective truth.
And what ever happened to the ‘love and tolerance’ they always are preaching?
No, wait, their tolerance only applies to communists, pornographers, trannys and anything opposed to traditional values and western civilization.
I do not want to understand, dialog or reconcile with these people. I want a divorce.
Maybe if I combine my desire for secession into Hispanic separatism, s@@tlibs won’t oppose it?
antonio
Viva La Raza!