Below is my column in USA Today on the most chilling moment from the Vance-Walz debate when the Democratic nominee showed why he is part of the dream ticket for the anti-free speech movement.
Here is the column:
In the vice presidential debate Tuesday, Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz pulled the fire alarm.
His opponent, Sen. JD Vance, R-Ohio, cited the massive system of censorship supported by Vice President Kamala Harris and her running mate.
Walz proceeded to quote the line from a 1919 case in which Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes said you do not have the right to falsely yell fire in a crowded theater.
It is the favorite mantra of the anti-free speech movement. It also is fundamentally wrong.
In my book “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage,” I discuss the justice’s line from his opinion in Schenck v. United States. Holmes wrote, “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic.”
‘Fire in a theater’ case supported government censorship
As I discuss in the book, the line was largely lifted from a brief in an earlier free speech case. It has since become the rationale for politicians and pundits seeking to curtail free speech in America.
For example, when I testified last year before Congress against a censorship system that has been described by one federal court as “similar to an Orwellian ‘Ministry of Truth,’” Rep. Dan Goldman, D-N.Y., interjected with the fire-in-a-theater question to say such censorship is needed and constitutional. In other words, the internet is now a huge crowded theater and those with opposing views are shouting fire.
Goldman and Walz both cited a case in which socialists Charles Schenck and Elizabeth Baer were arrested and convicted of violating the Espionage Act of 1917. Their “crime” was to pass out flyers in opposition to the military draft during World War I.
Schenck and Baer called on their fellow citizens not to “submit to intimidation” and to “assert your rights.” They argued, “If you do not assert and support your rights, you are helping to deny or disparage rights which it is the solemn duty of all citizens and residents of the United States to retain.” They also described the military draft as “involuntary servitude.”
Holmes used his “fire in a theater” line to justify the abusive conviction and incarceration. At the House hearing, when I was trying to explain that the justice later walked away from the line and Schenck was effectively overturned in 1969 in Brandenburg v. Ohio, Goldman cut me off and said, “We don’t need a law class here.”
In the vice presidential debate, Walz showed that he and other Democratic leaders most certainly do need a class in First Amendment law.
As I have said, the Biden-Harris administration has proved to be the most anti-free speech administration in two centuries. You have to go back to John Adams’ administration to find the equal of this administration.
Harris has been an outspoken champion of censorship in an administration that supports targeting disinformation, misinformation and “malinformation.” That last category was defined by the Biden administration as information “based on fact, but used out of context to mislead, harm, or manipulate.”
In the debate, Walz also returned to his favorite dismissal of censorship objections by saying that it is all just inflammatory rhetoric.
Recently, Walz went on MSNBC to support censoring disinformation and declared, “There’s no guarantee to free speech on misinformation or hate speech, and especially around our democracy.”
That is entirely untrue and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the right called “indispensable” by the Supreme Court. Even after some of us condemned his claim as ironically dangerous disinformation, Walz continues to repeat it.
Free speech advocates view Harris as a threat
This is why, for the free speech community, the prospect of a Harris-Walz administration is chilling. Where President Joe Biden was viewed as supporting censorship out of political opportunism, Harris and Walz are viewed as true believers.
We are living through the most dangerous anti-free speech movement in American history. We have never before faced the current alliance of government, corporate, academic and media forces aligned against free speech. A Harris-Walz administration with a supportive Congress could make this right entirely dispensable.
Others are laying the groundwork for precisely that moment. University of Michigan Law School professor and MSNBC legal analyst Barbara McQuade has said that free speech “can also be our Achilles’ heel.”
Columbia law professor Tim Wu, a former Biden White House aide, wrote a New York Times op-ed with the headline, “The First Amendment Is Out of Control.” He told readers that free speech “now mostly protects corporate interests” and threatens “essential jobs of the state, such as protecting national security and the safety and privacy of its citizens.”
Walz said in the debate that Vice President Harris is promoting the “politics of joy.” Indeed, the wrong people are perfectly ecstatic. Harris and Walz are the dream team for the anti-free speech movement.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro Professor of Public Interest Law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
We do not need to imagine a country in which free speech is banned if it does not toe the line. All one needs to do is look today at NBC or CBS online and use those as your only sources of information. Although there have been stories about the towns that were wiped out by the hurricane, I found no mention that the people who had lost everything were only being given $750 while illegal immigrants routinely have been given several thousand dollars in the form of debit cards, iphones, free healthcare, free hotels and food. I also saw no mention that because $600+ Billion of FEMA’s funds were transferred in order to pay for services and cash to illegal immigrants, FEMA has no more money to deal with any future hurricanes, even though we are only half way through the hurricane season. I also read how according to a CBS instant poll, the Vice-Presidential debate essentially was a tie. Recall that in the early days, an all out assault on Fox News was orchestrated and led by Obama, knowing that if an alternative source of news was widely available, then the Democrats could not easily control the narrative. Although it has not been successful, still today, many people, including a number of my friends, refuse to watch Fox News because the propaganda in the early days convinced them it was untrustworthy.
Good summary. You should change your moniker to “100%CorrectLawyer.”
No, lawyer, you are either not being truthful, you don’t know any better or are just repeating MAGA media lies. From “Newsweek”:
“Replying to the rumor that funding for FEMA disaster response had been “diverted to support international efforts or border related issues,” the government agency said on its specially dedicated fact check page: “This is false. No money is being diverted from disaster response needs. FEMA’s disaster response efforts and individual assistance is funded through the Disaster Relief Fund, which is a dedicated fund for disaster efforts. Disaster Relief Fund money has not been diverted to other, non-disaster related efforts.”
Some X users, including Texas Representative Dan Crenshaw, accused FEMA of diverting funds for disaster relief to the Shelter and Services Program, which provides money for migrant services.
“Maybe, just maybe, the Biden-Harris Administration should stop diverting FEMA funds—meant to help AMERICANS during disaster recovery—to facilitate mass-paroling illegal migrants into the country,” Crenshaw posted on X.
A Department for Homeland Security spokesperson told Newsweek: “These claims are completely false. As Secretary Mayorkas said, FEMA has the necessary resources to meet the immediate needs associated with Hurricane Helene and other disasters.”
“The Shelter and Services Program (SSP) is a completely separate, appropriated grant program that was authorized and funded by Congress and is not associated in any way with FEMA’s disaster-related authorities or funding streams.””
Gigi, your bun is way too tight. It’s cutting off oxygen to your brain.
This is the same government that falsely claimed Trump was colluding with Russians while covering up the Bidens taking bribes from China. That gubment!! Shame, child!
Do you know why the Democrats scapegoat the Russians and not the Chinese? Because our corrupt oligarchs are getting rich shipping our jobs to China.
If you love American working people, you need to vote against the oligarchs.
Diogenes: Trump DID collude with Russians to spread lies about Hillary Clinton–a Republican-led Senate Committee found this, in addition to the Mueller investigation. I’ve included citations to the Senate Committee report several times. What evidence do you have that the citation I provided above is not true? There is a FEMA disaster fund–that’s what’s going for hurricane relief, and that fund has nothing to do with migrants. If you have proof this isn’t true, then provide it. A lie by Republican Dan Crenshaw is NOT proof.
Where is the proof that Joe Biden took bribes from the Chinese? Jordan’s committee has tried for years to gin up proof of this, and hasn’t done so. Why do you believe it exists?
Hunters Laptop
Banking referrals
False NO investigation has EVER concluded that Trump colluded with Russians.
The Senate investigation that you cite:
Did NOT find any collusion.
Further all its russia relate findings were ultimately discredited.
Mueller DID NOT find any collusion.
Nor did Mueller actually find russian influence operations – it investigated claims rejected nearly all and in the only case it took to court the judge though the case out for lack of ANY evidence.
the Durham investigation proved all that nonsense never happened.
The entire collusion delusion nonsense was one more of the myriads of hoaxes Hillary has foist upon the country,
and nit wits have bought hook, line and sinker.
Apparently you think so because you imagined it when you consumed a crack infused booger. The senate never took up the Russia collusion case. McConnell killed it on arrival.
Diogenes, first, thank you for the compliment. Second, it is not surprising that the trolls would quote this: “A Department for Homeland Security spokesperson told Newsweek: “These claims are completely false. As Secretary Mayorkas said, FEMA has the necessary resources to meet the immediate needs associated with Hurricane Helene and other disasters.” Just yesterday I actually heard Mayorkas say that FEMA is out of money and does not have the resources for another hurricane. See
I had heard the same thing about Mayorkas, 100%CorrectLawyer. Democrats always have two memos: one for the oligarchs and one for suckers. Somehow the wrong memo got to the public. Gigi got the intended memo.
https://www.fema.gov/disaster/current/hurricane-helene/rumor-response
Sorry honestlawyermostly, but you are conflating like 5 different things.
Mayorkas said: “We are meeting the immediate needs” for Helene. They may not funds to meet future needs for the remainder of the season. This is consistent with the FEMA link above.
This does NOT mean that the FEMA funds were diverted to border/migrant issues. No money is being diverted from disaster response needs. FEMA’s disaster response efforts and individual assistance is funded through the Disaster Relief Fund, which is a dedicated fund for disaster efforts. Disaster Relief Fund money has not been diverted to other, non-disaster related efforts.
Can you please provide evidence for you BS $750 claim?
“Mayorkas said: “We are meeting the immediate needs” for Helene. They may not funds to meet future needs for the remainder of the season. This is consistent with the FEMA link above. ”
It is obvious to anyone with a brain that the assessment of damages from Helene will be a work in progress for many weeks, if not months. Those damages will doubtless far exceed whatever numbers Mayorkas is using for “immediate needs” (assuming he actually knows what a number looks like). If I had lost a house or suffered other severe damages in Helene, the unknown aspect of total damages and his statement about the lack of funds for future hurricanes, taken together, would leave me feeling extremely uncomfortable about being taken care of. Furthermore, in terms of named storms, and hurricanes making landfall, this season, excluding Helene, had been far milder than predicted. If DHS had budgeted properly for storm damages, and did not divert funds elsewhere, how does that comport with running low on funds?
“Can you please provide evidence for you BS $750 claim?”
You are a troll. We just discussed this elsewhere, and when I responded, you ran away. You engage in sea lioning, so it is a waste of time to respond to you with facts.
Why don’t you respond and tell us what they got instead of $750, with evidence, of course?
Biden failed. DeSantis provided more immediate help faster than the feds. He probably ended up costing lives when he visited.
All People Are Working People Working At Something
Americans are free to start a business, accept employment, or persist as independently wealthy in perpetuity.
Insane, criminal communists demand to “claim and exercise dominion” over other people’s money (OPM) simply because they are shiftless and indolent leeches and parasites.
Communists are Biblical sinners who covet possessions, bear false witness of need, and steal from others.
NUTCHACHACHA is flyover country.
NUTCHACHACHA, please cite the Constitution for the affirmative action, etc., you avail yourself of.
Real men don’t need governmental or any other type of assistance.
Real men are free and self-reliant.
You do want to be a real man, don’t you?
I’ll bet your children would attest to that.
So we can trust untrustworthy government sources to tell us we can trust them ?
HonestLawyeMostly,
Well said.
I was pretty disgusted how much FEMA has spent on all the illegals and all the money Biden has sent to the Ukraine and then provides nearly nothing to the American people.
An honest lawyer would establish a foundation and provide a constitutional basis for FEMA. Article 1, Section 8, precludes Congress from taxing for or funding anything except “debt, defense, and general Welfare,” understanding that FEMA is neither debt nor defense, general is defined as “all or the whole,” and there are 45 states other than Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia, demonstrating that those five states definitively do not constitute the prescribed “general” in “general Welfare.”
States must institute and maintain the “emergency services” they deem “necessary and proper,” while free individuals and free market charities may lend assistance of all types.
Did you get this fake news from Trump?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHJi_hqxDgE
FEMA had to make a RESPONSE WEBSITE to respond to this misinformation:
Rumor: FEMA will only provide $750 to disaster survivors to support their recovery.
Fact:
This is false.
One type of assistance that is often approved quickly after you apply is Serious Needs Assistance, which is $750 to help pay for essential items like food, water, baby formula, breastfeeding supplies, medication and other emergency supplies. There are other forms of assistance that you may qualify to receive once you apply for disaster assistance. As your application continues to be reviewed, you may still receive additional forms of assistance for other needs such as support for temporary housing and home repair costs. Learn more about the types of assistance available. If you have questions about your disaster assistance application and what you qualify for, contact us at 1-800-621-3362 to speak with a FEMA representative.
Rumor: Funding for FEMA disaster response was diverted to support international efforts or border related issues.
Fact:
This is false. No money is being diverted from disaster response needs. FEMA’s disaster response efforts and individual assistance is funded through the Disaster Relief Fund, which is a dedicated fund for disaster efforts. Disaster Relief Fund money has not been diverted to other, non-disaster related efforts.
October 3, 2024
https://www.fema.gov/disaster/current/hurricane-helene/rumor-response
Thank you, Mr. Mayorkas, that will be quite enough.
https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1842253899975307461?s=46&t=iL7yiGkx3qerbbOBK3Qn0g
“I am from the government and you can trust me”.
We eep hearing lies from the Biden-Harris administration along with cowardly anonymous posters who hit and run with misinformation. Some of them are just stupid while the others are coniving.
Biden-Harris Admin Raids FEMA Funds to Resettle Illegal Aliens
“FEMA’s Emergency Food and Shelter Program is already being siphoned for over $332 million “to assist communities receiving noncitizens released from custody,” which means housing migrants here illegally at the border, then transporting them to places such as New York City.
New York has been promised $104 million from this pot, though at a burn rate of $8 million a day, it won’t last long. Big city mayors gripe about a few buses carrying illegal aliens sent by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott, but the main train delivering migrants to their sidewalks is driven by the Department of Homeland Security, using FEMA money. ”
https://www.dailysignal.com/2024/10/04/fema-money-is-for-disaster-stricken-americans-not-those-here-illegally/?utm_source=TDS_Email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MorningBell&mkt_tok=ODI0LU1IVC0zMDQAAAGV-zcmaV94XmwoXvOX5lBGbqQpQnPeaYIbQ6YZIM1a08DW8ifLphlsssBfNc3XC6Wcd5-MHs4l6oQweB2JqKkwcEN_b7ivCwWGaHU823dJMPtAWiQmWQ
S. Meyer,
This is the kind of thing leftists demand censorship. By silencing any dissent, opposition to their narrative, they can do what they want with no push back by the public with impunity. We have seen how they have complete to total disregard for Americans, while using millions and even billions of dollars to support illegals or the Ukraine when that money could of been used on Americans here at home. The wild fires in Hawaii, the train derailment in Ohio, the aftermath of hurricane Helene. And it is not so much a Democrat or Republican thing but the 1% vs the rest of us.
Selected Bee headlines:
– School shooters distance themselves from Tim Walz
– North Carolina asks Zelensky for billions in U.S. funding
– Walz clarifies he meant the ‘Tiananmen Square Chinese Buffet’ in Omaha, Nebraska
– DOJ indicts JD Vance for brutally beating three women in the debate
– Nation in awe Harris managed to find running mate dumber than she is
– North Carolina agrees to purchase several Hunter Biden paintings in return for U.S. aid
– Kid cleverly waits till bedtime before asking dad to explain the Trinity
– Harris supporters trying to figure out how to convert joy into groceries
– Harris announces construction of ‘Murderers only’ express lane at southern border
– After extensive research, experts conclude Harris struggling to connect with male voters because she’s awful
– Young Hezbollah recruit can’t believe he’s already made regional manager
– Exploding restaurant buzzer takes out Hezbollah party of 6
– Biden cleverly distracts from civil war by starting world war
– Sad: drag queen wants to perform but there are no kids around
– Mad money: Jim Cramer predicts White Sox will win World Series
– First Baptist Church softball team defeats White Sox 7-2
– Doctors no longer ask ‘who is the president’ to test for concussions since nobody is really sure right now
– Hezbollah reaches out to U.S. for advice on how to govern with a dead leader
– ‘Now who am I supposed to send my Wordle score to?’ cries Rashida Tlaib
– Sad: Hezbollah’s turnover rate officially surpasses McDonald’s
– To save time NFL announcers will only mention when there’s not a flag on the play
– Disturbing: WNBA fans heard yelling ugly racial slurs such as ‘Go Caitlin!’
– Mark Cuban inspires thousands by proving even the mentally challenged can become wealthy
– Trump says to drink lots of water, media reports he told everyone to drown themselves
– Female weightlifter suffers tragic testicle injury just weeks before the Olympics
😄
That’s me laughing. Pushed the wrong button.
Greetings Diogenes, it’s always good to see your face around here.
Oh man, you just to bad! I think i injured something laughing. Oh it hurts.👍👍
GEB – good to see you as well. I usually make sure I’m lying down before I read the Bee.
Yours,
OMFK a/k/a Uncle Henry
If I am in a theater and someone yells fire, I’m looking for the flame. Absent that, I’m looking for the smoke. Absent that, I continue watching the movie. That’s how you decide and then deal with misinformation.
What about the rest of the audience? They may not be as astute or calm as you. What if they panic and head for the exit in a stampede? Would those hurt be able to sue the person who yelled “fire”? The person yelling “fire” and knowing full well there isn’t one can be shown to have intentionally caused the injury. This is because of the legal concept of “reckless disregard for the truth,” which means that the person knowingly made a false statement that could result in harm to others. In such a situation, those injured in the resulting stampede may have legal grounds to sue for damages caused by the false alarm.
* political pundits, journalists and others have ethical standards.
Did a journalist yell “fire” in a crowded theater? Maybe it was a fireman.
Do you know what a logical fallacy is ?
No one – not even Turley claims that anyone can say anything without consequences.
All speech will enhance or undermine the credibility of the speaker.
SOME speech constitutes a tort and sometimes can rest in actual damages.
SOME speech constitutes breech of contract.
An incredibly tiny amount of speech is subject to criminal sanctions without violating the constitution.
You can not reason from the fact that tortuous speech exists to govenrment is free to censor anything.
“Nobody, including Turley, argues that anyone can speak without facing consequences.”
But the thing is, Turley doesn’t really highlight that. He downplays its significance. Just like you’re doing now. By using words like “SOME” and “incredibly tiny,” you’re minimizing its importance. It’s much more significant than that. Instances like shouting “fire” in a crowded theater underscore the fact that speech can be harmful and can be regulated when it’s not protected by the First Amendment.
Svelaz, go back to using AI. It will sound better, whether or not it represents what you want to say.
You forgot the part where you smoke crack and become oblivious to everything.
Ol Sergeant Major, Tiananmen Square, Tampon Tim is the perfect anti-free speech companion. Berkeley Girl & Knucklehead are the new poster children for Amerika’s march to communism and censorship.
DNC-CCP needs to be purged. That being said, I can’t blame them for trying to stop people from outing their lies, grift, and corruption
Jonathan: Did you see it? The new AI generated photo of JD “Shady” Vance? It was posted two days ago by Georgia MAGA House Rep. Mike Collins. It shows JD with a slimmed down face–apparently to make JD look “hotter” for female voters–with his “energy” and “vibe”, if you will.
It didn’t take long for others to post their own AI generated photos of JD. “Cute Brute” posted a grossly distorted photo of the VP candidate with the comment: “Two can play at this game my man”. Others also equally funny photos of JD. One photo depicts JD as if he had been bitten during the zombie apocalypse!
And Rep. Mike Collins wonders why MAGA Republican are considered “weird”. Collins latest attempt to portray without the fat face only confirms that!
This has to be the most pathetic thing you’ve ever written. And I never thought you’d be able to surpass yourself.
Could not have said so better myself.
I was wondering if I was the only one who figured out that Vance wears a beard to hide the fact that he has a very fat face.
What’s your excuse?
Gigi posted I was wondering if I was the only one who figured out that Vance wears a beard to hide the fact that he has a very fat face.
And we wretch with disgust to read you bragging that the merkins you wear have to be made out of the entire warthog pelt, edge to edge, to be big enough to hide what’s beneath them. But at least you don’t have to trim your merkins like Vance has to trim his beard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkin
Dennis, apparently you do not get that effective deprectory nick names have to more than Rhyme
Sleepy Joe – works, fits the facts.
Kackling Kamala – play most any clip of Harris and it fits.
Tampon Tim – does anyone need an explanation ?
Shady Vance ? What does it mean ? This is as dead as the Republicans are weird nonsense coming from Walz and Harris.
JD Vance’s life is LITERALLY an open book – and a Movie by Ron Howard.
Where is the “shady” part ?
Do you actually expect this to be effective ?
You do not seem to understand – you the left, the media democrats have lost credibility.
You can not sell your excrement any more without providing actual proof of your claims.
In the past Week – Vance wiped the floor with Walz AND the moderators in the VP debate – and even most of the left admits it.
McCormick wiped the floor with Sen. Casey in PA, Cao wiped the floor with Kane and the moderators in VA.
RCP has Trump up 281:257 – numerous polls now have Harris losing Michigan – and if that is correct – Trump does a clean sweep of the swing states.
Several Polls have Trump winning VA – and VA is definitely back in play thought it will be a reach – Cao’s performance helps himself and Trump.
McCormick’s performance helps himself and Trump.
It is highly unlikely that Trump will win NM, NJ, or NY – but it is very likely that they will be within low single digits.
All polls have Trump winning independents.
And you wig out because of AI memes making Vance more handsome ?
All memes make their favored candidate handsome.
There are body builder Biden memes – very few Trump memes do not portray him as fitter than Sylvester Stalone.
Harris is much more attractive in her favorable memes.
This is just politics.
Is some AI image slimming JD Vance – who is the only President/VP candidate that is actually attractive got your panties in a bunch ?
Further you are worried that women are going to vote for him because he is attractive ?
I thought Democrats beleived in the intelligence and ability of women ?
You want to run Altered image of Vance as a Troll ? Go for it.
It is not like Democrats did not start this stupid game.
I’m laughing so hard reading all the left postings here trying to justify big brother govt censorship and limits on free speech. The hypocrisy with the left here is legion. Look up Mike Benz and you will find multiple US govt agencies that have been using and weaponizing censorship across the globe. And since 2016 these alphabet fed fudd agencies have been using the same censorship , same disinformation and propaganda methods in the USA against our citizenry that they have used the world over to topple and or cripple govts they disagree with. Benz has ALL THE RECEIPTS. Not even a year ago the briben bitler regime floated the creation of a DISINFORMATION GOVERNANCE BOARD. Remember this fiasco people ?. A board destined to be staffed with three letter agency employees that had a mission to censor “disinformation” and push approved narratives. Whose propaganda and whom decided which was disinfo and by what standards…… big brother of course and the leftist apparatchik bureaucracies in DC….that’s whom. Kumswallah is totally fine with this kind of govt over reach…she has sold her soul long ago to do the bidding for the govt coin. Look at the slime of the deep state like war monger dick cheney loving on Kumsswallah….. this tells you she is nothing but a puppet and endorses the military and censorship industrial complexes completely. In fact she is their next chosen puppet.
Always fun seeing Goldman eat your lunch when you’re shilling for the right and slinging b.s. before Congress, Jon.
😂
It wasn’t Turkey’s lunch that Goldman ate, although he did take a giant bite out of a s–t burger.
Turley. G-d spell checker.
The thing about sh!t sandwiches is:
With a Republican there is alot more bread and a little less Chit.
With a Democrat there’s very little bread left as they have taken it for themselves, leaving you a pile of Sh!t to chew. So the moral of the story is, the more bread you have, the less sh!t You eat, vote accordingly or bona petite!
Dear Mr. Turley, thanks for your great article. With its printing in the USA Today, I hope it will reach a wide audience. By this publication, I hope the complaints against you about being a “shill” for the Fox Network will subside. It was a silly point to make, anyway. Democrats have only a two-prong argument to present to the American public: January 6th and abortion. That is a pretty thin platform. Both built and sold to us by lie upon lie. Whoever was snarky to GEB regarding a possible bedsore, he has just had a knee replaced and is limited in his movements. Sorry that this person is such a spoiled sport that they were unable to appreciate GEB’s humor. Keep writing Mr. Turley and GEB!!
He also has ‘opinion pieces’ published on the mostly Dem-leaning site The Hill.
The Hill is owned by conservatives…
Precisely!
Conservatives that support the Communist Manifesto, Karl Marx’s slogan, “From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs,” the “dictatorship of the proletariat,” aka the esteemed “hired help” and members of organized crime, aka “labor” unions, and various and sundry forms of leeches and parasites eschewing endeavor and inexorably pursuing other people’s money and status.
* hate the word- shill. Do you mean shield? What is the origin of this creepy word?
Just asking
Jonathan: If I didn’t know better I would suspect you are being paid by the DJT/JD Vance campaign to keep posting this nonsense that “Harris and Walz are the dream team for the anti-free speech movement”.
On Tuesday night we saw on full display how JD treats free speech. He refused to acknowledge DJT lost the 2020 election–endorsing the idea that the “free speech” rights of millions of voters could be taken away so DJT could remain in power. Vance tried his hand at revisionist history of Jan. 6 by falsely claiming his leader “peacefully gave over on January the 20th”. JD has also said that had he been in Pence’s shoes he would have “told the states” that we needed to have “multiple states electors”–contrary to the Constitution. JD refuses to acknowledge that the role of the VP is strictly ceremonial and has no power to reject legitimate electors. On Tuesday night JD “Shady” Vance demonstrated he is an apologist for all the crimes of DJT.
And we know what DJT has planned for a second term–the virtually abolition of “free speech” rights. He has openly said he would prosecute his political opponents–like Liz Cheney and Nancy Pelosi, to name just two. He has said he would revoked the broadcast licenses of NBC because the fact-checked him at the debate with Kamala Harris. He would do the same with other media outlets who might disagree with him. DJT has also threatened to prosecute Google because they carry stories he doesn’t like. And he has pledged to round up Haitian immigrants who are in the country legally and deport them back to “wherever they came from”. Their “free speech” rights don’t count for DJT. He even says he will reject the will of the voters if he loses in November.
Cory Brettschneider, political scientist and author of “The Presidents and the People” says about DJT: “Each of these threats by Trump would be a violation of the pledge a president makes to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution”. On Jan. 6 2021 DJT was willing to violate the Constitution by taking away the most important “free speech” right–the right of millions of voters to freely choose the president of their choice.
Despite your word salad column there are only two candidates who oppose free expression–and it’s not Harris and Walz!
‘Dennis’, who are YOU being paid by to post here?
What’s wrong, don’t like free speech?
Dems like you sure dont like free speech if it’s not your own jaded opinions.
Yes, many of us do not like the free speech of idiots.
And criticize it constantly.
As opposed to those on the left who address speech they do not like by using governent power unconstitutionally to supress it.
Dennis, so based on your comment, then the current Dems are removing all democrats right to free speech by installing a candidate that no one voted to have running for Pres!
“On Tuesday night we saw on full display how JD treats free speech. He refused to acknowledge DJT lost the 2020 election””
Correct, when there has been a proper investigation we can draw conclusions.
“endorsing the idea that the “free speech” rights of millions of voters could be taken away so DJT could remain in power.”
non sequitur.
“Vance tried his hand at revisionist history of Jan. 6″
Trump did not hit anyone on J6. He not only did not ask for violence he demanded peaceful conduct.
Further DAYS before it has been confirmed UNDER OATH, by multiple witnesses to 3 separate investigations – the Thomson/chenney J6 select committee, the DOD investigation, and the IG Horowitz investigation that:
Trump ORDERED the NG to be deployed to the Capital the instant that coul be constitutionally accomplished – that order was issued DAYS before J6.
The consitutional criteria as NOT met until approx 2:55 on J6 when Peolosi finally contacted DoD and allowed the NG to go to the capital.
The NG was in riot gear in bussses at the Armory waiting to be ordered to the capital – as per Trump’s earlier order – from 7am J6.
All Orders including Trump’s were logged by DOD, including orders passing down the chain of command. JCS, Sec Def, Asst Sec Def, Sec Army all ordered the NG to be prepared to go to the capital days in advance. They ordered the NG to the capital within minutes of permission from pelosi.
That order was delayed by a Major General in the army on the basis of Optics – as had been previously conveyed to DOD by …. Pelosi.
That stalled the order for 3 hrs. Walker and his forces went to the capital immediately on receiving the order. ‘
The absence of the NG on the morning of th J6 is attributable SOLELY to Pelosi.
The delay in dispatching the Ng on J6 is attributeable to Pelosi and a US Army Maj. General.
Everyone else did exactly as they were ordered by Trump.
Further confirmed with the barriers arround the capitol were removed about an hour prior to Trump speaking at the elipse and before any protestors arrived.
Those barriers were NOT removed by protestors. Atleast some testimony suggests they were removed by FBI agents and/or CHS’s.
The violence at the capital did NOT start until the CP acidentally tear gassed themselves and then lobbed tear gas into a peacefull crowd.
Protestors fled the tear gas in all directions – those nearest the capitol fled towards the entrance to the west tunnel – resulting in the violence that is repeatedly featured on TV.
Put simply the J6 protestors did not initiate violence.
There were no firearms present within the capital. There were no molotov cocktails, no frozen water bottles, no lasers, no fireworks, none of what is typically found at a protest that turns violent, much less a planned insurection.
Lying about J6 makes you look like the fool you are
” by falsely claiming his leader “peacefully gave over on January the 20th”. ”
Trump peacefully ceased to be president on Jan 20, 2021 at noon just as has ALWAYS occured.
“JD has also said that had he been in Pence’s shoes he would have “told the states” that we needed to have “multiple states electors””
Which is EXACTLY how the courts have determined the constitution resolves disputed elections.
“contrary to the Constitution.”
No according to the courts.
“JD refuses to acknowledge that the role of the VP is strictly ceremonial and has no power to reject legitimate electors.”
The US constitution has absolutely NO “Strictly cerimonial” powers.
This is an incredibly stupid claim that is rejected by the actions of democrats in every presidential election in my lifetime.
When Representatives rise to challenge the electoral results in various states that act confirms that:
Congress – which is presided over at the time by the VP has the power to accept or reject the electors that the State SoS claims are legitimate.
BTW that also means that congress can accept or reject alternates.
Further this has HAPPENED before – without any constitutional challenge – it is both obviously constitutional but presumptively constitutional by virtue of historical precedent.
Finally – it isboth clear in the constitution, and by history that CONGRESS is the final arbiter of an election and that they have the power to do anything they wish – see the history to th election of Jefferson the 3rd president of the united states.
You are pissing on Vance for CORRECTLY noting the role of the VP in the process of Congress determining the president of the united states.
This is obviously not a cerimonial process – and has resulted in real and bitter conflicts in congress in the past.
” On Tuesday night JD “Shady” Vance demonstrated he is an apologist for all the crimes of DJT”
On Tuesday Vance demonstrated that Harris has managed to pick a VP candidate stupider than she is.
While Vance performced eceptionally – Walz burned himself without any need for Vance.
“And we know what DJT has planned for a second term–the virtually abolition of “free speech” rights.”
No what we Know is that Trump will go after those who abused their constitutional power to abridge the free speech rights of others.
That is protecting free speech from tyrants.
“He has openly said he would prosecute his political opponents–like Liz Cheney and Nancy Pelosi, to name just two.” He has said he would revoked the broadcast licenses of NBC because the fact-checked him at the debate with Kamala Harris. He would do the same with other media outlets who might disagree with him. DJT has also threatened to prosecute Google because they carry stories he doesn’t like”
While these claims are false – Trump has NOT said any of this. What he has said is that he would be legally justified in doing things similar to this – which is correct.
As we have learned from the Massey committee on J6 – Cheney and Pelosi engaged in abuses of power to infringe on the rights of citizens – that is a criminal act.
While Trump has actually said he will NOT prosecute, he would be justified in doing so.
I would note that there is testimony under oath of the Biden/Harris administration acting in the ways you attributed to Trump.
One of the reasons that Turley considers the Biden/Harris administration the most anti-first amendment ever is because they have DONE the things you claim Trump might do.
“And he has pledged to round up Haitian immigrants who are in the country legally and deport them back to “wherever they came from”. ”
They did not come here legally – haitians do not qualify for assylum, and none of these were admitted under the lawful immigration lottery.
They all entered the US illegally, and remain under Temorary amnesty that will expire the moment Biden is no longer president.
They are here illegally and can easily be deported.
Many arrived through contries other than Haiti and can be deported to “wherever they came from”.
“Their “free speech” rights don’t count for DJT.”
No one has said that haitians can not speak freely.
What they can not do is remain in the US legally after their temporary amnesty ends.
“He even says he will reject the will of the voters if he loses in November.”
No he has said he will reject the results if there is election fraud – something many many democrats have said and done.
“Cory Brettschneider, political scientist and author of “The Presidents and the People” says about DJT: “Each of these threats by Trump would be a violation of the pledge a president makes to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution”. ”
Lets see a left wing non-legal scholar makes idiotic claims and that means WHAT exactly ?
“On Jan. 6 2021 DJT was willing to violate the Constitution”
Nope.
“by taking away the most important “free speech” right–the right of millions of voters to freely choose the president of their choice.”
Voting is neither a free speech nor first amendment right. This is an absurd claim. Is paying your taxes a free speech right ?
Not a single american has the right to freely choose the president of their choice. If we did Jo Jo Johnson would be president right now.
WE have the right to vote for a candidate for president. The majority of LAWFUL votes in our state determines the slate of electors from our state.
Presuing that a lawful majority can be established – in 2020, that was NOT accomlished in NV, AZ, GA, PA, MI and WI.
No proper investigation was conducted, the courts failed in their duty to confirm the election was lawful, and congress failed in its duty to only certify lawful votes of electors.
“Despite your word salad column there are only two candidates who oppose free expression–and it’s not Harris and Walz!”
The only word salad is yours.
You pretend the first amendment means both more and less than it does simultaineously
You conflate Trump’s statements that he would be JUSTIFIED in doint to those on the left what they have don to him with a committment that he has explicitly denied to actually do so.
Those who have actually done most of what you claim Trump says he will do are entirely on the left.
Most are in the current white house.
You seem to have omitted referring to the video that appears to show a Capital police officer planting the J6 pipe bombs.
Dennis is desperate and entirely bereft of confidence in the ascension of “President Ditz” and “Tampon Tim the Knucklehead-Cum-Idiot.”
Dennis bizarrely and erroneously believes his scattered meanderings herein will actually effect that outcome.
Actually, this is a piece of cake. The proof is in the pudding.
Tim Walz only needs to fact check through spock’s mind meld.
Here’s an example of why Turley’s argument about the ‘anti-free speech movement’ is nonsense. He’s also against free speech. He wrote a column in The Hill about NewsGuard and essentially complained that they were spreading misinformation about his blog and purposefully targeting conservative websites by ranking them and advising advertisers to scrutinize these sites before choosing to advertise on them. He was upset that NewsGuard was scrutinizing his blog and asked why he does not identify as a conservative, despite the majority of his columns being right-leaning and highly critical of the left.
In his book, Turley argues that private rating companies should be regulated, claiming that they are essentially government proxies due to past government grants. However, this assertion is unfounded. When these companies exercise their right to free speech by rating and labeling conservative sites or blogs as unreliable, Turley deems it as anti-free speech. He goes as far as to propose legislation to restrict these companies from influencing advertisers’ decisions. This, in essence, is an attack on free speech.
Turley contends that ranking sites amounts to censorship since it discourages people from visiting them. He points to GDI, an organization that compiles an index of sites spreading misinformation, labeling conservative sites as the worst offenders. Turley opposes such organizations, claiming they are part of the “anti-free speech movement” for blacklisting conservative sites. However, this too is a form of free speech in action. These private rating companies have the right to express their opinions, even if it means advising advertisers against associating with certain conservative sites.
Ironically, Turley’s call for legislation to regulate these companies mirrors the very behavior he criticizes in others. It’s important to recognize the hypocrisy in his stance.
George, your interpretive skills are lacking. Again. You wasted 30 bucks on a book.
BTW, can we see your book please?
Huh? What are you trying to say? Perhaps you should elaborate.
The syntax of Svelaz’s words doesn’t appear to match his writing. I wouldn’t take notice or comment if this occurred once or a few times, but it happens frequently, and the words spoken appear to be above his depth.
I can’t be sure, but I note two areas where Svelaz’s lack of ability causes changes (syntax, etc.) that demonstrate his words are likely plagiarized or pure AI. Sometimes, not now, one can see conflicting ideas in his statements because, lacking knowledge, he is using someone else’s brain to explain his statements.
1: “In his book,” he calls Truley’s assumptions unfounded and then follows with what sounds like someone else’s words.
2. “Turley opposes” Then he explains the opposition to organizations like GDI.
It would make little difference to me if he plagiarized or used AI if his views were consistent and could be defended. He can’t protect his views, so he requires another to say something intelligent to prove his point today. Will that point be discarded tomorrow when he makes an opposing explanation?
Look at the writing between his references to Turley, and one can get an idea when the use of someone else’s words starts. In the latter episode, Svelaz ended his statement.
I make this statement because others have indicated the same. Davey even showed where Svelaz plagiarized from and provided the citation.
S. Meyer, I always find it amusing how you never seem to make any sense. I want to clarify that I do not plagiarize or use AI. It’s pretty evident that you struggle to comprehend most of the material you read, especially when it comes to complex issues and writing that goes beyond a 5th-grade level. Instead of making an effort to understand, you opt to attack and belittle, perhaps because it’s easier than expressing your own opinion without resorting to insults and personal attacks.
” I want to clarify that I do not plagiarize or use AI. “
Svelaz, you lie about your name and about plagiarizing. You don’t read the written word, for I said you plagiarized, and Darvey again exposed you. I can’t prove AI, but I can find it highly probable because so many of your posts in the past appear to contain AI. Compare the portions of this past response and see if you can’t see the evidence of AI yourself. Maybe you can make it less evident in the future, but without adequate comprehension, will your words say the same thing?
https://jonathanturley.org/2024/09/16/teaching-joy-l-a-school-district-opts-for-educational-enjoyment-over-standardized-tests/comment-page-2/#comment-2444784
You lie about everything, which this blog points out daily. You pretend to be knowledgeable but fail at facts.
https://jonathanturley.org/2024/08/29/the-wild-ride-pennsylvania-democrat-declares-that-she-is-outraged-devastated-in-conflicting-letters-on-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-2440145
Nothing I am saying here has not been said before by many others on this blog. You may now resume your lies and stupidity.
S. Meyer, I’m not Svelaz; I can’t understand why you or anyone else is fixated on that person. Whatever that individual did must have made quite an impact to provoke such obsessive behavior. Who exactly is Darvey?
“ I can’t prove AI, but I can find it highly probable because so many of your posts in the past appear to contain AI.”
You are not making any sense. Your claims are unsubstantiated and rely on assumptions. Resorting to personal attacks and ad hominem arguments only weakens your position. It seems like you are struggling to communicate effectively and support your points with evidence.
Svelaz, you have to be awfully dumb to want your plagiarism and lies highlighted. Below is Davey’s entire response, proving you are a plagiarist and a liar. Anyone looking at your comments can see how many of your written ideas conflict with one another, and the higher-level ideas are likely IA. You are too dumb to do anything better.
Thank you for permitting me to show you as a dunce for a second time and to quote Davey.
…
“Davey says: September 16, 2024 at 3:36 PM
“Good teacher observation, documentation of student work, and performance-based assessment, all of which involve the direct evaluation of real learning tasks, provide useful material for teachers, parents, and the public. Many nations that do the best in international comparisons, like Finland, use these techniques instead of large-scale standardized testing.”
Every word copied and pasted from HERE:
https://fairtest.org/facts-whatwron-htm/
Svelaz the plagiarizing liar has no idea if its true or not.
Watch out, he also likes to quote Jimmy Fallon.”
While the comparisons are ridiculous – e.g., the Internet is a crowded theater and lies are the equivalent of shouting “Fire” – I still would like to know why someone is permitted to shout Fire! in a crowded theater if there is no fire? That seems likely to cause public disorder and injuries, which in turn would make it Disorderly Conduct or False Public Alarms.* I’m an avid First Amendment fan, but that provision does not protect this type of behavior.
—
*Model Penal Code:
§250.3: False Public Alarms – A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if he initiates or circulates a report or warning of an impending bombing or other crime or catastrophe, knowing that the report or warning is false or baseless and that it is likely to cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transport, or to cause public inconvenience or alarm.
§250.2: Disorderly Conduct – (1) Offense Defined. A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he: (a) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or (b) makes unreasonable noise or offensively coarse utterance, gesture or display, or addresses abusive language to any person present; or (c) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor. “Public” means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access; among the places included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons, apartment houses, places of business or amusement, or any neighborhood.
Hi!
I am currently listening to Mr. Turley’s speech at the Ron Paul Institute back in August 2024 that was posted on the Lewrockwell.com forum this morning.
His speech was great, and I will purchase his book.
Furthermore, I would like to add something that helps ordinary people understand free speech and perhaps some professionals.
Speech is a bodily process, and most of it happens internally; body language is mostly external = a pair of opposite = the duality of Nature and Nature’s God.
If someone or something can stop anyone from engaging in speech, what does that make you?
A slave!
Why?
Who then “owns” your body if you are NOT allow speech of any kind? Or if you are ONLY allowed accepted (conditions) speech?
If you can’t hate, then you can’t love either.
If NO speech is allowed, then you become a statue.
If someone or something can stop anyone from engaging in speech, by what delegation of authority does that person or thing operate from?
Can this happen in a “free” government?
Is all power inherent in the people as the Maine constitution says – see Art. 1, Sec. 2.
Constitutions do NOT provide any rights as the people ALREADY have them according to the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God.
Constitutions ONLY “secure” those rights which the people already possess.
Hate is NOT a crime. It never can be.
It is a bodily process. Is your body your own? Or does it belong to someone else or something else = slavery?
Everyone is free to hate but NOT to use it to violate the rights of others = certain behaviors.
It is the behavior(s) that needs to be examined as to whether a crime was committed against others.
Hope this helps.
Thank you!
Lise from Maine (former licensed clinician)
what ever happened to “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”??????
It’s been replaced by STFU.
Turley’s complaints about an alleged anti-free speech ‘movement’ are greatly exaggerated. It’s expected that he would use hyperbole and misleading characterizations of what candidates and university professors are saying without providing proper context.
Turley seems to be either misunderstanding how free speech works or simply pandering to the gullibility and naivety of his readers. I bet it’s the latter. His recent columns have the tone of an infomercial salesman trying hard to make a sale on a product destined for the bargain bin at your local Walmart.
Turley’s arguments against the ‘anti-free speech movement’ appear contradictory and seem to have a singular purpose: promoting his book and appealing to the MAGA crowd and conspiracy theorists who already believe in a massive conspiracy against them or that the far left is plotting against their very lives. I get why Turley writes columns geared to the easily spooked and gullible. They are the easiest to convince and don’t require much effort to keep around as loyal readers.
Just like gigi, as fellow commenters call out your falsehoods and incorrect statements, you become more angry and hostile in your posts. you fool no one.
Angry? You must be very confused. I think YOU are the one who is angry and hostile. All your reponses to my posts are pure ad homimen attacks and insults. Project much?
“All your responses…”
George, if you are trying to track my responses, you are more a fool than I thought.
No, I am not angry at all, because anger implies that what you said “hits home” with its truth.
Instead I laugh at your numerous attempts to discredit Turley, despite your very very very limited and narrow understanding of the topic material.
I’m just highlighting Turley’s hypocrisy on free speech, which is fair game. It appears that you are bothered by my criticism of Turley’s position, and in defending him, you resort to ad hominem attacks and insults. It seems like there may be an anger problem on your end. Regarding your issues with reading comprehension, it shouldn’t be surprising that you resort to attacks and insults because you lack an actual rebuttal.
HAHAHA George! Are these examples (below) from you “discussing the issues with reading comprehension?”
–Or are they ad hom attacks on Turley?
From George:
“Turley seems to be either misunderstanding how free speech works or simply pandering to the gullibility and naivety of his readers… His recent columns have the tone of an infomercial salesman trying hard to make a sale on a product destined for the bargain bin at your local Walmart.”
“Turley’s complaints…are greatly exaggerated. It’s expected that he would use hyperbole and misleading characterizations”
“Here’s an example of why Turley’s argument about the ‘anti-free speech movement’ is nonsense”
So you are confused by what criticism looks like. I’m not surprised.
a clown pretending to be more knowledgeable than Turley on “speech.” Using big words that you learned on this site do not do you well, George.
Pretending? I guess because of your reading comprehension problem you think criticism is ‘pretending’. Hilarious.
* George, I don’t mean to offend you but some of these guys are smarter than you including Turley.
Just fyi
* if I were a young female I’d sterilize myself rather than have children in hell.
Trump is a Christian ticket. Do you really think that’s gunna fly?
Thanks fir the articles professor Turley.
* for. Smh
Keep women affordable, available, reusable, and taxable, and the carbon-based “burden” of evidence sequestered in sanctuary states, along with the male sex who identify as the feminine gender in girls’ safe spaces… in their faces. It’s not hell, it’s progress: one step forward, two steps backward under the Pro-Choice ethical religion of a Democratic State.
* you’re a beast and expected. You’re words are dead words.
The politics of “joy” while they’re promoting an evisceration of our constitutional rights. This is cult talk. It mesmerizes the masses while these charlatans steal everything we have. Walz was a terrible governor, and he’d be an even worse VP because not only is he a clueless hick from Minnesota, but he’s a clueless hick who is suddenly thrust into the big time in DC and will feel he has to prove himself. He’ll be twice as belligerent in foreign affairs, and worse than any Democrat on domestic issues. The guy is out of his depth, but then, so is Kamala.
Were the (unfortunate) need to arise, I could not envision a “President Walz”. We all should think carefully before we vote.
Evisceration of our Constitution makes me mad. Why can’t they do what Trump said to do and just terminate the parts they don’t like?
The far-right takes out parts of the Constitution they don’t like, as much as the so-called Christians take out parts of the Bible they don’t like.
Notice any of this going on, especially with border issues?
The Cloward-Piven Theory:
Overload a system
Create mass panic and hysteria as the system is overloaded
Oversee the destruction of the system
Replace the former system with a new system
Beck exposed and explained their entire network of anarchy as Obama was installed.
ACORN
Paul Rudd
What we are living is the result of all the spoiled privileged student communists generated out of the Vietnam War era being positioned into the high level bureaucracy of our government. Bill Ayers style terrorists that were injected into academia and political hierarchy to spread their disease.
Is Putin a threat to the free speech of the Russians?