Proposition 36, which increases punishments for some retail theft and drug possession offenses, overwhelmingly passed in California despite the opposition of Gov. Gavin Newsom and most Democrats. Newsom denounced the measure as something that “takes us back to the 1980s, mass incarceration.” Despite discussing her tough-on-crime record in the election, Vice President Kamala Harris refused to support the measure or even state if she voted for it. Now, however, two shoplifters may have given the law the greatest endorsement.
The Seal Beach Police Department in California released a video of three alleged shoplifters who seemed shocked to learn that the state was now cracking down on the rampant shoplifting in the state.
The video from the store shows the three casually stealing from an Ulta Beauty store with what police said was nearly $650 worth of stolen merchandise.
The police then released what is described as “… a friendly reminder that Proposition 36, which increases punishments for some retail theft and drug possession offenses, went into effect Wednesday morning in California.”
One alleged shoplifter was shocked to find out some shoplifting offenses are now considered a felony in California.
“It’s a felony?” one of the women asks the other in the back of the patrol car.
“B—h new laws,” the woman responds. “Stealing is a felony and this Orange County b—h. They don’t play.”
That could well be the next slogan for tough-on-crime measures in the state.
I have previously written about the lack of deterrence for shoplifting in cities like San Francisco and New York.
The fact is that most criminals are rational actors who make a calculus of risk in the commission of offenses. The mobs hitting stores like Bloomingdales are organized gangs. Even shoplifters stealing from stores like Costco and Target are known to quickly sell the goods on the internet through fences.
In 1968, University of Chicago economist Gary Becker wrote his famous article, “Crime and Punishment,” in which he argued that criminals make calculations based on the certainty and the severity of punishment. If you increase the certainty or likelihood of punishment, you can achieve deterrence with lower levels of punishment. Conversely, if there is a low detection rate for crime, you can deter some crimes with higher levels of punishment.
This shoplifter seems to be working out that calculus of risk belatedly in the back of a patrol car.
Jonathan Turley is the Shapiro professor of public interest law at George Washington University and the author of “The Indispensable Right: Free Speech in an Age of Rage.”
Having the Justice system across the country go down the change in California will now have people arrested and jailed quicker, but likely still not end up in prison. The previous rules of repeat criminals being put into prison in California I believe was stopped.
Regarding this statement by Prof. Turley: “The fact is that most criminals are rational ACTORS…” Don’t forget that many thieves–including the ones described in this article–are women, hence some of those criminals are rational ACTRESSES!
Are there no workhouses, are there no prisons?
“One in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction ” How did this statistic happen? Just what better sign for cultural deterioration than this. History shows that large groups of people in the confined space of urban areas need restrictions on actions and enforcement of those laws in order for an ordered society to function. We are seeing the results in certain areas of our nation of the anthropological experiments of the faculty lounge progs who come up with these lame concepts without any attachment to reality (see The Great Society legislation as a reference) and the results are always a misstep. The progs think that they can ignore and debase all the accumulated wisdom of millennia of cultural experiences that illustrate plainly just what is needed for a cohesive society but our pseudo-intellectuals have done to social culture what they did to art and music – make it dysfunctional.
You said:
One in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction : This sounds very wrong. what is the truth and where do you think this number came from?
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
The claim that “one in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction” might seem exaggerated or contextually misleading, but it originates from studies and reports about the prevalence of contact with the criminal justice system in the United States. Here’s what this statistic likely means and where it may come from:
The Truth Behind the Statistic:
Broad Definitions of Arrest and Conviction:
The statistic often includes any kind of arrest or conviction, from minor offenses (like traffic violations) to serious felonies. This broad definition inflates the number compared to focusing only on serious crimes.
An arrest does not necessarily mean a conviction, and many arrests do not lead to charges or result in dropped cases.
Sources of the Statistic:
A frequently cited study is from the National Employment Law Project (NELP), which analyzed data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and other sources. These studies estimate that about 70 million people in the U.S. have some form of a criminal record, which could range from arrests to convictions.
Other studies may include people who have had any interaction with the justice system, even for non-criminal matters, further inflating the number.
Demographics and Context:
The statistic may focus on “working-age adults” (generally defined as 18-64 years old) to contextualize its impact on employability and societal integration.
Some studies highlight racial and socioeconomic disparities in arrests and convictions, especially due to systemic issues like over-policing in marginalized communities.
Where the Number May Have Come From:
Data Aggregation: It’s derived by estimating the total number of people who have ever been arrested or convicted over their lifetime and comparing it to the total working-age population.
Misinterpretations: Media or advocacy groups may present these numbers in ways that are more dramatic to highlight specific issues, such as barriers to employment for people with criminal records.
The Reality of Interpretation:
While it’s true that a significant portion of the population has had some contact with the justice system, this does not mean one-third of adults are “criminals.” The statistic is a combination of all criminal records, including minor infractions and cases where charges were not pursued.
Verification:
Would you like me to locate the most recent and authoritative studies or statistics to validate this claim? It can help clarify whether this number is accurate or if it has been misrepresented.
You said:
yes
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
The assertion that “one in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction” is based on data indicating that a significant portion of the U.S. adult population has some form of criminal record. Here’s a breakdown of the statistics and their origins:
Prevalence of Criminal Records:
General Estimates: Reports suggest that between 70 million and 100 million Americans have a criminal record, equating to approximately one in three adults.
THE SENTENCING PROJECT
FBI Data: As of June 30, 2017, the FBI’s database included records for about 73.5 million individuals, representing roughly 29.5% of the U.S. adult population.
POLITIFACT
Definitions and Considerations:
Scope of “Criminal Record”: The term encompasses a wide range of interactions with the criminal justice system, from arrests that did not lead to convictions to serious felony convictions. Notably, many individuals with criminal records have never been convicted of a serious crime.
BRENNAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE
Impact of Arrests: Including arrests that did not result in convictions broadens the pool of individuals considered to have a criminal record, contributing to the higher estimates.
Implications:
Employment Challenges: Possessing a criminal record can create significant barriers to employment, housing, and other opportunities, even when the offenses are minor or occurred many years ago.
CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS
Policy Considerations: Understanding the broad definition of “criminal record” is crucial for policymakers and employers when considering background checks and the reintegration of individuals into society.
Conclusion:
While the statistic that one in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction may seem surprising, it reflects the broad criteria used to define “criminal records” in the United States. This includes a wide spectrum of legal encounters, from minor arrests without convictions to serious offenses. Recognizing this context is essential for informed discussions about criminal justice reform and societal reintegration.
Exploring the Impact of Criminal Records on American Lives
The Atlantic
My Criminal Record Somehow Vanished
133 days ago
Sources
You said:
“One in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction ”
Whimsical, this quote which has a basis demonstrates how important the selection process is when deriving results or calculating numbers. One could probably derive that number many times but none of them will lead to what is in the minds of people after reading that quote. This is my response to another. Can you make sure the words are right and improve it.
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Here’s an improved version of your response that refines the wording for clarity and impact:
“One in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction.”
This statement, while based on data, highlights the critical importance of the selection process when deriving results or calculating figures. The same number could be calculated in numerous ways, yet none would truly align with the interpretation most people form upon reading that quote.
You said: “blah blah blah blah”
Chat GPT says:
Trolls on the internet often engage in deceptive behavior to provoke, annoy, or manipulate others. Here are some common tactics they use:
1. **False Identities**: Trolls frequently create fake profiles or use pseudonyms to hide their true identities. This anonymity allows them to act without fear of repercussions.
2. **Misinformation**: They may spread false information or conspiracy theories to mislead others. This can involve altering facts, quoting out of context, or fabricating stories entirely.
3. **Provocative Statements**: Trolls often make outrageous or inflammatory comments designed to elicit strong emotional reactions from others. This can include hate speech, personal attacks, or controversial opinions.
4. **Manipulation of Context**: They may take comments or posts out of context to distort the original meaning, making it easier to provoke outrage or confusion.
5. **Impersonation**: Some trolls impersonate others, including public figures or friends, to create confusion or damage reputations.
6. **Gaslighting**: Trolls may engage in gaslighting, making others doubt their perceptions or feelings. This can involve denying previous statements or actions, leading victims to question their own reality.
7. **Creating Division**: By exploiting sensitive topics, trolls can create divisions within communities, pitting groups against each other and fostering hostility.
8. **Using Bots**: Some trolls employ automated accounts (bots) to amplify their messages, making it seem like there is widespread support for their views or to drown out opposing voices.
9. **Exploiting Emotions**: Trolls often target emotional triggers, such as fear, anger, or sadness, to manipulate discussions and provoke reactions.
10. **Disruption of Conversations**: They may derail constructive discussions by introducing irrelevant topics or engaging in off-topic debates, making it difficult for others to communicate effectively.
These tactics can have serious consequences, including spreading misinformation, damaging reputations, and creating toxic online environments. It’s important for internet users to be aware of these behaviors and to approach online interactions critically.
The “Crime and Punishment” calculation only applies to persons with a certain level of intelligence and self-control. Any potential shoplifter in Southern CA would know to commit his/her crimes in Los Angeles County, not Orange County. At least one of these young women knew that “Orange County don’t play,” but chose to take the risk anyway.
Probably came from Wrong Beach and accidentally crossed the city limit line.
b–h humbug.
Since I am having some lucidity today, I recall that after George Floyd died of his overdose, there was an outpouring of Virtue Signalling by many companies and organizations. JPMorgan was one of them. In a sop to the African-American Community, Chase determined to hire some folks with criminal records! (Talk about a left-handed compliment!) Apparently, that program continues!
“JPMorgan Chase is committed to giving people with arrest or conviction histories a second chance by supporting their reentry into the workforce, communities, and local economies. One in three working-age adults has an arrest or conviction creating significant barriers to employment and economic opportunity for a substantial number of Americans.
Policymakers and businesses increasingly recognize that providing education, skills training, and employment opportunities to people with arrest or conviction histories helps reduce recidivism, increase public safety, build stronger communities, and strengthen the economy. JPMorgan Chase is reducing barriers to employment and economic opportunity for people with criminal backgrounds through its hiring practices, its philanthropy, and by advocating for federal and state policy changes.”
https://www.jpmorganchase.com/content/dam/jpmc/jpmorgan-chase-and-co/documents/jpmc-policycenter-overview-v1-ada.pdf
* nah, they don’t change. They just work from a higher platform all the way up to congress where the rainbow and leprechauns with the magical pot of gold.
* play. Tsk tsk
The “soft on crime” policy, hypocritically touted by Democrats as their attempt to correct a racist judicial system, was in fact a subliminal message by Democrats to certain groups–ethnic voting groups–that they can fleece the system without accountability or punishment if only they vote blue.
I think that there ought to be a “Shoot The Shoplifter” law. Which, would permit the use of force, including deadly force, to prevent shoplifters from walking out with merchandise. I doubt the passage of such a law would result in very many shootings, but the deterrent effect would probably be outstanding.
That being said, even shooting some of these rascals does not result in lessons being learned. Right after Saint Trayvon of the Concrete Slab was deleted, there was a shooting in the New Orleans. Marshall Coulter, a 14-year-old black yute, was shot in the head by a homeowner. Coulter had a history of burglaries, and when shot, lay semi-paralyzed for a while.
“A homeowner said he shot a 14-year-old boy because he thought the teen was trying to break into his house. But police said the teen was unarmed and did not pose an “imminent threat” when he was shot early Friday and have charged the owner with attempted second-degree murder.
The family of Marshall Coulter said the teenager, who was shot in the head, could move only the right side of his body a little, but not the left. Doctors told the family that if Coulter survives, he would likely be severely brain damaged.
Coulter’s family acknowledged the teen’s history of burglary arrests but said he had never used a gun.”
It took a while, but I found the story.
https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/unarmed-teen-shot-inside-homeowners-fenced-yard-but-not-breaking-into-home-nopd-warrant-says/article_7ac12b69-efab-536d-833a-5b5ffd010ff1.html
But, Coulter recovered, and went right back to breaking and entering and burgling. Seven years later, Coulter dies, allegedly from complications of being shot – and from the following link, we learn-
“Back in 2013, NOPD arrested Landry and charged him with attempted second-degree murder. After a grand jury failed to reach a decision on the case in 2014, District Attorney Leon Cannizzaro called off the prosecution. He did so weeks after Coulter was accused of burglarizing homes after surviving the gunshot wound.
https://www.wdsu.com/article/marigny-homeowner-could-face-new-charges-in-2013-stand-your-ground-shooting/35196605
Good to see CA voters still have a degree of common sense. Does not seem like Newsome or most other Democrats do.
“Good to see CA voters still have a degree of common sense.”
– UF
Seriously? There are almost no Americans left in California, and there is no California. It’s MexAfricAsia. California was invaded and conquered. America itself is down to about 71% American and falling.
AI Overview
According to the most recent US Census data, the white population in California is around 34.3% of the total population, specifically referring to those identifying as “White alone, not Hispanic or Latino.”.
Key points about California’s demographics:
Decreasing White population:
The percentage of white residents in California has significantly decreased over time, with a current figure around 34.3%.
Largest ethnic group:
The largest ethnic group in California is Hispanic or Latino, making up a larger percentage of the population than non-Hispanic whites.
“criminals make calculations based on the certainty and the severity of punishment. If you increase the certainty or likelihood of punishment, you can achieve deterrence with lower levels of punishment.”
This statement is not accepted by the ‘prisons are institutions of rehabilitation’ crowd. Nor is it accepted by the ‘severity and likelihood of punishment does not deter offenders in the most atrocious of crimes’ crowd. Those crowds happens to live mostly blue states and some members are even governors apparently.
Theoretical questions:
A. Do you think a senator would steal secret documents from a secure government site, improperly store those documents and then sell the information contained in those documents to a publisher in order to secure personal gain if he/she/they/them knew that punishment consisting of prison, fines and confiscation of property was certain?
B. Do you think a very high ranking government official would extort a foreign country in order to secure protection from investigation of his/her/they/them family’s criminal activities if he/she/they/them knew that punishment consisting of prison, fines and confiscation of property was certain for both the underlying crimes AND the extortion?
C. Do you think that the individuals noted in the first two theoretical questions would be influenced in their decision making on ANY given matter by the lack of “certainty or likelihood of punishment” they experienced in their own criminal activities?
While they were arrested, I’m afraid in California they will be released with no punishment, no time in jail, no restitution. What we need is for these types of minor felonies is weekends in jail if they are juveniles (so they can still go to school during the week) and real jail time if they are adults to deter them in the future and publicize their incarceration to deter others.
Now, imagine when Shaneeka and Lakeesha here get probation, or diversion, and are back on the streets. They go to get a job, and their potential employer is, as a practical matter, not permitted to run a criminal background check on them. There is a link below to the rigmarole about this in California, and other states.
Sooo, Shaneeka goes to work for Pizzas R Us! You, desiring an anchovy-laden pineapple, avocado and spinach pizza, call in to Pizzas R Us!, for a delivery order, and Shaneeka takes your order for you. You give Shaneeka your name, credit card number, CVV code and zip code. What fun! Then, two weeks later, there is a $1,500 charge on your credit card to Miss Ebony’s House of Wigs and Booty Implants – – – (This kind of thing has happened to me several times.)
Meanwhile, Lakeesha, gets a job at the local Hoodies and Sweat Pants store, as a cashier. Amazing how often Shaneeka shops there, and walks out with free samples! And, Lakeesha’s mother, grandmother and great grandmother!
https://ccresourcecenter.org/state-restoration-profiles/california-restoration-of-rights-pardon-expungement-sealing/#IV_Criminal_record_in_employment_licensing
First of all don’t give anyone access to your actual bank account/s. Set up a separate debit account where you purchase stuff online or over the phone. Move the amount of money for the purchase before you pull the trigger on the sale. So now the thieves have a card on which they can get nothing. If you have a decent bank they will inform you of attempts to use your separate account. This will save you a tremendous amount of grief.
Good advice. FWIW, I ordered the pizza here, in the middle part of the country, and the charge appeared in either Arizona or California. Somebody here either sold the info, or told an accomplice there, the info.
This sort of stuff is fixable, but nobody much cares. It is just a cost of doing business. Plus, they don’t make enough jail cells for the number of criminals we have. IMHO, we need to have capital punishment for habitual offenders – three shoplifting charges, and off with your head. But, our society would never go for that, and if it did, judges would balk, sooo we will spin away into oblivion one of these years.
* from whom will they steal when no one has anything? Broken down cars and houses stripped for wire and fire wood. They’ll dream of the good old days and the biggest heist legendary.
Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die…then it’s worse.
Floyd: Bingo! Turley attached the photos of these women to today’s little slime piece to evoke exactly the kind of racist BS that you MAGAs believe in. There was absolutely no reason to post their photos other than to pander to the overt racism of MAGAs like you. And, it’s Christmas Eve! And, MAGA teaches you that it’s Democrats who are evil and judgmental. Turley left shame behind a long time ago.
Gigi was channeling madly back and forth like a drunk whore on crutches with this one!
There was absolutely no reason to post their photos other than to pander to the overt racism of MAGAs like you.
Gigi, would it be racist if a dirty white boy promised Identity Politics voters and the Congressional Black Racist Caucus:
“If you elect me as your candidate, I will only allow colored people who can prove they have a colored vagina to be my Vice President running mate.
TWO CONDITIONS!
1. SKIN COLOR MUST BE BLACK OR BROWN.
2. A BLACK OR BROWN VAGINA MUST BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT!
ALL OTHERS NEED NOT APPLY.
Gigi, you angry Democrat slut, your two brain cells rattle around inside your skull like a pair of BBs rolling around in an empty rail box car.
Old Airborne Dog
I guess this just means that the DA’s will be releasing felons back onto the streets?
* yeah, but at least they create all those tax laden jobs…
Trump’s been released hasn’t he? He’s a felon 34 times over.
* one crime. Alleged.
Every payment counted presumably … Mr. Cohen had to repay his HELOC.
I think the idea of deterrence was established somewhere back in the dim mists of time. I think that is why they had public executions like hangings and the guillotine and usually in the public square. Also I think that was where they had the stocks placed for the more minor infractions. There is the inconvenience of prison, the humiliation of public exposure and shaming. I think that is one of the reasons the constitution guarantees a speedy trial (although we have a lot of work to do there).
You can also apply this to dealing with nation states. Strength is usually a means of non violently saying to a potential aggressor “ok, go ahead and try that, but I guarantee you it will hurt badly. You might even lose body parts if not your life”.
Not dealing with criminals is just like using appeasement with nation states. It’s all about calculus.
Saying “Don’t” is not policy with nation states. It’s just wasted breath.
It seems that about every 30-40 years or so we have to relearn that the truisms of history are TRUE.
* not if the truisms have been erased, scrubbed.
Btw 40 is the age for president. Scrubbed.
And the mystery of why Donald Trump won re-election is solved!
Nope. 78% of voters said that lowering grocery prices was the most important issue to them. Trump LIED about delivering an immediate sharp drop in grocery prices. His “victory “ was by a margin of only 1.48%—less than 2%. And 1.7% of voters voted for neither Trump nor Harris. Biden still holds the record for the most popular votes ever.
Is it forbidden to suggest that some people have a propensity to commit crimes?
Not in my world.
* Yes, forbidden.
Voting Democrat is EVIL!
“Stealing is a felony and this Orange County b—h. They don’t play.”
That should be on the police car doors instead of protect and serve.
if government officials aren’t protecting businesses and people….they need to be JAILED!
WE need to stop giving into the Democrat Criminal Party!
Thou shalt not steal, b—h!
LOL
😂