For years, some of us in the free speech community have warned about the threat of the European Union to free speech, particularly in the enactment of the infamous Digital Services Act (DSA). The EU has virtually declared war on free speech and is targeting American companies. That war just began with the first DSA fine. Not surprisingly, X was the chosen target — a company blamed by many in the EU and the U.S. for rolling back free-speech protections.
In a historic speech in Munich this year, Vice President J.D. Vance confronted the Europeans over their attacks on free speech, declaring, “If you are running in fear of your own voters, there is nothing America can do for you.” However, the EU has long worked in conjunction with many on the American left in seeking to force companies to censor Americans.
One of the lowest moments came after Elon Musk bought Twitter on a pledge to restore free-speech protections. Clinton called upon European officials to force Elon Musk to censor American citizens under the DSA. This is a former democratic presidential nominee calling upon Europeans to force the censorship of Americans.
She was joined by another former democratic presidential nominee, John Kerry, who called for government crackdowns on free speech.
In my book on free speech and various columns, I write about the DSA as one of the greatest assaults on free speech in history. As I wrote in the book:
“Under the DSA, users are ’empowered to report illegal content online, and online platforms will have to act quickly.’ This includes speech that is viewed not only as ‘disinformation’ but also ‘incitement.’ European Commission Executive Vice President Margrethe Vestager has been one of the most prominent voices seeking international censorship. At the passage of the DSA, Vestager was ecstatic in declaring that it is ‘not a slogan anymore, that what is illegal offline should also be seen and dealt with as illegal online. Now it is a real thing. Democracy’s back.’”
After the Vance speech, American politicians and journalists quickly added their voices of condemnation. CBS anchor Margaret Brennan confronted Secretary of State Marco Rubio to suggest that Vance’s support for free speech was outrageous because he was “standing in a country where free speech was weaponized to conduct a genocide.” Brennan’s bizarre suggestion that free speech contributed to the death camps was amplified by Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA), who accused Vance of using “some of the same language that Hitler used to justify the Holocaust.”
In the wake of the Munich speech, leading anti-free-speech figures from around the world gathered at the World Forum in Berlin. I was one of the few speakers from the free-speech community at the conference which declared “A New World Order with European Values.” Various Americans were present to reaffirm the worst about the United States as a nation descending into tyranny.
The two most celebrated figures were Bill and Hillary Clinton, who also criticized the current Administration.
After returning from Berlin, I testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee and warned about the growing threat to free speech posed by the use of the DSA.
Since then, the EU has moved forward with its aggressive campaign against U.S. companies and figures who refuse to yield to its expansive censorship demands.
This is the first fine under the DSA and the EU officials acknowledged that it will lay the foundation for additional penalties to come to force companies to comply with EU “values” on free speech.
The European Commission has imposed a €120 million ($140 million) fine on X after finding that it misled users with its paid-for blue checkmark verification symbol, failed to provide researchers with access to data, and did not properly set up an advertising repository. X has 60 days to develop solutions to address the issues and 90 days to implement the changes, or it may face additional fines.
Under the DSA, the EU can impose fines of up to 6% of an online platform’s annual global revenue for failing to address illegal content, disinformation, or transparency requirements. It is still investigating X as well as several other major US tech firms, including Apple, Google, and Meta, under the DSA and the Digital Markets Act. This includes investigations for failing to carry out demands for censorship, including of American citizens.
This is just the first salvo in a war that some of us have warned is coming. We cannot be passive at this moment. The EU is threatening the very indispensable right that has long defined us as a people. Many in the United States are rooting for the Europeans to roll back free-speech protections at X and Meta. Some have appeared before the EU to call for this type of action. They could use the EU to achieve abroad what they have failed to accomplish in the United States. The results will be the same for Americans, who will find themselves subject to European censors and “values.”
More Fascism in Germany [they do seem to like it there] as the government bans candidates from an opposition party from the ballot.
https://www.eugyppius.com/p/the-entire-state-of-rheinland-pfalz
Our Democrat party Fascists have been trying the same here.
As I said earlier this very smart and very fast moving administration wouldn’t quietly accept EU censorship of Americans.
Marco Rubio:
https://x.com/SecRubio/status/1996974377003319667
What a great choice for a common sense, can do administration.
I would like to see him as President one day.
Rubio’s words need to be followed by Actions.
What Brazil has done with respect to US social media is unconscioneable.
Biden cheered the fascists in power in Brazil on.
I had hoped to see Trump do something about Brazil by now.
I will be happier when Rubio backs up words with actions.
John,
Perhaps Rubio can do with members of the EU behind this offense what he did with Special Rapporteur Albanese.
https://www.state.gov/releases/2025/07/sanctioning-lawfare-that-targets-u-s-and-israeli-persons
She said it has made her life hell. UN and ‘Human Rights’ folk are protesting so it must hurt.
A little hell for anyone in the EU who pushes fines or censorship on US companies might be an easy and salutary remedy.
There is alot that Trump and Rubio CAN do – what I want to see is what they DO.
I have criticised the left repeatedly for micro parsing what Trump says. and ignoring what he does.
But that goes TWO ways. I am happy that Vance earlier and Rubio now are verbally championing free speech in the face of a hostile EU.
But what they DO is what matters.
I am very disappointed that I have not seen anything fom the Trump administration regarding the disastrous mess that is occurring in Brazil as the Brazilian supreme court chief judge essentially takes over the country and silences critics.
“I have criticised the left repeatedly for micro parsing what Trump says. and ignoring what he does.”
Trump keeps falling asleep in meetings. Sleepy John Trump. He also goes golfing, a great deal. The fresh air, the exhausting exercise of waddling from the golf cart to where his caddy has dropped the ball onto the green. That sort of thing.
She doesn’t like it.
https://unwatch.org/francesca-albanese-u-s-sanctions-are-horrible-it-changes-my-life
Maybe a couple of EU bureaucrats can experience the same.
Young posted: I would like to see Rubio as President one day.
For me Rubio is going to have to explain why he wasn’t the Rubio who was a leading member of the Republicans including McCain who tried to help Schumer and Durban legalize millions of Illegal Aliens with their “Gang Of Eight”.
The treacherous Republicans who tried to help Obama accomplish his goal of making Illegal Alien criminals into future Democrat voters to create a federal government Democrat hegemony. My memory is a bit longer than just the last election where the subject of Rubio is concerned.
I don’t mind Rubio being a political whore with ambitions to be president. I approve of him helping Trump fulfill the agenda he was elected to accomplish.
But while I might some day be okay with having a political whore as president, I don’t want to suddenly see legalizing criminal Illegal Aliens coming out of the White House, once again working with Democrats like Schumer and Durban to do that.
So, your argument that Germany is “fascist” is that one state has sought to ban candidates from the far-right party that is often described as “fascist”…
Your logic is impeccable! Brilliant, Holmes, brilliant!!!
Is it not past your bedtime in the St Petersburg troll bunker, you nasty little Putin fellow-traveller?
It is not only Fascist to ban candidates you call fascist, it is fascist to ban candidates that are actual fascists.
Hilter Famously turned on his own – look up The Night of the Long Knives
The Brownshirts paved the way for Hitler to take over by disrupting the existing government. Hitler saw that they could do the same to him. They weren’t “his own”, they wanted things that Hitler did not and vice versa.
So, your argument that Germany is “fascist” is that one state has sought to ban candidates from the far-right party that is often described as “fascist”…
One of the Obama (or Biden) Democrat police state fascists is hoping that projection and their Antifa street terrorists’ tactic of claiming it is the Republicans that are fascist will win them the day.
Back into your kennel in the fetid Democrat Commie Borg you go, wannabe Lavarentiy Beria…
Young: – “More Fascism in ??Germany?? [they do seem to like it there] as the government bans candidates from an opposition party from the ballot.”
Oh, you mean like Third-party voters in Pennsylvania, Chester County, names were omitted from the poll books on Election Day – and the elected poll officials who participated in this aberration were almost all progressive party officials.
Of the county’s 385,856 registered voters, 75,076 of them are registered to a third-party, including Independents, Libertarians, non-affiliated and non-partisan.
For those who had to “provision ballot”, process took almost an hour – more than most anticipated, so they just walked out. And those who did were largely subjected to process that defied the rules they were handed – not to mention the envelope process required doxing themselves with a phone number.
Welcome to America – and this “MSNBC”-like left wing slant doesn’t eve begin to say how difficult that “provisional” process was and that probably most just gave up and walked out.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/third-party-voters-chester-county-pennsylvania-election-day/4296650/
Young: – “More Fascism in ??Germany?? [they do seem to like it there] as the government bans candidates from an opposition party from the ballot.”
Oh, you mean like “Third-party” voters in Pennsylvania, Chester County, names were omitted from the poll books on Election Day – and the elected poll officials who participated in this aberration were almost all progressive party officials.
Of the county’s 385,856 registered voters, 75,076 of them are registered to a third-party, including Independents, Libertarians, non-affiliated and non-partisan.
For those who had to “provision ballot”, process took almost an hour – more than most anticipated, so they just walked out. And those who did were largely subjected to process that defied the rules they were handed – not to mention the envelope process required doxing themselves completely – including a phone number for the “provisional ballot” to be accepted (if it ever was)
Welcome to America – and this attached article with a classic progressive slant doesn’t even begin to say how difficult that “provisional” process was and that probably most just gave up and walked out.
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/third-party-voters-chester-county-pennsylvania-election-day/4296650/
Time to withdraw from NATO. Not our allies right now. Let them deal with the Russian them coward selves.
Just reduce US funding of NATO/
Time to withdraw from NATO. Not our allies right now. Let them deal with the Russian them coward selves.
Nah… them cowards showed up to fight beside us in our war in Afghanistan and Iraq instead of saying “Not our war, and that enemy doesn’t threaten us nearly as much as it threatens you”. And most importantly, I want to make sure any future wars are fought over there on the streets of European cities, among civilian homes and families – not over here in America afterwards.
Besides, they’re invaluable as our customers!
Europe’s true goals could be reached more simply and much cheaper by censoring the names on ballots rather than the speech online. Such a change would also spare the public of the hypocrisy of “free elections” and condition them for life under someone like Putin.
General George S. Patton should have been unleashed in 1945 to spread and implement the Constitution and Bill of Rights throughout Europe and beyond.
The Truman-led communist Roosevelt administration put a “sudden end” to that effort.
Hmmm, George Patton, by 1945 increasingly erratic, even deranged, and who kept Nazis in local government in his patch of Germany, because he thought they were “decent people”; the man was a nutter, whose death was arguably a blessing in disguise for the allied nations. Made McArthur seem almost sane.
As we witness the ascension of communism in Europe, thank you, comrade.
Communism? Where? Apart from a few rump parties of no political significance in countries such as France, there is no communism.
Anyway, there was precisely one country in Europe in 1945 here the US could have tried to impose the Constitution and Bill of Rights – Germany. And even there, it would have required the consent and support of Britain, France and the Soviet Union, none of which would have been forthcoming.
Every other country in western Europe, save only Franco’s Spain, Switzerland, and Sweden, was an Ally. Even Italy after 1943. The US had precisely zero standing to interfere in their domestic politics, and Washington wanted to focus on finishing the war in the Pacific. Patton in particular was most upset to be left in Europe, deluding himself that he could be transferred to the Pacific theatre.
The entire communist American welfare state—the same exists throughout Europe—is unconstitutional, including, but not limited to, admissions affirmative action, grade-inflation affirmative action, employment affirmative action, quotas, welfare, food stamps, minimum wage, rent control, social services, forced busing, public housing, utility subsidies, CRT, DEI, WIC, SNAP, TANF, HAMP, HARP, TARP, PBS, NPR, Health and Human Services, Housing and Urban Development, Environmental Protection Agency, Agriculture, Education, Labor, Energy, Obamacare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Social Security Supplemental Income, Medicare, Medicaid, “Fair Housing” laws, “Non-Discrimination” laws, etc.
“Communism? Where? Apart from a few rump parties of no political significance in countries such as France, there is no communism.”
There also was no communism in the USSR or CCP or Cuba or …
There has never been a successful communist government anywhere.
What there has been is Socialism – various permutations of it – from Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Castro, through Peron, and so called socialist democracies of Europe.
All have failed, and they have failed to the extent that they are socialist – the more socialist they were the worse they failed.
Communism is just the most extreme form of Socialism.
The EU has a GDP of just under 20T, the US with 50% less people has a GDP of just over 30T.
There is not a country with a population over 10M with a GDP per capita higher than the US.
Countries throughout the world with higher GDP/capita than the US are places like Monaco, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Bermuda, Iceland Cayman Islands
NOT German, France, the UK, Spain or any other major European or other world nations.
Every country with a GDP/capita higher than the US has a niche economy and a small population.
They are heavily dependent on the world valuing their Niche.
Lets be Clear Socialism has FAILED – miserably.
It has failed everywhere it has been tried.
It has also failed pretty much for the reasons that classical liberal economicsts said they would fail nearly a century ago.
“Anyway, there was precisely one country in Europe in 1945 here the US could have tried to impose the Constitution and Bill of Rights – Germany. And even there, it would have required the consent and support of Britain, France and the Soviet Union, none of which would have been forthcoming.”
Actually there are no countries anywhere in the world. No nation, not a successful nation, not a conquering nation may impose by force on another nation a government not of the peoples chosing.
But myriads of countries in the world have chosen governments very similar to the US – they have constitutions – some identical, most very similar. Even North Vietnam used the US declaration of independence when after WWII it declared itself indepent from France – as the US had promised during WWII in return for assistance fighting the Japanese.
I would suggest reading “The Ugly American” it is quite old and it is technically fiction – though mirrored quite well by reality.
Americans are the worlds best ambassadors for our values and our way of life.
Our government and foreign service however is NOT, and in fact is possibly the worst foreign service in the entire world.
Our foreign service often tries to emulate the great european powers – Britian particularly – despite the fact that the US is NOT Britain.
While our government has done some stupid things in foreign countries, the US is not and never has been a colonial power.
Our influence on the world has been through our money, our military, our values and our example – the latter two being by far the most important and the former being by far what our Government has fixed on – despite the Warning of George Washington.
Rubio and Trump’s response to Europe should be the same as The US under Jefferson gave to Moroco early in the Jefferson presidency
“Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute,”
The US does NOT need Europe. Europe needs the US. Trump should tell the Europeans to back down from punishing US businesses for conducting their businesses – which operate primarily out of the US which is the largest market in the entire world following US law, US constitution and US principles.
That if the Europeans wish to punish the speech of their own citizens – they are fre to do so – THEMSELVES – they are NOT free to strong arm US companies to do their dirty work for them.
Just as we told the assorted Sultanates of North Africa to go F#$K themselves when they demanded tribute from US merchants to safely trade in the mediterainian.
There is plenty of precident for the US to do so.
Rubio is saying the right words.
We will see whether the Trump administration follows them up with Action.
“The US had precisely zero standing to interfere in their domestic politics”
Correct – The Europeans are free to punish the speech of their own citizens as they please.
They are not Free to Force US businesses to do their dirty work for them.
Particularly when the real goal is to backdoor censorship of Americans.
Most of the American GDP comes from California and New York. An exception is Texas, which gains much of it’s GDP by the coincidence of large oil deposits and its racist slave-holding for which they fought two civil wars to maintain.
The EU includes countries still recovering from the ravages of WWII and post Soviet occupation.
ATS – you have given us a history lesson – portions of which you have wrong.
Which is entirely irrelevant to Whether Foreign nations can FORCE US businesses to do the dirty work of censoring their own citizens.
You make a pretense of knowing History – yet you are aparently ignorant of the FACT that the US funded (and funds) Voice of America, for the purpose of assuring that nations of the world are not able to completely supress free speech.
Whether you like it or not – Free speech is a core value of the US – and sufficiently important that it is a core value in our dealings with the rest of the world.
Trump can probably use VOA funding to pay the fines EU nations levy on US social Media companies to prevent those nations from suppressing dissident voices in their own country.
That is the Mission of VOA.
No Patton was not eratic or insane. or deranged. Many nazi’s remained in government in Germany after WWII – it is necescary to run the country. Just as the US kept Hirohito as well as a significant portion of the rest of Japanese govenrment.
Both Patton and MacArthur were sane and they were both great military leaders – Patton however was a lousy politician. Further he was a great battle field commander – he was NOT an Eisenhower, MacArthur or Marshall. Eisenhower was never a consequential battlefield commander. But he was exactly what we needed to command the european theater.
MacArthur mixed both the strengths and weaknesses of Patton and Eisenhower.
The US has also since WWII had a major problem with its use of the military.
As Clauswitz said “War is politics by other means”.
But as MacArthur stated in his farewell address “In war there is no substitute for victory.”
We have had innumerable instances since WWII where the US engaged in military conflict with political goals that were not victory.
Those have all ended up either in clear failure – Vietnam, Afghanistan, or high costs in blood and treasure without accomplishing anything of sufficient value in return.
Patton appeared prepared to continue WWII fighting against Russia. That was a losing situation at the time.
However none other than Churchill was Highly critical of some of the appeasement of the Russians.
Britian went to war with Germany because Germany invaded Poland. He was incredibly upset that the US was prepared to sacrifice the free poles and give Poland to the USSR. He was also upset that the US allowed the USSR to outplay the west in taking over Eastern Europe at the tail end of the war. It was not possible for the US and UK to save all of eastern Europe – but we could have saved some of it.
MacArthur failed to consider the entrance of China into the Korean war. But Truman missed an oportunity. US intelligence at the time in China was garbage, and Truman was terrified of the possibility of fighting against millions of Chinese.
But the FACT is that Mao’s china was in very deep trouble at the time. China was starving at the time – though not as badly as a few years later. There military was incredibly weak and the casualties that were incurred pushing MacArthure out of North Korea were not sustainable.
China sent 12 elite divisions to take on the 12st Marine division at the Chosen River and while they succeeded in Driving the Marines out the casualties to China’s most elite forces were enormous. There was significant political turmoil in China and it is likely if MacArthur has been allowed to continue a conventional war in North Korea that not only would North Korea have been freed, but the CCP may have fallen.
The nationalists had only recently been driven out of Mainland china – at significant cost.
China was incredibly weak and fragile at the time – but US intelligence on China was poor.
Patton was an incredible General – but there is absolutely no way on earth that the US military was capable of fighting the USSR in europe in 1945.
America fought very effectively in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.
Alas, America was nearly completely communist—the Constitution totally disregarded and nullified—after Roosevelt (i.e. Alger Hiss), and there was no way America’s “ally,” the communist USSR, was going to be neutralized.
The US had nukes. Moscow and Saint Petersburg could have been vaporized. With the central government obliterated the US would have maintained a lead to the hydrogen bomb and the entirety of western Russia laid waste.
General George S. Patton should have been unleashed in 1945 to spread and implement the Constitution and Bill of Rights throughout Europe and beyond.
Yep, ol’ Blood ‘n Guts could have made us a far more effective occupier of Europe than Hitler or Stalin ever hoped to with their inferior versions of military occupation.
Emotional populist foreign affairs theory at it’s very best!
Dissecting headline MSN {Trump suffers another blow from the Supreme Court} [suffers: pain, hardship], [blow: hard hit] would that statement qualify for removal under the EU rules?
“President Donald Trump has been met with legal resistance as the Supreme Court has paused his effort to remove Copyright Office Director Shira Perlmutter. His actions prompted allegations of executive overreach as critics expressed concern over the Copyright Office’s independence. The Court has deferred a ruling while it considers related cases that could clarify the limits of presidential removal power.”
False statement there was no outcome from a duel, the duel was just deferred due to its junior status awaiting courts clarification of presidential powers.
The judicial branch has the judicial power—the power to judge.
The judicial branch has absolutely NO executive power, which is vested in a President of the United States.
No usurpation and exercise of executive power by the patently and de facto unequal judicial branch is constitutional.
Congress (i.e. the people) has the power to impeach and convict if the president’s actions are deemed egregious.
Chief Justice Roger B. Taney presented this judicial branch constraint in 1861.
____________________________________________________________________________________
Merriam-Webster
judge
verb
1: to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Article 3, Section 1
The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
“The clause in the Constitution which authorizes the suspension of the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus is in the ninth section of the first article. This article is devoted to the Legislative Department of the United States, and has not the slightest reference to the Executive Department.”
“I can see no ground whatever for supposing that the President in any emergency or in any state of things can authorize the suspension of the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, or arrest a citizen except in aid of the judicial power.”
“I have exercised all the power which the Constitution and laws confer on me, but that power has been resisted by a force too strong for me to overcome.”
– Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, May 28, 1861
My rights were suspended in 1966 when I was required to report to an induction center. I was to report, surrender or leave the country under the color of the law.
Oh, why did you not bribe a doctor to diagnose bone spurs like a certain Coward in Chief?
I let go of that chip long ago, those that chose to not serve missed out.
Good for you. Apologies if you thought I implied that you should have chickened out like DJT.
Should have faked Asthma like Biden did??? It’s OK for A DEM to do it???
Let’s look at Trump’s medical records – oh, wait, he’s had those buried.
Chickened out like Joe Biden with his FAKE asthma???
Ano
Have any proof on his bone spurts.
Lets see the military doctors report.
Apologies if you thought I implied that you should have chickened out like DJT.
Is that you implying you didn’t chicken out with your childhood asthma and more deferments than Trump, Bribery Joe Biden, The Coward of Benghazi and Abby Gate?
One thing you have over Trump – you’ve racked up a hell of a lot more kills than Trump. On American soldiers, ambassadors, and security personnel.
Oh, why did you not bribe a doctor to diagnose bone spurs like a certain Coward in Chief?
What are the chances you voted for a certain corrupt Oval Office House Plant who was not only the Coward And Thief In Chief, but aside from leaving Americans to die first in Baghdad, and then in Afghanistan, became Quartermaster In Chief to arm hajji terrorists?
You know who we’re talking about. The one with the most draft deferments ever, who bragged about playing college ball, and then bribed a doctor after his football career was over to diagnose him with childhood asthma.
Varsity football=childhood asthma! Who knew!
Where were you assigned? They sent me into Cambodia in the 25th Division in April, 1970—remember “Ohio,” “four dead in Ohio”!?
Judges are issuing opinions, decisions, and orders in the context of a case or controversy presented to them by parties. I see that as an appropriate exercise of judicial power and not as executive action or power.
What do you call it when a lower court orders an officer of the executive branch into court to receive orders from the judge?
You don’t suppose that constitutes the usurpation and exercise of executive power?
Courts may judge in the complete absence of the usurpation and exercise of executive power; judges may not usurp and exercise power they do not possess and power that is vested exclusively in a different branch, that being the executive.
Similarly, the legislative branch may legislate only in the complete absence of the usurpation and exercise of executive power.
That is the law; you don’t like it, but that is the law.
Read it.
The people, or Congress, hold the ultimate power to correct, direct, and penalize the executive branch through impeachment and conviction.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
AI Overview
U.S. Border Patrol Chief Greg Bovino was ordered by a Chicago federal judge, Sara Ellis, to report to court daily in late October 2025 due to concerns over aggressive tactics, including tear-gassing protestors, during immigration crackdowns; however, an appeals court quickly stayed this order, pausing the requirement for daily check-ins, though the judge imposed strict rules on agent conduct, use of force, and required Bovino to wear a body camera.
The Constitution presents no definition of “an appropriate exercise of judicial power.”
Judicial power is the power to judge, to ensure that actions comport with law, not the power to exercise executive power.
Read Chief Justice Taney above.
____________________________________
Merriam-Webster
judge
verb
1: to form an opinion about through careful weighing of evidence and testing of premises
Judicial power is the power to judge, to ensure that actions comport with law, not the power to exercise executive power. Read Chief Justice Taney above.
Oh yes, let’s read about that racist, vile political creature, Chief Justice Taney!
Dred Scott Decision
Worst Supreme Court Ruling in US History
https://www.worldhistory.org/Dred_Scott_Decision/
The Dred Scott Decision (Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. (19 How.) 393 (1857) was the infamous ruling of the United States Supreme Court that, according to the US Constitution, Black people were not and could not be considered citizens of the United States of America and, further, that “no slave or descendant of a slave had any ‘rights which the white man was bound to respect'”.
Not only did Taney conclude that Dred Scott was still a slave but also that his lawsuit – and any other like it – was invalid because Blacks were not United States citizens and so had no claim to rights, privileges, and protections under the US Constitution.
Today, Chief Justice Taney’s decision is regarded as the worst ruling in the history of the United States Supreme Court.
That’s the kind of Chief Justice that our resident Confederate Kluxxer Democrat, Mad King George X, likes: now he just needs a similar judge to say black Americans are still his Darkies, to buy and sell as he sees fit.
I can just imagine our resident Kluxxer creature Mad King George X ever trying to push his Taney-Dred Scot Kluxxer version of history on a black American today.
Instead of calling him Clueless George, we’d be calling him Toothless George.
“I can see no ground whatever for supposing that the President in any emergency or in any state of things can authorize the suspension of the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, or arrest a citizen except in aid of the judicial power. “I have exercised all the power which the Constitution and laws confer on me, but that power has been resisted by a force too strong for me to overcome.”
(and I gave you the Dred Scott decision so you can Constitutionally keep your Darky slaves as another breed of farm animals)
– Chief Justice Roger B. Taney, May 28, 1861
ALL THE LAWS BUT ONE: CIVIL LIBERTIES IN WARTIME
https://www.amazon.com/All-Laws-but-One-Liberties/dp/0679446613
Chief Justice William Rehnquist spent 300 pages explaining and dealing with Kluxxer Confederate Justice Roger B. Taney and his fellow Confederate (and Commie) GeorgeX’s Marxist wet dreams and revisionist historical and Constitutional analysis of both Lincoln and the Confederate Democrat Civil War.
Given that George has proved his reading comprehension has never gotten beyond what he developed in kindergarten, Justice Rehnquist’s work and explanations may as well be laying on the surface of the moon as far as George is concerned.
Once again, the extreme-left utterly ignores hard evidence and excuses the totalitarian/authoritarian demands of their favorite dictators, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry at the EU, “who called for government crackdowns on free speech.” Extreme-Leftist hypocrisy is epic, and knows no bounds.
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels published The Communist Manifesto in London in 1848.
So? A little thing called “free speech”. The British Empire was sufficiently secure and confident not to be worried by such individuals.
Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels originated in Berlin, Paris, and Brussels.
None of which were exactly safe residential options for radicals in 1848… for very good reasons. London was the one major capital not plagued by revolutionary unrest, so any sensible radical headed there.
And yet “safe residential options for radicals” resolve and emerge in the Year of Our Lord, 2025.
Oh, you Yanks were harbouring terrorists for decades, especially in Boston during the 70s and 80s.
You’re all at sea, mate, those weren’t terrorists being harbored in America, they were national heroes, patriots, and nationalists.
Oh, you Yanks were harbouring terrorists for decades, especially in Boston during the 70s and 80s.
You UK commies referring to your terrorists in the IRA that were bombing your department stores, parades, Mountbatten’s boat, etc? The ones you wankers exported over here?
Sure, we can compare how many terrorist attacks we had in Boston in the 70’s and 80’s and compare them to how many that IRA had back home there in the home isles?
Are the EU parties anything other than tyrannical organizations, it’s like they’ve taken their play book from fictional stories of Kafka or Orwell and adapted them into new laws so draconian you could become a prisoner of the state for speaking. Just a few names of the above mentioned organizations ‘European People’s Party, The Progressive Alliance of Socialist, Renew Europe, Identity and Democracy and The Left in the European Parliament, they are supposedly members to encourage collaboration, prevent conflict and many other ideas.
The electing public, who acquiesce to their demands, have forgotten their history, and what happens when an armed government imposes rules of silence,” by damned you will remain silent say’s the man with the gun.”
The EU was imagined as Nirvana but has now grown legs of dystopia where the laws of nature are at risk to corrupted governance by illiterate governors.
Peroration Harbor
December 7, 2025
I suspect this is just the EU tyrant/bureaucrats sticking a big toe in to test the waters.
If they get away with it they will dive in and we will have Stasi censorship in America as Hillary and Kerry and so many Democrats want.
I am hoping that Jaws is waiting to snack on that toe.
This does not seem like something Trump and his administration will let pass and they are a lot smarter, faster and more decisive than the Euroweenies in their endless committee meetings.
Meanwhile, Elon Musk, who is also very smart, decisive and fast has already said:
“The EU should be abolished and sovereignty returned to individual countries, so that governments can better represent their people.”.
Good idea. Medvedev has approved Musk’s idea. https://tass.com/politics/2054797
Without the EU and Democrats I doubt there would be a war in Ukraine and it is the same people who don’t seem to want the war to end.
Abolish the EU. It is Fascist and it is destroying Europe.
When the war criminal Medvedev agrees with you, it is time to give your head a serious wobble. Linking to TASS? Reagan will be turning in his grave.
I like Deputy Secretary of State, Christopher Landau’s take on the Europeans:
https://x.com/DeputySecState/status/1997273185507525058
The UK is eliminating jury trials, sends squads of uniformed goons to arrest citizens for thought crimes, embraces censorship, cancels elections, and demonizes whole swaths of its own people who disagree. Conspires to censor American companies. It has become a fascist state. What element is lacking?
https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2025/12/05/marlow-uk-officials-orchestrating-a-massive-anti-speech-campaign-to-silence-breitbart
Once again America has to stand up against European totalitarianism.
The UK is not abolishing jury trials. One immensely stupid minister has suggested it, and is already attempting a reverse ferret after he got torn apart from all sides.
How about America standing up to Donald’s totalitarianism? He seems to think modelling himself on Benito is a clever move.
BBC: “Jury trials scrapped for crimes with sentences of less than three years”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn5lxg2l0lqo
Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/uk-justice-minister-plans-judge-only-courts-lower-level-cases-2025-12-02
Getting close and these are ideas of a Fascist government.
Read this carefully. It is a suggestion by a minister. A very stupid suggestion by a very stupid minister. Who is now doing a reverse ferret, as everyone says it is stupid. It would get torn apart in the Lords for a start.
God, you are the worst trollbot that even Vlad has, he deserves a refund on you.
By the way, the UK’s government is Labour. Socialist. Socialists cannot be fascist. I do not like either, but stop throwing around words like “fascist” that you do not understand.
No, YOU should read it carefully. The original proposal was introduced as part of a new plan by Sir Brian Leveson, retired judge. Minister Lammy took it further, then backed off the extra icing. BUT THE ORIGINAL SUGGESTION for jury-less trials BY LEVESON REMAINS. Clown.
Do you know who Leveson is? Did you follow the Leveson Inquiry?
It remains a stupid suggestion, no matter who thought of it first. Lammy, by embracing it, has brought down a welter of criticism on his head, not least because the supposed justification is to speed up justice, and jury trials in no way slow down justice. The long delays in the current judicial system are caused by a lack of government funding for lawyers, not by the need to find twelve good men and true. One problem is that Lammy and Leveson share the conceit of some in the legal profession that they are much more clever than the plebs who sit on juries, so they can be trusted to pass judgement on their own. Lammy cannot be trusted even to make a sandwich.
Clown indeed!
stop trying your weasel runs around what you said. You were wrong.
Your exact words were
“One immensely stupid minister [Lammy] has suggested it, and is already attempting a reverse ferret after he got torn apart from all sides.”
THEN you said, “Read this carefully. It is a suggestion by a minister [Lammy] A very stupid suggestion by a very stupid minister.”
YOu tried the same tactic yesterday and multiple commenters fired back and called you out.
Your anonymous shield is easily pierced by your repeated errors and attempt to cover up.
You are correct, you are a clown indeed.
p.s. yes I know who Leveson is. Another failed tactic from you.
Upon request, Leveson was asked to prepare proposals for an overhaul. His proposals included some jury-free exceptions. Lammy merely attempted to expand on that, then backed off.
Why don’t YOU back off, Sir CLown.
replying to 2:00 below,
your see-through tactics are a lot like georgie when he is backed into a corner of his own making. Are you his british cousin? Or his he your American copycatter?
Leveson is irrelevant, now that Lammy has flown his kite; it is now a political issue. The Lords is packed with lawyers and judges every bit as distinguished as Leveson, and they will shred this idea. It cannot be forced through the Lords, as it was not in the election manifesto.
Stick to practising your pratfalls and custard pie ballistics, my dear chap.
Fascism is essentially socialist at its core. Read Count Ciano’s diary.
Modern socialists try to distance themselves from other socialist parties, like the Fascists and the Nazis.
The Nazis, by the way, were named the National Socialist German Workers Party, and the Fascists took their name from the Italian unions nickname. Mussolini of course was a major actor in Italian socialist and union activity.
But words count less in reality than actions and the actions of the UK and the EU are clearly the types of acts we have traditionally labeled Fascist.
And with their increasing antisemitism I think they are edging into Nazi variations.
Adopt a moniker to continue. It’s too easy to take stupid positions while hiding behind a mask.
My school friend’s mother was Ciano’s goddaughter, so I am well aware of him.
Stalin insisted on the Nazis being referred to as Fascists by his propaganda monkeys, to paint them as right wing rather than National Socialists. Were you not taught that at the St Petersburg propaganda monkey school?
Starmer’s wife is Jewish, so no anti-semitism in the UK government.
Who cares about Starmer’s wife? A Jewish lawyer was detained by police in the UK for wearing a Star of David that might antagonize Muslim protesters.
https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-870872
That’s antisemitic.
I asked if you had read Ciano’s diary, not if the great aunt of your friend’s sister knew the godmother of his grandchild, or whatever bullcrap you claim as a credential.
Apparently you haven’t. I have.
Maybe you spent too much time in school and have grown to confuse models and theories and words with reality.
Reality is what actually happens and exists.
The reality is that the UK and EU are acting in ways that in years past we would have called Fascist without hesitation.
They have become dangerous to enlightened civilization and are ushering in a new Darkness At Noon society.
And what about ICE and Border Patrol? Running around in masks, assaulting people, lying in court (cf Borvino being caught out in his lies), acting just like the SA. They need to be disestablished, Noem impeached, Holman and Borvino jailed. They might like to consider what happened to Rohm once he seized to be useful to his authoritarian dictator 🙂
They are law enforcement officers enforcing the law. You don’t like it because you lose a “fake” voter upon every legal deportation of every illegal alien foreign invader. That’s gotta be tough for you communists! It threatens your “free stuff” and “free status” obtained from other people. Whatever will happen to all you parasites and leeches when America is once again placed squarely back on the original Constitution and Bill of Rights, 1789?
I am told by left wing nutss like yourself that some ICE officers are misbehaving.
While I have seen no actual evidence of that – and Your WORDS and those of the MSM are not credible, I would be surprised if in the course of the forced deportation of just short of 1M illegal immigrants and the voluntary deportation of another 1.2M that some mistakes have been made.
Long before Trump was elected it was estimated that about 2.5% of the US prison population is actually innocent.
There are over 1000 people on the Innocence projects exhonerated list.
Our system of law enforcement is unsurprisingly not perfect.
It is not ever going to be.
We should not give those in law enforcement our blind faith – they make occasional honest mistakes.
They make occasiona incompetent mistakes and on rare occasions they are even corrupt.
Absolutely we should do our best to reduce mistakes and root out corruption.
I would personally deal harshly with those in the justice system that are corrupt.
Again while I do not trust you or your claims – it would be shocking to find no mistakes have been made by ICE.
At the same time – every day I see more video of people Rioting against ICE.
Interfering with officers doing their job,
Throwing rocks at them
Shooting fireworks at them.
And rarely violently assaulting even trying to kill them.
The ICE agents are doing their job – they are enforcing US immigration law.
There is no significant deviation from that law.
If you want to protest the actions ICE is taking – go to Washington and demand that Congress change the law.
Take the issue up with those with the power to do something about it.
Like those protesting at J6 did.
Directly confronting and interfering with law enforcement that is actually enforcing the law as passed by congress is dangerous and likely to end badly – and if it does YOU are to blame – not ICE.
NOR is Trump to blame. Trump may be enforcing immigration law with relish and glee.
But the laws he is enforcing were pass long before he was president.
No ICE does not need to be disestablished.
If you do not like the enforcement of US immigration law – take that up with Law Makers – not law enforcement.
If ICE officers ACTUALLY disobey the law – then report them and seek to prosecute them.
But so long as they are enforcing our immigration laws – your dislike for those laws does not entitle you to interfere with or disrespect those enforcing them. If you do not like our laws – take that up with those who MAKE the law.
And what about ICE and Border Patrol? Running around in masks, assaulting people
They are doing their job: arresting and deporting criminal Illegal Aliens. When criminal Illegal Aliens or those aiding and abetting them lay hands on law enforcement, what happens next isn’t “assault”. Assault would be knocking them down and putting the boots to them until they weren’t moving. Your fellow Democrat commies and criminal Illegal Aliens can’t even acknowledge that you should be happy that the policy isn’t to immediately arrest and charge every one of them who lays a hand on a LEO who is performing the duty he is sworn to fulfill.
Don’t want them wearing masks? Tell your fellow cowards over here who are doxxing them and threatening their families to quite doing that. I’d be happy to see a “no masks” policy along with new laws making the doxxing of LEO’s a five year strict liability felony.
You would prefer that our police do as yours: ignore 85+ Muslim child rapist gangs. But making up for it by arresting and jailing Brits who dared to believe they had the right to criticize police allowing those rape gangs to victimize thousands of young children.
You commie Brits need to keep your ideas of what justice looks like right where it is right now – not trying to sell it over in America.
For heaven’s sake, yes, I did read his diaries, forty years ago, as part of A level history. And his goddaughter was most enlightening on the man, having heard much from her parents (a British diplomat and an Italian contessa) who were intimately acquainted with him.
Again, the treatment of the Jewish gentleman by the Met was roundly condemned by all, including by Starmer, as massive police overreach. He was not, of course, charged with anything, and the government insisted that the Met crack down on pro-Palestinian protestors.
One of the problems with the UK today is that these “massive overreaches” occur all the time.
When you subject people to the POWER oif Government – law enforcement, and then latter go “whoopsi, made a mistake” – particularly when you are caught and the people take offence, that iis NOT the evidence of an honest government seeking to avoid behaving as totalitarians.
I am not British and your countries slide into socialist authoritarianism is not my problem – EXCEPT when it starts to impact MY country. But that does not preclude LOTS of us – british or otherwise roundly condemning you.
That the country that gave us the genius of John Stuart Mill could have fallen so far is disturbing.
“Socialists cannot be fascist.” NOT SO!!! The next paragraph shows an objective definition of the term “fascist,” which your party represents well, especially evidenced by Hillary Clinton and John Kerry’s “call for government crackdowns on free speech.”
FASCISM: a political theory advocating for an authoritarian hierarchical government (e.g., nanny state). So, YES, socialists and democrats CAN be fascists, exactly like Clinton and Kerry.
Socialism is faux.
____________________
“The goal of Socialism is Communism.”
– Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
We KNOW that, but they don’t, and therein lies the bane of free political though when it is premised upon ignorance!
“Socialists cannot be fascist,” but they are. The problem is with your understanding of the word Socialist and how you apply it to countries around the world. Socialism was originally used interchangeably by Marx, then we
Fascism
|
|—>miles and miles>—>Republicanism
|
Socialism
Socialism is the opposite of fascism in the most limited way, to such a point that the difference is minuscule when comparing either of them to Republicanism. Socialism (communism) is an economic system. Fascism is mostly a political system. For many, Socialism is considered a stepping stone to communism.
Fascinatingly incoherent and self-contradictory comment here by S. Meyer.
Apparently socialism is the opposite of fascism in only a limited way, with only a miniscule difference.
And yet socialism is an economic system and fascism is a political system. So therefore there is only a miniscule difference between a political system and an economic system. Seems to me that by definition a political system is not necessarily an economic system.
If there is only a miniscule difference between fascism and socialism, then they are to all intents and purposes the same thing, and yet one is apparently an economic system and the other is a political system according to you.
Presumably a country can have a socialist economy, without being fascist and vice versa, and yet there is only a miniscule difference.
So what exactly is your point? There is no point. Your incoherent ramblings mean NOTHING.
Apparently you also believe, “For many, Socialism is considered a stepping stone to communism”.
OK fine, why are those “many” necessarily correct. Who exactly are these “many” people? Presumably there are many who believe that socialism is NOT a stepping stone to communism. Just because “many” believe something does not make it true. Before Galileo, “many” people believed the Sun revolves around the Earth. Obviously “many” people were wrong. Just because you believe that socialism is a stepping stone to communism, does not make it true, or make the case that “many” people believe it is true.
Your comments are just a meaningless jumble of nonsensical thoughts with no basis in reality.
“Fascinatingly incoherent and self-contradictory comment here by S. Meyer.”
You always say that when you are most in the dark.
The reason there is so much confusion about socialism, communism, and fascism is dolts like you keep changing definitions while making ignorant claims.
“For many, Socialism is considered a stepping stone to communism…”
One need not think hard to know why. Despite many so-called communist nations, none of them reached the endpoint. Do you know what the endpoint is? Probably not, but until the endpoint is reached, Communism is hardly discernible from fascism. Both ideologies are political and economic to a lesser extent.
To you, anything involving political philosophy is “a meaningless jumble of nonsensical thoughts.” Your comment demonstrates the depth of your ignorance. There is no way for you to ever catch up.
More incoherent rambling from the mental midget.
You are absolutely correct that the confusion about socialism, communism and fascism is because dolts like you keep changing “definitions” while making ignorant claims. Look no further than the attempted “definitions” by the dolt known as Meyer. I made no attempt to “define” any of these terms. I know what they mean but you clearly do not. You made an absurd attempt to “define” these terms and I simply pointed out how ridiculous and absurd you are.
As to your further attempts to make a point about socialism as a stepping stone to communism, you once again tie yourself into a self-contradictory Gordian knot. You make the absurd comment that of “the many so-called communist nations, none of them reached the endpoint”.
OK, fine. You apparently believe that there are no communist countries that have reached this mysterious “endpoint” that you do not actually “define”, and therefore, by your “definition”, there are no communist nations. You refer to them as “so-called” communist nations, so by your “definition” they are not communist. Then what exactly are they. If there are only “so-called” communist countries then in fact we do not know what a communist country looks like, because by your “definition” they do not exist and we have never seen one. Apparently communist countries only exist in your fertile and completely warped mind.
By your own “definition”, socialism cannot be a stepping stone to communism, because by your “definition”, there are no communist countries, only “so-called” communist countries. Until such time as there are communist countries you cannot conclude that socialism is a stepping stone to such a state of affairs.
I absolutely agree that dolts like you keep changing “definitions” to satisfy their fanciful and absurd beliefs.
I have made no attempt to define anything.
Perhaps you should consider re-defining your “definitions” once again. Maybe one day you may accidentally stumble upon a “definition that is rational.
You fail to properly read what others say while trying to protect an image of a knowledgeable person, something you obviously never were. But I thank you for another birdbrain response that proves my point.
” this mysterious “endpoint” that you do not actually “define”
Thanks again for proving me correct. You don’t know or understand what the endpoint is.
Hmmmm. Let me see here.
By your “definition” this mysterious endpoint has never been reached. As you say, of the “many so-called communist nations, NONE of them reached the endpoint”.
By your definition there are no communist nations because NONE of them have reached this mysterious “endpoint”. Note the use of the word “NONE”.
If this “endpoint” has never been reached it is not possible to know what it looks like. We can only speculate as to what it looks like. Normal, sane rational people will take the view that until the “endpoint” is reached we have no idea what it looks like and any predictions are nothing more than idle speculation. However, you claim to know what this endpoint looks like, but by your “definition” this endpoint has never been seen by anyone, anywhere. Apparently you have some magical, supernatural insight into the nature of this “endpoint” that has never been reached, and therefore has never existed in the real world. Apparently you are an all-knowing, omniscient being that can see things that others do not. Do you also have an imaginary friend that no one else can see? Does this friend keep you company in your mother’s basement?
Yogi Berra famously said, “It’s tough to make predictions, especially about the future”.
He is right and you are wrong.
You are not only wrong, you are delusional. I choose not to participate in your delusions.
I strongly you suggest you take my previous advice and redefine your “definitions” once again.
“By your “definition” this mysterious endpoint has never been reached.”
It isn’t my definition. As I stated in the early part of this discussion, Marx made it clear what the endpoint was. The closest any entity came to the endpoint was the kibbutzim in Israel. Your problem is that you wish to call men women when they engage in female sports or enter a woman’s locker room. When conclusions are made, you want the ability to use your personal definitions and facts. That should be limited to a room with a sign on the door saying, ‘Only Dolts Allowed.’
Hmmmm, another interesting comment here by Meyer.
In his remarkably changing and fluid world of definitions, Meyer now asserts that the kibbutzim of Israel are the entities that came closest to the “endpoint” of socialism.
I think we can all agree that the kibbutzim were founded on socialist principles, but Meyer seems to think that as they evolved they came closest to the mysterious and unattainable “endpoint” of socialism.
Let’s consider how they have evolved. If I am not mistaken, most of the kibbutzim actually evolved into capitalist enterprises. Most of them have embraced industrialization by diversifying into manufacturing for profit. They have set up factories to produce high tech products, military equipment, medical equipment, robotics, plastic products, optical equipment and many, many other products. Many kibbutzim have then sold their successful businesses to private equity companies and even overseas competitors for substantial profits. Many of the kibbutzniks have become millionaires and a few have become billionaires.
What does all this mean ???
According to Meyer, the kibbutzim have come closest to the “endpoint” of socialism.
According to Meyer, that “endpoint” appears to capitalism, since that is where the kibbutzim have ended up.
I know that I have used “a lot of words” here, and that you have difficulty with reading and comprehending “a lot of words”, but I hope that you at least get a faint glimmer of the point I am making. But somehow I doubt that. I expect you will simply resort to your pathetically childish insults involving alcohol, or the women’s locker room insult you used above.
You are correct. The communist nature of the kibbutzim has disappeared. That is because communism (socialism)doesn’t work past a generation or two, which is true of many noble things. The founder’s zeal is lost in successive generations. The founding kibbutzim were the closest to small-scale communism seen. Communism’s failure to survive in the kibutzim is evidence for the failure of that system and many socialist ideas. Of course, if you have better examples, you can provide them.
ATS – While SM has made some very minor errors in his remarks.
Socialism is not merely an economic system, it is an economic system in which Government owns or controls everything.
That is not merely economic – that is also political. You can not have socialism without Government taking control of the economy (and much else).
Fascism is a FORM of socialism – you can be socialist without being fascist – though it is not an accident that all socialism tends towards authoritarianism, loss of freedom, and ultimately violence – often against ones own people.
While all socialism has not been brought about by violence – the development of the socialist ideology expected socialism to be brought into being through violent revolution.
Further the inherent failure of socialism drives those in power in socialist governments to the use of force to sustain the socialism as it fails. Violence while not universal is so common place with socialism that more people have been murdered by socialism than by any other case – and that is even if you insist on pretending that fascists are not socialists.
Extreme nationalism is also commonly found with Fascism – but it is NOT a requirement for Fascism, Though generally we call socialists who are also nationalists – fascist – Naional Socialism – NAZI.
SM is wrong in arguing that Fascism and Socialism are distinct but complimentary – commonly found together.
Fascism is a formal subset of socialism – All fascists are socialists. But all socialists are not fascist.
“SM is wrong in arguing that Fascism and Socialism are distinct but complimentary”
John, I didn’t argue that the two were complimentary. They can be considered opposites based on the economics involved. Unrealized communism (today’s socialism) has a government.
Your ATS is arguing, but it seems Sigmund Fraud entered the debate. He uses a lot of words but seldom says anything true or important.
My quibble is minor – Socialism can not exist without Government – it is therefore inherently Political.
Beyond that though NOT a strict requirement of socialism, once you start controlling the economy with Government – most everything else follows.
Those seeking to control the economy – naturally are driven to control everything.
Further The tails of nearly ever economic activity are something that is not economic.
I go out to dinner with my wife for good food and for a good experience.
I work for many reasons – one of which is to spend time with my kids and my dogs and to enjoy my life.
F#$K with the economy and you ALWAYS mess with things that are not the economy.
Next concentrating power attracts those who seek to use that power and they are rarely good people.
I will try to use fewer words so that even Meyer can understand this comment.
Meyer becomes confused and frustrated when confronted with “a lot of words”. It seems reading and comprehension are difficult for him, which is quite obvious from his absurd self-contradictory comments here. This would explain his low intelligence, and the low information content of his comments.
There, is that better ???
Is that few enough words that you are able to comprehend and understand ???
“I will try to use fewer words so that even Meyer can understand this comment.”
Fewer words doesn’t solve the problem. You are unread on this subject (many others as well) and have done nothing to get up to speed. You think your insults are enough. Go back and lock yourself in the room, ‘Dolts Only.’ People are looking at your comments and mine, easily recognizing the ignorance you bring to the table.
ATS is badly arguing semantics.
I have had versions of this discussion with you years ago.
Ultimately it does not matter what you “label” things – only that you and the person you are communicating with share a common understanding of what the label being used means.
We can eliminate the words communism and socialism and substitute any symbol – words are just symbols.
We can call the system where government Owns the means of production – pdq, and the system where it controls the means of production xyz.
The Nazi’s had the xyz system. The USSR and CCP had the pdq system.
Much of Europe post WWII – particularly the UK had permutations of the xyz system.
The xyz system comes in many permutations – what are typically called the nordic social democracies have an xyz system that is heavy on a government provided social safety net but actually quite light on control of the rest of the economy.
Whether the system is xyz or pdq – it FAILS – and it fails primarily to the extent that govenrment controls things.
The pdq system specifically fails because economies can not work without a pricing system, and contra left wing nuts prices are incredibly important – they are a means of communicating information and of orgainizing and allocating production – all of which must be done by government in a pdq system, and which government can not possibly manage to actually do.
The absence of a working pricing system is just One flaw in the pdq system – it is reflective of the more general flaw of both xyz and pdq – and that is that they are inherently inefficient.
Government is FORCE, Force is inefficient. The more govenrment micromanages things the more FORCE is required to assure that people do what Government demands. That FORCE is not free. The larger government grows the less people are involved in producing value.
This is also why xyz systems do not fail as badly or quickly in homogenous societies – such as the nordic social democracies. You do not need as much force – government, when people share the same race, the same religion, the same culture, the same values. Diversity and big government are incompatible.
This is one of the reasons that Sweden particularly – but the nordic social democracies more generally, and much of Europe even more generally are having Huge problems with immigration that is small in comparison to the US.
Sweden has gone from taking in twice as many immigrants a year(proportionately) as the US did under Biden to taking in almost none and having a NET outward immigration. They are paying immigrants approximately $34K to leave Sweden.
They are changing there laws to allow revoking citizenship for people who were already naturalized, as well as their children. Sweden has imposed immigration policies that Trump only dreams of.
I am using Sweden as an example – because in 2016 they had the most open immigration in the world.
Today they are NOT the most closed in Europe – most of the nordic social democracies have similar immigration policies as does significant parts of the rest of Europe.
xyz and pdq fail no matter what – but they fail faster and more dramatically the more diverse a society is.
Nazi Germany. Fascist Italy, Franco’s spain, Peron’s Argentina were all xyz systems.
the USSR and CCP were pdq systems.
The UK post war and pre thatcher was partway between xyz and pdq.
The nordic social democracies and much of western europe post war was partly free market, but heavily xyz with respect to “social safety nets” – though even there in many countries – government mandated these social safety nets – but they were mostly provided by the free market. That is still inefficient – but usually less so that when government provides.
“ATS is badly arguing semantics.”
I think it is worse than that. He is arguing with his ignorant self.
I agree names don’t count, but definitions do. Socialism is a tough word that has been butchered, but my use of the words communism and socialism is based on historical definitions from the originators Marx and Engels, along with how both Marx and Engels changed socialism’s precise meanings. ATS talks from the bottom end of his alimentary canal.
ATS – what is “communism” ?
According to Marx and … communism is this utopia that you must go through socialism to reach, that eventually ends in communal ownership and government without government.
That form of communism is a fantasy. It does not exist and it can not ever exist.
But the term communism is used to label the USSR and the CCP – these are very real, they are not fantasies. They self identify as both socialist and communist.
That meaning of communism is much like fascism – a form of socialism – a subset of socialism.
To a large extent in common use communism is the form of socialism where the means of production are OWNED by the state.
While systems of govenrment where the means of production are merely controlled by the state are socialist but not communist. Whether the means of production are owned by the state or merely controlled by the state is NOT a defining element for fascism. But in all fascist states – the means of production are controlled by the state – not owned by it.
There has never been a state that is both fascist and communist – though there is no reason there can’t be.
Further SM was not correct in stating that Socialism is an economic system and fascism is a political one.
Socialism is an economic system, it is also a political system, and the control that socialists governments exert is never limited to just the economy.
“Further SM was not correct in stating that Socialism is an economic system and fascism is a political one.”
Communism and socialism were initially used interchangeably by Marx. Gradually, socialism became what I call communism lite, and was utilized during the transformation to communism. In terms of politics and the economy, socialism was fascist in that the state had control over the means of production. The state could leave it in the hands of the owners to do what the state wanted, or the state could completely take ownership away.
There never existed a true communist nation based on Marx’s words, but today we call autocratic nations that control private property and production socialist (communist)nations.
Let’s see if we can follow Meyer’s logic here. Not an easy undertaking.
Meyer asserts that socialism was “used for the transformation to communism”. However, he also asserts that this transformation was never fully achieved. Instead socialism became “communism lite”.
OK, fine, I am with you so far.
Now consider Meyer’s further assertion that the kibbutzim of Israel are the entities that came closest to the “endpoint” of socialism. Presumably they approached what Meyer refers to as “communism lite”. But in reality, most of the kibbutzim evolved into capitalist enterprises that embraced industrialization by diversifying into manufacturing for profit. Many kibbutzim sold their profitable enterprises to outside private equity groups and competitors for substantial profits. In other words they embraced capitalism.
Now let’s apply Meyer’s logic.
Kibbutzim came closest to the “endpoint” of socialism, that being “communist lite”
Kibbutzim actually embraced capitalism.
Thus, using Meyer’s logic, we can conclude that capitalism is the real “endpoint” of socialism, which he asserts is “communism lite”.
Capitalism is actually “communism lite” !!!!!
Who knew ???
We learn something every day !!!
I apologize in advance for using “a lot of words”, but I am sure if you concentrate really hard and make an effort you might just be able to understand my point.
Feel free to resort to childish insults.
“Meyer’s further assertion that the kibbutzim of Israel are the entities that came closest to the “endpoint” of socialism. Presumably they approached what Meyer refers to as “communism lite”.”
You are getting closer. My phrase was socialism lite. Originally, communism and socialism were used interchangeably.
Yes, “Communism” in the kibbutzim failed, and most, if not all, became capitalist. You need to be careful about tense. I spoke of in the past, not the present. Your comment supported my arguments about capitalism vs socialism, thank you. However, it is not capitalism per se that is the endpoint of communism, but something unachievable, which leads to failure.
“Capitalism is actually “communism lite”
I guess you tried real hard to be accurate in the beginning, and then decided to twist words to make yourself sound like a winner and intelligent. Instead, you show yourself to be a loser and ignorant.
And yet socialism is an economic system and fascism is a political system.
Marx disagrees with you. And one has to wonder why you have to so desperately lie if the socialist fascism you push was so admirable and successful.
Lots of gaslighting… and no light shed anywhere.
That’s not what I said. I said communism is an economic system, and fascism is mostly political. I left out “socialism” because the word has changed meanings so many times that using it without context is useless.
Historically, socialism and communism were basically the same. Marx later made socialism the political phase before communism. The regimes people call “socialist” were just totalitarian states using political force to control the economy. None ever reached Marx’s idea of communism. Thus, the Lenin–Stalin era, though appearing similar to fascism in practice, is correctly classified as totalitarian socialism.
So if you’re going to quote me, at least quote what I actually said, not your rewrite of it.
Do you have an argument ?
Ad Hominem is not argument.
I could care less what you think about my mental state.
If others think that matters they can read my posts – they do not need you to idiotsplain them.
Are you so morally and intellectually bankrupt that all you are capable of arguing is absurd musings on the mental health of people you do not know, have not met, and clearly do not understand.
You either missed the point of what I wrote or deliberately ignored it.
Absolutely – I am not posting here for the Pulitzer prize in literature.
Further YOU are not worth the effort to polish my posts.
No one pays me to post here. If someone wishes to do so – then I will put in the effort to correct spelling, typos, grammar, and better organize what I write and shrink it down to a small number of concise words.
AS neither you nor anyone else is paying me – I do not give a schiff about your thoughts on anything but the arguments presented – and you have avoided those.
SM – sorry but I must quibble – While socialism is an economic system – it is an economic system in which the government owns or controls the economy – and pretty much everything else.
Socialism is both an economic system and a political system.
Fascism is a form of socialism. There are socialists that are not fascists – though socialism inherently drives those with power toward violence to hold power as they fail. This is why the more socialist a government is the more bloody it is.
The element that most commonly is present in Fascist systems – and less common in other forms of socialism is Nationalism.
Nationalism is not inherently bad – but taken to extremes can be. But the combination of extreme nationalism and socialism is what gives us Mussolini and Hitler.
There are NOT fascists that are not socialists.
Though Marx implied an endpoint and provided a framework, he didn’t provide a concrete statement about it. As the book and writer (Engels) progresses, socialism becomes communism lite. That is my description. Engels summarized Marx by saying, “the state withers away.” This was a utopian statement, demonstrating that the endpoint of communism is an economic system. I do not interpret Engel’s as saying the government controls production. Before the government “withers away,” administration falls outside of any government to the people, who then carry onward, ‘each according to his needs and each according to his ability.’
I do not mostly focus on Marx or Engels or Communist theory.
It does not work logically.
It does not account for human behavior
It does not work in practice.
I am not interested in claims that it just has not been done correctly yet.
If it is that hard to do correctly – it can never work.
If what Engels or Marx says fascinates you – fine.
But I have little interest in hypothetical systems that are not even possible.
Socialism fails. Communism fails.
Neither have been done perfectly.
But the close we get to “perfect” socialism or communism the WORSE the failure is.
Free markets have never been done perfectly and likely never will.
But the closer we get to “perfect” free markets the better things work.
As many people note – there is no “libertopia”
But we know from theory and practice that going part way ALWAYS results in improvement.
I recently watched “The West” this is a Ken Burns production – and very Ken Burns like, but I beleive it was done by Steve Ives.
Burns is not actually doing things anymore.
Regardless, it was preachy – everything is today. But ignoring the preaching there was alot of information I was only loosely familiar with.
The documentary does not “talk” about the inevitability of the conflict with Indians. But it provides the evidence that anyone with half a brain would grasp that the outcome was for the most part preordained.
The culture and social structures of Indians and those of Settlers were so dramatically at odds that there was no possibility of accommodation.
It was also interesting because while the documentary provided evidence of somethings – it did not directly address them.
Horses were introduced to North america by the spanish. That is actually important because that altered Indian culture.
\There were indians in the West – particularly the plains prior to Columbus – but they lived differently than what we typically think of as the plains indians. Most of the tribes that we call “plains indians” came from east of the Missisippi and did not arrive in the “great plains” until a few decades before Whites. The “plains Indians” were more warlike, and drove out in many cases nearly exterminating the indians who were their before them. The mythology of the plains indians – their culture their way of life in the plains was not possible without the horse.
Today we have fights – sometimes court battles over the rights of indians in the black Hills of the Dakotas.
But there is not a tribe that currently claims the Black Hills that was present in these “sacred grounds” at the time of Columbus.
John, you need not focus on Marx and Engels, but they originated the theory, so I think it the best to utilize their definitions, and when using the words differently, provide explanations, so everyone understands your context. I think Marx delayed writing the second volume because he had difficulty when reality hit him in the face. Engels wrote the next two books, 17(?) years later, slightly changing some of the original statements written by Marx.
I am not fascinated by Marxism except to the extent many wish to dump capitalism in favor of Marxism and many differing ideas of communism and socialism. But at the same time, I wish the words spoken about socialism were correct, or people redefined what they were talking about. I think that is where we bat heads. Often, you do not provide definitions for the words and ideas. On the present ideas, I think it the best to start off with the classical definitions of the words and then add explanations so all will comment on the same thing.
Here we have yet another example of John Say’s insanity.
He is completely unable to maintain a coherent, logical train of thought.
His comments wander aimlessly from disconnected thought to disconnected thought,.
He begins by ranting incoherently about socialism, communism, Marx and Engels, but then suddenly drifts off into a discussion about the Ken Burns production of “The West”. What exactly is the point he is trying to make by discussing the culture of the Indians, the origins of horses, the warlike nature of the plains Indians, and court battles over the Black Hills of the Dakotas
What on earth is going through his mind????
How is any of this connected ???
This is highly abnormal behavior. He is clearly unhinged and completely disconnected from reality. He lives in a bizarre fantasy world where he is compelled to give voice to every disconnected thought that flitters through his diseased mind.
SM – I do not care all that much about Marx and Engels precise definitions for two reasons.
No one has or can actually impliment what they concocted,
and while there are specific reasons why Socialism is somewhat worse than ALL forms of “Big government”
All forms of Big government underperform smaller govenrment – that should be relatively trivial to understand.
Even at those servies that ONLY govnerment can deliver, Govenrment is Horribly inefficient – that is a tautology – it is ALWAYS less efficient to FORCE someone to do as you want than to allow them to do as they please so long as they do not harm others.
Freedom is the mother of prosperity.
In this thread I am not focused on Socialism per se, but on rebutting the incredible idiocy that Fascism is not socialism.
With respect to defintions – there are probably hundreds of defintions of socialism.
I am not the slightest interested in debating the nuances of different permutations of a failed system.
For the purpose of discrediting the idiots claiming that Fascism is not socialism – either of Two arguments are damning.
The first is that every consequential fascist said over and over that they were socialists – often saying they were the only true socialists. I take them at their word.
Next, all fascist governments have the major elements of socialism.
I do not need to get deeper into definitions than that and I am not interested in fighting some “not a true scottsman” fallacy.
Regardless, I politely take issue with your argument that Socialism is an economic system and fascism is a political system.
Socialism MUST be a political system – Socialism can ONLY be imposed by govenrment.
Fascism is a political system – but it is a political system whose economics are socialism.
Separately one of the incredible proofs of the stupidity of the left and academia is that AFTER the 20th century failure of ALL forms of socialism – directly proportionate to the degree to which they were tried.
That anyone with two brain cells is still arguing for them
Nothing has brought the poverty and hardship on people that socialism has.
Whether we are talking about the CCP which had a standard of living no different at Maos death than when the last emperor took power at the turn of the 20th century.
Or the USSR which over nearly a century fell far behind the west.
Or we are talking the rivers of blood that socialism brought – from the French Revolution forward.
‘SM – I do not care all that much about Marx and Engels’ precise definitions for two reasons…’
That’s surprising, especially since you often point out how the left distorts language. Socialism is the perfect example. Today, it is used as a pleasant, feel-good term, and that only happens when people aren’t held to a clear understanding of what socialism actually is and its history. The word has been so watered down that many young people treat it as if it simply means ‘sharing.’
We’ve allowed yet another linguistic distortion that softens the seriousness of the underlying philosophy. If these kids were required to explain what they actually mean by ‘socialism,’ they’d end up describing something entirely different, yet many parents don’t know the meaning of the word or its history either.
History matters. Marx’s revolutionary framework is being repackaged and applied to new groups. Letting the language and the history drift only makes it easier to obscure the evilness of the system.
“Socialists cannot be fascist.”
How ignorant are you ?
ALL Fascists are Socialists.
Mussolini defined Fascism as
“Everything in the state
nothing outside the state
nothing against the state”
That is socialism.
“stop throwing around words like “fascist” that you do not understand.”
Take your own advice. Anyone that claims that “socialists can not be fascists” is either a moron or a liar.
Hopefully you are the former.
By the way, the UK’s government is Labour. Socialist. Socialists cannot be fascist.
By the way, your fellow commie fascists in Antifa make the same lying claim. If you don’t like being in bed with your fellow lying commie fascists in Antifa, you shouldn’t have climbed in that commie bed with them.
Another BTW: Marx and Engels never called it “socialism”, or “liberalism”, or “progressivism” or “labour”. Unlike you current day commies, they unapologetically and honestly called it exactly what they named it: communism.
Every time your latest name leaves people with the taste of shyte in their mouths, you try to escape who you are by choosing a new name.
Trannying your names is like trying to convince us we can swallow your commie turds if we start with the clean end you washed.
Nope.
Hillary Clinton and John Kerry at the EU, “called for government crackdowns on free speech.”
You have hard evidence that the totalitarian/authoritarian models come straight from your camp, imitating INGSOC.
Nice try…but as usual you fail in diversion and obfuscation.
^ Anonymous says: December 6, 2025 at 12:48 PM ^
“… How about America standing up to Donald’s totalitarianism? He seems to think modelling himself on Benito is a clever move. ”
Your conjecture of Benito Mussolini and Donald Trump is a completely flagrant fallacy (Lie), of which the allegations of your post are unfounded because there is no supporting or plausible relationship between the two in comparison.
Benito Mussolini ‘owned’ his press:
Il Popolo d’Italia was an Italian newspaper published from 15 November 1914 until 24 July 1943. It was founded by Benito Mussolini as a pro-war newspaper
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Il_Popolo_d’Italia
He was the Italian Citizen Kane (Randolph Hearst) of that period. He used his press to bring about Fascist modalities to transform Italian society into a highly militarized, totalitarian state that glorified military values, mandated military training for citizens from a young age, and used a powerful paramilitary force to enforce control.
Totalitarian Control: Mussolini’s regime sought to integrate all aspects of society into the state, declaring in The Doctrine of Fascism that “The State is all embracing”. This control extended to social life, the economy, and the physical development of the population.
Universal Military Enrollment: The fascist government mandated compulsory enrollment in military or semi-military organizations for all physically able Italian males aged 8 to 55.
Youth Indoctrination: From childhood through adulthood, citizens received moral and physical education within schools and Fascist youth organizations to prepare them for their “task as a soldier”. Military courses were implemented in all schools and universities, creating a pervasive militaristic atmosphere from infancy.
Blackshirts (MVSN): The Fascist paramilitary squads, known as the Blackshirts, were incorporated into an official state militia, the Voluntary Militia for National Security (MVSN), in 1923. This force, loyal to Mussolini, was used to suppress political opponents, particularly socialists and communists, through violence and intimidation, effectively blending party control with state authority.
Glorification of War and Violence: Mussolini glorified military values such as discipline, obedience, and physical strength. He famously declared, “A minute of the battlefield is worth a lifetime of peace”. The regime consistently promoted the idea that a large, strong population was necessary for Italy to function as a world-class military power and reclaim the grandeur of the ancient Roman Empire.
Propaganda: The regime built a massive cult of personality around Mussolini as “Il Duce” (the Leader) and used extensive propaganda to promote the image of a strong, unified, and powerful Italy capable of mobilizing millions of men for war.
By implementing these measures, Mussolini created a society organized like an army, where every citizen’s life was subject to strict military discipline and dedicated to the service and expansion of the Fascist state.
—
That’s not Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America
Re.: ^ Anonymous says: December 6, 2025 at 12:48 PM ^
Now then Anonymous (at 12:48 PM ), if you would conjecture together Benito Mussolini and Nicolás Maduro,
We would be able to come around and entertain that notion.
I will personally push for the impeachment and removal of Trump the moment he actually does anything Truly totalitarian.
But Trump’s lawful and constitutional actions do not become totalitarian – because you repeat the word totalitarian often enough.
Just as a man does not become a woman because you call him She often enough.
Trump is doing what he promissed – which is incredibly rare for a politician.
It is precisely that he is doing what he promised that has the left pissed off.
He is dismantling a small portion of the failed socialism those of you on the left have imposed on the country -unconstitutionally and unlawfully. Often without the support of voters.
He is following the law and constitution.
If you do not like what he is doing – you can change that by changing the law and constitution.
That is the opposite of Totalitarian.
It is the Opposite of Fascism.
Trump is the actual anti-fascist.
How about America standing up to Donald’s totalitarianism? He seems to think modelling himself on Benito is a clever move.
You British wankers didn’t know what totalitarianism was during Bribery Biden’s four years of police state fascist error. In fact, that post makes it look more like commies of a feather flock and shit together.
Meanwhile there’s 85+ UK hajji child rape gangs running free because of your vaunted justice system, you compensate by arresting and charging Brits for daring to openly criticize as well as for silently praying.
You seen to think that trying to model yourself on Joseph Goebbels, while holding a circle jerk with your fellow commies, the Democrat Marxist Useless Idiots, will be an effective way to lie often and hard enough to make you believable.
You didn’t get the news over in the UK? It didn’t work in the 2024 election – but then, as you commies always believe you’ll get it right the next time, maybe you have the same optimistic belief that Lyin’ Like A Biden will finally work.
Face it Ano.
You need help. Is Hitler under that bed of yours.
Fine. Apple, Google, Meta and X can all refuse access to any and all nations that prohibit free speech. See how they like them apples.
Better is to publish that X et al have removed all servers from those countries, so no X owned or rented facilities exists there. If the users want to connect to X they of course can, the internet is global. If the bureaucrats want to block that they can firewall the EU, but then it is them, not X, blocking the users. Let the users know that.
Further since X would then be located only in countries were free speech is protected, the EU could not tax or fine them directly, the EU would have to get judgement against X in the country where the “offending” X server is located, and that would not happen because what X is doing is legal there. Let the users know that too.
Yet another profoundly stupid comment.
You are entirely missing the point.
Musk could certainly move all his servers out of the EU and stop doing business there. Because of the international reach of the internet, this would have no impact whatsoever on the ability of anyone, anywhere to comment on anything. There would be no free speech restrictions at all. But Musk has absolutely no interest in the free speech aspects of X. The only thing that interests him is making money, and X is simply a source of revenue from advertising. Nothing more, nothing less.
But if the EU pulled his business license and shut down his BUSINESS operations then he would be deprived of the advertising revenue, and that is all he cares about. He has no interest in “free speech” beyond his ability to make money from it. He would lose all the advertising revenue that he gathers, which is actually the entire reason for the existence of X. The platform is not primarily a speech entity. It is primarily a money making business that simply uses the speech of its users to create revenue.
THAT IS THE POINT.
You seem to think that Musk is some sort of champion of “free speech”
You are delusional.
All he cares about is making money.
The EU would be perfectly happy for him to refuse to pay the fine so they could shut down his BUSINESS OPERATIONS and deprive him of revenue. The losses in revenue would vastly outweigh any fines.
“You seem to think that Musk is some sort of champion of “free speech”
You are delusional.
All he cares about is making money.”
This seems to be an unsubstantiated and “profoundly stupid comment” to use the ready words you like. It also seems to be very hurtful comment that might justify censorship and perhaps prosecution followed by some jail time to make sure you understand your offense.
“But if the EU pulled his business license and shut down his BUSINESS operations then he would be deprived of the advertising revenue”
That is not the case at all. If I run a website in the United States and someone from Europe visits it, I still get the ad revenue. What will really happen is that the EU will for Apple and Google to remove the X App from their respective app repos for phones in the EU. This will vastly decrease usage.
You see, they’ve learned from the Stasi’s mistakes. They don’t need to ferret out every possible morsel of unwanted information, they just need to make it harder. The mass of people will take the path of least resistance and consume their propaganda. They don’t need to convince everyone, just a bare majority to shut up and obey.
The EU would love that. They want to prevent their citizens from seeing opposing views. That’s what this is all about. There’s a wonderful quote from the old Sci-Fi “Alpha Centauri”:
“As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth’s final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
Commenter Suze (@ 7:37 a.m.) reminds us of several the missteps and wrongs committed by Hillary Clinton. Excellent.
I also am thinking of Hillary’s speech and conversations with a plethora of European and world leaders at the Munich Security Conference (after losing the election to Trump in 2016), where she told virtually the whole world that Donald Trump was a “danger” to America and Europe. She was also overheard saying frightening things about Trump in one-on-one and group conversations among Europe’s leaders, some of which were published. (For the next two+ years -mostly 2017-2018, she went on to tell a national television audience (including CNN and PBS) that Trump was “a clear and present danger” to America and the world.
If we want to talk about potential causality, and the EU’s subsequent “infamous Digital Services Act (DSA)” ostensibly designed to prevent harmful “disinformation” and “incitement” that threatens world and domestic safety, let’s talk about the “danger” to Trump and others inspired by Hillary Clinton on the world stage. As Shakespeare said, “Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.” ‘
The hypocrisy here is astounding.
American companies have no “god given right” to operate in other countries in ways that contravene those countries laws.
American law does not “protect” companies that choose to operate in other countries. If a company wants to operate in other countries then they are obligated to follow THAT country’s laws. Failure to do so may result in being banned from doing business there.
The US has banned dozens of foreign companies, mostly from China, from doing business here.
Look no further than the ban on Tik Tok, a social media company similar to X. The US government demanded that it be sold to a US company or be banned from doing business here.
It seems that it is perfectly fine for the US to ban foreign companies, but it is an affront when US companies are banned or fined in other countries.
TOTAL HYPOCRISY !!!!!!
China doesn’t have free-speech either.
I wonder why.
What exactly is the point of this stupid comment ???
You seem to be perfectly happy when the US threatens Tik Tok, but when other countries threaten X you are offended.
HYPOCRISY !!!!!!!
You fail to see. EU did have free speech after the WWII. But some power hungry jerks just want everyone to shut up and listen to only them.
The European Union was only formed in 1993, so 48 years after the end of Second World War. So how, oh genius, can you state it had “free speech” after WWII?
Dustoff – the EU has never had free speech in the way the US has. But they have become increasingly power hungry more recently.
For a long time Europe – and particularly Germany have banned The sale or presenation of NAZI Paraphenalia.
As if censoring things actually works.
More recently as challenges to failed left wing governments have risen the response of those in power has been to use the power they have to try to suppress their political opponents. This in turn has lead to more popular and more extreme opposition.
The EU as well as individual European govenrment are failing states.
The capture of EU governance by left wing nut climate nazi’s has resulted in energy costs that are double those of the US (before the Ukraine war, now they are even higher). This and other factors are increasingly making the EU uncompetitive in world markets.
Airbus is a major competitor to Boeing – but Airbus was forced to move production for US markets to the US.
The same is happening with the manufacture of European Cars for the US – increasingly manufacturing is moving to the US.
The EU is deindustrializing – it can not compete economically and demographic issues are also negatively impacting the sustainability of EU standard of living.
The Ukraine war and the energy problems it has caused have further agrevated the EU’s problems.
The US did not “threaten” TikTok – it barred them from collecting private data of US persons and sharing it with the Chinese govenrment.
That is pretty close to the OPPOSITE of what the EU is doing.
The only hypocrisy is YOURS.
You do not know what the word hypocrisy actually means.
Typical of the left you are abusing the meaning of words
Doing so is a fallacy – a form of red herring, an appeal to emotion, because logic is impossible with you are deliberately missrepresenting the meaning of words.
You got it! we here in free america ARE perfectly happy. I bet you are not.
You’re a moron. What the DSA is trying to do is censor AMERICANS, too. Did you miss this? Or are you the typical dumb Democrat?
“Clinton called upon European officials to force Elon Musk to censor American citizens under the DSA.”
So what if the DSA is censoring AMERICANS.
American law does not apply anywhere else but in America.
EU law does not apply anywhere but in the EU.
What you are demanding is that the EU recognize US law.
Try turning that around.
If you think the EU is obligated to follow US law with regard to AMERICANS in the EU, then the US is obligated to follow EU law for Europeans in the US.
Your thinking is profoundly shallow and chauvinistic.
ATS – You are incorrect – in many instances american law does apply accross the world and visa versa.
Depending on design and implementation factors either repression or freedom can be contagious.
Globalists desparately seek international agreements that set minimum tax rates globally – because without them capital will flow to the lowest tax locality – this is one of the reasons that Republicans should NOT have agreed to expand the SALT tax deduction.
Both in the US and globally states and nations should not be insulated from the impacts of their policies.
Allowing people to deduct their state and local taxes from their federal taxes is a subsidy to high tax states.
If the citizens of a high tax state value the services provided by those taxes sufficiently to pay for them – that is fine.
But we already know that as taxes in high tax states increase – people are leaving.
And to the extent we can acheive that – that is exactly what we want – a free market in government – where states and nations that make choices that make their citizens happy are rewarded with more people and more investment.
While those that make poor choices are punished by people leaving and taking their tax revenue with them.
The same is true outside of Taxes.
Americans would not mostly care if Europeans became ever more repressive with respect to liberties like free speech.
Of course that would mean that the US deaths in WWI and WWII fighting for the freedom of Europe were a waste.
I know this is hard for you left wing nuts but “National Socialism” is Socialism – and more important it is government that controls all of your lives – The third reich is just a more extreme version of the modern european governments.
It does not matter much what group government picks as winners and losers – whether that is aryans or muslims, Whether it is straight people or trans. When government decides our values for us – it is ultimately to our detriment and often leades o bloodshed even genocide.
You should not forget that while the German people might not have known about the death camps. they knew about the overall policies of the Third Reich. They knew that various out groups were being discriminated against by government, having their rights curtailed.
I would note that the US under FDR did the same things with Japanese Americans – even those who were citizens.
Our government took their property and sent them to concentration camps.
Those camps may have been less horriffic than the Nazi’s but the difference was only of the magnitude of the offense.
Ultimately there is little difference between governments that supress freedom – Whether they are left leaning or allegedly right leaning.
I say allegedly – because the NAZI’s were socialists. And more important they were adovates for the same kind of “government knows best” nonsense that we see from the left in Europe and the US.
Under the right circumstances – the freedoms of places like the US are contagious – I gave you the example of taxes. I am not sure there are any examples of places that tax the crap out of their people that do not result in people leaving for places they do not – if that is possible.
But restrictions on liberty can also be contagious.
Honestly the EU’s concept of censorship is impossible to comply with – it is highly subjective. It violates the core principle that people must be able to KNOW that they are violating the law for a law for a law to be valid.
But more intrusively – the EU is not merely censoring its own people – it is demanding that companies that are only nominally in The EU, perform that censorship for them.
If the EU wish to do the dirty work of censoring its own people – that would be one thing.
While Turley and I would – and have decried European nations harrassing their own people over free speech, even offensive speech,
atleast people would know who to blame – their own government.
Neither the EU nor the US make Banks responsible to catch bank robbers.
But that is exactly what the EU is doing.
They are punishing global internet companies for failing to do the dirty work of censoring people for them.
Musk’s purchase of Twitter was the begining of the end for the censorship industrial complex.
Not because everyone suddenly moved to Twitter, but because very quickly Musk was able to reduce the staff at Twitter by over 70%.
How ? By radically reducing censorship.
Censorship is incredibly expensive – again why we can not have the EU forcing private companies to do the dirty work for them.
That will increase costs and decrease freedom for everyone.
Post Musk’s takeover of Twitter we saw downsizing though out the internet – Google, Facebook, …. all slowly laid off their censors.
Why ? Because censorship is expensive and it has not proven to be a worthwhile value add, and investors – shareholders do not invest in waste.
Again something the left can not seem to learn – and why they desparately strive for some form of world govenrment.
People are not willing to pay for the things YOU think have value – like censorship.
Just as they ultimately are not willing to pay for the services that high tax states provide.
Investment moves very easily – and it is nearly impossible for govenrment to stop that.
Those with the money to invest face more obstacles in moving – but not insurmountable ones.
If there ever was any doubt that John Say is certifiably insane, then this incoherent post removes all doubt.
JOHN SAY IS CERTIFIABLY INSANE !!!!!!!
He is responding to my comment that American law applies only in America by making the absurd statement that “in many instances american law does apply accross the world and visa versa.”
Then he proceeds to rant incoherently about tax rates and the deductibility thereof from state and local taxes.
He then rambles incoherently about deaths in WWI and WWII, the third Reich, and whether the German people knew about the death camps.
From there he continues rambling about FDR and the internment of Japanese Americans, and whether or not the internment camps were different from the German camps.
He then concludes with a rant about censorship and the international movement of money.
Not once does he address his original statement that “in many instances american law does apply accross the world and visa versa.”
This is a classic example of the symptoms of pressure of thought and pressure of speech, and the flight of ideas that characterize schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. These people have an uncontrollable urge to give voice to any random disconnected thought that crosses their mind. All the thoughts he gives voice to here are completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, and completely disconnected from the previous thought, and the following thought.
It is a jumble of absurd disconnected statements that make absolutely no sense.
JOHN SAY IS CERTIFIABLY INSANE !!!!!!!
ATS – insult is not argument.
Regardless, should I care what some idiot who is unwilling to comment using ANY identity and whose remarks are logically inconsistent thinks of me ?
ROFL
My point – which you entirely missed is that the actions and laws of nations (and states) go beyond their borders.
TODAY the US is the worlds only superpower. We are the largest market in the world. There is almost nothing that we do not massively influence. We are the largest importer in the world, we are one of the largest exporters in the world.
We are the largest and most stable place to invest in the world.
Every single decision the US govenrment makes impacts the world.
In 2009 to address the Housing/Financial crisis the Fed Started printing money like crazy.
Many classical and Austrian economists warned that would trigger inflation.
It did not IN THE US, but it drive food prices up across the world destabilizing Africa and the Mideast – pretty much anywhere in the world were people were ACTUALLY living close to the edge. The result was turmoil and conflict across north Africa and throughout the mideast – as well as other places.
WE DID THAT. Our Economic policies created a mess in significant portions of the world.
I addressed Taxes – because the substantial difference between Western European Taxes – the consequence of Western European quasi socialism (and a few other factors) are drawing investment out of Western Europe and into the United States and elsewhere.
The entire world is currently in the midst of a massive restructuring politically economically and culturally, – Trump had NOTHING to do with that, Beyond being able to see that coming and getting his surfboard to the ride that wave.
There are many things going on at once. The US has been substantially diminishing its role in Europe, the Mideast, and Africa – those are no longer in our national interests.
Many of us grasp that Russia’s status as a super power rests entirely on having the worlds largest supply of nuclear weapons.
Russia has OBVIOUSLY been unable to fight a conventional war against the US since the Gulf War I.
The US anihiliated the best of Soviet weapons and a soviet trained military that was three times larger than the US forces they faced.
Irag did not get anhiliated because they were cowards, or poorly trained. They were anhiliated in 100 hours because they never got the chance to fight. Since then Russias military has gotten Weaker and the US stronger. We are seeing that in Ukraine.
Russia should have routed Ukraine in 72 hours. The world expected that. Instead they quickly found themselves over extended and their forces being picked off and they reverted back to traditional soviet tactics. The result was a bloody mess for the past 3 years that has weird resemblances to WWI rather than anything modern. Regardless a country with 1/5 the population of Russia has made Russia pay a huge price in blood and treasure fro every inch of Ukraine.
Anyone that thinks Russia could stand up to Poland – much less NATO is a complete idiot.
Hopefully there will be a peace deal shortly.
Regardless Russia is not invading anyone for several decades.
Europe is a complete mess, most of western europe except for France is experiencing demographic collapse – not as bad as China, Japan or Russia but still a major problem for decades to come.
Europe is in the process of deindustrializing. They have made innumberable stupid political and economic decisions over the past several decades and now they are going to have to pay for them. These problems are NOT uniform throughout Europe.
Norway. Sweden, and Finland are better off than most of Europe – but they are also only about 1/10th of Europe by population.
And Ireland is doing reasonable well.
Personally I would not bet on the EU surviving that much longer.
All that said – They ARE militarily capable of dealing with Russia ALL BY THEMSELVES.
The US is not likely to leave NATO anytime soon – but NATO will be increasingly divorced from US interests and Focus.
AS we move forward the US is going to care less and less about Russia, Europe, the Mideast and Africa.
They are not our problem and they are of decreasing importance to the US.
Conversely the US interests in the Pacific, the Anglo Sphere (AU NZ, CA, and the UK), and the western Hemisphere are going to increase.
There is alot of attention being paid to Venezeualla right now. The Drug and Immigration issues are real, but they are also not our Primary goals. Venezuela was the most prosperous country in South America prior to Chavez. The way to stem illegal immigration from south and central america is to end the failed socialist experiments in the Western Hemisphere.
NAFTA demonstrated that Other nations in the western Hemisphere could replace China as a US import source.
But that requires significantly diminishing the power of Drug Cartels and restoring good government in those countries.
Regardless, China not Russia is the immediate significant national security threat to the US.
That too is likely only a short term issue – China has massive problems and could change radically at almost anytime in the next decade. And failing socialist nations are dangerous.
There is a remark that Salena Zito made about Trump in 2016 that has proven precient and applies to this debate with you – and frankly all debates with the left.
Zito said – Trump’s detractors take him litterally, but not seriously while his supporters take him seriously but not literally.
US law does not “literally” apply elsewhere. EU law does not “literally” apply to the US.
But Most everything the US does SERIOUSLY impacts the rest of the world.
With respect to this stupid EU DSA nonsense – this is NOT fundimentally an effort by the EU to make law for its own people.
It is an effort to pretend that The ideology, politics and economics of the EU are not a bloody mess and that the EU is still relevant to the world. While the EU is globally more consequential that Russia – they are NOT in the same league as China and the US – and frankly China is unlikely to remain there long either – but dying superpowers are dangerous.
Regardless, Rubio should back up his words with actions, And the US shoudl tell the EU they do NOT get to dictate how or whether US companies moderate content – not in the US and honestly not anywhere.
If the EU wishes to screw its own citizens – it should do so directly.
Trying to leverage US companies to control their own people is NOT something the US should allow.
And trying to dictate speech policy to the world is not either.
No EU law does not apply to the US – But what US social media companies must do to follow stupid EU law will negatively impact the liberty of americans.
I used Taxes as an example of how the bad and good policies of nations and states negatively and positively impact them,
and How the left is striving – but mostly Failing to thwart the competition between governments – a sort of free market in govenrment, that government (just like Big businesss) does not like.
The point was NOT litterally about taxes – which you seem to miss, but aboutt the fact that even governments and states can be disciplined by the free markets.
It is really odd that left wing nuts want people from $hithole countries to be able to flock to the US by the millions.
But actively want to preclude the wealthy, and the merely well off from leaving badly governed countries (or states) for better run ones.
Whether it is the wealthy or the poor, people “migrate” from Bad Government and no opportunity to better government.
The nations that all the millions of immigrants flooding the US under Biden came from is pretty much by definition a list of $hithole countries.
The states within the US that people are leaving are similarly states that are FAILING
The fact that people are leaving is the proof.
“Not once does he address his original statement that “in many instances american law does apply accross the world and visa versa.””
I addressed it – and did so again above.
You failed to understand – which is not surprising.
“This is a classic example of the symptoms of pressure of thought and pressure of speech”
Please save us all from more moronic left wing nut made up nonsense.
DO YOU HAVE AN ARGUMENT ?
If not you would be wise not to make a fool of your self with pseudo intellectual claptrap.
But then again you are one of the idiocts that does not think Fascism is socialism – despite the fact that fascism has every element of socailism and that every Fascist since Mussolini has been CLEAR that they are socialists.
Your hypocracy is astounding.
This is not about US or other companies. It is about the efforts of the EU to censor not just their own people but the world.
Even in the US were there are a very few limited number of things that Government can censor – incitement to violence, the distribution of adult content to children, …
We still find it nearly impossible to create objective standards for what can and can not be censored and we constantly find Governemnt – particularly left wing nut government seeking to expand what can be censored.
NO Hate speach can not be censored.
We also find – as this article points out in the EU that Govenrment is CONSTANTLY trying to leverage corporations to do what it can not do itself.
If the EU wishes to censor its OWN people – then The Governments of the EU should censor their people.
It is NOT legitimate for them to FORCE private parties – whether individuals or business to do so for them.
You do not seem to get that this is not merely about censorship of the citizens of the EU – it is about the EU leveraging third parties to censor the world for them.
It is about the EU trying to censor America.
We just saw a version of that with the Brit being arrested n the UK for traveling to the US taking a picture of himself with friends hunting with a gun, posting it on social media and returning to Britain where he was arrested – for a photo of himself with a gun in the US.
Oh for pity’s sake. The arrest of the chap for posing with shotgun was blindingly obvious, massive overreach by some very dim police officers, which is why it was immediately thrown out by prosecutors. Properly appointed prosecutors, not fake ones like Barbie Halligan, by the way. If the wrongly arrested chap goes to court, his local constabulary will end up having to settle pretty quickly. The police have been absolutely ridiculed here for that arrest, and the government is not stupid enough to try to cover for them.
The EU is not trying to censor the US. However, it is trying to enforce its laws in its territory. If Musk does not like it, he can lose his licence to operate in the EU. Up to him. No different, as others have said, from the US being very firm with TikTok in the USA.
Oh for pity’s sake. The arrest of the chap for posing with shotgun was blindingly obvious, massive overreach by some very dim police officers
Your excuse of “very dim police officers” and claims of PROPER prosecutors flies in the face of your unwillingness and inability of your supposedly superior prosecutors and police to deal with thousands of child rapes and some murders at the hands of Muslim rape gangs. We have Barbie Halligan and you want us to buy instead into the courage of your Walter Mitty Prosecutors:
DAMNING NEW DATA DISPROVES LABOUR’S GROOMING GANG NARRATIVE
Labour’s frontbench dismiss the rape gangs scandal as a “dogwhistle”
https://courage.media/2025/05/05/damning-new-data-disproves-labours-grooming-gang-narrative/
Here’s an offer: keep your version of what you consider proper prosecutors and proper police over there on your side of the pond. Even Barbie Halligan can figure out how to deal with gangs of Illegal Alien rapists – and if her looks offend you, go find some lumbering British sow with an ass two axe handles wide to fawn over. Give her bonus points if she has all her own teeth.
As is typical of left wing nuts – you do not know what the words you use actually mean.
I – and many others have problems with the US ban of Tiktok.
However that was NOT about TikTok’s free speech.
Nor was it about trying to leverage TikTok to censor people.
Nor was it about trying to leverage TikTok to enforce US laws on the citizens of other countries.
It was about TikTok being used by the Chinese govenrment to collect private data on US citizens.
And the US did not “ban tiktok” – it Required them to have majority US ownership to continue to operate in the US.
I still think that was wrong. The US govenrment can legitimately ban a company operating in the US from providing private data on US citizens to foreign governments. It can not legitimately ban them from operating in the US.
Regardless, this is not hypocracy.
And you do not know what hypocracy is.
No, I do not know what “hypocracy” is. I do know “hypocrisy”, your posts reek of it.
you mean hegemony not hypocrisy. We are the beacon of freedom to the world. Don’t like our ideals? Well you are not an ally so we ban you.
What are you gonna do about it? nothing. We own you.
Mankind’s Classic Playbook Strategy
1st. Crank up the Censorship of Speech medium (Papers, Books, Magazines, e-Zines, Blogs, Social Walled Gardens (X, Facebook, Telegram), etc.) SILENCE THE MASSES
2nd. Then pony up a War (in this case the EU a la carte Ukraine vs Russia, Under the auspices of Central Bankers).
3rd. Under the War, wash (“cook-the-books”) of the Macro & Micro Economic ledgers (reevaluate entire sphere of Market Assets).
4th. Go on continuing that everything in life is just Rosie (The Winners & Have All’s). While a re-classified portion of the world are indentured debt servants of ‘reparations’ (The War’s Losers & Have-Nots).
5th. Believe that it is ‘In God We Trust’ because it is God’s will (Keep Praying & Paying).
6th. All’s well that ends well and nothing to see here on Planet Earth (console your souls).
If you’re good and keep your nose to the grinding-stone and blinders on, you might even get the Grand Prize of 27 virgins when you arrive at the Saint Peter’s Pearly Gates of Heaven.
Have a glorious life and move on to Heaven.
– “How Sweet it Is!” – (New York City bus driver Ralph Kramden – The Honeymooners (actor: Jackie Gleason)
– “Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get” – ( Mrs. Gump – Forrest Gump (actor: Sally Field)
Just How Dystopian Could Starmer’s Britain Become?
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/just-how-dystopian-could-starmers-britain-become
Clandestine Campaign To Defund ZeroHedge, The Federalist & Breitbart Traced To Kier Starmer Operation
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/clandestine-campaign-defund-zerohedge-federalist-breitbart-traced-kier-starmer-operation
Ah, quoting Zerohedge, the Russian proxy site. You, sir, are Vladimir Putin and I claim my £5.
As an Englishman, let me assure you that the idea that Starmer could pull off a clandestine campaign is daft.
Oh, and is not your Second Point about starting a war not exactly what the Orange Shitgibbon is trying to do right now in the Caribbean?
Somebody has a bad case of constipation.
Wait a minute Anonymous. You told us that you work at Langley but now you tell us that you’re an Englishman. You’ve commented on the law as if you’re a lawyer. You’ve commented on medicine as if you’re a doctor. You’ve commented on tariffs as if you’re an economist. Multiple personality disorder? The evidence is in. You say that all nations have a right to do as they want to. It must follow that your opinion includes the right of a nation to throw homosexuals off of roof tops.
You must mean that a nation is justified in taking the right of the homosexual to protest by speaking out in his defense. There is a great deal of anticipation about what you will be next week.
Personally, the only thing I have claimed, because I am, is an Englishman. Some idiot suggested that I was NSA, and I suggested in return they clearly liked tinfoil titfers…
I have stated the position on LOAC because I have a greater working knowledge of that as a practitioner than some free speech lawyer at George Washington. I also have criticised Turley’s claims about English law, especially when he flagrantly misrepresents legal cases from these isles. For example, no one was arrested for calling someone a leprechaun, nor for singing “Kung fu Fighting”. If he had actually enquired, rather than believe tabloid sensationalism, the individuals concerned were arrested for threatening violence and straight forward racial abuse in pubs.
I stated democratic nations have a right to do as they please. A key adjective there…
Perhaps you should indeed try Thinking It Through!
Ano
Personally, the only thing I have claimed, because I am, is an Englishman.
______________________
OK. So how about not using anonymous and come up wit a name so everyone will know who you are.
It’s really that easy.
So you were baptised Dustoff? Hypocritical idiot.
Will, my family is from Germany. Does that make you happy? Bu the left before WWI.
What a really dumb question.
Dustoff, we all know that this Anonymous is the same as the other Anonymous who now adds being an Englishman to her repertoire of personalities.
Don’t misgender me!
“Don’t misgender me!”
Are you a gerbil?
Think.
There are so many. Yea just can’t count them all.
Very curious indeed. Your vernacular and sentence structure is exactly the same as the person who posts as Anonymous multiple times per day. The similarities are astonishing. You could clear all this up if you would simply tell us that you are not one and the same. The ending of your comment stating that perhaps I should think it through again is the signature ending by the other Anonymous that is another person inside of your multiple personality. Boy oh boy you got us all fooled.
I know who you are.
an Englishman?? NO KINGS here! Gonna throw your tea into the loo.
^TO: Anonymous says: December 6, 2025 at 11:03 AM^
Be careful Son, They’re watching You with great interest!
Re.:
The next Censorship level will be to clip all your fingers down to the “first knuckle” (closest to the palm – the Metacarpophalangeal (MCP) joint), this so that you can still manipulate toilet paper and feed yourself but not allow you to pull a trigger or type messages/comments.
The procedure is administered with something that resembles stainless surgical steel tree-pruning shears, thus fast and efficient. IF your speech continues to be a menace, your tongue will also be removed.
My advice, Enjoy your last bowl of mushy-peas before the come and get you.
But CNN isn’t
interesting
_____________
On his election, in July 2024, Starmer promised that his Labour government would “tread (stomp?) more lightly” on the lives of voters. It is one of a growing multitude of pledges Starmer has broken during his 17 months in office. In this particular case, it took just two months for Starmer to change course, telling delegates at the 2024 Labour Party Conference that the State would, in fact, take greater control over people’s lives.
And the only person who polls worse than Starmer is DJT. Starmer is toast, and his own party may ditch him before too long.
Try to understand, not everyone in the UK backs their PM. Just as ever fewer people in the US back your President.
And the only person who polls worse than Starmer is DJT.
Strut your international cred by reminding us what percentage of the vote did Starmer get – compared to Trump.
The world including the UK comes begging to America with hat in hand, including when the president is Trump. The UK? Why bother going to the UK hat in hand – it’s like trying to bum the price of a coffee off of a beggar.
Yeah, I’m sure Elon is writing them a check. LMAO These Europuds are a complete joke.
Joke you say? They just managed to takedown Musk.
1 hundred million, 10 percent 1 billion, salary from Tesla 50 billion, real good take down. Maybe X should turn the switch off who needs the headache.
They have? All we see it a threat.
But no action
The British leaders do not know whether their arses are punched or drilled.
OT Given the gratuitous killing occurring in the Caribbean, now might be a good time to pick up a cheap holiday cruise! Bon voyage…
Does anyone remember when Anonymous was telling us that they were just innocent fisherman in the boats? Was it just a few weeks ago when we were enlightened by the dear Anonymous?
Check out this YouTube video of one of the boats being boarded by the Coast Guard. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1rW-hBtEDg. Never fear, Anonymous will just carry on in her denial of reality. Self inflicted dementia.
Watching those televised clips, them boats were hikin’ at a pretty good speed. Must’ve been chasing wahoos?
(an actual species).
All passengers get a M16 and a thousand rounds for target practice of local drug smugglers.
What, did you retire Skipper!
US armed forces stop using the M-16.
Michael Shellenberger has a good post on this topic. He explains that the “research” the EU demands is by so-called NGO “trusted flaggers” who will identify items for censorship or warning.
Professor Turley writes, “Under the DSA, the EU can impose fines of up to 6% of an online platform’s annual global revenue for failing to address illegal content, disinformation, or transparency requirements.”
Or to address revenue shortfalls, which are at epidemic levels in Europe. Don’t be surprised if American companies comply, only to have the EU move the goal posts to exact new fines. These are stealth tariffs masquerading as outrage.
Trump leveled the playing field. Now he needs to call Europe’s bluff.
As many commentors have cited before, “Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime.” — Lavrentiy Beria
Diogenes.
As usual, it’s all about the money or pound. (-:
My understanding (and I could well be wrong) is that in order to collect the fine, the EU would have to “domesticate” it for collection in the US, and that requires an order from a US District Court. Normally done by treaty arrangement, these are typically pro forma orders. However, in this case, American courts should refuse domestication on the grounds of the unconstitutionality of the fine.
If it is “unconstitutional”, surely it is unconstitutional for Trump to impose penalties on US universities whose policies he does not like?
And domestication is only necessary if the EU cannot find any nice X assets on the continent, eg plush offices…
Trump doesn’t like them and they are doing illegal stuff.
So if one stated, “The European Commission does not like Musk and X is doing illegal stuff”?
Ano
X is doing illegal stuff”?
____________________________
Speech is illegal in EU. Didn’t use to be.
No it is not. Your stupidity ought to be illegal, however. You are certainly owed a refund on your two “collage” degrees.
What the US universities were doing was not illegal, just something that annoyed the Orange One. Mw asserted that what they were doing WAS illegal, so I was responding sarcastically. Do try to keep up, dear.
So universities are allowing Jews to be harmed by Pals on campus.
What the US universities were doing was not illegal, just something that annoyed the Orange One.
We got us a Brit wanker as a long distance member of those universities New Hitler Youth Movement. Perfectly legal to harass Jewish students, assault them, prevent them from attending classes.
And it whines we aren’t keeping up by electing a president who will put a stop to it.
Sorry, calling out the commie entitlement thought process here; the president must protect citizens from paying for the violation of citizen’s rights.
It’s not a penalty to remove funding from anything the citizen’s disagree with. funding something is akin to promoting it, like a gift.
If universities choose to become communist enclaves, they can fund themselves, no more gifts.
Which citizen? Or does your university education not tell you that if you mean citizens in the plural, the apostrophe comes after the s? In any case, who says that “the citizens” disagree with the universities? Trump is not “the citizens”. Just because enough people were stupid enough to vote for him (and to be fair, the alternative was nearly as bad), does not mean that they agree with every one of his viewpoints.
Which citizen? Or does your university education not tell you that if you mean citizens in the plural, the apostrophe comes after the s?
Oooohhh… our public affairs officer for those universities’ New Hitler Youth Movement has a side gig flexing and posing as a grammar Nazi.
How cute! As you brought up stupid – you might ask yourself if your current intellectual shortcomings are a result of your mother giving you her vibrator collection, hair dryer, and the kitchen toaster as your bath toys.
So hurting Jews is OK with you.
PS What Prez Trump has done to protect them. Is lawful.
If it is “unconstitutional”, surely it is unconstitutional for Trump to impose penalties on US universities whose policies he does not like?
Commie Democrats are always eager to prove they don’t know Jack Shyte about their Constitution. If US universities don’t like the CONDITIONS Trump puts on the taxpayer money they get, while they loved the conditions Biden put on the taxpayer money he gave them…. they don’t have to accept the money.
And we do have laws here that prohibit racial discrimination… don’t want those conditions on your university welfare money? Stop with the racial discrimination in hiring and student enrolment.
British retards should be demanding theIR taxes back they paid to fund the BBC.
You are most certainly wrong.
There is no role for US courts to play.
X is licensed to do business in Europe, and as such, they must adhere to EU law. If they refuse to pay the fine, then the EU simply pulls the license and shuts them down. There is absolutely nothing that a US court can do one way or the other to control what the EU does.
In fact, the EU would like nothing better than for Musk to refuse to pay the fine.
Then they would simply pull his business licenses and shut him down completely.
They would be rid of him for good
There is no doubt that this would be there preferred outcome.
He is right and you are wrong. As you say, the EU’s recourse is to pull the license. That’s not a fine; that’s a complete trade shutdown of X. U.S. courts will be happy to leave the EU to the consequences of its reckless escalation. Good luck with that. Trump is watching.
Your fellow tyrants in Europe are in no position economically to have an escalating trade war with the U.S. They need us more than we need them. Are you as crazy as the clueless apparatchiks in Brussels who dreamed this up?
U.S. courts will not support the control of American companies by foreign tyrants and incompetents, and anyone–including you–who supports the EU’s position will look like a traitor.
Please, take their side. I want you to.
Profoundly stupid comment.
When you say that US courts will not support the control of American companies by foreign tyrants, that is a completely irrelevant and nonsensical statement.
Whether or not US courts “support” what the EU is doing is irrelevant. The EU has absolutely no interest in what US courts think or do.
If X wants to do business in the EU then they are obligated to follow EU law or suffer the consequences.
It’s really that simple.
You can hold your breath and stamp your feet as much as you like, but the EU couldn’t care less.
They will enforce EU law and there is absolutely nothing US courts can do.
So it’s not about money?
Of course it’s not about the money, you idiot.
The EU would like nothing better than for Musk to refuse to pay the fine, so they can shut him down for good.
So you’re against Trump’s tariffs that level the playing field, but you’re for unilaterally shutting down whole companies and prompting a trade war just to shut up the critics of European incompetents?
Has he paid a fine? EU makes a bunch of noise. Can you say Ukraine. But the so called tiger, has no teeth.
Revoking X license in the EU is a perfectly acceptable pathway for this to play out. X refuses to pay and is ‘shut down’ followed by many millions of EU citizens losing any remaining faith in their governments news credibility (something that has already happened) and accessing X anyway via the internet outside official government controlled pathways.
If they refuse to pay the fine, then the EU simply pulls the license and shuts them down.
I for one would enjoy the spectator sport of the E.U’s fascists deciding their mouse balls are big enough to play FAFO over this. Not just with Musk and his wealth and interests on the one hand, but with Trump and Vance with the American government on the other hand.
I’d buy tickets if necessary to see the E.U.’s police state fascists thinking they have the weight to take on Musk and the American government at the same time.
Anonymous at 10:29: I believe you are correct, except it was my understanding that states, not USDCs, must adopt jurisdiction under the Uniform Acts. See Uniform Foreign-Country Money Judgments Recognition Act (2005) and its predecessor, the Uniform Money Judgments Recognition Act of 1962.
lin
You really don’t seem to understand what is going on here.
The EU has no interest in collecting the fines.
They have no interest in “domesticating” the judgement, and no interest the “Uniform Foreign-Country Money Judgments Recognition Act (2005) and its predecessor, the Uniform Money Judgments Recognition Act of 1962”.
They are not going to pursue payment through the US courts.
They couldn’t care less.
They do not want to collect the fines.
What they DO want is for Musk to refuse to pay the fine so they can shut him down pursuant to EU law.
There is absolutely nothing the US courts can do to prevent the EU from shutting him down for failure to pay the fine.
THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT !!!!!
I see now. They want to escalate a trade war. Got it.
Then they should do it and see what becomes of it.
Anonymous@ 12:03:
“You really don’t seem to understand what is going on” with my reply to Anonymous at 10:29. Please try a little reading comprehension and context. You are so eager to jump on whatever I say that you fall off by the wayside every time.
My comment had NOTHING to do with what the EU wants to do with Elon’s denial or refusal with its demands. Can you read?
Try this:
The original article by Turley noted IN THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH that EU “has virtually declared war on free speech and is targeting American companies.”
Did you read that, Anonymous?????
Now, Step 2 (carefully outlined for you): go back and read the comment (@ 10:29).
Since Musk has dual citizenship as well as lucrative U.S. corporations, he may or may not have been included in the writer’s 10:29 comment. Doesn’t matter, because the writer was addressing how U.S. parties would be handled in U.S. courts.
Step 3. Now read my response to the 10:29 comment.
Thanking you anyway, in advance, lin.
You really don’t seem to understand what is going on here.
You clearly don’t understand you have not won yourself one single whit of credibility here. And your analysis of the situation is more BullSchiff.
The police state fascists in the UK who want to control all free speech while giving dozens of Muslim rape gangs a pass can of course pull licenses – whether or not your BullSchiff analysis is correct or not.
The idea that that means Musk is done – versus either Musk, Trump, or both, making it a point to bleed the EU to show them what FAFO looks like – is the kind of crap you hear from commies who have no idea of the extent of Musks wealth and array of specialities that can be leveraged against the EU if they decide they’re big enough to play chicken.
Not to mention Trump watching. The EU is going to pick these fines as the hill they’re willing to die on fighting Trump?
Maybe – but I doubt it.
We dodged a bullet when Hillary Clinton lost her attempt to become president. Sadly we weren’t out of the woods yet and the new leader of the party of disinformation slayers carried on during the Biden administration. The same kind of pressure to censor X and Facebook was applied in America.
You got a nice little business going there Mr. Musk. It would be a shame if anything happened to it.
We expect that your monthly payment will continue and paid in a timely manner. Do we have an understanding Mr. Musk? Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Maduro, and Castro regimes. What was the first thing to go? The right to speak your mind. It is not a stretch to add Clinton, Kerry and Biden to the list. The authoritarian footprint is always the same. When you come across a wolf footprint in the wilderness it is smart to stay on high alert.