This week, Darializa Avila Chevalier was asked if there has ever been a “successful model of socialism anywhere in the world outside the United States in terms of both human rights and widespread economic justice.” The member of the Democratic Socialists of America responded by citing Sweden and Norway. It is a common false claim made by socialist Sen. Bernie Sanders and others. I address the claim head-on in Rage and the Republic.
DSA figures have been claiming that the socialist measures that they are pushing are proven successes in other countries. They often raise the Scandinavian myth. Here is an excerpt from Rage and the Republic:
‘Leaders such as Senator Bernie Sanders have heralded the alleged success of “democratic socialism” in Europe, a pitch that is obviously taking hold with many younger Americans. Sanders and others often refer to the prosperity of Scandinavian socialism, including Sweden and Norway. It is a dangerous myth that is promulgated by many in the media. The question is not whether Scandinavian socialism can work in the United States (it cannot) but whether Scandinavian socialism can work in Scandinavia. Sweden is a particularly curious choice as a model for democratic socialism. In reality, Sweden shows not only the success of capitalism but also the limits of socialism even in a relatively small nation. Sweden turned away from the type of socialist theories increasingly in vogue in the United States.
…
The Scandinavian countries also differ from the United States in other key ways. For example, Norway has largely sustained large public welfare systems through oil revenues. The country imposes a corporate income tax rate of 78 percent on extractive activities to fund its public welfare programs…
Countries like Denmark and Sweden are strong adherents to capitalist principles and are listed among the most capitalist nations on Earth. Indeed, leaders often express surprise by American references to their socialist principles. In 2015, the Danish Prime Minister Lars Rasmussen observed, “I know that some people in the U.S. associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore, I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy.” Likewise, Social Democratic Minister of Finance Kjell‐Olof Feldt stated “That whole thing with democratic socialism was absolutely impossible. It just didn’t work.”
As I discuss, these countries are not only committed to capitalism but also ranked among the most free-market economies in the world. These countries are also very different from the United States:
“When socialism was tried in larger nations in Europe, such as France under François Mitterrand, it failed, and capitalist measures had to be restored. In 2025, the populations of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway are approximately 5.9 million, 10.6 million, and 5.6 million—smaller than many American states.”
The DSA and the American left, including many in the media, continue to sell the public a bill of goods on the success of Scandinavian socialism. Ironically, it is the type of disinformation that the left often cites to justify greater censorship. Despite denials from these very countries, socialists in the United States continue to spread this false claim that there is a socialist paradise over the ocean where collectivists labor in picturesque Nordic fishing villages.
The promulgation of such myths is a central feature of Marxism. Lenin stressed that “we must not confine ourselves exclusively to propaganda in the narrow sense of the word.” Stalin likewise warned that “If our Party propaganda for some reason or other goes lame…then our entire state and Party work must inevitably languish.”
The fact is that socialism has repeatedly failed throughout history. The only way to get a people to embrace it is to rewrite that history. That is precisely what we see not only in the United States, but in the recent claims of incoming British Prime Minister Andy Burnham, who condemned the privatization policies of Margaret Thatcher: “The country surrendered control of the essentials — housing, water, energy, transport — and left people exposed to higher costs.” What he does not mention is that she followed the collapse of socialist policies under Labour Prime Minister James Callaghan in 1977–78 during the so-called “winter of discontent,” which I also discuss in the book.
Chevalier is a true believer who has praised Marxism and the concept of “seizing the means of production.” She won her primary despite comments bragging about her using the American flag to wipe her hands and criticizing the dating of white women as Black and Arab men “Fetishizing ugly colonizer women.”
Given that history, the adoption of the Scandinavian socialism myth is par for the course. Like Zohran Mamdani, she is rallying young, disillusioned, college-educated voters who are told that their struggles stem from the failures of the free market. Instead, they are offered free stuff and the illusion of an economic nirvana where lattes and Pilates are virtually costless.
Indeed, the Scandinavian socialism myth is so enticing that I expect Scandinavians must wonder where they can also find it.
Jonathan Turley is a law professor and the New York Times best-selling author of “Rage and the Republic: The Unfinished Story of the American Revolution.”
lol. They are two of the most cut-throat capitalist societies out there.
Okay liberals. Name the bright shining nation that is the example of socialism lifting everyone out of poverty and giving equity to everyone including the same salary and benefits for the workers and leaders?
Socialism is a hoax to.install communism, which always leads to Totalitarianism.
Name a country with socialism that didn’t have a communist lead government?
Capitalism made you too stupid the spell.
“the spell”? haha! TDStupid
You should look at the first comments posted on this topic. Your answer awaits there.
Trump had motive to have Lindsey Graham poisoned.
God that is the most stupid thing I’ve ever read posted here.
BAN FOR LIFE!
You are ridiculous.
Meanwhile, in Trump’s war of choice based on a lie from Netanyahu, we have lost a total of 17 brave service members–or, as Trump likes to call them, “suckers and losers”. Trump or Vance will probably try to show up when their caskets are delivered to the US, pretending to give a crap, but really, because there are cameras there. Trump is responsible for their unnecessary deaths, and he should not try to steal their valor by insinuating himself into their return home. Who wants him? Just like the FIFA finals–why does he try to steal the glory and adulation earned by these athletes? Because the cameras that his pathetic ego require will be there, along with a large audience who want to see the athletes–not him.
How many more people have to die, including Iranian civilians and civilians of other countries, how many billions of our tax dollars have to be wasted and how many enemies does Trump have to make before the Republicans will stand up to this tyrant and force him to account, and/or cut off the money, which is their job? The majority of Americans do NOT support this war and do not believe the lie about Iran having a nuclear weapon.
And, speaking of wasting our money, WHY is testosterone testing being required of our male service members? Can’t even you MAGAs see through Hegseth’s fake hypermasculinity? From CBS News:
“Potential benefits of TRT include increased muscle mass, reduced fat, improved libido, mood stabilization, and enhanced bone density for those with true deficiencies.
However, experts caution that TRT is not a performance enhancer for healthy individuals and carries risks such as reduced sperm production, testicular shrinkage*, increased red blood cell count (risking blood clots), and potential cardiovascular effects. Testosterone levels naturally decline with age, and lifestyle factors like stress, poor sleep, and overexertion can temporarily lower levels, which may not require hormone therapy …..
Controversy and Expert Opinion
Medical organizations, including the Endocrine Society and American College of Physicians, generally recommend against blanket testosterone screening due to natural fluctuations and the risk of overtreatment. Critics argue the program may be costly and medically unnecessary for many service members, emphasizing that TRT should target those with confirmed deficiencies rather than being used as a general optimization tool…
TRT is optional and medically supervised, primarily for diagnosed hypogonadism. Benefits are significant for those with true deficiencies but limited for healthy individuals.
Risks include fertility issues, cardiovascular concerns, and dependency on therapy. Holistic health management is critical, addressing sleep, stress, and lifestyle factors.”
*Hegseth?
How often do you attend the globalist Antifa indoctrinatation classes?
What’s so difficult about staying on topic. I want to hear rants about socialism.
Trump never said that. It’s, literally, yet another made-up ‘factoid’ from the TDS left.
Iran killed atleast 50,000 of its own people just for seeking more freedom.
Why are you off on some tangent regarding service men ?
When you join the military you voluntarily cede alot of rights – including significant rights over your medical care.
Biden forced healthy soldiers who would not benefit to get a vaccination that might kill them.
And your whigged out over T Testing ?
It must be torture to live with insanity. Obsess irrationally much
God Bless Them All
Wait! What, exactly, do people sign up for when they choose military service? Clue: Warfighters in the military exist to die. They are blessed when they don’t. Has there ever been a citizen who entered his country’s military with no expectation of death? Oh, and you have quite a way to go to catch up to people on American highways, where 118 die every day on average, ~43K per annum. If a person’s overriding aspiration is to continue living, I would recommend they not enter into military service or drive on America’s highways.
Many liberals reflexively think American corporations “don’t pay their fair share”in taxes. (Without explaining how this “fair share” is calculated. )
They have no idea that “socialist Sweden’s” corporate tax rate is even lower than ours.
Michael…
I think the Swedish corporate tax rate is about 20% while the US federal rate is about 21% on top of which there are state and local taxes. So, it looks as if you are right. Good call.
There are also no inheritance taxes in Sweden, I believe. And the share of taxes paid by the lower and middle classes is higher than in the US.
That is roughtly correct – in the nordic countries the people receiving a government benefit also pay the taxes for that benefit.
This argument looks only at the money taken out of a paycheck, while completely ignoring the money that flows back in. A typical lower- or middle-class American worker pays lower federal income taxes, but is immediately forced to pay a massive “private tax” out-of-pocket just to survive. This includes thousands of dollars every year for health insurance premiums, medical deductibles, expensive childcare, and decades of student loan debt.
In Sweden, the middle class willingly pays a flat municipal tax (averaging 29% to 35%) and a 25% consumer VAT because it acts as a socialized investment. In return, their healthcare is virtually free, higher education is completely tuition-free, and childcare is heavily subsidized. When you calculate real disposable income after factoring in basic human survival costs, the Nordic middle class has far more financial predictability and security than the American middle class.
CORPORATIONS DO NOT PAY TAXES. Corporate tax is paid by the customers of the corporations. What an obtuse discussion; corporate tax discussions are equivocation-cum-fraud.
Thank you!
The ones who do all of the work are not getting rich, but the ones who do none of the hard work are. This is wrong, and it goes against all the lip service about work ethic and rugged individualism.
Nobody who got rich in capitalism didn’t work hard. As for those who inherit, within three generations, 90% of the heirs of those plutocrats have lost all the wealth.
Take the Vanderbilt Family. They’re a great example. Starting with $100 he borrowed to buy a boat, Cornelius Vanderbilt became one the richest men in US history.
When Vanderbilt died in 1877 he had a net worth equal to $185 billion at the time of his death in 1877, making him one of the wealthiest individuals in American history at that time.
Yet there are no inheritance millionaires in that family. As Anderson Cooper, a 6th-generation descendant of the Vanderbilt family said, during a guest appearance on Howard Stern’s radio show, that, “My mom’s made clear to me that there’s no trust fund.” The reason is simple: foolish investments, lavish spending, philanthropy, and dilution by his heirs took its toll.
Also, FWIW, that estate amount was so great, in 1877 dollars, that it was more than all the coinage and printed money the U.S. Treasury held in circulation at the time of his death.
And that’s how it goes. Time-and-time again.
Why are you on the dumb side then and not getting rich? buck up, Lot’s of dumb people have good jobs.
Your conclusion is what is lazy.
There are valid criticisms of capitalism.
It’s not all unicorns and rainbows.
Socialism is no unicorn or rainbow, socialism.is a turd in a cesspool.
yes it is. It’s perfect.
Private property owners like tyranny when they are the ones being tyrannical.
BAN FOR LIFE!
Just stay off my lawn
Having a tyrannical boss takes away all incentive to work.
I saw Ken Langone interviewed by Neal Cavuto. Langone is a billionaire. He was one of the founders of Home Depot. He told Cavuto that whenever he had to hire someone for a managerial position he would take them out for a formal dinner ina restaurant. He would watch how they treated a waiter or a waitress. And that told him everything he needed to know about that person.
Are you unable to look for a better job due to lameness?
Capitalists have a good thing going on with capitalism, so of course they want to perpetuate it, like Nazis wanted to perpetuate National Socialism, or the king and queen of France wanted to perpetuate the aristocracy, or slave owners wanted to perpetuate slavery.
You stupid commies would have NOTHING without capitalism with all its faults. Communism/marxism is ALL faults.
National as in National Public Radio? National as in National Abortion Rights Action League? As in NOW? As in National Trust? As in National Health Service?
Oh good, maybe you could explain how it’s greedy to want to keep what you worked hard for but not greedy to take what belongs to others.
It’s not what I learned in kindergarten.
You can mention a few exceptions, but you are still left with the overwhelming rule.
The Constitution limits the “dictatorship of the majority” or mob rule through these structures:
The Senate: Equal state representation protects small states from populous ones.
Electoral College: Prevents a few densely populated cities from deciding the presidency.
Independent Judiciary: Lifetime judge appointments isolate courts from public passion.
Bicameralism: Requires two separate legislative bodies to agree, slowing down rash laws.
Bill of Rights: Sets permanent limits on what a majority can vote away.
Supermajorities: Amending the Constitution requires massive consensus, not a 51% vote.
Separation of Powers: Divides control so no single group easily seizes total power.
REGARDING ABOVE:
“Electoral College: Prevents a few densely populated cities from deciding the presidency”.
…………………………………..
This statement has no bearing on reality. 75% of America lives in the 20 most populous states. And those 20 most populous are just as likely to lean conservative as liberal. In fact 2 of the 3 most populous states are Texas and Florida; a fact that Bernie Bros aren’t aware of.
Don’t believe the idiots who claim New York and California would dominate without the electoral college. People making that claim have never looked at population stats.
The Electoral College also prevents national offices from being subject to voter fraud in one or two states. Many states already are governed by means of voter fraud in the big cities. The integrity of our elections is unfalsifiable and hence wide open to fraud and manipulation. Without honest elections, our claim to be a democracy is wide open to challenge. The Electoral College is at best a stop-gap measure against totalitarian domination by our elites.
NONE of the most populous cities are conservative – FEW of the 200 largest cities are conservative.
But many states containing large left ing nut cities are conservative.
If I was running for president and there was no electoral college. I would promise the ten most populous states everything under the sun and tell the rest go pound sand.
Without the EC no candidate would campaign outside of a handful of states and cities and all federal policies would be about that is best for big cities.
1. The Cities Aren’t Big Enough The Math: The U.S. Census Bureau reveals that the top 100 most populous American cities combined make up only about 19.6% of the total U.S. population. The Reality: Even if a single presidential candidate won 100% of the vote in the 100 biggest cities in America (from New York down to Baton Rouge), they would still have less than one-fifth of the votes needed to win a national popular vote. The Spread: Over 60% of Americans live in suburbs, rural towns, or small cities with fewer than 225,000 residents. America is fundamentally a suburban and decentralized country.
2. Big Cities and States Aren’t Monoliths The Math: No city or state votes 100% for one party. In 2020, Donald Trump received over 5.4 million votes in California—more raw conservative votes than he received in Texas or Florida. Conversely, Joe Biden received over 5.2 million votes in Texas. The Reality: In a national popular vote, those 5.4 million California conservatives and 5.2 million Texas liberals would suddenly matter. Under the current Electoral College “winner-take-all” system, their votes are entirely erased and discarded at the state level.
3. The Top States lean Red, Blue, and PurpleThe Math: As you noted, the top three most populous states are California, Texas, and Florida. The rest of the top ten includes heavily conservative states (Ohio, Georgia), deeply liberal states (New York, Illinois), and highly competitive swing states (Pennsylvania, North Carolina). The Reality: The massive population centers are not concentrated in one partisan region. A national popular vote would force candidates to campaign for individual voters across all 50 states, rather than treating states like uniform blocks.
The idea that “New York and LA would decide the election” assumes that everyone in those cities votes exactly the same way, and that those cities hold a majority of the population. Neither assumption is true. The Electoral College doesn’t stop “big cities” from running the country; instead, it forces candidates to completely ignore millions of voters in non-swing states—both rural and urban alike.
GREAT REMINDER!!!
Thank you!!
Don’t forget: A majority of California voters went to the polls and voted TWICE that “only marriage between a man and a woman will ever be valid or recognized in California.” A gay federal judge held it violated the US Constitution. And Kamala Harris refused to defend the voice of the voter in court.
The Supreme Court determined that the group that did appeal lacked standing. So the gay judge’s judgment stood.
So what do ppl think about majority rule now?
The singular American failure is the judicial branch, with emphasis on the Supreme Court.
Start with the absolute unqualified right to private property, which has not been supported by the Supreme Court but undermined and nullified by that majestic body.
All that text to say absolutely nothing. It’s convenient you never actually define what policies are being pushed for. It’s not the lefts fault that anytime they suggest government run healthcare the right screams socialism.
The fact is most markets are better served by capitalism true, but not all markets are the same. Fire fighting and policing are all government run and centrally organized for good reason. Just because capitalism works well for stores doesn’t mean government run fire departments are a terrible idea. There entire premise of this article is that socialist policies in these countries which do in fact work, don’t count because they have capitalism elsewhere. That on its face is extremely dumb.
If this blog is really about opposing tyranny, you would also oppose the tyranny the comes from business owners and managers. The tyranny that comes from capitalists can be just as bad as the tyranny that comes from the government. Just ask Bob Cratchit.
What do you oppose about capitalists? That they spend inordinate amounts of time building a business? That they risk their own capital? That they innovative and come up with new ideas? That is they are successful they hire others, employ them and pay them wages? That they meet the needs of their customers?
Are you aware of all the laws a business operates under? Of all the different taxes a business pays?
Socialism does non of those things. Socialism takes away all incentive to work.
Or are you just lazy, without ideas or just jealous some one is more successful than you?
Bob Cratchit is a fictional character.
Everyone in the US is free to walk away from any job they do not like – the 13th amendment ended slavery
There is no Tryanny that comes from business owners.
They are free to run their businesses as they please and if you are not happy with how they do that and can not persuade them to change – you are free to find work elsewhere or start your own business.
Businesses have a natural tendency to enslave people and not pay them.
They would do this if they could.
The only reason they don’t now is because there are laws against it.
No that is totalitarianism where all socialism and communism eventually end up. Labor and reeducation camps. Not only do they steal the labor they work the worker to death or starve them in subhuman living conditions. Stalin’s labor camps ‘laogai’. PolPos S-21 camps. North Korea’s Kwan-li-so.
Why do you think every country in the world has people trying to get to the US? Russia I overthrew the USSR and socialism. China has abandoned communism for quasi capitalism to try and raise their people not of poverty. Socialism/communism has never worked and never will. See Cuba. See Venezuela. See Nicaragua.
Before the fall of the Soviet Union, the average citizen had a saying. They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work.
“Businesses have a natural tendency to enslave people and not pay them.”
Debateable – slavery has never truly proved on the whole profitable.
The north destroyed the south in the civil war – BECAUSE slavery left th south economically weak
But even if your claim was true – as you not – slavery is illegal.
Any use of FORCE aside from elf defense is illegal.
What a business would do in an alternate universe is irrelevant
Regardless in a free market the ONLY way a business can use force is by renting it from government
Which they Will do – as will anyone else who is able to.
That is a Government problem not a business problem
Slaves were valuable property that had to be fed, clothed, and housed 24/7/365.
Compare and contrast the life of a white immigrant in Upton Sinclair’s The Jungle, where employers felt ni such obligation
This trend towards socialism is easy to explain. The MAGA movement made ignorance acceptable. So the Bernie Bros glance off each other and say, “Let’s get even stupider”.
And that’s what this ‘progressive’ socialist movement is about. It’s MAGA in reverse; that same plunge into the vast unknown where destruction is viewed as progress.
MAGA is imperfect – but it is neither stupid nor ignorant and it is superior to what preceded it, and certainly to any form of socialism – including socialism lite
The new socialist always say, this time it will be different.
Au contraire, MAGA is pretty stupid and gullible. The day Trump dies MAGA will die with him. The only reason MAGA exists is because of Trump. Just like the Tea Party. It died the moment the conservative majority that encouraged it whimpered out.
Democratic socialists are becoming an attractive option not because they are the best idea, but as a punishment for MAGAs stupidity and incompetence.
KUDOS to Jonathan Turley for the argument that the Scandinavian economic system is an enviable one has been denounced / neutralized quite well.
These are the exceptions to the rule, not the rule.
The rule far exceeds the exceptions.
Winston Churchill said it best. “”The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery”.
LCD:
Slavery vs. Freedom
Communism vs. Capitalism
Free people are free to share as is appropriate and sensible.
If workers are expected to have a work ethic, then why can’t managers be expected to have a management ethic?
The management ethic is to dispose of the underperforming deadwood or so-called “workers” without a work ethic, you know, idiots like you.
Thank you for proving my point!
Your point is that you want Other People’s Money, Karl. We already know that. Get a job, you freak.
Workers can have whatever ethic they want.
What they can not expect is to be paid more than the value they produce.
Nor can they expect to have control of what others do with businesses and capital that is theirs
If you do not like your boss – you are free to go elsewhere or start your own business.
Life requires all of us to FREELY choose things we do not like – in order to get things we want.
And we are each free to make those choices as we please and live with the consequences.