Vice President Dick Cheney continued his campaign to get the nation to embrace torture this weekend. He appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation. He insisted that they were “not in the torture business” despite previously admitting to using waterboarding, a well-known torture technique. It may be that he believed that this was more of a passion or calling than a business enterprise. I discussed the interview on this segment of Countdown.
Cheney adopted the image of a virtual Don Quixote of torture: “If I don’t speak out, then where do we find ourselves? … Then the critics have free run, and there isn’t anybody there on the other side to tell the truth.” The truth, of course, is pretty bizarre in the mind of Dick Cheney.
In perhaps the greatest argument for Obama and Holder to stop protecting Cheney and others from investigation, Cheney reaffirmed that he is proud of the torture program: “No regrets,. I think it was absolutely the right thing to do. I’m convinced … that we saved thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives . . . 20 or 30 years from now, you’ll be able to look back on this and say this is one of the great success stories of American intelligence.”
I expect that 20 or 30 years from now, people will ask how a man who helped design this nation’s first torture program would be allowed to walk around freely — giving interviews on the merits of war crimes.
Cheney is continuing the effort to shape the debate on whether torture was successful. The media is helping with this effort by pursuing the issue on whether a war crime was nonetheless productive. Cheney again called for the release of memos and insisted that “I personally know of, written by the CIA, that lay out the successes of those policies and point out in considerable detail all of — all that we were able to achieve by virtue of those policies.” Again, he ignores (like most reporters covering the story) that it remains a war crime regardless of how useful it might prove for a country.
Notably, while Majority Leader Harry Reid insists that the fact are still not clear on torture despite the confirmation of Bush officials of waterboarding and the admission by many that it was torture, Cheney again showed that there was no question on the core facts on who is responsible for the orders: “I certainly, yes, have every reason to believe [President Bush] knew — he knew a great deal about the program. He basically authorized it. I mean, this was a presidential-level decision. And the decision went to the president. He signed off on it.”
I see this as Cheney realizing that he is in danger of prosecution and trying to head things off at the pass. The more he talks the better things will get for our side. He probably has worse approval ratings at this point than Brittany Spears.
What ever happened to his FOIA policy “don’t ask,don’t tell” which he confused with military policy?
That is the Ferengi way as expressed in the Rules of Acquisition. The 11th Rule of Acquisition is “me like, me take”:
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/05/life-in-ferengi-home-world.html
The link below says: “The White House has decided to declassify and release a classified 2004 CIA report about the torture program that is reported to have found NO PROOF that torture foiled any terror plots on American soil — directly contradicting Cheney’s claims.” (my emphasis)
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/white-house-to-declassify-holy-grail-torture-report-that-could-undercut-cheney/
This is interesting to say the least. Since when in history have you ever heard of a VP making decisions such as this. His calls come a little to late to impress the American Public.
They had to Intel so to speak. I read somewhere on this site about America and Pearl Harbor and that we were not prepared. I believe that the American people trusting our governments word about it being a surprise attack rings hollow. They knew something wa brewing and that is why the oldest of ship were left in port. They somehow or another had over 100 ships that left Pearl on Thursday for maneuvers.
The Towers were unfortunate as well. They knew that we were at risk of attack. I don’t think that they cared as somebody wanted to run the oil business of Iraq. Do I believe that some people would lie to get their way, Yes.
Cheney should be indicted as the War Monger as he is. Nothing more, nothing less. I think that it should be tried over seas as I do not believe that the American people would get a fair showing of his acts.
Do I want our people to suffer further repercussions because of Cheneys’ selfish actions No. I do not believe that Bush had a clue as to what was really going on. I think he was a mere puppet for Dick to control.
I would relish the opportunity to stick a dirty, smelly, gym locker sock in that man’s mouth–virtually speaking, of course.
John.P:
I am adding a little more to that info you put oou there for us.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/09/AR2009050902489.html?hpid=moreheadlines
…vindicate…truth…intelligence…success…virtue…
The number agreeing with him on the meaning of those words dwindles with each new Cheney utterance.
Keep talking, Mr. Former Vice President.
We can either assist Mr. Cheney in his attempts at making the ‘non-business torture’ defense or kindly stay out of the way.
p.s. mespo, I’m makin’ carmel corn with peanuts
- you still want the jujubes?
I agree with Mike S. that Mr. Cheney, who has spoken more words in the past month than he did in the eight previous years, is making a desperate effort to portray himself as an American patriot. I can think of no groups other than the Hannity and Limbaugh crowds who will buy it. Perhaps the White House is playing its own version of water torture, periodically releasing a selected memo that contradicts the most recent Cheney assertion. We should encourage him to continue his public appearances. After all, he is convinced that he is smarter than all of the government’s lawyers. Perhaps he’ll eventually have a Jack Nicholson moment and dismissively remind us that we can’t handle the truth.
Mike Appleton,
Cheney’s speaking out is poisoning any potential trial jury pool—if that would even apply in any potential case against him—however, can all of his statements be used against him or do they fall within the inadmissibility rules regarding hearsay evidence?
Nothing else makes any sense, unless he is just a brazen and corrupt fool.
Thanks.
FFLEO, whatever Mr. Cheney says is admissible, unless it’s said in private under one of the privileges (husband-wife, attorney-client, patient-psychotherapist, etc.). His speaking publicly represents a calculated decision that the government has neither the political will nor the moral courage to go after him.
Mike Appleton,
Thank you for your prompt reply. I guess an invocation of his 5th Amendment rights might help him, at some point.
I know my questions seem self-evident; however, I simply have never seen such a high-ranking public official acting so brazenly and with such assumed impunity. This is a terrible example for young, impressionable people in our country and an excellent propaganda-recruiting tool for others.
Mikes A and S,
I have to wonder if Cheney doesn’t just honestly believe that he’s right and that he didn’t break any laws.
Patty,
Get out of the way of what?
Other similarly prescient historic predictions:
“The Titanic will be an unsinkable ship”
–Harland & Wolff Shipyard
“Dewey Defeats Truman”
–Chicago Tribune
“This `telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a practical form of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.”
- Western Union internal memo, 1878
“Television won’t be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night.”
- Darryl F. Zanuck, head of 20th Century-Fox, 1946.
“Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible.”
- Lord Kelvin (1824-1907), ca. 1895, British mathematician and physicist
“There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home.”
- Kenneth Olsen, president and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.
Predictions are worthless!
‘…He insisted that they were “not in the torture business” despite previously admitting to using waterboarding, a well-known torture technique. It may be that he believed that this was more of a passion or calling than a business enterprise…’
*****
Patty,
Get out of the way of what?
—–
Gyges,
We can support ‘the effort’ by standing aside while he finishes the job of shooting himself in the foot ‘all by his Onesies’.
M72 stated:
Predictions are worthless!
________________
Even those predictions emanating from the astute, learned attorneys/lawyers within this blawg?
Tell me it aint sO, mespO…
“I expect that 20 or 30 years from now, people will ask how a man who helped design this nation’s first torture program would be allowed to walk around freely — giving interviews on the merits of war crimes.” JT
Mike A. supplied the answer.
We’re just waiting for the the Col. Jessep moment.
Who plays the role of Special Prosecutor?
Go CHENEY… please continue to shooting your mouth off!
So Cheney’s trying to fluff-up some make-believe jury pool and further spin public opinion? Why does he even bother? No one but a few retards from Abu Graib will ever be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, W. is listening to FogHat and building model airplanes in his garage. Sure, from time to time he’ll take a break to watch Barney lick himself,but that’s really the most disturbing part of his life from now on.
No one will ever pay the piper on this one. I used to give my wife crap for saying she’d never let our kids go in the service. I don’t anymore. I have to assume they’ll be sodomized if captured. Thanks Dick. Thanks President Obama.
Cheney and Obama are playing bad cop/good cop. Cheney is free to claim: they never tortured, if they did torture it was a good thing to do, and they never tortured. By now if Obama or Holder planned prosecutions they would have done so. Holder could have started the investigation and Obama could offer pardons or let the chips fall where they may. Meanwhile Obama claims he’s the good guy. He doesn’t believe in torture.
If that were true he would have put an end to torture in Gitmo, stopped renditions to Bagram and other black sites, and insisted on the right of habeas corpus for all our detainees. He would not have argued in the 4th circut that all former officials in the bush administration should be given immunity from prosecution for torture of our detainees. He would have given the evidence requested by Binaym Mohamed in his trial against torture in the UK. He would have told Holder appoint a special prosecutor. He has done none of these things except to argue in favor of immunity for bushco. He and Cheney simply act as each other’s protector. Cheney says anything he wants with no consequences. Obama gets to look good by saying he repudiates Cheney while doing nothing to really repudiate either the man or his actions.
Torture is just one scene of the movie which, it seems, is missed for it’s other parts and whole.
Considering the U.S. became a police state in 2001, meeting most if not all of the criteria for dictatorship, including deep, uniform deception and illegal wiretap beginning only a month or two after the coup, I find it unbelievable that Premier Cheney continues serving up Neo Con Reality like it was legitimate. Only in a Leninist-Straussian reality could such outrageous ideology survive the sniff test. Yet, there it is.
Oh, I get it: Cheney wants to say hello to the jury pool and Fox’s market share, while we the people find reconciliation. Is that it?
I thought Cheney’s eight year rule and dream of a living, functioning PNAC at the expense of lost liberty, justice, and equality were supposed to have come to an end in November. Yet, there he is, making believe his murderous protections racket somehow had a noble cause.
I want to see Cheney in a court of law, delivered there by any means, and tried, not just for torture, but for subversion, treason, murder, fraudulent preemption, theft, and more.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/preemption.html
Cheney is spewing his crap not because he truly believes in what they did. He is saying it because he is worried that he just may have to answer to a higher authority, a Federal Court or a court in Spain. All his talk only provides additional evidence that he knowingly authorized and ordered the torture of detainees. The only thing standing in the way of Cheney and the the rest of the torture cabal is the political will needed to proceed.
Former Federal LEO:
Predictions are worthless!
________________
Even those predictions emanating from the astute, learned attorneys/lawyers within this blawg?
Tell me it aint sO, mespO…
****************
Alas it is true.
Interesting article about Ted Sorensen, Esq., JFK’s speechwriter, excoriating lawyers for standing idly by while the Constitution burned under Bush:
Sorensen says lawyers too silent on torture
By DON WALTON / Lincoln Journal Star
Too many American lawyers remained silent while the United States conducted illegal torture and the Constitution was violated by disregard for the rule of law, Ted Sorensen told law graduates Saturday.
In a commencement address at the University of Nebraska College of Law, his alma mater, Sorensen urged the graduates to act with courage and embrace integrity in their professional pursuits.
“Most of you as new lawyers will soon find it easy to make a buck but find it hard to make a difference,” he said, according to an advance copy of the speech obtained by the Journal Star.
Sorensen, who served as President John F. Kennedy’s speechwriter and chief adviser, said illegal tactics promoted to defend the country actually weakened U.S. national security.
“Yes, torture gets results,” he said.
“It has resulted in easier, swifter, more successful recruitment for terrorist organizations among the millions of young Islamic fanatics who are willing to use the one weapon against which an open society such as ours has no sure defense — suicide bombing.
“It also resulted in a sharp decline in America’s standing among allies who might otherwise have provided intelligence and other forms of help.
“It has cost us the respect of other countries that we enjoyed, which protected us against attacks from abroad.”
Sorensen, who turned 81 on Friday, grew up in Lincoln and graduated from the College of Law in 1951.
“Intellectually and morally dishonest lawyers (in the Department of Justice) disgraced not only their country but their profession” in claiming that waterboarding and other forms of torture were legal, he said.
“In a country based on the rule of law, in which no man is above the law, whatever his rank or title, no man can undertake, authorize or immunize unlawful conduct,” Sorensen said.
“Our current wonderful president cannot promise the CIA practitioners of torture that they will not be prosecuted,” he said.
“With all those now exposed of complicity in torture pointing fingers of blame at each other,” Sorensen said, “it is clear that the guilty include political ideologues, cowardly bureaucrats and inexperienced psychologists, all of whom plead ignorance of the law.
“But what about the lawyers?” he asked.
America’s best military leaders do not support torture because they know it will lead to its use against U.S. military personnel, Sorensen said.
“They know that the moral authority of the United States, its traditional ability to occupy the moral high ground in an international conflict, is an important part of our security,” he said.
“More important than the worthless statements extracted from torture’s victims who will cry out anything to halt it.”
Shame doesn’t quite cover it.
Great article Mespo! So true. I think Mr. Sorensen needs to read Prof. Turley’s blog more often to witness attorneys who have been crying wolf on the torture issue for a long time.
rafflaw:
We’re getting the word out. We are after all the closest thing there is to the Algonquin Round Table. I wanna be Harpo!
I think Cheney’s too arrogant to contemplate tactics aimed at addressing any potential criminal prosecution. He may just be a sad, lonely irrelevant old man who doesn’t understand that his opinions (warped or not) no longer carry any weight, merit or interest with anybody at all. Unfortunately, the MSM didn’t get that memo.
I post this link,for Eugene and Liz Cheney had a little showdown this morning on,Morning Joe.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/11/AR2009051102670.html
This is the new strategy? To prove that without torture there can be no democracy and freedom in the world?
http://blogdredd.blogspot.com/2009/05/gop-strategy-to-prove-torture-works.html
Professor Turley was great on Keith Olbermann last night.
Dredd,
Good summation of the new world order and I agree, JT did a great job cutting through the many surrealistic “arguments” going viral at this time! Glenn Greenwald’s update on how the US press treats the journalists the US imprisons and kills is a study in US surrealism as well.
Here is direct evidence that Obama is protecting Cheney and himself from accountability for torture by the US.
“Obama administration threatens Britain to keep torture evidence concealed
Ever since he was released from Guantanamo in February after six years of due-process-less detention and brutal torture, Binyam Mohamed has been attempting to obtain justice for what was done to him. But his torturers have been continuously protected, and Mohamed’s quest for a day in court repeatedly thwarted, by one individual: Barack Obama. Today, there is new and graphic evidence of just how far the Obama administration is going to prevent evidence of the Bush administration’s torture program from becoming public.”
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/
Jill,
Well you and Glenn convinced me. Let’s cut to the chase and impeach him now. That’s the ticket.
Mike S.,
roflmao
Jill,
Are you and/or constitutional lawyer Greenwald conspiring to bring impeachment hearings against Mr. Obama? And if so, how did you, just a no-count, influence Mr. Greenwald?
Hopefully, vindication in this case means PROSECUTION !
No need to impeach Obama, he was and is a War Criminal. He should not have been on the ballot and could be arrested at any time… the sooner the better. He is not the president, he is a criminal, elected fraudulently.
To: State of Texas and other states
My name is Dr. Orly Taitz, I am an attorney representing over 130 members of the US military, 10 state representatives, ambassador Keyes and other citizens, questioning legitimacy of Mr. Barack Hussein Obama aka Barry Soetoro for presidency. Among them are following citizens of the State of Texas:
LTC Chetwin Hurd
SGNT Morgan Samuel Ward
Capt. Ralph H. Jenkins
SGNT Jeffrey Wayne Rosner
LCDR Jeff Graham Winthrope
Mr. Richard D. Sanders
Mrs. Jody Brockhausen
While doing research of this case, I’ve uncovered a number of instances of suspected illegal and criminal activity by Mr. Obama and his supporters. As an officer of the court I have a solemn duty to report such activity to the law enforcement and demand immediate investigation, subpoena of the records and prosecution to the full extend of the law.
Mr. Obama has availed himself to the jurisdiction of the state of Texas as he put his name as a candidate for president on the ballot here and additionally he came and campaigned here.
Please see attached reports, that should help in your investigation. Reports contain a computerized image of Certification of life birth for Mr. Obama and Certification of Selective Service and statements from experts, showing those documents to exhibit numerous signs of forgery.
It is my understanding that in the State of Texas forgery is a class C felony that carries up to 10 years in the state penitentiary. On two counts of forgery Mr. Obama might be facing up to 20 years in jail in the state of Texas alone, since those counts run consecutively. Since Mr. Obama has availed himself to the jurisdiction of 50 states with similar statutes, he might be facing 1,000 years in state penitentiaries around the country on forgery charges alone. Additionally, there are numerous counts of suspected fraud, voter fraud, mail fraud, wire fraud, corruption of a public official, intimidation, interference with the system of justice, social security fraud, tax fraud, perjury and other related crimes. As the National Security is at stake, I would request your immediate attention to this matter and expedient report with a report number of the suspected criminal activity and subpoena of Mr. Obama’s vital records, such as his original vault long version birth certificate in Hawaii, passports from Indonesia and Kenya, immigration records, certification of selective service, school registration from Occidental College, Harvard university and Columbia University.
I am attaching a 164 page dossier of suspected illegal activity. You can find more documents for download on my blog http://www.OrlyTaitzEsq.com
Sincerely,
Dr. Orly Taitz Esq
26302 La Paz ste 211
Mission Viejo Ca 92691
29839 S. Margarita Pkwy
Rancho Santa Margarita Ca 92688
ph. w- 949-586-8110 c- 949-683-5411
fax 949-586-2082
BVM, I’ve already seen the Orly Taitz chain letter a half dozen times. Remember, if you don’t forward it to at least 10 people in the next 15 minutes, all of your hair will fall out by tomorrow morning.
I was just posting it for the benefit of those who haven’t seen it.
My hair is gone already.. OnionHead
Who is more erudite than Turley? Who has his finger on the pulse of the body politic? Xenu? No, THE BODY.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9yfMdNC6cQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejahDWoYk2A&feature=related
BVM,
I take it all back about you. There is no one who underlines the points that I’m making about the President than you and you do it with such a complete lack of awareness. Thank you.
Abuse of detainees continues in Gitmo: (also see the AP and Al Jazeera)
Yemen Guantanamo detainee attempts to kill himself
By Nasser Arrabyee, Correspondent
Published: May 11, 2009, 16:04
Sana’a: A Yemeni Guantanamo detainee attempted to kill himself while in a meeting with his American lawyer in detention, lawyers said Monday.
“Adnan Farhan Abdul Latif attempted to commit suicide during my meeting with him this morning,” his lawyer David Remes told Gulf News from Guantanamo.
The meeting between Remes and his client Abdul Latif took place on Sunday, May 10.
“Without our noticing, he chipped off a piece of the stiff veneer on the underside of our conference table and used it to saw into a vein in his left wrist.”
“As he sawed, he drained his blood into a plastic container and, shortly before it was time for me to leave; he hurled the blood at me from the container.”
Click Here!
“It must have been a good deal of blood because I was drenched from the top of my head to my knees, including my face and arms, and I took a good splash in my right eye,” Remes added.
Remes, who represents 16 of the nearly 100 Yemenis remaining there, called upon both governments of Yemen and US to return Abdul Latif to his family.
Abdul Latif is being held in the Psychiatric Ward. The tube-feeding has brought his weight up to 120 pounds. He is now being force-fed in bed, not in a “restraint chair”, said Remes.
“For humanitarian reasons, I implore the US and Yemen to arrange for Adnan’s immediate return to Yemen. His family understands that he needs treatment, and they are standing ready to help him,” he said.
“Adnan is a very sick man, physically and psychologically. He should be receiving treatment. The only ‘treatment’ he is receiving from the US, however, is to keep him subdued – by drugs if possible, and by force if necessary – so he can continue to be held as a captive without causing disturbance. This is inhumane by any standard.”
Remes, the Legal Director of the Appeal for Justice, a Human Rights and Civil Liberties Litigation Firm, also said he would be asking the court this week to allow him and his colleague lawyers to send an independent physician and psychiatrist to Guantanamo to examine, Abdul Latif.
Abdul Latif has been languishing in the detention for about seven years.” (from Gulf News)
‘Abuse of detainees continues in Gitmo’…
—–
Prove it.
Jill 1, May 12, 2009 at 5:50 pm
FFLEO,
I just found this link. Hope you like it.
“Republicans and Independents for Impeaching Bush and Cheney
not an option, a duty”
===
Former Federal LEO 1, May 12, 2009 at 7:42 pm
Thank you for the link, Jill. I will check the information in more detail later.
===
FFLEO
Please, do share… ;p
We’d love to hear it!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/12/jesse-ventura-coleman-a-h_n_202629.html
===============================
CHUCK SCHUMER SUPPORTS TORTURE
===============================
When is he going to come out of the closet and repeat his words.
To have accountability or not to have accountability,
That is the question:
Whether tis nobler in the mind to just look forward
And forget the torture and lawlessness of the Bush Administration,
Or, to take up the rule of law, and prosecute them.
And by investigation and prosecution, end them.
Accountability or not—
No more—and by that we say, stop this.
This heartache and thousand felonious shocks
That Bush suffered the country with his legacy.
Tis accountability, devoutly to be wished.
Accountability or not—
Investigation and prosecution. Ay, there’s the rub,
For with that sunshine of facts what crimes may come
When we have revealed the truth of the Neocons
Must give us pause. There’s the respect
For the rule of law that makes us all equal.
For who would spurn the Constitution and its laws,
The cronies backdoor, the corporations outsourcing,
The pangs of Darth Vader, Gonzales’ no recall,
The insolence of Bush, the spurns
That merited the cries of Impeachment!
Then we learned the house and senate
Left our table bare.
How can these representatives say,
To those that grunt and sweat under a weary life,
That the dread of something other than Bush,
And history will prove him a great visionary,
It puzzles the will.
And makes us bear this shame upon our country,
That will last for eternity.
Will investigation make cowards of us all,
Will prosecution derive a resolution
Of the administration that had no law.
With this regard the rule of law
Must not lose the name of action.