Palestinian Authority Newspaper: Freemasons Behind Sept. 11 Attacks

-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger

800px-Flag_of_PalestineAl-Hayat al-Jadida, the official daily newspaper of the Palestinian Authority, published an Op-ed by Hassan Ouda Abu Zaher. The Op-ed states: “to the lie about Al-Qaeda and the Sept. 11 events, which asserted that Muslim terrorists committed it, and that it was not an internal American action by the Freemasons.” While there are many conspiracy theories about the Sept. 11 attacks, there are usually relegated to fringe websites. Unsurprisingly, no evidence is presented to support such a fanciful claim.

This is Islamic lunacy and should be opposed by all rational human beings. That this lunacy is supported by the Palestinian Authority confirms a World Public Opinion poll that showed that 46% of Palestinians believe that the U.S. government or Israel was behind the attacks.

This degree of credulousness is not unexpected when people are raised from infancy to believe nonsense, such as Muhammad ascending to heaven on a winged horse. Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer wrote on this subject in the 19th century:

If, in early childhood, certain fundamental views and doctrines are paraded with unusual solemnity, and an air of the greatest earnestness never before visible in anything else; if, at the same time, the possibility of a doubt about them be completely passed over, or touched upon only to indicate that doubt is the first step to eternal perdition, the resulting impression will be so deep that, as a rule, that is, in almost every case, doubt about them will be almost as impossible as doubt about one’s own existence.

A Sophisticated Islamic Theologian™ might assert that no true Muslim would have committed the attacks on Sept. 11, in contradiction to the available evidence, including the admission by al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. However, this would be an example of the No True Scotsman logical fallacy where “an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing.”

James Madison wrote of the importance of a “perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters” in his letter to Edward Livingston in 1822. While Madison’s “perfect separation” is under constant attack, we need not look far to see the effect of ignoring his wisdom.

H/T: Jerry Coyne.

100 thoughts on “Palestinian Authority Newspaper: Freemasons Behind Sept. 11 Attacks

  1. Do you consider any website that is not MSM to be a ”fringe” website? Do you consider a huge group of architects and engineers to be a fringe group? ae911truth.org If you actually LOOK at evidence instead of just dismissing it with tunnel vision, you will see all KINDS of proof!

    and are you attacking all religions here? ”This degree of credulousness is not unexpected when people are raised from infancy to believe nonsense, such as Muhammad ascending to heaven on a winged horse.” Is this any more ridiculous than Elijah ascending to heaven in a chariot (it WAS Elijah, right? or am I misremember that). Or Jesus arising from the dead? There are an AWFUL lot of people who believe these things, and they are not ”fringe.”

    To me, FRINGE is believing what you’re told to believe by a government that hands you a story totally full of holes. Now THAT is fringe! Just ask architects and engineers!

  2. David: This degree of credulousness is not unexpected when people are raised from infancy to believe nonsense, such as Muhammad ascending to heaven on a winged horse.

    As opposed to Americans, 95% of whom are raised from infancy to believe that Christ walked on water, raised the dead, and turned water into wine and multiplied the fishes, that Moses split the Red Sea, that biblical characters had conversations with their talking donkeys.

    I think before you attribute their belief to their religion, you should ask why the equally ridiculous predominant religion of the USA has not produced the same level of credulousness. Or perhaps it has.

  3. Some mainstream news in the U.S. set forth a theory supported by U.S. Senators, 911 Commission members, and CIA that Saudi Arabia was directly involved.

    Of the 19 hijackers, 15 were said to be Saudi Arabians.

    Watch the Chris Matthews and Joe Scarborough Shows on video in mainstream TV time interviewing officials (Fighting Terrorism For 200 Years – 3).

    Everybody has a rap, but the evidence is more convincing to a mind that knows the government did not and still does not want to go after Saudi Arabia.

    Steve Rattner says on the Morning Joe video, that the truth about this is something we really do not want to know.

  4. They believe in their patently ridiculous propaganda BS for the same reason we believe in our patently ridiculous propaganda BS; because they just want to get on with their lives believing they are the good guys.

  5. “That this lunacy is supported by the Palestinian Authority indicates that Palestinians believe these claims.”

    Obviously “Palestinians” believe these claims because, apparently, more than one does. But the sentence structure makes it sound like you’re saying “all” Palestinians believe these things, which is demonstrably false by finding just one Palestinian who doesn’t.

    If you’re going to chide people for logical fallacies and not having evidence for their claims, I would think you would avoid the composition fallacy, and provide some evidence for exactly what % of Palestinians believe the Freemasons perpetrated the 9-11 attacks.

  6. dredd

    i believe it was 1 egyptian (caught), 16 saudis, 2 uae’s, and 1 lebanese

    and a partridge in a pear tree.

    you’ve opened the gates Nal, bring on the truthers.

  7. pete9999 1, March 23, 2013 at 10:36 am

    dredd

    i believe it was 1 egyptian (caught), 16 saudis, 2 uae’s, and 1 lebanese

    and a partridge in a pear tree.

    you’ve opened the gates Nal, bring on the truthers.
    =========================================
    As usual, I was quoting officials (“15 Saudis”).

    Glenn Greenwald has a nice piece today which describes the stylistic propaganda currently in vogue in polite company in U.S. “here’s the way to talk in public” circles:

    One very common tactic for enforcing political orthodoxies is to malign the character, “style” and even mental health of those who challenge them. The most extreme version of this was an old Soviet favorite: to declare political dissidents mentally ill and put them in hospitals. In the US, those who take even the tiniest steps outside of political convention are instantly decreed “crazy”, as happened to the 2002 anti-war version of Howard Dean and the current iteration of Ron Paul (in most cases, what is actually “crazy” are the political orthodoxies this tactic seeks to shield from challenge).

    This method is applied with particular aggression to those who engage in any meaningful dissent against the society’s most powerful factions and their institutions.

    (Guardian, Greenwald). By now after a hundred years it is solidly implanted within the American cultural amygdala, and is as automatic as a transmission in a Buick.

  8. I have neighbors who are Freemasons and I dont trust em. They dont have dogs. They had a party the night after 9/11. There may be something to this.

  9. I gotta friend who is a dog living with a member of Bricklayers Local 101 and he says that the word Freemason is a contradiction in terms.

  10. Is Cheney a Freemason? Just wondering. Got you wondering? Someone needs to Google: Dickhead Cheney and Freemasons. My computer is down–except for this Dogalogue machine.

  11. This just in from DogGoogle.dog:

    There are two sects of Freemasonry known as the York Rite (that has “9” degrees of secrecy) and the Scottish Rite (which has “33” public degrees of secrecy). Masons are a very proud bunch and any of them will have no problem in telling you that most US presidents have been either 32 or 33 degree Freemasons. Bush I and II, and their cronies, Vice President Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Wolferwitz etc, are all 33rd degree Freemasons. The UK’s Tony Blair is a 33rd degree Freemason, as also is Vladimir Putin, Mikhail Gorbechev, Ariel Sharon, and the list goes on and on. John Howard is a Freemason; as is the illegally appointed Australian Governor General Major-General Philip Jeffery.
    Even NY Mayor Rudy Giuliani was knighted into the Masonic order by the Queen of England on Feb “13”th, 2002 for his role in 9-11.
    The incorporation of numbers and numerology is very important to both the freemasons but most especially to their Illuminati ‘overlords’.

    The most important and “magical” numbers are considered to be:
    3, 6, 7, 9, 11 (including multiples such as 22, 33 etc)
    13, 14 (2×7), 18 (3×6), 19, 21 (3×7), 27 (3x3x3), 28 (4×7) 39, 93 (666), 111. The most revered numbers of all being 9 & 11.

    Bearing these numbers in mind, the origin of Freemasonry goes back to “1111”AD where “9” European separatists declared themselves the “Knights Templar”. (This is why the numbers “9” & “11” are so important to them.)

  12. “A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. ” James Madison, June 29th. 1787, Debates in Federal Convention

  13. The Palestinian newspaper only needs to look to history for a lesson in how to disrupt this threat by secret societies, such as the Freemasons:

  14. Anyone w/ any intelligence knows the real truth is the Twin Tower collapse and the moon landing were both done w/ Hollywood special effects. So was the 1969 Mets World Series. Geez!

  15. nick spinelli 1, March 23, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    Anyone w/ any intelligence knows the real truth is the Twin Tower collapse and the moon landing were both done w/ Hollywood special effects. So was the 1969 Mets World Series. Geez!
    =================================
    Nick, the question is not how it was done, but who dunnit … it is a gumshoe thingy dood.

    The question is why those that did it in the main (Saudis) were not prosecuted, however, those who did not do it were (Iraqis).

    Got any clues as an intelligent gumshoe?

    Did you watch the Chris Matthews Show (Hardball) and the Joe Scarborough Show (Morning Joe) videos I linked to up-thread.

    No-one disputed that the Saudis were in it up to their necks, but everyone said we did not prosecute them because they have oil.

    Get over the Pavlovian reactionary trance and look at what was said.

    It is quite interesting.

  16. Did the Freemasons do it, or did the Saudi Arabians do it?

    Were the 15 Saudi Arabians named as hijackers by U.S. officials Freemasons?

    If the Saudi Government furnished those hijackers with funds and recruited them, does it matter if any of them were Freemasons or not?

    Isn’t it more important that they were terrorists?

  17. “Get over the Pavlovian reactionary trance and look at what was said. It is quite interesting.” -Dredd

    It is indeed. Thanks for referencing the Morning Joe clip, as well as posting the Greenwald excerpt, Dredd. Folks better pay attention. We have tyranny and trouble on the home front, but many find it easier to turn a blind eye.

    http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/14/10672374-new-questions-about-fbi-probe-of-saudis-post-911-exodus?lite

  18. As a registered architect with a structures background, I refer you to http://www.ae911truth.org – Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth – where it is rendered clear for nearly any sentient being with more than a few neurons to rub together that the towers (plus building 7) were brought down with controlled demolition.

    Until we, as a nation, are willing to expose and accept the truth behind the horrible lie that is 911, we cannot right our country socially, geopolitically or economically.

  19. Is the Chairman of The Senate Intelligence Committee a “truther” because he is mad at Bush II for covering up Saudi Government involvement:

    As the Senate Intelligence Committee chairman during the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks and the run-up to the Iraq war, Sen. Bob Graham tried to expose what he came to believe were national security coverups and manipulations by the Bush administration. But he discovered that it was hard to reveal a coverup playing by the rules. Much of the evidence the Florida Democrat needed to buttress his arguments was being locked away, he found, under the veil of politically motivated classification.

    Now, as he prepares to retire after 18 years in the Senate, the normally cautious former governor of Florida is unleashing himself in a new book, “Intelligence Matters: The CIA, the FBI, Saudi Arabia and the Failure of America’s War on Terror.”

    In his book, Graham asserts that the White House blocked investigations into Saudi Arabian government support for the 9/11 plot, in part because of the Bush family’s close ties to the Saudi royal family and wealthy Saudis like the bin Ladens. Behind the White House’s insistence on classifying 27 pages detailing the Saudi links in a report issued by a joint House-Senate intelligence panel co-chaired by Graham in 2002 lay the desire to hide the administration’s deficiencies and protect its Saudi allies, according to Graham.

    Graham’s allegations — supported by the Republican vice chairman of the House-Senate 9/11 investigation, Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, but not his co-chairman, Rep. Porter Goss, Bush’s nominee to become director of the CIA — are not new.

    (Sen. Graham: Bush Covered Up Saudi Involvement In 911, Salon). He would rather tell the truth than be a Liar … that is all (truther v liar).

    Take your pick.

    If what someone said up-thread is true, that Bush II is a Freemason, then the issue is not that a Freemason did it, the issue is that a Freemason ordered it covered up.

  20. Nal,

    The post you linked to in your post came to a conclusion about what the Palestinians said about Hitler — a conclusion that does not seem to logically follow.

    The Palestinian text was quoted as:

    Had Hitler won, Nazism would be an honor that people would be competing to belong to, and not a disgrace punishable by law.

    To which the author you linked to attributed this interpretation:

    Hitler was a good man, and it’s a shame that the Nazis lost.

    IMO, that is imagination, not proper interpretation.

    I recall that General Curtis LeMay and Robert McNamara both knew about that reality which the Palestinians were in reference to:

    Robert McNamara: I was on the island of Guam in his [General Curtis LeMays’] command in March 1945. In that single night, we burned to death one hundred thousand Japanese civilians in Tokyo. Men, women and children.

    Interviewer: Were you aware this was going to happen?

    Robert McNamara: Well, I was part of a mechanism that, in a sense, recommended it. [regarding his and Colonel Curtis LeMay’s involvement in the bombing of Japan during World War II] LeMay said if we lost the war that we would have all been prosecuted as war criminals. And I think he’s right. He … and I’d say I … were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side has lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?

    (On The Origin of The Bully Religion – 2). The true interpretation that LeMay, McNamara, and the Palestinian writing was in reference to was that the winners of a war always prosecute war crimes, not the losers.

    The writer you linked to did better on the other issues, except for the ad hominem demonization, and the insufficient “some of my friends are Palestinians” type apologetics.

    The better way to debate an issue like this is to find the flaws in the nexus between their assertion and their evidence.

    Calling such assertions “conspiracy theories” is unavailing because the official government theory is a conspiracy theory.

    Which is: 15 Saudi Arabians along with four others, conspired together to fly four aircraft into American buildings and kill people.

    That the government theory is a conspiracy theory does not ipso facto make it erroneous.

  21. Thanks, Nal,

    You really brought ’em out of the woodwork, today. The Palestinian/Freemason plot is so…pedestrian…compared to the sheer creative genius of our home-grown psychotic truthers.
    Don’t get me wrong. I’m cool with them, as long as they don’t have licenses to drive. A little extra tax money for custodial care (feeding tubes and diapers) is well-worth it.

    Why hasn’t a Sandy Hook conspiracy truther contributed anything, yet?
    Too early to be wearing the aluminum foil hats? I think the placement of the hat is crucial to activation.

  22. Perhaps it was not the “Freemasons,” but certainly it was more than just “Al-Qaeda,” and Osama Bin Laden. Look first at the family ties between Bush and Bin Laden. Then look at the CIA ties to the Mujahedeen, and the database Al Qaeda. Read first Brzezinski’s “The Grand Chessboard,” then PNAC’s “Rebuilding America’s Defenses.” Once you understand the Wolfowitz Doctrine (he, along with Scoter Libby, and Bill Kristol were members of the right wing think tank Project For the New American Century).
    In light of the fact that the JCOS were willing to kill Americans in order to provoke a war with Cuba (Operation Northwoods), one realizes that the Industrial-Military Complex Eisenhower warned us about is willing to go to any length to get its way.
    Everyone was onboard with their initial reaction to 911, because no one had investigated it as a crime scene, However, when Bush started talking about invading Iraq, I and a lot of other people, started to look into this “New Pearl Harbor.” A “False Flag” operation is NOT anathema to those who control our puppet government (the one we see with its smoke and mirrors).
    With the fall of Communism, GHW Bush talked about establishing “A New World Order,” on TV. He stated it would be based upon “Law & Order,” (I believe Hitler also used these phrases after the Reichstag Fire). He also assured us that “they” would succeed! Since 911, several others including British PM’s have also used the phrase “New World Order.”
    Think whatever you will, the fact is that our foreign policy has changed since 911, resulting in preemptive strikes, extraordinary rendition, torture, NDAA, Patriot Acts, summary execution by UAV and JSOC SS assassination teams. Now we are engaged in a never ending war on a new enemy “terrorists.” We now spend more on the Military-Industrial-Espionage-Congressional Complex than any other nation. Probable Cause, Due Process, Search & Seizure Regulations, (Habeas Corpus), and Posse Commitatus has been thrown out the window, along with the Constitution and Bill of Rights. We are militarizing our police force, and civil disobedience (right to assembly for a redress of grievance) is being crushed.

  23. Scott Supak (@ssupak),

    Good point. I’ve corrected the post.

    If anyone’s interested in the science, the NOVA episode, “Why the Towers Fell” is below:

  24. These ties to the Bushies, both Midland Bushie and Kenny Bunkport Bushie, are these Yale bow ties or Midland Texas string ties? Inquiring minds want to know.

  25. Why did Bldg 7 collapse at near freefall speed into its own footprint? It was not hit by aircraft and no high rise before or since 911 has ever collapsed symmetrically at near free fall speed into its own footprint! The 911 Commission never addressed this in its final report, or the money trail to Pakistan’s ISI. Most of the evidence from the greatest crime ever committed on American soil was removed and shipped overseas before an investigation could even be conducted. There never would have been a commission had it not been for the Jersey Widows. Vietnam Vet Max Cleland resigned from the 911 Commission in protest due to the White House stonewalling needed documents. It was all controlled from the White House, and like the Warren Commission, it was a cover-up rather than a real investigation. The fact is, that like the lies that led to the illegal invasion of the sovereign nation of Iraq (planned before 911), and the mainstream media continues to mind-numb us into oblivion. Instead of being the watchdog investigation government and corporate malfeasance, it has become nothing more than a propaganda ministry. It used computer generated graphics, and “talking head” Generals discussing new weapons technology being used against civilians, while never mentioning the civilian casualties. However, the greatest failure is with the Democrats who gave Bush all he asked for, and when they didn’t he simply took it with a Presidential Directive. We have lost the “checks-and-balances” of the three branches of government. The Judicial (Supreme Court) has shown its true colors with Citizens United, the Legislative with its revolving door and corporate lobbyists who stuff the incumbency with money for their campaign coffers, and the Executive which has been given dictatorial powers since the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, and now has a murder list that can target anyone (including Americans) anywhere in the world!

  26. I was laboring under the misapprehension, previously, that this discussion was not quite complete. I hadn’t noticed the use of the phrase,
    “WAKE UP,” which is the signature of those who want to put me to sleep.

    I was wrong. I has been used. The discussion now has all of the characteristics of a conversation between competing Napoleon Bonapartes.

    “Who’s the head bull goose loony, around here?”
    -One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest

  27. We do love our conspiracies. Back in the day Parliament had a grand conspiracy to “enslave” us … not quite sure to what religious belief I should ascribe that one.

    But the Free Masons and 9/11 … I guess it floats their boat.

  28. In addition to controlling the mainstream media, organized religion was used to help spearhead the Neo-Con takeover in2000. Moral Majority, and the Christian Coalition, helped put Bush into office (along with stopping a recount by the Supreme Court). When the government bailed out the criminals responsible for the Wall Street collapse, it indicated better than anything who really controls the government. The upper 1% like the Koch Bros. contributes to right wing Christian organizations, as well as the Tea Party, and ALEC. “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross,” Sinclair Lewis. Members of congress now wear a flag on their lapel to indicate how “patriotic” they are, while many never served in the military, much less in combat. Yet, they are willing to send the poor into harm’s way at the drop of a hat! Like Bush, many are “chicken hawks,” and the cabal of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, and Rice, should have been impeached! Unfortunately in 2006 when the Democrats had the chance, Nancy Pelosi stated on TV that they would not even investigate Bush for Impeachment! Yet more money was spent investigation Bill Clinton, than was spent investigating 911. With all the speeches made by Obama prior to winning in 2008, one can see that he has failed to turn back Bush polices as promised. Instead, he has re-enforced many repressive measures such as the NDAA, and summary executions. Obama’s Attorney General Erick Holder says that this is “Due Process,” when everyone knows that Due Process means a speedy trial by a jury of one’s peers (no military tribunal or indefinite confinement), right to know the charge, right to counsel, right to face and question one’s accusers, and the right to ALL evidence, even that classified for “national security.”

  29. Nal,

    I think you are either trying to do too much with this topic (what is the article’s purpose?), in a hurry-last minute research paper-as a few of my students have done in undergraduate-when I was teaching, or need to sober up before doing your homework.

    1. You state; “While there are many conspiracy theories about the Sept. 11 attacks, there are usually relegated to fringe websites.” You set yourself up into believing everything that our ‘precious government’ tells you, and you prevent yourself from learning from anyone else.

    2. You attack the religion of Islam (not a smart move).

    3. You make assertions about what Palestinians believe (if you watched the CNN special about the Palestinians, the Palestinian Authority, and Israel, then you definitely conclude that all three are not on the same page). Even President O’Bama concluded that the Paletinians need to have their own state. To which Israel responded: “Heavens NO!”

    4. You use a sexist (believes women were only created to obey man) and racist (believes that the white race is superior) philosopher (Arthur Schopenhauer) as a source.

    I know you can do a better job than this.

  30. I think “COG” (Continuity Of Government) has a lot to do the present state of affairs. Back during Iran/Contra, when USMC Colonel Ollie North was being questioned in Congress, North was asked about COG was asked as well as the suspension of the Constitution. North and his lawyer did not need to answer the question, even though he was part of the top secret panel that set up COG. This was back at a time when the Regan Administration usurped Congressional authority by supplying guns to the Nicaraguan “Contras.” On the same CIA aircraft coming back, drugs were being hauled into the U.S. by pilots like Barry Seal. The planes would stop off in Panama (our man Noriega), then on into Mena Arkansas (then governor Bill Clinton). The cocaine helped fuel the LA crack epidemic (as stated by former LA cop Michael Ruppert), and was brought out in Gary Webb’s Pulitzer Prize winning expose “Dark Alliance.” This should come as no surprise considering the fact that government sponsored scientists and doctors injected unsuspecting pregnant women with plutonium, and fed it to mentally retarded teenagers in their breakfast cereal (read Eileen Wellsome’s Pulitzer Prize winning expose “The Plutonium Files.” This is something we would have executed Josef Mengele for at Nuremburg. We did execute Japanese war criminals for water boarding U.S, POW’s after WWII, but now consider it to be “Enhanced Interrogation.” The government has created the largest domestic spy apparatus in world history, bigger than the KGB or GESTAPO. Domestic surveillance (wire taps without court order) has been commonplace, going back to Clinton.

  31. 9/11 was an inside job, with help from Saudi CIA asset/ Patsy bin Laden, the only democracy(sic) in the Middle East, and special thanks for the cooperation of MSM.

    No planes crashed and Barbara Olson is now “Lady Booth”.

    The Official Conspiracy has been exposed for many years. OBL died in mid-December 2001 and was buried in Afghanistan.

    Google David Ray Griffin to learn what you don’t know about 9/11.

    Truth Deniers and other gullible NPRers are especially invited to become educated, and not merely brainwashed by GWB, Dick Cheney, MSM et al.

  32. The country is supposed to be ruled by law (which all are supposed to obey and be held accountable), and a Constitution that justifies the existence of the government (as long as it abides by that constitution), so one needs to look at those lawyers who have helped write the Patriot Act, NDAA, as well as to justify the torture memos sent down line by the Bush administration (with Biblical scripture attached). Georgetown Law School seems to be a hideout for these extreme renegade right wing neo-fascist lawyers, who are supposed to be well versed on “Constitutional Law.” Viet Din, a Georgetown Law Professor, helped draft the Patriot Act for the Bush administration, and it was shoved down Congressional throats before they could draft one of their own. Many did not supposedly have the time to read it before signing it or else be labeled as unpatriotic or un-American. Viet Din was also helpful in the Bush Administration’s firing of liberal appellate court justices at the beginning of Bush’s first four years. When you see the rulings by the conservative Supreme Court, you can understand how the Bush White House wanted to go unchallenged when it went over to the “dark side” (Dick Cheney). War crimes have been committed, and the Constitution torn to shreds and used as toilet paper, yet like the CEO’s on Wall Street, no one gets punished!

  33. BLG, my post was the first one on here, and I had your website on there. THESE are the people to listen to on this topic. ARCHITECTS and ENGINEERS! Of course most people prefer not to listen to the people that are experts in the relevant topic. They would have to take their heads out of the sand, and out of other places.

    Barkin’Dog, you are a riot, AS ALWAYS! Thanks for the laugh!

    I would love to see what Gene has to say about all this!

    Bob Kauten, you had it right the first time. You HAS been used! By MSM and your government! You obviously believe anything they tell you! Good to know you can think for yourself! But you might do a lot better speaking to topics like this if you took a couple science classes and learned how things actually work, and then APPLIED them to what happened. Seriously! Have you READ what architects and engineers have said about what happened? Do you know how to think for yourself? Or do you just know how to parrot what your told by MSM and the Feds, like a good little dooby? Do you actually realize that architects and engineers have lots and lots of science and math classes and that does make them experts on this topic? Or is that over your head?

    And why are you bringing Sandy Hook into this topic?

  34. Thank dog there were not any gods on those planes on 9/11. I mean thank god there were not any dogs on those planes on 9/11. I’d be Freemason Bull Dog 33rd Degree. And if I was in New York it would be “turdy turd and a turd dagree”. Well, I am sorry to say that we dogs are not rated on our turds–its all about pedigree.

  35. BobK

    “Patsy bin Laden? She was from the Irish side of the bin Laden family, no?”

    No, he was from the family that owned one of, or THE largest construction company in Saudi Arabia. They had very close ties to the Saudi monarchy and the BOOSH dynasty. That’s how Usama became Bush’s favorite Patsy, and why all those bin Ladens were allowed to fly home shortly after all that Shock and Awe that folks like you and Derran were so bedazzled by, and before Larry “Pull It” Silverstein had received his reward.

  36. If we were rated on our turds instead of our degrees then BarkinDog would be first rate Dog of The Month.

  37. I forgot to add: to assume all palestinians are muslims, is similar to assuming that all americans are christians. Also, not all palestinians agree with the Palestian Authority; there is too much internal conflict, as well as external conflict, within and outside of the Gaza Area.

  38. There are four countries that needed to be investigated for what happened on 911: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel, and the U.S. Certainly Saudi Arabia and Pakistan should have been targeted for invasion over Iraq, which had no WMD, no ties to Al Qaeda, and had nothing to do with 911! Most of the supposed hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, trained in the U.S. on military bases, and some are still alive.
    When the CIA was supporting the Mujahedeen in their war against the Soviet Union invasion, some of the funds were channeled through BCCI (Bank Of Credit & Commerce International) however, when it collapsed as a CIA front organization and for laundering drug money (similar to HSBC and the Vatican Bank), a new channel was used via Israel to Pakistan’s ISI. The ISI basically works for the CIA and receives funding from the U.S., just as we fund Israel with most of our foreign aid. This is probably why the 911 Commission did not follow the money trail from Pakistan’s ISI to Mohammed Atta. Hammed Karzai’s recently assassinated brother was a CIA informant (like Benjamin Netanyahu), and was in charge of the Opium trade in Afghanistan.
    There were several Israeli Mussad who were caught on 911 dancing on rooftops and filming “the event.” Some were driving trucks with explosives, and one van had a picture of a plane striking the twin towers. This was broadcast by of all channels Fox News and you can listen to the official police radio broadcasts. The agents were released from U.S. custody, and on an Israeli talk show stated that they told the police they were there to film the event.
    Israel is the largest foreign power spying on America, and has been doing so since the attack on the USS Liberty and the Jonathan Pollard case. They supply the necessary software and hardware programs for eavesdropping on U.S. communications. If anything, one could argue that the U.S. government bends over backward to do what AIPAC Zionists want.
    There were several explosions heard before and after the second plane hit. Some firefighters and first responders testified to this being the case, yet the NIST still maintains the official version of what happened that day. Only Popular Mechanics seems to agree that fire alone brought down all three buildings, even though Bldg 7 owner Larry Silverstein told “his men” to “pull it.” Also Norman Mineta’s testimony to Congress leaves a lot of unanswered questions about the Vice President’s actions on that day.

    So who has the most to gain from the attack? Number one on the list is the Military-Industrial-Congressional Complex, like Cheney’s Halliburton, Black Water, and other DOD contractors who develop and supply the munitions and weapons systems used in the attack like white phosphorous and depleted uranium projectiles. Certainly not Muslims living in the oil rich Middle East. Even Greenspan said this was all about oil. It certainly wasn’t about democracy or human rights as evidenced by Wikileaks (Bradley Manning & Julian Assange are heroes, and should get the Nobel Peace Prize. Oh yeah I forgot they already gave it to “Kill List” Obama!) So like David Rockefeller (member of the Bilderburg Group) stated: this is about building a pipeline in Afghanistan. It is also about controlling the world’s resources for American hegemony.

  39. Darren: “It’s interesting what has crawled out of the burrows….”

    That’s a little harsh bro. That there are 9-11 truthers is as predictable as blaming victims for being raped. between the ‘just world’ fallacy and the brains innate desire to make order out of chaos how could it be otherwise?

    But, BUT, to dismiss all questions about Saudi influence including who in the government may have known what and when and what influence, if any, could have been exerted by those people is unwise IMO. As well, how closely tied the plotters in the al-Qaeda power structure (leading to OBL) were tied to prominent Saudi officials and clerics and how valuable in accomplishing the Saudi long term goals in the Muslim world an attack in America is a good question.

    For instance, it was humorous to me that Scarborough (a hateful man) stated that we need the Saudis to help us with Iran. That’s how we look at it, the prevailing attitude. If you shift the focus with an eye toward Saudi history and factor in a couple of centuries of conflict with Persia (Iran) for supremacy in the Muslim world (which translates directly to the current funding of the Wahhabist sect for their successful proselytizing of the doctrine into Africa and as far away as Indonesia) then you see that in the Saudi perspective, they need us (and the Israelis) to help them with Persia. Whatever works to cement the relationship is a big plus. Tail wagging the dog?

    Keep in mind that (Prince and close relative to the house of Saud) Bandar bin Sultan (Bandar Bush)was a preeminent source of funds for al-Qaeda for decades as well as being the the Saudi Ambassador to the US for decades ending his tenure during Dubya’s second term. This funding went on after OBL broke ties with his family and began recruiting the best of the best from the rebels fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan) after the Saudi government allowed the US to build at least one permanent base in Arabia after the first Gulf War. Something he considered to be the ultimate betrayal and sin against national and religious interests.

    I would like to know what he knew and when he knew it. At the very least the continued funding was depraved indifference to the safety of their US allies. In the big picture, from my projected Saudi viewpoint, a net plus in their long term aims, an anticipated result that would have more of an upside than downside.

    The talk of Freemasons may be a new and unusual wrinkle in the debate but not the Saudis. Not at all.

    Interesting article on Bandar bin Sultan that also touches on the Saudi efforts (successful) to destabilize and effect regime change in Syria:

    http://saltspringnews.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=22669

  40. Ron re Clinton/Mena airfield/Iran-Contra,

    I didn’t vote for the Republicans that ran against Clinton (Reagan was more than enough Republican Presidents for me so I wouldn’t vote for one) but I wrote in a choice at least the first time Clinton ran and maybe the second also because I was disgusted with his decision to allow Mena to be used. As I recall reading at the time other Governors refused the CIA’s request but not him. I carried grudges for a long time back then.

  41. lottakatz – the right-wingers here would love to try and blunt your message by way of calling you names e.g. anti-semite, Holy Cross denier, Conspiracy theorist, and of course “Truther”.

    Watch out. They only pretend to be open minded. They actually belong on JREF – the site run by a pervert named amazin ___.

  42. Correction: “how valuable in accomplishing the Saudi long term goals in the Muslim world an attack in America [WOULD BE] is a good question.
    ———

    Bill, no one has as yet attacked me. I think people just get caught up in ‘our’ agenda and look at whatever happens through that lens. We are a latecomer on the national stage, most forms of intrigue as well as graft were perfected hundreds of years before we ever started thinking of becoming a new nation. There are disputes ongoing that have were started that long ago too.

    I don’t actually think anyone in the Saudi government sat down and hatched or helped to hatch 911 as a discrete act. I can imaging a conversation going on though among various high ranking Saudi officials discussing the proposal for permanent American bases in Saudi Arabia including in effect,

    statement: ‘There will be blow-back, probably in the US by our, ahem, ‘clients’ if this is approved.’

    response: ‘Um, well, we can work with that, use that.’

    That’s just the way the world has always worked when national interests are at stake. At some point though, it should/may become apparent that useful and limited chaos is morphing into a destructive conflagration and then it needs to be reigned in, stamped out. Beyond that point it is akin to a direct enemy action and consequences must be forthcoming.

    And that’s just speculation, i reiterate- speculation on the Saudis. Once elements of our own government got wind of a potential threat who knows what discussions went on among the Cheney, Wolfeawitz (sp?), Rumsfeld, Project For the New American Century crowd. (PNAC wanted Clinton to invade Iraq, remember?) I don’t trust any of them specifically and I don’t trust government(s) in general. Yea, ‘we can work with that’ could fit in a lot of mouths in the run-up to 9-11.

  43. Look at who had the means, motive, and opportunity. There is simply no way Osama supposedly hiding out in a cave in Afghanistan with a laptop, could have pulled this off without the complicit help of NORAD, and the U.S. Industrial-Military-Espionage-Congressional Complex.

    MEANS: Holding exercises identical to what was going to take place helped confuse and slow down the release of fighter jets to engage the supposedly “hijacked” airliners. Then the Bush Administration stating via Condi Rice that they had no idea this would happen, when that is another blatant lie! When fighters were finally released (something that previously had placed them next to the aircraft in flight in 15 to 20 minutes depending upon the nearest airbase) they were instead directed over open water.

    MOTIVE: Anyone who has heard the rhetoric of the Neo-Cons after the collapse of Communism directed at President Clinton for closing down bases and reducing the size of the military (and thereby creating a surplus that was squandered in two wars) knows what their aim was. One day before 911, Rumsfeld stated on TV that the Pentagon could not account for 2.3 TRILLION dollars! Having read the “Grand Chessboard,” and later “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” you can better understand the Wolfowitz Doctrine and the drive for the U.S. to become the lone superpower in the world (hence the term “New American Century”). These scenarios have been previously thought out and portrayed in various Hollywood films such as “Network,” and “3 Days of the Condor.” Controlling the former Soviet Union, meant occupying the various “Stans” located along its SW border. We now have over 700 bases in over 100 countries.

    OPPORTUNITY: First a Neo-Conservative president had to be placed into office, along with ideologues who would push the agenda of creating a new “enemy” who could be anywhere in any country, requiring a “preemptive strike” without provocation, simply as a publicized “threat.” The concept of asymmetrical warfare in the form of state sponsored terrorism, that would continue to supply the Military-Industrial-Congressional (and increased domestic espionage apparatus) with an even greater portion of the budget was the justification. It was stated in “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” that to institute the draconian measures they wanted; it would be a long task, short of a catalyzing event like “a new Pearl Harbor.” They spoke of “Littoral Seas,” where our Navy would patrol along the coast of a targeted country to ensure embargo and any other sanction would be enforced. Between the first Gulf War, and the second invasion of Iraq, thousands of children died due to a lack of supplies created by the sanctions on Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. Now the Navy has created a new class of warship, designed to be high speed and maneuverable and have “stealth” capability. They are called “Littoral Vessels,” to be used along with Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, Apache Attack Helicopters, Tanks, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) and other Drones, in the never-ending war on terror. These weapons were first created to combat Warsaw Block nations and the former Soviet Union, not meant to be used against unarmed civilian “targets,” later to be listed as “collateral damage.” The Wikileaks video of the helicopter gunship firing 40mm Vulcan machine guns at civilians shows how their bodies are simply blown apart by a weapon meant for enemy tanks. These weapon systems, along with depleted uranium munitions and white phosphorus were used against the uprising in Fallujah and Haditha (along with some new weapons technology such as “heat” microwave weapons).

    The aftermath of these wars is indicated by the increase in suicides among returning veterans, as well as the increase in rape of female soldiers by their comrades in arms. Like Vietnam and Agent Orange, the fragmented depleted uranium shells are showing an increase in birth defects. The White Phosphorus (WP) was indiscriminately sprayed on villagers from helicopters.

  44. And the craziest conspiracy theory of all? That 19 Muslims who could barely speak English, and according to their flight instructors could not control a piper cub, with funding from a couple of cave dwellers in Afghanistan, could hide their intentions from the FBI and CIA for almost 2 years, and then hijack 4 planes, crash two into the WTC and a third into the front door of the pentagon at 500 mph, 50 feet off the ground dead center on the very first try. Hmmm.

    Oh and what about Building 7?

    Now that’s some conspiracy theory.

  45. Feemeister,
    So, you are among the ARCHITECTS and ENGINEERS! that you cite, or are you just reading what they tell you? Because if you just read what you’re told, you don’t know nothing.
    I’d appreciate hearing which science classes I should’ve taken, to find out how things really work.
    I spent 5 years getting a doctorate in biochemistry, but I don’t recall taking any science classes. Bad omission on my part. I still don’t understand how anything works.
    Did you want to school me in how anything works? Anything in particular?
    The only thing I guess I learned, in all that time, while publishing refereed reseach papers, is what is proof and what isn’t. If you get a science education, and do research, you get a very rude awakening as to what constitutes “proof.” It’s real hard. Real frustrating.
    If you want to prove something, show me the data. Don’t tell me about magical conspiracies, involving millions of people. No such thing.
    I brought up Sandy Hook because truthers are truthers, no matter which BS they’re spouting.

  46. ccrider27, No offense (as in ‘I’m probably going to offend you with this but it’s not some kind of baseless attack) but one of the problems with making an argument for some kind of cover-up comes up when what should be settled information is dragged out as unresolved. Everybody knows what happened to #7. Silverstine (sp?) was on a TV show and said repeatedly that he gave the order to “pull it’ [down] due to safety concerns. For days after that there were news articles and TV speculation that that act might put any insurance claims he wanted to make in jeopardy. Silverstine was recanting by then: ‘I didn’t say it, it didn’t mean what it sounded like, I misspoke blah, blah, blah.’

    The only possible question is who planted the explosives and when because a couple of likely suspects were interviewed afterward (one of them some public safety official from the city who would have had jurisdiction) and he said his people nor the people that he would consider authorized to place the explosives had done it. That’s an interesting loose end but unless you’re talking about that specifically I can’t see any question regarding #7.

    All anyone had to do was watch TV to find out what happened. I may be missing something but I’ve never seen any question regarding ‘what about #7′.

  47. The TSA is letting airline passengers board planes while in possession of pocket knives. I dont know their position on box cutters. But, Jeso. It does not hurt to exclude them and it is dangerous to allow them.

    Of course the old adage might apply:
    Why change dicks in the middle of a screw, vote for Nixon in ’72.

  48. I love Bob Kauten. He’s my daddy, because Daddy knows best. Daddy always makes me feel better when I wake up during a nightmare. Why? Daddy knows best. C’mon all of you, “make room for Daddy”. Over and out.

  49. Saudi Arabia is also on the DHS Global Entry trusted traveler program also. “Travelers approved for the program can skip the normal Customs and Border Protection (CBP) lines starting next year and enter the country after providing their passports and fingerprints at a kiosk. Only Canada, Mexico, South Korea and the Netherlands currently enjoy the benefit”.

    http://current.com/community/94080780_dhs-questioned-over-decision-to-let-saudi-passengers-skip-normal-passport-controls.htm

  50. Richard,
    Daddy loves you, too. Not best, but he still loves you.
    I’m glad it doesn’t bother you, when I’m with your Mommy.
    Now take your pills, like Daddy tells you.
    See? The paranoids that are out to get you, just gradually fade away.
    You’ll be strong enough to come out from under the bed, any day, now.
    Then you can go to school, and Daddy will be so proud of you!

  51. I do not know if there is any truth to the conspiracy theories but I do know that people like Bob Kauten are the true threat to our nations Bill of Rights. Blind arrogant fascism. He is the face of the new Neo Democrats.

    Between people like Bob on the left and people like Rush Limbaugh on the right, this country is screwed. .

  52. This was all more about setting up a fascist Christian theocracy here at home (something Al Qaeda could never do) than about any war on terror! When I think back about how Hitler aligned himself with the orthodox Catholics in Bavaria in order to spearhead his nationalistic movement, I see similarities here in the U.S. One thing you can count on is that as the heat is slowly turned up and we begin to boil under this fascist New World Order, we will not en masse do anything until they declare Martial Law and march us off to FEMA camps (THEN IT WILL BE TOO LATE!).. NAFTA is helping in this endeavor, and the loss of sovereignty of nations will apply to the U.S. as well as the EU. One thing you can count on is that those who control the money supply, control governments. This is true of the Federal Reserve, as it is true of Brussels and the EU.

  53. We cannot distract ourselves with conspiracies. It is counterproductive.

    What we CAN do is instead defend the Bill of Rights against the Fascists that are taking over both major political parties. That is the single issue we need to focus on. Ignore all the background noise and distractions.

    So put all of that aside because it does sound crazy sometimes.

    But what isnt crazy is the abuse and the very real threat to the Bill of Rights.

    So speak up and stop Big Brother fascism. Speak only about policy that is directly affecting our liberties and FUTURE liberties. Do not give them ammo to label you as a crazy paranoid. Focus on the facts.

    Like I tell other people. There is time later down the road to argue about social security, national healthcare, gays, abortion etc etc. For right now that is nothing but distraction issues for the Fascists while they strip our rights.

  54. The man who was Commander of NATO is a Type A Conspiracy Nut to the official Type B Conspiracy Nuts:

    “What happened in 9/11 is we didn’t have a strategy. We didn’t have bipartisan agreement. We didn’t have American understanding of it. And we had instead a policy coup in this country, a coup, a policy coup.

    Some hard nosed people took over American policy and they never bothered to inform the rest of us.”

    (A Tale of Coup Cities – 2). He said he went to the Pentagon 10 days after 911 and was told that nobody was going to stop them from bombing whomever and where ever they wanted to. Nobody.

    He goes on to explain that the wars we have seen were planned well before 911, “we are going to attack and destroy the governments of seven nations in five years” … so in ten days they had discovered seven nations were involved in 911? Or what? It had been planned earlier?

    The Four Star General continued … “and then it came back to me … a meeting with Paul Wolfowitz … in 1991 … said … we need to clean up … Syria, Iran, Iraq …” (ten years before 911) … he goes on “this country was taken over by a … coup …”

    It became The HOMELAND didn’t in?

  55. Bob Kauten 1, March 23, 2013 at 10:30 pm


    I’d appreciate hearing which science classes I should’ve taken, to find out how things really work.

    I spent 5 years getting a doctorate in biochemistry, but I don’t recall taking any science classes. Bad omission on my part. I still don’t understand how anything works.
    =========================================
    Your doctorate in biochemistry qualifies you to work on biochemical projects (e.g. WMD, etc.) but it would not get you an Architect or Structural Engineer degree or any license to design and construct skyscrapers.

    There are thousands of people who took science classes to qualify as Architects and Engineers on skyscrapers.

    They have the licenses, and have built them, designed, them, and worked on them (one of the “truthers” as you call them, worked on the twin towers as an official approving designs etc.).

    I doubt that your input would be instructive to them in matters of skyscrapers made of steel, like their input would not be instructive to your endeavors in biochemistry or biowarfare.

    One example out of thousands:

    Professor and Dean Emeritus, School of Architecture and Design, Howard University. Twice appointed by the President of the United States to be Commissioner and then elected Chairman, United States Commission of Fine Arts. Past President of two major national architectural organizations – National Architectural Accrediting Board, 1996, and National Council of Architectural Registration Boards, 1992. Chairman, UNESCO International Commission on the Goree Memorial and Museum that was established to guide the development of this project in Dakar, Senegal. He has served on major boards and commissions, including the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund, Committee for the Preservation of the White House, White House Historical Association and the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. Founder and Past Director, Center for Built Environment Studies, Morgan State University. Elected membership in the American Institute of Architects’ College of Fellows. In 2003 he was awarded the highest honor bestowed by the Washington Chapter of the AIA, the Centennial Medal. In 2004 he was awarded the District of Columbia Council of Engineering and Architecture Societies Architect of the Year award. Principal, TRG Consulting Global / Architecture, Urban Design, Planning, Project Strategies. Veteran U.S. Army, awarded the Bronze Star for bravery and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam.

    (Harry G. Robinson III, FAIA, AICP, NOMA). There are thousands of highly competent scientists in architecture and steel structural engineering who are “truthers”.

    The shameful ad hominem displays of some here show intellectual bankruptcy or intellectual incest.

    It is quite unbecoming of anyone claiming to be a critical thinker.

  56. Darren,
    You are right. I expect the Birthers to be next.
    Nal,
    Amazing story of religion trying to protect itself by inventing even crazier “realities”!

  57. I said above that some commenting on this thread have shown intellectual bankruptcy or intellectual incest.

    However, there are psychological reasons as well:

    Research on TMT and SJT strongly suggests that defending the current U.S. political system and its prerogatives post-9/11 requires individual and collective denial to block out any and all information undermining the government’s account of 9/11 and hence the archetypal image of “America Under Attack.” When a particular mindset governs the collective consciousness to promote a particular agenda, such as the U.S. government’s account of 9/11 parroted by the mainstream media without judicious investigation, the result is what McMurtry (2007) refers to as a “ruling group-mind” (RGM) …

    (American Behavioral Scientist Journal, Vol. 53, Num. 6, page 863, emphasis added). I am not saying that those in a trance of denial are as culpable as those who are intellectually bankrupt or intellectually incestuous.

    Lack of sanity because of fear is a valid defense and there are competent doctors who can treat it, however, willful stupidity is not treatable.

  58. rafflaw 1, March 24, 2013 at 8:35 am

    Darren,
    You are right. I expect the Birthers to be next.

    Nal,
    Amazing story of religion trying to protect itself by inventing even crazier “realities”!
    ===========================================
    I can’t see how “religion trying to protect itself” is a valid notion seeing as how religion, like science, is not sentient or even alive to the point it can protect itself.

    More like religionists making a statement outside their realm of competency.

    That has happened a lot on this thread.

    I was forced to quote those who are competent in some of those disciplines, since I am not competent in them.

    The U.S. Government has been visiting that “religion” that is trying to protect itself, and urging another religion claiming to be trying to protect itself, to live in peace.

    Smear campaigns would be one thing they would urge should be left out of the details of an effort at peace I would guess.

    Intellectual bankruptcy and intellectual incest are sources of smear campaigns that are the only thing an intellectual bankrupt or intellectually incestuous participant in a conversation or debate has to offer.

    Yacking off is not critical thinking.

  59. Yacking off is not critical thinking. -Dredd

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/23/noam-chomsky-guardian-personality

    Repeating what Dredd posted earlier in this thread (10:47 on 3/23) from Glenn Greenwald’s column in The Guardian:

    “One very common tactic for enforcing political orthodoxies is to malign the character, “style” and even mental health of those who challenge them. The most extreme version of this was an old Soviet favorite: to declare political dissidents mentally ill and put them in hospitals. In the US, those who take even the tiniest steps outside of political convention are instantly decreed “crazy”, as happened to the 2002 anti-war version of Howard Dean and the current iteration of Ron Paul (in most cases, what is actually “crazy” are the political orthodoxies this tactic seeks to shield from challenge).

    This method is applied with particular aggression to those who engage in any meaningful dissent against the society’s most powerful factions and their institutions.”

    Greenwald continues:

    But what is at play here is this destructive dynamic that the more one dissents from political orthodoxies, the more personalized, style-focused and substance-free the attacks become. That’s because once someone becomes sufficiently critical of establishment pieties, the goal is not merely to dispute their claims but to silence them. That’s accomplished by demonizing the person on personality and style grounds to the point where huge numbers of people decide that nothing they say should even be considered, let alone accepted. It’s a sorry and anti-intellectual tactic, to be sure, but a brutally effective one.”

    Again:

    “…the goal is not merely to dispute their claims but to silence them. That’s accomplished by demonizing the person on personality and style grounds to the point where huge numbers of people decide that nothing they say should even be considered, let alone accepted. It’s a sorry and anti-intellectual tactic, to be sure, but a brutally effective one.”

    If the shoe fits…

  60. So Bob Kauten, truthers are truthers no matter what BS they are spouting? That seems to equate with you believing truth is BS, which fits right into the things you were saying.

    Some of us are actually searching for truth, and don’t accept the pablum we are fed to appease us and make us look no further because we’re content to have any old thing handed to us.

    I don’t need to present you with the evidence; it is on the website I showed on the first post of this thread. The architects and engineers are the ones that have presented it. and just as Dredd pointed out, THEY are the ones to make determinations on this, NOT a biochemist who obviously has no training in structural physics and mechanics.

    Tunnel vision does not work in the search for truth.

    And actually, there are experts in psychiatry (another field that is apparently not yours) who have said that people that can listen to the facts people have found and still fail to acknowledge them, are basically afraid (I’m paraphrasing here, as I don’t remember the quotes); they minds can’t deal with the seriousness of the implications, so their defense mechanisms kick in. When you first learn these things it’s like being kicked in the stomach. You have to adjust and move on. But some people cannot accept the stomach kick.

  61. Some of us are actually searching for truth, and don’t accept the pablum we are fed to appease us and make us look no further because we’re content to have any old thing handed to us. -feemeister

    Too many are content to “accept the pablum”…

    Washington Post Defends Not Running Article On Iraq Media Failure

    by Michael Calderone

    Posted: 03/24/2013

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/24/washington-post-iraq-media-failure_n_2944227.html

  62. Feemeister, Richard (right on!), Dredd,
    Who the hell are you arguing with? I like Art Deco and Craftsman architecture. I am not at all interested in the architecture of tall boxes. If I was, I’d study it, rather than just parroting opinions of unknown “experts.” If you’re not interested in investing the time and energy necessary to learn about it yourself, why are you talking about it?

    Dredd, “There are thousands of people who took science classes to qualify as Architects and Engineers on skyscrapers.” So…are you one of them? If not, what’s your point? Are you Howard Roark, incognito?
    I did not say that I knew anything about architecture. If I want to build a storage shed, I study how that architecture works.

    I was challenged, by feemeister, to take some science classes, so I’d know how “anything works.” I very subtly suggested that perhaps I may have already taken physics and chemistry classes, so maybe I have some understanding about how anything works. He still hasn’t told me which courses I should take. I’m always keen to learn at the feet of a master.
    I’ve also published papers with materials engineers. I suppose I might understand very basic principles of force, heat, mechanics, that stuff. I’m not applying it to 9/11 or to architecture, because I’m not interested. If I was, I’d study it. You could do likewise, if that’s your interest. If you weren’t too damned lazy.
    You’re trying to argue with some person who thinks that a biochemistry degree confers knowledge of architecture. As I said, who the hell are you arguing with? Yourselves? Fascinating!

    9/11, and other religious cults, are of no interest to me. I don’t waste my time in magical thinking or inventing conspiracies, which are really the same thing. I don’t argue with magical thinkers about their religions, because I simply don’t believe in any of them. And you can tell your invisible friends and enemies that I said so.

    Anon,
    “…people like Bob Kauten are the true threat to our nations Bill of Rights.” Little ol’ me? I’m honored!
    People like Anon don’t have the cojones to sign their names when they spew vitriol.
    Anon, you speak like a man with a paper rectum. Coincidence? I think not.

    OK, the adult in the room has other stuff to do. You may return to your child games, now. Just keep it down, so I don’t have to come down here again, understood?

  63. Bob Kauten 1, March 24, 2013 at 3:15 pm


    I don’t waste my time in magical thinking or inventing conspiracies, which are really the same thing. I don’t argue with magical thinkers about their religions, because I simply don’t believe in any of them. And you can tell your invisible friends and enemies that I said so.
    ===========================================
    It must all be so if you say so. Self authenticating.

    The author of this post sums up your deep and troubling denial well:

    However, this would be an example of the No True Scotsman logical fallacy where “an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing.”

    Which shows how torqued the Bush II fellas and their supporters are.

    “You are with us or against us.” -Magical Thinker In Chief

  64. To the one who believes that he’s the “adult in the room”:

    Let’s take a peek at another thread:

    Comment:

    Bob Kauten 1, January 25, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Here you libtards go again. …

    Response:

    Mike Spindell 1, January 25, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    “Here you libtards go again”

    One who uses the word “libtards” has a 100% chance of being a fool. Guess you qualify Bob K.

  65. Words of wisdom from the Director of the 911 Games (a.k.a. Bobby Kauten’s Magic Mind Games):

    “I’m going to put people in my place, so when the history of this administration is written at least there’s an authoritarian voice saying exactly what happened.”—On what he hopes to accomplish with his memoir, as reported by the Associated Press, Calgary, Canada, March 17, 2009

    “I’m telling you there’s an enemy that would like to attack America, Americans, again. There just is. That’s the reality of the world. And I wish him all the very best.”—Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009

    “I’ve been in the Bible every day since I’ve been the president.”—Washington, D.C., Nov. 12, 2008

    “I’ll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office.”—Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008

    “I can press when there needs to be pressed; I can hold hands when there needs to be—hold hands.”—on how he can contribute to the Middle East peace process, Washington, D.C., Jan. 4, 2008

    “And there is distrust in Washington. I am surprised, frankly, at the amount of distrust that exists in this town. And I’m sorry it’s the case, and I’ll work hard to try to elevate it.”— Speaking on National Public Radio, Jan. 29, 2007

    “You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror.”—Interview with CBS News, Washington D.C., Sept. 6, 2006

    “I’ve reminded the prime minister—the American people, Mr. Prime Minister, over the past months that it was not always a given that the United States and America would have a close relationship.”—Washington, D.C., June 29, 2006

    “And I want those who are questioning it to step up and explain why all of a sudden a Middle Eastern company is held to a different standard than a Great British company.”—Defending a plan to allow a company from the United Arab Emirates to manage ports in the United States, aboard Air Force One, Feb. 21, 2006

    “If you found somebody that had information about an attack on America, you’d want to know as best as we can to find out what the facts are.”—Philadelphia, Pa., Dec. 12, 2005

    “I mean, there was a serious international effort to say to Saddam Hussein, you’re a threat. And the 9/11 attacks extenuated that threat, as far as I—concerned.”—Philadelphia, Dec. 12, 2005

    “See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”—Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

    “It’s in our country’s interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm’s way.”—Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005

    “Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”—Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004(Thanks to Alicia Butler.)

    There are a zillion others, all reasons to believe, so keep the magic faith baby.

  66. The adult in the room totally disqualified what the qualified architect in the room had to say. And no, I am not an architect or engineer and never claimed to be. But I know many of them, have worked with them and respect them very much. And I listened to what THEY had to say about the logistics of what happened in 911.

    Unfortunately for you, there was not a lot of biochemistry involved, which makes you definitely not an expert in this field. Yet you disparage people who LISTEN to experts in this field, all the while flapping about not caring about tall boxes. So you don’t care, so what! Other people DO, and they actually use their brain cells to hear all sides and see which one is the correct one. And that is usually very easy to do, once you listen with an open mind, to all sides of a story. Of course you do have liars in there, but they’re usually pretty easy to flush out, when you hear everything.

    I’m sure you’re way too involved with your biochemical agents to have time for tall boxes which you don’t care about anyway. If you don’t care what the experts in the field have to say about it, you obviously have made up your mind without listening to the facts involved. Even being the king of biochemists does not make you a structural engineer.

    And what is all this magical stuff you keep ranting about? What does MAGIC have to do with anything? I don’t think anyone has even thought of magic here except for you, and I’m not sure why?

  67. Oh, by the way, since you were ignoring it, my comment about the architect above was what BLG said:

    As a registered architect with a structures background, I refer you to http://www.ae911truth.org – Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth – where it is rendered clear for nearly any sentient being with more than a few neurons to rub together that the towers (plus building 7) were brought down with controlled demolition.

    Until we, as a nation, are willing to expose and accept the truth behind the horrible lie that is 911, we cannot right our country socially, geopolitically or economically.

    See, you didn’t even care if you DID hear it from a structural architect, who is a specialist in tall boxes!

  68. Darren Smith is a voice of right-wing toleration? He’s an anti-intellectual? or just another organism that lives under a rocK.

  69. This is true: If I were conducting an investigation of what happened that day, I would consult the leading experts in the field of demolitions, high rise architecture, engineers, pilots, firemen and first responders, scientists, academics and others. I would also sift through all the evidence, including the “hot spots” that were reported long after the collapse of the buildings by firemen as being “like a foundry down there.” Many firefighters reported explosions before the collapse, and all the concrete was pulverized into dust, something that does not happen when a building collapses (except when demolitions are used). I would study the steel (most of which was removed) for any unusual “cuts” that may indicate the use of nano-thermite. I would also look into the “puts” on the stock market for the airlines just before 911, who did it, and how did they get the prior knowledge. I would also take Dr. Steven Jones of BYU as a serious input as he is an expert in the field of explosives. I would also look at what Dr. Judy Woods has to say on her investigation of the crime scene. I would read all I could by David Ray Griffin, and Mike Ruppert. I would look at other points of view like those produced in Italy (Zero, An Investigation Into 911), and Germany (Unter Falscher Flagge):

    I would look at documentaries such as 911 Press For Truth:

    I would also interview all the members of AE911 Truth, who are experts in their field. I would have interrogated all members of the Bin Laden family before they were spirited out of the country right after 911, when all flights were officially grounded. I would have interrogated the Israeli Mussad who were caught that day driving vehicles with explosives. I would have interrogated the BBC broadcasters about who told them in advance that Bldg 7 had collapsed (when it was still seen standing behind the reporter), since no high rise before or since 911 has ever collapsed due to fire alone. Some high rises have been completely gutted by fire, but still remained standing. I would concentrate on Bldg 7 since it was completely ignored by the 911 Commission, as well as the missing videos of the Pentagon hit. First indication was too small a hole in the Pentagon to be caused by an airliner. Also, none of the large titanium engine parts were ever found.
    I would also go back and look at previous “terrorist” attacks like the one in the Federal Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. Local TV news reported two more bombs were found inside the building that were more powerful and sophisticated than the manure bomb that Timothy McVeigh supposedly set off. Who had access to the building to do this? Certainly NOT Timothy McVeigh! After the first bombing of the WTC in the 90’s, an FBI informant suspected that his FBI handler was setting him up, so he recorded his phone conversation in which he asked his handler if they were to use the real explosive or a fake explosive. The handler basically told him to use the real stuff they had supplied. The truck bomb was eventually placed away from the center core columns, and did more damage to an adjacent building than the WTC. THE BUILDINGS DID NOT COME DOWN AS INTENDED!
    FINALLY, I would water board Larry Silverstein, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, and Rice!

  70. Here is a theory. It’s mine, so I don’t care if you believe it (you can call it a “conspiracy theory,” or nightmare, it doesn’t really matter), I’m just trying to get people to think outside their ‘bubble:”

    There were periods where the surviving workers of various companies in the twin towers recalled that before 911; they were asked not to come in on various floors that were being “renovated.” This would take place off-and-on over several months. During this period, a binary explosive could have been made into a paint that was sprayed onto the metal and interior surfaces (ceiling, walls, and floor) of the building. The paint could have also been compounded to absorb energy. A high energy transmitter could have been directed at the building at the time it started to collapse to further “pulverize” it into dust. The high energy transmitter could be located in a helicopter overhead, or in a building nearby. A first responder interviewed stated that you could not find anything larger than a couple of inches such as the push buttons on a telephone keypad. Even the bones of victims could not be found larger than an inch, and many were found blocks away on the tops of other buildings. Even the ceramic bathroom sinks and toilets could not be found.

    Each floor could have C-4 placed underneath that would cut the connection to the aluminum outside support structure. C-4 is interesting in that hitting it with a hammer will not cause it to go off. You can even burn it to heat your C-Rations. Only a blasting cap or Det-Cord will cause it to explode. Better yet, modern cutting charges at the floor wall connection could be timed to go off as the upper floor descends. Det-Cord could be run down from the charge on the floor above to ignite the charge on the next floor below, causing the upper floor to “pancake” on the floor below.

    However, before this could happen, the inner core columns would need to be weakened prior to this, hence the explosions heard by various firefighters. It’s interesting that these core columns were found to be in lengths transportable by trucks. After the core columns were weakened, only the outer aluminum structure would need to be sequentially cut at the floor/wall connection.

    This brings us to Building 7: If it was “pulled,” it takes weeks to prepare. So why bring down a building that was not hit by aircraft? Look at what was inside the building such as what organizations, documents and equipment were housed there. It was the “Command Center,” and built much stronger than other high rises.

  71. Watch how uncomfortable Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and General Meyers become when asked about new weapon’s technology being used in the “war on terror.” Actually most of this technology was developed in the 1980’s during Regan’s “Star Wars” program, and some of it was even tested during the invasion of Panama:

  72. Ron, I mean, bill,

    Your investigation skills would be greatly lacking because it is apparent that if you were in charge of the 9/11 investigation you would have already come to a conclusion before starting the invstigation, finding only so called evidence that supports your initial assumption.

    It is obvious that you would not consult experts that might refute your conclusion either, because you have either ignored or castigated their intentions or credibility.

    And you would also introduce laughable and preposterous suppositions such as one of your more incredible bits:

    “A high energy transmitter could have been directed at the building at the time it started to collapse to further “pulverize” it into dust. The high energy transmitter could be located in a helicopter overhead, or in a building nearby. “

    I might suggest that you stop using the likes of the Art Bell Show as sources of your theories. Some gov’t officicial did not help bring down the WTC with a high energy transmitter any more than the Yammato from the cartoon Star Blazers did with its Wave Motion Gun.

    You might say that you are trying to educate people to alternate explainations as to what happened, but what you proffer about the 9/11 events is unbelievable by any valid standard.

  73. This has been fun, at times, but I’m not feeding this cluster-fornication any further.
    By the way, I’m a Master of Kleftnobulism, and that qualifies me to state that none of this speed-freak paranoid delusion could have happened.
    Need I remind you guys, that the Mother Ship arrives in three days? I think you’d better start packin’.

  74. Dang it Bob Kauten,

    You leave just when I wanted to secure your credibility by asking you some questions about the anthrax attacks of the 911 mystery:

    A former Army microbiologist who worked for years with Bruce E. Ivins, whom the F.B.I. has blamed for the anthrax letter attacks that killed five people in 2001, told a National Academy of Sciences panel on Thursday that he believed it was impossible that the deadly spores had been produced undetected in Dr. Ivins’s laboratory, as the F.B.I. asserts.

    Asked by reporters after his testimony whether he believed that there was any chance that Dr. Ivins, who committed suicide in 2008, had carried out the attacks, the microbiologist, Henry S. Heine, replied, “Absolutely not.” At the Army’s biodefense laboratory in Maryland, where Dr. Ivins and Dr. Heine worked, he said, “among the senior scientists, no one believes it.”

    Dr. Heine said he did not dispute that there was a genetic link between the spores in the letters and the anthrax in Dr. Ivins’s flask — a link that led the F.B.I. to conclude that Dr. Ivins had grown the spores from a sample taken from the flask. But samples from the flask were widely shared, Dr. Heine said. Accusing Dr. Ivins of the attacks, he said, was like tracing a murder to the clerk at the sporting goods shop who sold the bullets.
    “Whoever did this is still running around out there,” Dr. Heine said. “I truly believe that.”

    (Mysto Army Anthrax Lab Shut Down – 2). Hey Mrs. Kauten, can Bob come out and play with Ron?

  75. Mr. Drumm, I cannot believe this propaganda is still embraced by Americans. Twin towers came down under controlled demolition. Architects, Builders, and Scientists have proven so. Watch the explosive charges in the videos. Bldg. 7, untouched by any plane, went down 5+ hours after the twin towers. Is it true that Bush’s brother’s “security” biz had the security contracts for these buildings at the time of the “attack?” Don’t you suppose Dick Cheney made millions of dollars from Halliburton for this trick (former CEO)? These hapless goons entered the most highly protected air space on the planet to fly this huge plane in a nearly impossible path to the pentagon (allegedly)? We pay huge taxes to support a huge criminal syndicate that is the immensely obscene federal government of the US. The Bush family has been involved in government crimes since (at least) HW’s carreer in CIA – the largest drug cartel in human history. It’s likely that “the texan” HW was involved in the Dallas murder of JFK.

    Really, stop watching CNBC and do your own homework. That is the only way Americans will BEGIN to understand what has been, and continues, to plague us.

  76. Those who still stick their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is “normal,” so that they can go about their daily business so their bubble of “reality,” does not burst, are as much a part of the American problem as those that committed this act! However, there are some that secretly in their heart of hearts go along with this rather than having fingers pointing at “their people.” There may be some Jews and Christians who are still members of the liberal left, but when it comes to Israel, the Mussad, and the Palestinian issue, they are all Zionists and many are members of AIPAC. That is why the right wing extremists in this country refer to the government in Washington as “ZOG,” or the Zionist Occupied Government. I am not saying that I necessarily go along with that, however, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, chances are IT IS A DUCK! One does get the distinct impression that something is not right up there on Capitol Hill. That something or some group is controlling the government other than the American voting/tax paying public who have become economically disenfranchised as well as politically.
    So you out there that have your own hidden agenda, and support either by your silence, or deliberately, the notion that these planes were “hijacked,” by terrorists who couldn’t fly a model airplane, much less a large airliner, go ahead and play with your Ipad, watch Keeping Up With The Kardasians, and Dancing With The Stars. Go ahead and keep consuming and wasting and supporting those at the top. Go ahead and keep thinking that oil and gas are more important that clean air, water and food. When you get up in the morning, and look in the mirror, realize you are looking at your worst enemy, unless you wake up!

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