-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger
Al-Hayat al-Jadida, the official daily newspaper of the Palestinian Authority, published an Op-ed by Hassan Ouda Abu Zaher. The Op-ed states: “to the lie about Al-Qaeda and the Sept. 11 events, which asserted that Muslim terrorists committed it, and that it was not an internal American action by the Freemasons.” While there are many conspiracy theories about the Sept. 11 attacks, there are usually relegated to fringe websites. Unsurprisingly, no evidence is presented to support such a fanciful claim.
This is Islamic lunacy and should be opposed by all rational human beings. That this lunacy is supported by the Palestinian Authority confirms a World Public Opinion poll that showed that 46% of Palestinians believe that the U.S. government or Israel was behind the attacks.
This degree of credulousness is not unexpected when people are raised from infancy to believe nonsense, such as Muhammad ascending to heaven on a winged horse. Philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer wrote on this subject in the 19th century:
If, in early childhood, certain fundamental views and doctrines are paraded with unusual solemnity, and an air of the greatest earnestness never before visible in anything else; if, at the same time, the possibility of a doubt about them be completely passed over, or touched upon only to indicate that doubt is the first step to eternal perdition, the resulting impression will be so deep that, as a rule, that is, in almost every case, doubt about them will be almost as impossible as doubt about one’s own existence.
A Sophisticated Islamic Theologian™ might assert that no true Muslim would have committed the attacks on Sept. 11, in contradiction to the available evidence, including the admission by al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden that he orchestrated the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. However, this would be an example of the No True Scotsman logical fallacy where “an individual attempts to avoid being associated with an unpleasant act by asserting that no true member of the group they belong to would do such a thing.”
James Madison wrote of the importance of a “perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters” in his letter to Edward Livingston in 1822. While Madison’s “perfect separation” is under constant attack, we need not look far to see the effect of ignoring his wisdom.
H/T: Jerry Coyne.
http://youtu.be/R1QRTHHlJ-I
(Elvis isn’t dead?)
Bob Kauten,
“9/11, and other religious cults, are of no interest to me.”
What about Elvis?
To the one who believes that he’s the “adult in the room”:
Let’s take a peek at another thread:
Comment:
Bob Kauten 1, January 25, 2012 at 1:39 pm
Here you libtards go again. …
Response:
Mike Spindell 1, January 25, 2012 at 2:00 pm
“Here you libtards go again”
One who uses the word “libtards” has a 100% chance of being a fool. Guess you qualify Bob K.
Bob Kauten 1, March 24, 2013 at 3:15 pm
…
I don’t waste my time in magical thinking or inventing conspiracies, which are really the same thing. I don’t argue with magical thinkers about their religions, because I simply don’t believe in any of them. And you can tell your invisible friends and enemies that I said so.
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It must all be so if you say so. Self authenticating.
The author of this post sums up your deep and troubling denial well:
Which shows how torqued the Bush II fellas and their supporters are.
“You are with us or against us.” -Magical Thinker In Chief
Feemeister, Richard (right on!), Dredd,
Who the hell are you arguing with? I like Art Deco and Craftsman architecture. I am not at all interested in the architecture of tall boxes. If I was, I’d study it, rather than just parroting opinions of unknown “experts.” If you’re not interested in investing the time and energy necessary to learn about it yourself, why are you talking about it?
Dredd, “There are thousands of people who took science classes to qualify as Architects and Engineers on skyscrapers.” So…are you one of them? If not, what’s your point? Are you Howard Roark, incognito?
I did not say that I knew anything about architecture. If I want to build a storage shed, I study how that architecture works.
I was challenged, by feemeister, to take some science classes, so I’d know how “anything works.” I very subtly suggested that perhaps I may have already taken physics and chemistry classes, so maybe I have some understanding about how anything works. He still hasn’t told me which courses I should take. I’m always keen to learn at the feet of a master.
I’ve also published papers with materials engineers. I suppose I might understand very basic principles of force, heat, mechanics, that stuff. I’m not applying it to 9/11 or to architecture, because I’m not interested. If I was, I’d study it. You could do likewise, if that’s your interest. If you weren’t too damned lazy.
You’re trying to argue with some person who thinks that a biochemistry degree confers knowledge of architecture. As I said, who the hell are you arguing with? Yourselves? Fascinating!
9/11, and other religious cults, are of no interest to me. I don’t waste my time in magical thinking or inventing conspiracies, which are really the same thing. I don’t argue with magical thinkers about their religions, because I simply don’t believe in any of them. And you can tell your invisible friends and enemies that I said so.
Anon,
“…people like Bob Kauten are the true threat to our nations Bill of Rights.” Little ol’ me? I’m honored!
People like Anon don’t have the cojones to sign their names when they spew vitriol.
Anon, you speak like a man with a paper rectum. Coincidence? I think not.
OK, the adult in the room has other stuff to do. You may return to your child games, now. Just keep it down, so I don’t have to come down here again, understood?
Some of us are actually searching for truth, and don’t accept the pablum we are fed to appease us and make us look no further because we’re content to have any old thing handed to us. -feemeister
Too many are content to “accept the pablum”…
Washington Post Defends Not Running Article On Iraq Media Failure
by Michael Calderone
Posted: 03/24/2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/24/washington-post-iraq-media-failure_n_2944227.html
So Bob Kauten, truthers are truthers no matter what BS they are spouting? That seems to equate with you believing truth is BS, which fits right into the things you were saying.
Some of us are actually searching for truth, and don’t accept the pablum we are fed to appease us and make us look no further because we’re content to have any old thing handed to us.
I don’t need to present you with the evidence; it is on the website I showed on the first post of this thread. The architects and engineers are the ones that have presented it. and just as Dredd pointed out, THEY are the ones to make determinations on this, NOT a biochemist who obviously has no training in structural physics and mechanics.
Tunnel vision does not work in the search for truth.
And actually, there are experts in psychiatry (another field that is apparently not yours) who have said that people that can listen to the facts people have found and still fail to acknowledge them, are basically afraid (I’m paraphrasing here, as I don’t remember the quotes); they minds can’t deal with the seriousness of the implications, so their defense mechanisms kick in. When you first learn these things it’s like being kicked in the stomach. You have to adjust and move on. But some people cannot accept the stomach kick.
Yacking off is not critical thinking. -Dredd
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/23/noam-chomsky-guardian-personality
Repeating what Dredd posted earlier in this thread (10:47 on 3/23) from Glenn Greenwald’s column in The Guardian:
“One very common tactic for enforcing political orthodoxies is to malign the character, “style” and even mental health of those who challenge them. The most extreme version of this was an old Soviet favorite: to declare political dissidents mentally ill and put them in hospitals. In the US, those who take even the tiniest steps outside of political convention are instantly decreed “crazy”, as happened to the 2002 anti-war version of Howard Dean and the current iteration of Ron Paul (in most cases, what is actually “crazy” are the political orthodoxies this tactic seeks to shield from challenge).
This method is applied with particular aggression to those who engage in any meaningful dissent against the society’s most powerful factions and their institutions.”
Greenwald continues:
But what is at play here is this destructive dynamic that the more one dissents from political orthodoxies, the more personalized, style-focused and substance-free the attacks become. That’s because once someone becomes sufficiently critical of establishment pieties, the goal is not merely to dispute their claims but to silence them. That’s accomplished by demonizing the person on personality and style grounds to the point where huge numbers of people decide that nothing they say should even be considered, let alone accepted. It’s a sorry and anti-intellectual tactic, to be sure, but a brutally effective one.”
Again:
“…the goal is not merely to dispute their claims but to silence them. That’s accomplished by demonizing the person on personality and style grounds to the point where huge numbers of people decide that nothing they say should even be considered, let alone accepted. It’s a sorry and anti-intellectual tactic, to be sure, but a brutally effective one.”
If the shoe fits…
Right on!
rafflaw 1, March 24, 2013 at 8:35 am
Darren,
You are right. I expect the Birthers to be next.
Nal,
Amazing story of religion trying to protect itself by inventing even crazier “realities”!
===========================================
I can’t see how “religion trying to protect itself” is a valid notion seeing as how religion, like science, is not sentient or even alive to the point it can protect itself.
More like religionists making a statement outside their realm of competency.
That has happened a lot on this thread.
I was forced to quote those who are competent in some of those disciplines, since I am not competent in them.
The U.S. Government has been visiting that “religion” that is trying to protect itself, and urging another religion claiming to be trying to protect itself, to live in peace.
Smear campaigns would be one thing they would urge should be left out of the details of an effort at peace I would guess.
Intellectual bankruptcy and intellectual incest are sources of smear campaigns that are the only thing an intellectual bankrupt or intellectually incestuous participant in a conversation or debate has to offer.
Yacking off is not critical thinking.
I said above that some commenting on this thread have shown intellectual bankruptcy or intellectual incest.
However, there are psychological reasons as well:
(American Behavioral Scientist Journal, Vol. 53, Num. 6, page 863, emphasis added). I am not saying that those in a trance of denial are as culpable as those who are intellectually bankrupt or intellectually incestuous.
Lack of sanity because of fear is a valid defense and there are competent doctors who can treat it, however, willful stupidity is not treatable.
Darren,
You are right. I expect the Birthers to be next.
Nal,
Amazing story of religion trying to protect itself by inventing even crazier “realities”!
Bob Kauten 1, March 23, 2013 at 10:30 pm
…
I’d appreciate hearing which science classes I should’ve taken, to find out how things really work.
I spent 5 years getting a doctorate in biochemistry, but I don’t recall taking any science classes. Bad omission on my part. I still don’t understand how anything works.
=========================================
Your doctorate in biochemistry qualifies you to work on biochemical projects (e.g. WMD, etc.) but it would not get you an Architect or Structural Engineer degree or any license to design and construct skyscrapers.
There are thousands of people who took science classes to qualify as Architects and Engineers on skyscrapers.
They have the licenses, and have built them, designed, them, and worked on them (one of the “truthers” as you call them, worked on the twin towers as an official approving designs etc.).
I doubt that your input would be instructive to them in matters of skyscrapers made of steel, like their input would not be instructive to your endeavors in biochemistry or biowarfare.
One example out of thousands:
(Harry G. Robinson III, FAIA, AICP, NOMA). There are thousands of highly competent scientists in architecture and steel structural engineering who are “truthers”.
The shameful ad hominem displays of some here show intellectual bankruptcy or intellectual incest.
It is quite unbecoming of anyone claiming to be a critical thinker.
The man who was Commander of NATO is a Type A Conspiracy Nut to the official Type B Conspiracy Nuts:
(A Tale of Coup Cities – 2). He said he went to the Pentagon 10 days after 911 and was told that nobody was going to stop them from bombing whomever and where ever they wanted to. Nobody.
He goes on to explain that the wars we have seen were planned well before 911, “we are going to attack and destroy the governments of seven nations in five years” … so in ten days they had discovered seven nations were involved in 911? Or what? It had been planned earlier?
The Four Star General continued … “and then it came back to me … a meeting with Paul Wolfowitz … in 1991 … said … we need to clean up … Syria, Iran, Iraq …” (ten years before 911) … he goes on “this country was taken over by a … coup …”
It became The HOMELAND didn’t in?
We cannot distract ourselves with conspiracies. It is counterproductive.
What we CAN do is instead defend the Bill of Rights against the Fascists that are taking over both major political parties. That is the single issue we need to focus on. Ignore all the background noise and distractions.
So put all of that aside because it does sound crazy sometimes.
But what isnt crazy is the abuse and the very real threat to the Bill of Rights.
So speak up and stop Big Brother fascism. Speak only about policy that is directly affecting our liberties and FUTURE liberties. Do not give them ammo to label you as a crazy paranoid. Focus on the facts.
Like I tell other people. There is time later down the road to argue about social security, national healthcare, gays, abortion etc etc. For right now that is nothing but distraction issues for the Fascists while they strip our rights.
I do not know if there is any truth to the conspiracy theories but I do know that people like Bob Kauten are the true threat to our nations Bill of Rights. Blind arrogant fascism. He is the face of the new Neo Democrats.
Between people like Bob on the left and people like Rush Limbaugh on the right, this country is screwed. .
Richard,
Daddy loves you, too. Not best, but he still loves you.
I’m glad it doesn’t bother you, when I’m with your Mommy.
Now take your pills, like Daddy tells you.
See? The paranoids that are out to get you, just gradually fade away.
You’ll be strong enough to come out from under the bed, any day, now.
Then you can go to school, and Daddy will be so proud of you!
Saudi Arabia is also on the DHS Global Entry trusted traveler program also. “Travelers approved for the program can skip the normal Customs and Border Protection (CBP) lines starting next year and enter the country after providing their passports and fingerprints at a kiosk. Only Canada, Mexico, South Korea and the Netherlands currently enjoy the benefit”.
http://current.com/community/94080780_dhs-questioned-over-decision-to-let-saudi-passengers-skip-normal-passport-controls.htm
http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/3/9/2/5/9/1/godzilla-facepalm-47886290990.jpeg
I love Bob Kauten. He’s my daddy, because Daddy knows best. Daddy always makes me feel better when I wake up during a nightmare. Why? Daddy knows best. C’mon all of you, “make room for Daddy”. Over and out.
The TSA is letting airline passengers board planes while in possession of pocket knives. I dont know their position on box cutters. But, Jeso. It does not hurt to exclude them and it is dangerous to allow them.
Of course the old adage might apply:
Why change dicks in the middle of a screw, vote for Nixon in ’72.
This was all more about setting up a fascist Christian theocracy here at home (something Al Qaeda could never do) than about any war on terror! When I think back about how Hitler aligned himself with the orthodox Catholics in Bavaria in order to spearhead his nationalistic movement, I see similarities here in the U.S. One thing you can count on is that as the heat is slowly turned up and we begin to boil under this fascist New World Order, we will not en masse do anything until they declare Martial Law and march us off to FEMA camps (THEN IT WILL BE TOO LATE!).. NAFTA is helping in this endeavor, and the loss of sovereignty of nations will apply to the U.S. as well as the EU. One thing you can count on is that those who control the money supply, control governments. This is true of the Federal Reserve, as it is true of Brussels and the EU.
ccrider27, No offense (as in ‘I’m probably going to offend you with this but it’s not some kind of baseless attack) but one of the problems with making an argument for some kind of cover-up comes up when what should be settled information is dragged out as unresolved. Everybody knows what happened to #7. Silverstine (sp?) was on a TV show and said repeatedly that he gave the order to “pull it’ [down] due to safety concerns. For days after that there were news articles and TV speculation that that act might put any insurance claims he wanted to make in jeopardy. Silverstine was recanting by then: ‘I didn’t say it, it didn’t mean what it sounded like, I misspoke blah, blah, blah.’
The only possible question is who planted the explosives and when because a couple of likely suspects were interviewed afterward (one of them some public safety official from the city who would have had jurisdiction) and he said his people nor the people that he would consider authorized to place the explosives had done it. That’s an interesting loose end but unless you’re talking about that specifically I can’t see any question regarding #7.
All anyone had to do was watch TV to find out what happened. I may be missing something but I’ve never seen any question regarding ‘what about #7’.