Thirteen-Year-Old Girl Gang Raped In Pakistan . . . Village Elders Order Her Killed As “Black Virgin”

pakistanrapestoryWe have yet another story of a rape victim subjected to a demand for an honor killing in a traditional Muslim area. Kainat Soomro was gang-raped by four men at the age of 13. According to their religious and cultural traditions, her village classed her as a “Kari” or “black virgin” and ordered her killed. The family was attacked by the four men and other villagers and one of the sons was murdered after they refused to carry out the “honor” killing.

This nightmare unfolded in the rural village of Dadu in southern Pakistan and was chronicled in a new film “Outlawed in Pakistan.” Kainat was raped after walking home from school down a narrow village street. As she passed a shop owned by Shaban Saikh, he says that he and three other men including a father and son held her down and assaulted her. The rapists are accused of beating the father and one of her brothers and then the oldest brother disappeared (and was found murdered). This was all done in conformity with a bizarre religious code as a moral course of action.

The film shows how Kainat was faced with a hostile judge who attacked her for accusing a father and a son. The men were acquitted and she was found to lack “good character. If she was a decent woman, she would have sat at home, silent.”

Source: AU

81 thoughts on “Thirteen-Year-Old Girl Gang Raped In Pakistan . . . Village Elders Order Her Killed As “Black Virgin”

  1. where are those drones when you need them? I hope that this village gets visited by them sooner rather than later.

  2. Disgusting story. What goes through the minds of these people that they would allow the killing of a 13 year old victim? The men who perpetrated this heinous crime and the villagers and the judge, should rot in hell.

  3. The only way this is going to stop is for the Pakistani federal government to force the issue with the rule of law, justice for victims and a responsible judiciary. Sharia law is an oxymoron a best and at worst a convenient excuse to murder other persons. If this type of brutality was stopped maybe it would be a matter of time when the old coots of the past die off and a new, younger generation which has not been socialized into being raping murderers takes over.

    Raping, murdering, and using a broken system of justice to get away with it. What a depraved society these individuals there create.

  4. OH, yes, the “religion” of peace and love strikes again.

    But one should not condem anothers culture, there is room for all. There are no moral principles which guide human action just whatever the culture says is correct. Ah, democracy in its purest form, unrestrained by objective values or morality.

  5. Arthur, your drones would kill more than those responsible for this atrocity. Let’s keep the punishment in line with the crime.

  6. It’s no crime to kill people from the 6th Century… They should already be ‘DUST’.

  7. m:

    then why is it that only Muslims [maybe gang members do this stuff as well] do this type of thing?

  8. It isn’t “only Muslims.” Women and girls are blamed for their own rape in cultures around the world, regardless of religion. Not all are ordered to be put to death, but they suffer the misery of being told that somehow they brought their rape upon themselves. So get off your high horses, anti-Islamists.

  9. There are courts in this country that try the victim rather than the perpetrator/s.

    Consider the number of rapes in the US military that have been reported and nothing done while the victim must continue to serve under to her attacker or the commander who condoned it by doing nothing about it. Consider the number of rape victims, male and female who don’t report it b/c they know they will be blamed. It isn’t just some Muslims that do horrific things and get away with it.

    Finger pointing should only be done after a careful look in the mirror.

  10. Sometimes religions can create a kind of cultural insanity. Knowing how much I love my children it is unfathomable to me that these people would want to murder a child for something she is blameless in. It shows a hatred for women that is disgusting and also that these “manly men” are in truth not really men at all.

  11. Dear Kind Gentlemen,

    Please look no farther than your own country, where the victim of rape often does not report the crime because she knows she will be blamed. Many women in the US military have been assaulted, and demoted or had their pay docked, for reporting the rapes. I am appalled to read the suggestions that the backwards people in Pakistan should be bombed. The US government kills and disrupts societies in other countries, and are part of the cause of ignorant and superstitious brutality. How can a more just society be built there if Pakistani people are continually attacked? Are Americans who conduct drone strikes any less brutal than these poor villagers? Do you call for justice for those killed in US drone strikes, or do you condemn all Muslim people to death by simply sharing religion with these villagers? Should you receive rough justice to atone for the sins of other Christians and Jews?

  12. Rape is about power. An educated woman is far more powerful than one who is not. Attacking a school girl by raping her is one way of putting her in her place (as they see it) and serves to intimidate other girls who might want to increase their own power through education. It’s pitiful that so many men are so threatened.

    My own observations is that men, in general, want to accumulate power. They choose associates who will help them. They simply don’t trust women to help them accumulate more power, so they work to keep women from gaining any power on their own. I’ve seen it at home, in schools and in the work place. Examples fill the media.

    Every instance of rape is someone looking to increase his perception of his own power by diminishing hers.

  13. Well, the post is good. This is a heinous response to a very real rape, wherever it occurs. Linda should realize there are a lot of dingalings on these sites making ridiculous comments about religions & other things they know little about. These blogs do include rapes inside American borders too, but I thought the recent one trying to wring out that American producer 40 years later for statutory rape after he fled to France was relatively weak. Lets always discriminate between the good people & the criminally antisocial, no matter their religion.

  14. There are no words…but my word is Everyone’s Bill becomes due at the end of their life! As far as the military comment on sexual abuse via the military…this comment will not be popular…but women do not belong in the military…..Why…because men are attracted to women! Why do we keep insisting that sex is not really the issue!

  15. Jean, “Why…because men are attracted to women! Why do we keep insisting that sex is not really the issue!”

    Rape is always about power. There are men in the military who are threatened by the idea of women being there. If a woman says “no”, it is all about power, the power to force her to submit.

    If it were really about sex, seduction would be in order, not force.

  16. Bettykath. You just made my point! Yes sometimes it’s about power but sometimes it’s about sex! Which is why I believe women do not belong in the military. Rape in the military will stop when dogs stop licking themselves. You stated that men are threated by women in the military. Personally I think you are over thinking it, men aren’t that complicated…they just like curves….and sticking women in their wake is like putting a red flag in front of a bull…..they are just going o react. And it’s the women who get hurt…..Not Fair! But it is what it is.

  17. @ Jean: your comment is very annoying. For one, there is a pretty large group of raped victims within the military who are male. Secondly, why are you excusing some men who can’t keep it in their pants while many men in the military do manage to? Your comment only perpetuates the narrative that women don’t belong in the military while it’s clear that many of the women WANT to be in the military. It also perpetuates the narrative that ‘men will be men’. If the consequences for sexual harassment and other sex crimes were punished more seriously within the military, perhaps those supposed ‘bulls’ would be able to deal with those ‘red flags’. Oh vey, Jean!

  18. For those who mention to the effect of “well we should not be pointing our finger of blame to those in Pak who rape women and girls because we have issues here.”

    So, what are you saying. We should not bring up and protest these rapes because of the shortcomings of our justice system? Who will be left in this world to stand up for those girs? It certainly is not going to come from those who are doing the raping.

    How about doing something about both?

    And NO just because a person in the US who is accused of rape has a right under the Sixth Amendment “to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor” it is not in any way proportional to a woman / girl bring raped and murdered in another country.

  19. I would say the subjects of the “honor” killings should begin with the judge and the village idiots who blamed this poor child for her rape.

    I know that there is a reluctance to criticize a religion but if these religious leaders are using the religion to support their dictates. They must be deposed or the members of the religions cannot complain if people make this connection.

    Christian religious leaders are criticized and RIGHTLY SO for their vile and disgusting pronouncements and their unchristian like behavior. Muslim leaders who are vile should also be subject to such criticism.

  20. Simple Justice in Pakistan: Cut off the perp’s weenie and hang it, with his name on a tag tied around the end, at the local bus station bulletin board. With all of our technology in the world this should be carried out by a justice drone. Maybe over time more of you people will agree with my daily statements that this is Pirate Territory. A so called Nation State located in the Pirate Territory should not be given such recognition. East of Corfu the Ten Commandments Do Not Apply. Fly over and flush.

  21. sometimes i wish i was more religious so i could believe people who do things like this will get theirs in the end.

    but i’m not and tomorrow if a little girl gets raped in the next village over the “wise old elders” will react in the same way.

    so vent your spleens and get it out of your systems cause they’re our allies in the “war on terror”.

    with friends like these who needs enemas.

  22. Reply to Elsie; for heaven sake, I m not condoning,excusing ANY sexual misconduct. When I was a young girl I believed in the tooth fairy, I believed my parents would love and protect me. I believed in an altruistic life. But life is just not like that for the majority. Do I wish women could just serve in the military and men would be gentlemen and keep their big boy pants on…you bet ….but it won’t happen. It is not about perpetuating that men will be men therefore we must excuse horrid behavior for God sake. I am a strong believer in Jessica’s law. I also believe woman and men are equal but not the same and women do not belong in the military. The military by nature has to have a huge ego system that is necessary to kill and break stuff…add a female in the mix and your asking for trouble. I don’t have to like it…I just see it for what it is! I can just sit down and cry a river of tears for all the men who do not have courage and do what is right for this little girl who was so brutally assaulted in the WORST way possible weather here or in the east. If i did not believe in the deepest part of my soul that these dogs (no thats an insult to dogs) will have to face their maker i could not sleep tonight. You make some valid points no doubt…and Oh Vey back at you. LOL

  23. I’m sorry but those idiots need to re-write their moral code/family values. They need to start doing Lorena Bobbit jobs on the perps. The whole situation is one big power trip. The men who attack and the idiot elders and mullahs who are so afraid of the power of women that they have to hide, beat, rape and murder them just for existing and showing how men can be uncivilized animals. When will they see the truth – it isn’t a woman’s issue/problem. It is a men’s problem.

  24. Who are we to question the wisdom of Allah? As we are now entering the true Leftist State in full force, we must learn to submit to the all-powerful State. Now, many of you would prefer to have your Leftist State run by Communists, and others would prefer a Nazi regime. However, I feel that the Muslim State offers the best balance of total control, periodic atrocities, and the complete obliteration of all culture and civilization that are the hallmarks of the quintessential Leftist State.

    That’s why I support President Obama’s and Senator McCain’s efforts to arm the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Queda. This entire “Civilization” thing has gotten old, and we need to move forward with the next steps toward mass enslavement. I’m sure that all of you concur. I look forward to the next Presidential election between Hillary Clinton and Chris Christie, where Americans will have the “difficult” choice of a Leftist Democrat or a Leftist-RINO (Republican in Name Only). Sure, cynics will call that a Hobson’s choice. But they’re missing the whole point: in a Leftist State there ARE no choices.

  25. -she was found to lack “good character. If she was a decent woman, she would have sat at home, silent.”-

    It’s like these moral codes were written by ALEC

  26. The civilized world needs to start punishing these vicious pirate territories where civil rights are in the hands of the Imam or some dictator. Kick em out of the UN. Put em on a no fly zone unless you flush when you fly over. No trade with them. No immigration from those territories. If they want to treat their women like turds then we will treat their men as such. Pakistani men are definitely worse than Pitt Bulls. and there were many of you commenters in a previous blog who wish to outlaw Pittbulls.

  27. Nazi Fascism was a religion of sorts. We outlawed it after WWII so it would not get a resurgence. There would be nothing wrong with putting a stamp of shame on Islam and limit visitation and immigration on that basis. It is kind of like outlawing pitt bulls as so many commenters on this blog have spoken up for.

  28. Yeah, I never thought about it before because the humans have generally been good pals in my lifetime but if they are gonna outlaw pitt bulls then for Christ sake (no pun intended) outlaw all Muslims.

  29. If all pitt bulls are evil then there is nothing wrong with banning whole tribes of humans on the basis of their breed. East of Corfu the Ten Commandments Don’t Apply. Is that not the 11th Commandment? We have too many people in this country already who are unemployed and we don’t need more bent nose shmucks from Chechnia coming over here to live off of welfare and beat up their women.

  30. “They told me I am not a real man,” Kainat’s brother, Sabir tells the film-makers, Habiba Nosheen and Hilke Schellmann, “[that] you failed to follow your tradition, you failed to kill your sister.”


  31. Ralph Adamo:

    Chris Christie and Hillary Clinton? I would write in my dog for president.

    A man with no personal self restraint or an abused woman, what a choice that is.

  32. “The military by nature has to have a huge ego system that is necessary to kill and break stuff…add a female in the mix and your asking for trouble.”


    If your broad statements are true, I’m not sure they are, but say they are for arguments, then might we assume that woman would dampen down the men’s
    macho spirit. I certainly know that the women in my life have made me a better person.

  33. Mike Spindell:

    why would you want to dampen the fighting spirit of warriors?

    Isnt that a sure way to get them killed?

  34. “Mike Spindell:
    why would you want to dampen the fighting spirit of warriors?
    Isnt that a sure way to get them killed?”


    The way I see it is that we haven’t had a justifiable cause for military intervention in almost 73 years.

  35. Mike Spindell:

    “The way I see it is that we haven’t had a justifiable cause for military intervention in almost 73 years.”

    I cant say I disagree with you. Except I do think we should have done something to Al qeada and Bin Laden. I think 3-6 months would have been enough though.

  36. I guess that you forget or disagree with the First Gulf War which was autorized by the ENTIRE world as vested in the UN. I guess that it is OK to junk the UN and its charter according to you.

  37. “The military by nature has to have a huge ego system that is necessary to kill and break stuff”

    Even if this is true, which I doubt, why are women not capable of killing or breaking stuff? If a PERSON wants to serve in the military and meets the physical and mental requirements, are you suggesting that they should denied the ability to serve because of their anatomy? So that we can protect the ego of the military? This seems nonsensical to me: a veteran who served with a number of females whom I would proudly serve next to again given the opportunity. Military culture is the way it is precisely because of the stereotypes that you ARE perpetuating. The military is a professional institution, and should act like one. It is not a tax funded fraternity.

  38. “I guess that you forget or disagree with the First Gulf War which was autorized by the ENTIRE world as vested in the UN. I guess that it is OK to junk the UN and its charter according to you.”


    You’re right that I though the first Gulf War was a boondoggle with the U.S. acting as Hessians for the Saudi’s. While I’m old enough to remember the hopes that many had for the UN and acknowledge that some of its constituent organizations (like WHO for instance) do good work, as a whole I believe that it is an ineffective and hypocritical organization. The U.N. backing of the 1st Gulf War was to give a cover to what was an operation to negate Iraq’s power in the ME. After two Gulf Wars do you really believe that Iraq and the ME are in better condition. Saddam was a vile autocrat leading his country’s oligarchy, but then so are the Saudi’s; the Oligarchy ruling Iran; President Morsi of Egypt; the moron in N. Korea; the ruling class in China; the military oligarchy in Pakistan; and so on and so forth. At least in Saddam’s Iraq women had a modicum of civil rights and the society was secular. The selective vilification of certain nations is never about their rulers and the oppression of their people and always about what profit can be gained from their overthrow.

  39. All these people attacking Islam (once again) because of the acts of “some”., yeah!, we’ve had never heard of catholics, christians or any other religion rapists right?….When have you heard of a priest raping a boy?….never!!!!…just in Islam happens this right?….just muslims do these kind of horrid things, not followers of other religions do or have ever done nothing like this before!….For God’s sake!!!!!….all rapist should be gone for good!, no tolerance! “regarless of what RELIGION the follow”….if they do of course!….Oops!…sorry, I forgot, what should we do with Priests?….or should we leave that one alone?., let’s concentrate on the muslims?…..God!!!!

  40. The only “culture” in Pakistan is a culture of violence that religion legitimizes.

    In the western countries, if someone rapes children, they get arrested, and a lot of vigilantes utter threats about “kill him without trial”, and other prisoners try to assault the rapist behind bars.

    I’m not agreeing with vigilantism. I’m pointing out the direction the threats are aimed is not at the victims, but at the perpetrators (unless you live in Steubenville or the University of North Carolina).

  41. Obviously Smith’s never been there or known several Pakistanis. Sure, this is worse than Paki-bashing by those skinhead retards in England thirty years ago, but I can tell you there are millions more good Muslim Pakistanis & good Hindu Indians than there are evil people who attack the wrong side. If this is the same vitriolic Smith, then he might fit this latter characteristic himself.

  42. Mike S, I see that you don’t concern yourself with facts of the case in the first Gulf War. The UN is a military alliance first and foremost which is supposed to provide collective security to its member nations. In FACT the UN is what our side was called in WWII, and as part of the UN Charter it stated that the first order of business for the UN is to defeat Japan. So when a full member nation as Kuwait is was invaded by another country, the UN is REQUIRED by its charter to come to the military defense of that nation which is a victim of that aggression. The first Gulf War had nothing to do with Saudi Arabia other than after Kuwait, Saudis were probably next on Husseins hit list.

    The second Gulf War was opposed by Saudis and most other countries in the world and was against the UN. The US while it did not have justification for the invasion, it fell short of being labelled the aggressor for the simple reason that Iraq had violated the terms of its treaty obligations. So at worst the US fell into a grey area in its role.

    I think that the UN has been too slow in reacting to genocide and the internal affairs of member countries. The Rwanda catastrophe is a prime example of this failure. I can understand the reason the UN could not and would not get involved since it would require a major revision of its charter to do so. At least the laterst Sec. Generals have stated that they are open to intervening militarily in such situations now. So the first Gulf War had nothing whatsoever to do with the internal regime of Iraq which is why Hussein was left in power. I think that was a mistake since the UN could have done and would have done a FAR better job than the US did alone. The US only had 60% of the troops while in the last one it was 90%. At least if the UN had gone into Bagdad, they would have had a better shot at keeping the peace and truly liberating Iraq since they would have had the manpower, and the language skills with the divisions of Egypt, Syria, and Saudis being there to keep order. Even Bush might have had a chance if he had listened to the US Army about how many troops were needed. Unfortunately, Rumsfeld thought that being a Navy flight instructor made him a military genius and went in way too light in troops. Then after they got their asses kicked, then they decided they needed more troops. Which was locking the barn door after the horse are gone.

  43. “Mike S, I see that you don’t concern yourself with facts of the case in the first Gulf War. The UN is a military alliance first and foremost which is supposed to provide collective security to its member nations. In FACT the UN is what our side was called in WWII, and as part of the UN Charter it stated that the first order of business for the UN is to defeat Japan. So when a full member nation as Kuwait is was invaded by another country, the UN is REQUIRED by its charter to come to the military defense of that nation which is a victim of that aggression. The first Gulf War had nothing to do with Saudi Arabia other than after Kuwait, Saudis were probably next on Husseins hit list”


    I’m well aware of the facts you mention. Since I am as old, or older than you I grew up with the UN as a major presence in my life/education, since I lived in NYC. I was perhaps seven when my class visited the UN and I was blown away by what I thought was its significance in the world. As I grew and as my education progressed I began to understand how limited and political the UN was as an organization. As a Jew, who was/is a supporter of Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish State my discomfit with the UN increased. When Egypt expropriated the Suez Canal in 1956 and refused to allow traffic through it shipping to Israel (against a UN ruling), Israel attacked (having been in a continual State of War w/Egypt since 1947 when Egypt attacked them) and was aided by Great Britain and France. The US, led by Secretary of State John Foster Dulles (A banker who had helped finance Hitler’s rise to power with his brother Allen then the head of the CIA) condemned the attack and stopped it.

    After that UN “peacekeeping” troops were stationed on the borders ostensibly to prevent war. In 1967 when Egypt, Jordan, Syria and other Arab nations attacked Israel, the UN “peacekeepers” withdrew and Israel was forced to defend itself. This has been the case with UN “peacekeepers” throughout the world. The UN has become a debating society when it comes to world affairs and as a body exercises little initiative that doesn’t come from various spheres of influence. During the Cold War it was the US sphere of influence vs. the USSR/China sphere of influence. It is the same today except that the influence pertains more to the economic as Corporate interests dominate the constituent countries. If you’ve forgotten Saddam Hussein was our “ally” in the ME up until that first Gulf War. That he had acted more independently in the years leading up to Kuwait, had rankled the Washington Foreign Policy establishment, which had supported his war with Iran. It is a fact that in the months before his invasion he had discussed the policy with the then US ambassador to Iran who had told him words to the effect that the US would remain neutral. It was all a set up to weaken his power and independence. Also to in the ways of international politics there was some validity to his claim that Kuwait should be Iraqi territory.

    In international affairs, where the Bush Family has any part, you can bet that it isn’t in the interest of fairness, justice and democracy. The UN being brought in was a cover to give the appearance of righteousness to another sordid war.

  44. Mike S All I can say is WOW! I have never seen such an outright falsification of history and rationalizations in a long time. First to my point which you did not refute which is that the UN had an obligation to support Kuwait that it had to fulfill. If you recall your history, WWII started in 1935 when Italy invaded Ethiopia and the League of Nations did nothing at all in support of that poor country. After seeing the non performance of the League and the other powers, Hitler marched into the Rheinland of Germany and put his military there, against the treaty provisions. Then he proceeded step by step on his conquests and demands. I thought it was quite fitting that Etheopia was on the Security council when that vote was taken to use force against Iraq. It was a sweet vindication for them I am sure.

    As for your contention that Kuwait should have been part of Iraq, it simply shows your ignorance of history since Kuwait existed LONG before Iraq was constructed after WWI. Kuwait was semi-independent even under the Ottoman Empire and paid dues to it. They wanted out, so they asked the Brits to come in and take them as a protectorate LONG before WWI. I guess you think that any country that does not meet Israel’s specifications does not deserve to exist.

    You also fail to make your case for the US being the Hessians for Saudis, since the Saudis opposed the second Gulf War. How then does that square with your contention? You must also believe that the US started the war with Japan and that the Japanese were justified in attacking Pearl Harbor since FDR cut off 80% of their oil supplies. Israel has access to the Med and the Red Sea so they have no need for the Suez canal in any case. So the 1956 war was simply Isreali aggression.The Brits and the French DID NEED the Suez canal since most of their communications and supplies went through it for their Far Eastern colonies as did all of their oil. You have a point in that the UN has not enforced any of its resolutions against Israel, nor forced its compliance since the US has vetoed any such measures. So you are right in that politics does matter in deciding who to support. At least the UN does abide by its charter and does not go off to war without the Security Councils OK.

    I was stationed in Turkey for the Sic Day War when Israel did a sneak attack on Egypt and Jordan and wiped out their Air Forces. I got to see the F-104s the US pulled out of Jordan before the attack What the US did not pull out the Israeli Air Force finished off. That was another act of aggression on the part of Israel, but since Israel did not take over and liquidate Egypt and the fact that the US would not allow the UN to act against Israel, they got away with it. In fact, there has only been one war in which Israel was not the aggressor, and that is the Yom Kipur war in which Israel was attacked first. I suggest you read a very good book on the IDF which is called the Sword and the Olive. It details all the facts of the establishment of the IDF and the various wars.

    In any case, you still have not proved your contentions nor have you justified the UN NOT enforcing it rules militarily.

  45. “First to my point which you did not refute which is that the UN had an obligation to support Kuwait that it had to fulfill”


    I answered your point by explaining that the UN charter is a document that has no effective standing in International Law, since it is invoked or not depending upon the politics of the situation. While your point is correct in terms of the charter, it lacks meaning simply because the politics always trumps the responsibility.

    “As for your contention that Kuwait should have been part of Iraq, it simply shows your ignorance of history since Kuwait existed LONG before Iraq was constructed after WWI.”

    You misquote me, I said:

    “Also to in the ways of international politics there was some validity to his claim that Kuwait should be Iraqi territory.”

    That there was some validity to the claim is backed up here:

    Like much in the ME the people’s there have long memories and traditions that were ignored in the Western world during its overtly imperialistic phase. The political situation is a muddied one an yet specifically because of oil the industrial world has great interest in meddling there. Also there is this:

    “On 25 July 1990, the U.S. Ambassador in Iraq, April Glaspie, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border.

    The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, “inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion” on the disagreement between Kuwait and Iraq, stating “we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts.”

    She also let Saddam Hussein know that the U.S. did not intend “to start an economic war against Iraq”. These statements may have caused Saddam to believe he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait.[20][21]

    According to Prof. Richard E. Rubenstein, Glaspie was later asked by British journalists why she had said that, her response was “we didn’t think he would go that far” meaning invade and annex the whole country. Although no follow-up question was asked, one might assume that what the U.S. government thought in July 1990 was that Saddam Hussein was only interested in pressuring Kuwait into debt forgiveness and to lower oil production.”

    Then you went on to misquote me again:

    “You also fail to make your case for the US being the Hessians for Saudis, since the Saudis opposed the second Gulf War. How then does that square with your contention?”

    What I said related specifically to the question of the first Gulf War as shown below in my response to Randyjet.

    “You’re right that I thought the first Gulf War was a boondoggle with the U.S. acting as Hessians for the Saudi’s. While I’m old enough to remember the hopes that many had for the UN and acknowledge that some of its constituent organizations (like WHO for instance) do good work, as a whole I believe that it is an ineffective and hypocritical organization.”

    You’re simply wrong about the Suez War and it comes from the redefinition of history that has been spread about the ME and Israel, mostly funded by the Saudi’s. Finally, though you usually don’t seem naive you certainly are in this quote below:

    “At least the UN does abide by its charter and does not go off to war without the Security Councils OK.”

    Members of the Union Security Council:

    “There are 15 members of the Security Council. This includes five veto-wielding permanent members—China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States—based on the great powers that were the victors of World War II. There are also 10 non-permanent members, with five elected each year to serve two-year terms. This basic structure is set out in Chapter V of the UN Charter. The current non-permanent members are Argentina, Australia, Azerbaijan, Guatemala, Luxembourg, Morocco, Pakistan, Rwanda, South Korea, and Togo.”

    Seriously Arthur, do you really think that any of the five permanent and 10 non-permanent members of the Security Council are not political entities who are more interested in their own national interests, rather than the cause of truth and justice? If you do then I commend your nobility of thought, but discount your insight on this question.

    As far as your contentions about Israel go it all comes down to whether or not you believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish State. If you don’t, then I can understand your view of the events. Mine is different and I am no less a student of history than you are. To my mind there was ample justification for Israel attacking first against the vastly larger, massed armies of the Arab States, which by their own admission were in a continual “state of war” with Israel since Israel’s birth as a nation. If you believe, however, that the existence of Israel is a provocation, then I suppose from that mindset it was a dastardly deed. I’ve found from debating this topic for too many years with people that it is a fruitless proposition, so I shantcontinue this here.

    To return though to my original point were I the parent of a person in the U.S. Armed Forces I wouldn’t have wanted my child to be put into harms way in the First Gulf War, since I don’t believe the interests of the U.S. were involved, unless you define interests as “serving the economic needs of the Oil Lobby”.

  46. Interesting what this post has moved into now. Not a bad recent history lesson. While you are knocking the UN, I don’t say you shouldn’t, but not without knocking our dreadful US federal government who brought us 9/11, lies & whitewash about it, the Patriot Act & Obama’s disolving of even basic rights like the Magna Carta since he took office, provided only a declaration of emergency is made, presumably after he’s decreased the citizens’ stockpile of weapons. Decades ago I was a member of the John Birch Society. Like the NRA, they have done a lot in the past to retain some of our freedoms, but they always lost me on their “Get US out of the UN!” campaign. Sure, there were times we might have contributed less tax dollars but the US has got worse & worse; the UN is more ambivalent & may have improved a little since the Belgian Congo days.

  47. My God. These are the most racist comments I have ever, ever read. It’s actually worse than the British press in their colonialist heyday. You might as well call them niggers (censor that one Constitutional law professor, though you say as much). Way to go liberal intellectuals! Indeed, the post itself is more than a bit racist, pushing the assumption about muslim culture and “barbarity” through the story. Not surprising for the American academic culture, no doubt. It just shows how backward, dumb and racist American “intellectual” culture actually is. And you call them barbarians!

    I know something about Pakistan. How many Pakistanis do you know? Ever been to the country? Know its history? There’s more culture, sophistication, and civilization in one Pakistani peasant than in all these commentators combined. The commentators and the blogger obviously knows very little, and have /has no actual desire to know any more. You are aware that YOU and I (as Americans) are bombing them indiscriminately where there is no declared war, killing women and children with ZERO due process and mostly in secrecy. Picking up this type of story and building up the stereotype of the barbarian other sub-human is of course part of that general strategy. It’s the liberal ideological component to global war. Way to go! Way to be WORSE than the british colonialist racist. Quite an achievement, actually.

  48. oh boy, that pbs link made me cry and feel so sorry for people who are born there and have to live there….

  49. I see that you do not know that the most illiterate, ignorant peasant in that village has more culture than all of us. If you run into such a person, more than likely they are illiterate since the literacy rate for Pakistan is overall, 57% and for women far less. I guess that keeping women illiterate is part of that sophisticated culture Ali loves so much. Then of course rape and punishing the victim is a good thing since one can then claim that rape does not exist in that “sophisticated” culture. You are also a racist for pointing this out and worse than the British. Then I find it astounding that one has to get an attorney to prosecute this case, while in our uncultured West have the state to do that.

    As for British colonialism, I have no sympathy since my ancestors were the victims of that too, and they were quite actively killing the Redcoats. I DO have to note that there were some good features of that colonialsim, such as bringing in advanced technology in the form of railroads, paved streets, and a pretty good infrastructure. They also forced the end of slavery in the region. Though I do have to note that Muslim countries were the last on Earth to abolish slavery, and had NO abolitionist movement. In fact Saudi Arabia formally only got rid of it in 1962 and the last Muslim state got rid of it in 1982. That is NOT a good record for Muslims on that subject. I see that Ali does not know the proper British term for niggers, it is wogs, so I doubt he has much knowledge of British colonialism or racism. Thus he shows himself to be as ignorant and bigoted as he accuses all of us to be.

    Of course, if you think that slavery and rape are good things, then I can see how some militant Muslims might well be offended at our looking down on such practices. I fact, I think that any nation or group is perfectly justified in using military force to end slavery. I guess Ali forgets that we lost over 3,000 people to fundamentalist Muslim fanatics. We will stop killing them after they take measures to stop killing us in our homes and businesses.

  50. Keep in mind that billions of your tax dollars are being paid to Pakistan government which supports these butchers.

  51. Actually it is those butchers who are the targets of the drone strikes for the most part. The Pakistan government does not have a lot of control over those areas, and does not want to spend the lives and money it would take to bring them under control. So they are perfectly happy to have the US blow them up and hopefully out of this world.

  52. BETTY how do you punish the guilty since you are so against drones? This girl will have no justice EVER.

  53. I’m not particularity fond of Organized Fundamentalist religion (which includes Islam). However, I’m really curious where Jonathan sourced his information. I did some digging, which I’m fond of doing, and found a particularly DIFFERENT version of events, using Jonathan’s on links.

    It appears that people (mainly us Americans) are jumping to false conclusions based on false speculations and prejudices. This particular case has NOTHING to do with Honor Killings. Kainat Soomro refuses to drop her appeal on the original 4 rapists (which included a Father and sons). In American-esque thug-style they attacked her family and property to get her to shut-up and drop the appeal. Evidently they paid the first judge off forcing Kainat to appeal.

    The first judge actually tried to say that since the Father/Son rapist team was like a family unit Kainat should not have pressed charges originally! But she is strong-willed and did not stop the appeal. She went on to file MORE charges for the attack on her family. However, I believe this case is 3 years old now (judging from the articles date). Do not know the outcome.

    Honor killings are NOT part of a religious dogma.Islam, Buddhism, nor Hinduism teach any such barbarism. Just like Christian Fundamentalists they criminal extremists who do Honor Killings are misinterpreting their sacred scriptures and launching into some sort of insane act of violence not supported by their clerics; much like the Christian Fundies who bomb Abortion clinics in USA?

  54. Look FYI the only reason Mr. Obama is authorizing CIA drone strikes in Pakistan is because President Asif Ali Zardari will drag his feet and lie to us about what he is doing about enemies of the U.S. state who find shelter there. He lied about UBL (Abbotabad) and others. So Mr. Obama sends in armed preds (I think General Atomics MQ-1’s with AGM-114 hell-fire missiles) to surgically pick off targets of opportunity. Albeit, I am baffled why we use an intelligence gathering paramilitary entity (i.e. CIA) rather than a US armed forces entity (USAF, USN, Marines, etc.) for command & control. I guess the innovator who invented this particular technique back in the day (John O. Brennan) is now sitting at the CIA helm (with his fembot warmongers surrounding him (LOL)).

  55. Typical male dominance & control of women, treating women as sub-human and only the use & property of men, this is a serious violation of human rights and they only want more human rights abuses regarding the fate of this poor woman???!!! It’s sickness gone mad, it’s no wonder some people will only view them as animals because they are behaving like them, with all the dressings of *Ritualistic* form for compliance of a community to murder an assaulted woman. I would think had it been the brother that got raped instead of this 13 year old girl ( A child ), they would not be demanding such an *Honour Killing* as they call it, there is no honour in execution full stop, there is certainly no honour in oppressed, controlled and victimized females, this is an absolute OUTRAGE to humanity.

  56. Sharia Law is an insult to equality of the female, it’s another excuse for oppression and diminished rights of the female.

  57. Army Chaplain Gets Six Months in Sex Case
    Jun 24, 2013| by Richard Sisk

    The wave of sexual assaults and harassment that the high command has described as a “crisis” for the military has now reached into the Chaplains Corps.
    At Fort Bliss, Tex., last week, Maj. Geoffrey Alleyne, a chaplain and 24-year Army veteran, was sentenced by a court-martial jury to six months in jail for repeatedly groping a civilian employee at the West Texas base.
    Following the conviction and sentencing the victim in the case went public to charge that her long-standing complaints about Alleyne’s attempts to fondle and kiss her were initially ignored by base officials and other chaplains. “He might have been sentenced and going to jail but I lost,” Michelle Ten Eyck told KFOX 14 news in El Paso, Texas.
    Ten Eyck said her experience led her to believe that the military justice system is incapable of dealing with the wave of sexual assaults, harassment and unwanted sexual contacts. She said that legal authority in sex abuse cases should be taken out of the chain of command.
    Earlier this month lawmakers from both parties in both houses of Congress offered bills that would have transferred a commander’s authority to convene courts martial and refer charges in sexual assault cases to military prosecutors in the Judge Advocate Generals corps. The Senate Armed Services Committee voted against the bill filed by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., while the House version, proposed by Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii, was killed when the Rules Committee kept it from going to the House floor.
    Ten Eyck told the El Paso television station that military education programs are not enough.
    “In Washington, they think that … just retraining people is gonna’ make it better. They need to take all of this out of the military hands,” she said.

  58. This culture is not an islamic culture at all, and the people who odered the girl to be killed did not follow islamic law at all, i a muslim and i know sharia law, this law is not an islamic or shari’a law at all, it is just a lie, they made it happen only to insult muslim and islam.

  59. General Accused of Sex Assault Wants Panetta Email
    Jun 26, 2013

    RALEIGH, N.C. – Lawyers representing a U.S. Army general facing sexual assault charges are asking a military judge to force prosecutors to turn over any e-mails related to the case sent or received by former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.
    A court martial is set to begin next month at Fort Bragg for Brig. Gen. Jeffrey Sinclair on charges including forcible sodomy, indecent acts, violating orders and adultery.
    In a motion filed Tuesday as part of a pre-trial hearing, lawyers for Sinclair argue top Pentagon brass were receiving regular updates last year on the investigation and may have encouraged subordinates to make an example of Sinclair. They are also seeking any minutes from any meetings about the case attended by Panetta, then the military’s top civilian leader.
    It is unlawful in the military justice system for senior commanders to interfere in prosecutorial decisions and Sinclair’s lawyers are seeking to have the case against him dismissed.
    Two of Sinclair’s commanders, Gen. Dan Allyn and Maj. Gen. Jeffrey Colt, testified at a hearing earlier this month that there was no such pressure. Both generals testified they relied solely on their best judgment in deciding to charge and prosecute Sinclair.
    In a separate motion, meanwhile, Sinclair’s lawyers sought to have some of the general’s own emails suppressed at trial.

  60. Chris Marquis, if you’re referring to Roman Polanski, that was a “very real rape” too, and not weak at all. A girl that young can’t give consent. Let’s stop splitting hairs over what’s “real” rape and what’s not.

  61. And Jean, you’re just as bad. You think women shouldn’t be in the military because it is just a sad, sorrowful fact of life that men simply cannot control themselves when it comes to wanting to rape women. What that says about your opinion of men, or at least men with enough “ego” to be in the military, is not very good. It also says that you think that women need to restricted and kept out of certain opportunities in life because men cannot be trusted not to rape them, hence they need to be kept out of the military to “protect” them. This is ridiculous. We can set expectations for men’s behavior. There is nothing wrong with expecting them to be able to conduct themselves decently enough to NOT RAPE. We may never live in a rape-free world, but we can at least strive for one, instead of throwing up our hands in despair and saying “It’s like wishing for the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny to expect men not to rape!”

  62. OK, this is absolute bullshit. A young innocent school girl trying to better her life was brutally gang raped and those IDIOTIC, FOOLISH, STUPID, DUMB ASSES wants to kill her. What the hell is going on? Why is she been punished? Isn’t she the victim? Shouldn’t she get justice for this? Is there a government in that county? Why aren’t they doing nothing? To the handful of those Muslims who think killing takes them closer to there god or to heaven or whatever they believe, I have news for you, U PEOPLE ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL!!!!! The government needs to do something about because this is just wrong. Kill her, that’s just wrong on so many levels.

  63. This girl’s family stuck up for her-Pakistan is corrupt and IRRELIGIOUS and allows ancient cultural traditions to trump their religion. There are truly practicing, educated Muslims there,but there is mostly a culture of ancient tradition,far predating any current religion. This was not an “honor killing”. The family knew that there was no sin on the girl. The family was pursuing justice. Unfortunately, for most in Pakistan, there is no justice. This was all about corrupt men.

  64. Shelly, this was about corrupt government, not religion-not sharia OR honor killing. The family of the girl was silenced! The entire family was abused by the local system and it had NOTHING to do with their religion. The family stuck up for her. You all are missing that this is just about corruption and power by local men. There is a lot more to this than the rape and murder of that little girl. The govt. of Pakistan needs to reform and bring some real justice and a real justice system to the small villages as well as the big cities. My husband is Pakistani and comes from a place that is not fully corrupt, but that is just luck of the draw there and he knows it.

  65. Boston bombing, cinema attack during batman premiere and bombing near university in US all were individual acts but when it comes to Pakistan, this is all interpreted as religion. in US alone 84000 girls and boys were raped in 2010. Dont believe me? google it before posting trash. So shall I call this ‘benefits of peaceful Christianity’ or ‘benefits of open mindedness’? I am confused, help me out. it is so sad to see all ‘so called’ educated and open minded people of the world have such biased opinions. Please do us all a favor and keep your opinions to yourself. World needs a collective effort to fight horrible crimes like this. Nothing will change if you keep on blaming societies and religion for this.

  66. Many of these ‘individual acts’ in the USA ARE linked; by Psychiatry & Psychiatric drugs. Psychiatry is a soul-less religion; actually a political tool for governments & Big Brother, though there will not be much sympathy for that correct viewpoint on these Turley sites, as many bloggers are already appologists for Psychiatry or psychiatrists themselves. Psychiatry Germany admitted their indispensible role in the Nazi Holocaust for the first time, just last year.

  67. to all who are reading this article, firstly the low life scum that commit these crimes , are LOW LIFE SCUM! they do it because thats what they are! not because they are muslim, or because they are pakistani or because they are male/female! purely because they are filthy scum!!! honnor killings do not exist in islam, only in the mind of low lifes like these! i have so many muslim friends ,and what i read here about islam is a joke! you need to educate yourself and don’t follow blindly! if these pathetic idiots knew an ounce of their religion , they wouldn’t of committed this sick crime! islam treats women like queens , not like our women, half naked, so drunk they dont have a clue whose sleeping next to them! and what respect do they get? none! they are passed from man to man, degraded, drooled over, the muslim women don’t need to display their beauty for men to drool over . its too precious to pass around! they only need to show that beauty to whom THEY please , not every tom dick and bloody harry!! so please, go educate yourself!!

  68. trish? muslims do not believe killing people will take them to heaven, my word , you people are so stupid! how many people are accepting islam ? day after day you here of someone accepting islam , you think they would be doing this if islam was what you people think it is? its scary to think that people like you and others on here are walking the streets, what do you do when you pass a muslim? i dread to think…

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