What Happened to Michael Hastings?

Submitted By: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger

Michael_Hastings_election_night_2012As erudite and informed as I pretend to be, the fact is that there is much that is important that I either miss, or fail to see any significance in. The death of investigative reporter Michael Hastings showed me that because my first reaction to the news flash was “who is Michael Hastings?” Reading further into the story I discovered that he was the reporter who brought down General William McChrystal and that he was considered to be one of America’s premier investigative journalists. As I read that original story, the thought occurred to me that possibly Hastings’s death in an auto “accident” was not simply a case of reckless driving, but I initially dismissed that as merely the operation of my cynical mindset.  Nevertheless, the thought nagged at the back of my consciousness and then I saw a story on http://whowhatwhy.com/ , my favorite investigative website, run by the renowned Russ Baker. The stories title: “The Michael Hastings Wreck-Video Evidence Offers a few Clues”     http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/07/14/the-michael-hastings-wreck-video-evidence-offers-a-few-clues/

For my own benefit and perhaps yours, I’ve done a little research into who Michael Hastings was and what he did that deserves attention. I explore the possibility that his death was no accident. I admit that I have no proof beyond speculation. Hopefully I can give you enough information to make your own judgments. In a world where American Presidents openly arrogate to themselves the right to kill people deemed enemies of the United States, all things suddenly become possible. When the basic right of habeas corpus can be denied to American citizens, based upon unproven allegations of their being threats to this country, isn’t it possible for those with the power to detain and to eliminate individuals, to make decisions as to someone’s existence doing harm to this country? Finally, doesn’t this unconstitutional expansion of powers give individuals with government connections the leeway to take revenge on those who expose them? While I’m not privy to knowledge of the actions of those in power and can claim no inside information, I certainly can speculate based on the experience of my lifetime. This then is my speculation about the death and life of Michael Hastings in the context of current life in these United States.

At about 4:30am a man driving a Mercedes swerved off of the straight as an arrow North Highland Avenue, in Los Angeles and into a Palm Tree. It is known that the man was driving at a high rate of speed. That man was:

“Michael Mahon Hastings (January 28, 1980 – June 18, 2013) an American journalist, author, contributing editor to Rolling Stone, and reporter for BuzzFeed.[4] He was raised in New York, Canada, and Vermont, and attended New York University. Hastings rose to prominence with his coverage of the Iraq War for Newsweek in the 2000s. After his fiancee, Andrea Parhamovich, was killed when her car was ambushed in Iraq, Hastings wrote his first book, I Lost My Love in Baghdad: A Modern War Story (2008), a memoir about his relationship with Parhamovich and the violent insurgency that took her life.”

“He received the George Polk Award for “The Runaway General” (2010), a Rolling Stone profile of General Stanley McChrystal, commander of NATO‘s International Security Assistance Force in the Afghanistan war. The article documented the widespread contempt for civilian officials in the US government by the general and his staff and resulted in McChrystal’s resignation. Hastings followed up with The Operators (2012), a detailed book account of his month-long stay with McChrystal in Europe and Afghanistan.

Hastings became a vocal critic of the surveillance state during the investigation of reporters by the US Department of Justice in 2013, referring to the restrictions on the freedom of the press by the Obama administration as a “war” on journalism.[5] His last story, “Why Democrats Love To Spy On Americans”, was published by BuzzFeed on June 7.[6] Hastings died in a fiery high-speed automobile crash on June 18, 2013 in Los Angeles, California.[7]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_%28journalist%29

It is of course possible that Michael Hastings death was an accident and that he was merely driving too fast on the wrong road. The WhoWhatWhy article linked above looks into the accident and I think fairly concludes that foul play was possible, but certainly not proven. We do know from Hastings’s friends that in the days before his death he felt he was being harassed our government:

“Earlier the previous day, Hastings indicated that he believed he was being investigated by the FBI. In an email to colleagues, which was copied to and released by Hastings’ friend, Army Staff Sergeant Joe Biggs,[45] Hastings said that he was “onto a big story”, that he needed to “go off the radar”, and that the FBI might interview them.[46][47] WikiLeaks announced that Hastings had also contacted one of its lawyers a few hours prior to the crash,[48] and the LA Times reported that he was preparing new reports on the CIA at the time of his demise.[49] The FBI released a statement denying that Hastings was being investigated.[44]

Hastings was eulogized by co-workers at Buzzfeed,[50] media figures such as Christopher Hayes[51] and Rachel Maddow[52] and others.[53]

According to Biggs, Hastings’ remains were cremated and returned to Vermont. Biggs stated that his family did not want Hastings to be cremated. Los Angeles medical examiner and police authorities indicated that it took two days to identify Hastings because he had been burned beyond recognition, and that the cause of death was undetermined, pending the results of an autopsy and toxicology tests.[54] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist

We probably will never know what CIA stories Michael Hastings was working on before he died in that auto crash, or if indeed the FBI was investigating him, but given all that we have learned and are beginning to learn about the excessive use of government powers both by civilian and military intelligence, is it possible that Hastings was deemed a “threat” to our country and eliminated? Were I not a young adult in the 60’s I might have banished that type of idea with dismissive disdain. However, as I have written before, the assassinations of the 60’s and the murders at Kent State, have taught me to not be dismissive of the possibilities of conspiratorial actions by some with present or past connections to government. http://jonathanturley.org/2012/03/17/a-real-history-of-the-last-sixty-two-years/ and: http://jonathanturley.org/2012/10/27/murder-at-kent-state/

Hastings’ article that led to the McChrystal dismissal is a detailed and nuanced story of a tough, Spartan-like General: “McChrystal is reported to run 7 to 8 miles daily, eat one meal per day, and sleep four hours a night.”  The General and his hand-picked staff had disdain for civilian leadership and basically he was given carte blanche by the President, who the General felt he had cowed in their meetings together. If you read it, as linked below, it seems a fair appraisal of the man and those men who he surrounded himself with.

“Even though he had voted for Obama, McChrystal and his new commander in chief failed from the outset to connect. The general first encountered Obama a week after he took office, when the president met with a dozen senior military officials in a room at the Pentagon known as the Tank. According to sources familiar with the meeting, McChrystal thought Obama looked “uncomfortable and intimidated” by the roomful of military brass. Their first one-on-one meeting took place in the Oval Office four months later, after McChrystal got the Afghanistan job, and it didn’t go much better. “It was a 10-minute photo op,” says an adviser to McChrystal. “Obama clearly didn’t know anything about him, who he was. Here’s the guy who’s going to run his fucking war, but he didn’t seem very engaged. The Boss [McChrystal] was pretty disappointed.” This was a statement from one of McChrystal’s aides.

“As McChrystal leaned on Obama to ramp up the war, he did it with the same fearlessness he used to track down terrorists in Iraq: Figure out how your enemy operates, be faster and more ruthless than everybody else, then take the fuckers out. After arriving in Afghanistan last June, the general conducted his own policy review, ordered up by Defense Secretary Robert Gates. The now-infamous report was leaked to the press, and its conclusion was dire: If we didn’t send another 40,000 troops – swelling the number of U.S. forces in Afghanistan by nearly half – we were in danger of “mission failure.” The White House was furious. McChrystal, they felt, was trying to bully Obama, opening him up to charges of being weak on national security unless he did what the general wanted. It was Obama versus the Pentagon, and the Pentagon was determined to kick the president’s ass.” This was Michael Hastings’s interpretation based on his access to General McChrystal and his team.

Below was Hastings assessment of the staff and culture that McChrystal surrounded himself with as taken from an evening in Paris:

“The general’s staff is a handpicked collection of killers, spies, geniuses, patriots, political operators and outright maniacs. There’s a former head of British Special Forces, two Navy Seals, an Afghan Special Forces commando, a lawyer, two fighter pilots and at least two dozen combat veterans and counterinsurgency experts. They jokingly refer to themselves as Team America, taking the name from the South Park-esque sendup of military cluelessness, and they pride themselves on their can-do attitude and their disdain for authority. After arriving in Kabul last summer, Team America set about changing the culture of the International Security Assistance Force, as the NATO-led mission is known. (U.S. soldiers had taken to deriding ISAF as short for “I Suck at Fighting” or “In Sandals and Flip-Flops.”) McChrystal banned alcohol on base, kicked out Burger King and other symbols of American excess, expanded the morning briefing to include thousands of officers and refashioned the command center into a Situational Awareness Room, a free-flowing information hub modeled after Mayor Mike Bloomberg’s offices in New York. He also set a manic pace for his staff, becoming legendary for sleeping four hours a night, running seven miles each morning, and eating one meal a day. (In the month I spend around the general, I witness him eating only once.) It’s a kind of superhuman narrative that has built up around him, a staple in almost every media profile, as if the ability to go without sleep and food translates into the possibility of a man single-handedly winning the war. 

By midnight at Kitty O’Shea’s, much of Team America is completely shitfaced. Two officers do an Irish jig mixed with steps from a traditional Afghan wedding dance, while McChrystal’s top advisers lock arms and sing a slurred song of their own invention. “Afghanistan!” they bellow. “Afghanistan!” They call it their Afghanistan song.

McChrystal steps away from the circle, observing his team. “All these men,” he tells me. “I’d die for them. And they’d die for me.” http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-runaway-general-20100622

Those three quotations can give you a feeling for why Michael Hastings article in Rolling Stone was explosive enough to lead to the end of Stanley McChrystal’s military career. Hastings was an excellent writer and whether you agree with his conclusions or not the full Rolling Stone article will give you a flavor of his competence as a journalist and I suggest to reading it in its entirety.

I’ve written much on what I call the “Corporate/Military/Intelligence/Complex” (CMIC) as I see it. http://jonathanturley.org/2013/07/12/who-do-you-trust-us-or-your-lying-eyes/#more-66997  One of its’ features is that there is an interrelationship between those in the Military and Intelligence fields with those corporations who receive funding for providing supplies for them. I see this interrelationship as rather incestuous and harmful to our country, since the permeability between these entities can and often does leads to corruption of all parties. In General McChrystal’s case one can see that his Army Retirement has certainly not ended his career:

“In 2010, after leaving the Army, McChrystal joined Yale University as a Jackson Institute for Global Affairs senior fellow. He teaches a course entitled “Leadership,” a graduate-level seminar with some spots reserved for undergraduates. The course received 250 applications for 20 spots in 2011 and is being taught for a third time in 2013.[69][70][71]

In November 2010, JetBlue Airways announced that McChrystal would join its board of directors.[72] On February 16, 2011, Navistar International announced that McChrystal would join its board of directors.[73] He is also Chairman of the Board of Siemens Government Systems, and is on the strategic advisory board of Knowledge International, a licensed arms dealer whose parent company is EAI, a business “very close” to the United Arab Emirates government.[74]

McChrystal co-founded and is a partner at the McChrystal Group LLC, an Alexandria, Virginia-based consulting firm.[75][76]

In 2011, McChrystal advocated instituting a national service program in the United States. McChrystal stated, “‘Service member’ should not apply only to those in uniform, but to us all … America is falling short in endeavors that occur far away from any battlefield: education, science, politics, the environment, and cultivating leadership, among others. Without a sustained focus on these foundations of our society, America’s long-term security and prosperity are at risk.”[77][78]

McChrystal’s memoir, My Share of the Task, published by Portfolio of the Penguin Group, was released on January 7, 2013.[79] The autobiography had been scheduled to be released in November 2012, but was delayed due to security clearance approvals required from the Department of Defense. Portfolio publishers stated, “We have decided to delay the publication date of General McChrystal’s book, My Share of the Task, as the book continues to undergo a security review by the Department of Defense … General McChrystal has spent 22 months working closely with military officials to make sure he follows all the rules for writing about the armed forces, including special operations.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_A._McChrystal This is a case of Old (General) Soldiers not only not dying but certainly not fading away. In fact one can detect a political future in the making.

Based on what I presented above let me present a hypothetical, which is only buttressed by my background as a psychotherapist, life experience and love of history. I have little doubt that the General and his cronies believe themselves to be good men and patriots all. They view the world from a perspective that arrogates to themselves knowledge not available to those who have never “walked in their shoes”. While capable of nuanced judgment, it is a judgment nevertheless informed by their world perspective and self-concept of being heroic individuals. Among his men the General is no doubt looked at as the Alpha. As he was quoted in saying: “McChrystal steps away from the circle, observing his team.”All these men,” he tells me. “I’d die for them. And they’d die for me.” I believe the General is stating the truth. So then hypothetically, how would he and/or his men view Hastings’s article that led to the General’s retirement?  They believed that the General had the insight to bring the war to a successful conclusion.  They believed that our President and his vice President didn’t have a clue as to how to successfully prosecute this war. They therefore then believed that those who opposed the General and his plans were acting against the best interests of the United States, possibly skirting treason. Finally though, Hastings’s was a person who they opened up to and allowed to sit in on their inner circle. They trusted him to produce an article that would highlight the greatness and successes of Stanly McChrystal, after all how could he not after spending so much time with them? Hastings’s article and McChrystal’s ouster probably infuriated them all and raised an angry reaction in men who were described by Hastings as:

“The general’s staff is a handpicked collection of killers, spies, geniuses, patriots, political operators and outright maniacs. There’s a former head of British Special Forces, two Navy Seals, an Afghan Special Forces commando, a lawyer, two fighter pilots and at least two dozen combat veterans and counterinsurgency experts. They jokingly refer to themselves as Team America, taking the name from the South Park-esque sendup of military cluelessness, and they pride themselves on their can-do attitude and their disdain for authority.”

Am I being unfair in speculating that perhaps the death of this Journalist, three years after this article, may well have been payback? Who knows, not I, but my senses tell me that there are at least two scenario’s whereby Michael Hastings death may be no accident. One could be the government itself, or certain parts of it related to the CMIC and another could be those able to take revenge on someone who in their opinion “brought a good man down to the detriment of our country”. I doubt that the public will ever know the truth if the death was not accidental and really that is not my point in writing this. What I’m trying to bring out is that beyond the unconstitutional behavior of our government in the name of “National Security”, which escalated after 9/11, a situation which in itself is terrible, is the heightened speculation and concomitant loss of faith in our government which follows in its wake. We are supposed to be a nation that exists under the rule of law and guided by our Constitution. How can we maintain faith in these institutions if we suspect that those in government or in the Corporate/Military/Intelligence Complex are able to act outside the law with impunity? What do you think?

Submitted By: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger

Other links about Hastings death and the suspicions about it:

http://www.infowars.com/friend-michael-hastings-marked-for-death/

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hastings-panicked-email-fbi-death-article-1.1380539

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-09/elusive-details-michael-hastings-death
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/21/email-sent-by-michael-hastings-hours-before-his

http://www.globalresearch.ca/death-of-rolling-stone-muckracker-the-michael-hastings-wreck-

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/18/19027717-journalist-michael-hastings-dies-at-33..

http://www.sandiego6.com/story/details-of-reporter-hastings-death-remain-elusive-20130708

233 thoughts on “What Happened to Michael Hastings?

  1. Mike,

    I knew who Michael Hastings was when I read the story about his death–and the first thing that I wondered about was whether his death was really caused by an accident. Call me suspicious!

  2. An eyewitness said that Hastings was travelling at an extremely high rate of speed and spun out of control but who knows for sure. The far right wing infowars is cited again. ugh..

  3. Mike,

    Coincidence happens, but that being said, this pushed my suspicion button as well. He may have been killed for something he did. Revenge is a dish best served cold and the amount of time passed between event and his death seems about right from an objective planning standpoint to both allay suspicion from an information control/propaganda standpoint but not so far out as to allow Hastings to “do more damage”. I think you are familiar with my understanding of information theory and propaganda enough to know that may be speculation, but it is informed speculation. Then again, he may have been killed for something he was about to do. The flurry of activity before he “went off the radar” could be smoke for a fire not fully set. Or it could be simply an accident.

    I’m comfortable in remaining suspicious.

    At worst, the suspicions are unfounded. At best, they are wise.

  4. Mike,

    From what I’ve read from the most conservative to the most liberal….. They all stated that he sent out an email not to long before his demise that he feared for his life and that the Authorities had been questioning family and friends….. Now how credible his email was is whether you believe our government is capable of such a thing….. I think so…. Is it possible that somebody in government could do something like this….. YES…. You may not be paranoid if folks are out to get you and they do….

  5. Good Job Mike Spindel!

    And a good topic.

    Ed Meese was an American hating piece of trash that worked for Ronnie Ray Gun.

    Many of you likely recall Meese & Ollie North spent hours on end shredding damning documents that may have been related to Iran/Contra.

    It was a data wash.

    The data wash by these type traitors haven’t stopped & continue to this day.

    I mention this here because everyone needs to store plenty of back up copies, with hard copies, in different locations.

    Remember with the Nazi GW Bush, the washing of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was just the PR stunt for the public that helps hide the larger ongoing data wash.

    Those BIA records weren’t destroyed just because they were bored!

    Those Bond records weren’t destroyed in NYC just because of storage space issues.

    etc…………

  6. [quote]What I’m trying to bring out is that beyond the unconstitutional behavior of our government in the name of “National Security”, which escalated after 9/11, a situation which in itself is terrible, is the heightened speculation and concomitant loss of faith in our government which follows in its wake. We are supposed to be a nation that exists under the rule of law and guided by our Constitution. How can we maintain faith in these institutions if we suspect that those in government or in the Corporate/Military/Intelligence Complex are able to act outside the law with impunity? [/quote]
    ———–
    Well said and well asked.
    I appreciate the article, even if a bit surprised to see it on this august blog.
    It is a reasonable story to solicit the concluding paragraph and the questions posed in it.
    The questions, however, are essential ones are are not limited to just this example/event. I wish there would be a full throated discussion of these questions that would a) stay on point b) not get into silly non sequitur c) not get sidetracked into small eddies, no matter how interesting they might be (ie, debating endlessly over the mechanics of the crash) d) be open eyed and unflinching in addressing the questions raised above, and go whereever the ‘evidence’ leads. e) have whatever points and thoughts augmented with some deeper legal perspective of the sort that JT and others bring to the conversation.

    From this basis it would be amazing and fantastic if something more than impotent hand wringing or cynical conclusions could be asserted.

    Of course, as others in other places have well pointed out, the country is in some horrible transition. Others assert the transformation is already fiat accompli’. And I share some of those sentiments.

    What I am hoping for is something deeper than just the simply saying so of it all. Meaning: example the point. Express some underlying principles or possibilities. Or if hopelessness is the only rational conclusion then support it.

    Anyway… that is my “agenda”. Maybe it is not congruent with the commetariat here? It does seem however that it is congruent with the overall point of the various original posts on this blog.

    My two bits.

    Michael

  7. Then there is also the Pat Tillman’s death cover up, both McChrystal & Michael Hastings are some how tied to that story.

    It’s really pretty tough to see just who the good guys are from the bad guys on some of this stuff.

    When it comes to the UN, NATO, Red Cross & a bunch of others it’s clear to me they don’t have American’s best interest in mind.

  8. Murder of inconvenient people has long been a staple of US capitalism, so this would not be surprise. I can cite numerous frame ups of labor activists in the US and their executions. More recently Kerr/McGee was more than likely behind the murder of Karen Silkwood of my old union, OCAW. So it may well not be the government, but other nasty players who are unkinown as of yet. I would most definitely NOT treat this as a run of the mill accident and would take a very hard look at it. It may well be that, but our history does not bode well for such a finding.

  9. For example: this line I think is worthy of some explication: We are supposed to be a nation that exists under the rule of law and guided by our Constitution.

    Are we prepared to say this is no longer the case? That we are supposed to be, but are we?

    I don’t know. It seems there is a strong case to be made that we are not, even while we maintain the forms of being ruled by Constitutional law.
    I’d love to hear from those legal scholars on this question. Are we still, meaningfully a Legal society? Or has the corruption so infiltrated the system and the society that the only viable response is apathy and a cynical “… its all gone to hell….”

    Curious.

  10. A group put this video together playing out their concerns of what might start unfolding one day soon.

    I’m seeing it is something that could happen on just about any day.

    If not how do we get to a better solution & who will be the new leaders, if any leaders at all?

    PURGE – “Operation Paul Revere InfoWars.com Contest”

  11. When I heard of the death of Michael Hastings, I too reacted with suspicion. To me, however, the most frightening consequence of Mr. Hastings death is not his death in and of itself, tragic though it is, but what it says about the state of our government at this time in history. The fact that we as Americans can justifiably point our collective finger at Washington and, given the state of affairs since 9/11, ask the question ‘Is my government actually capable of such an action’ is frightening enough, but to be able to answer ‘Yes it is’ is the most frightening of all. IMHO

  12. When you investigate anything, there are NO COINCIDENCES, unless proven. I had read one piece about this guy and it seem curious. After reading this good, in depth post, it seems a bit more curious. The toxicology reports are key. I want to know them before exploring more sinister possibilities.

  13. MIke,
    Interesting questions. I too wondered about the smell test when I heard of the Hastings “accident”. However, we have very little to go on at this point. the idea that his body was cremated without the approval of the family is one item that jumps out at me.

  14. “The toxicology reports are key. I want to know them before exploring more sinister possibilities.”

    Nick,

    Yes the toxicology reports would be key, but will we ever get them?

  15. You have touched upon a number of very significant institutional issues that each deserve substantial investigation. Irrespective of what may have happened to Hastings, you exhibit keen insight with respect to the elite war fighters who, having been incubated in the special operations community, have a superior sense of righteousness that can be very dangerous when set free from strict military discipline and good management. I know this world very well, particularly when it transitions to the commercial world.

  16. Mike, That’s where one or more of Hasting’s colleagues can step up in his honor and push an investigation. You don’t get shit from the government unless you push, know someone, or pay. Hopefully justateacher doesn’t read this!!

  17. When I first heard Mr. Hastings had died in a one car accident my first thought was that he had been taken out. I am not happy about that thought. I also know that 5 years ago this would not have been my first thought but the world has truly changed. Our leaders both military and civilian know no limits. Our military leaders are lionized beyond all reality. They lie, cheat and cover up. What success we have had is likely not because of them but in spite of them. They need someone to follow them on the continuous “non victory” laps whispering that they are but human.

    Poor Mr. Hastings and his family. It is sad. These are sad days in America.

  18. Anybody remember David Kelly in the UK or the DC (‘If I end up dead by suicide, it wasn’t suicide’) Madame (ended up dead by suicide). Yeah.

    And here’s the thing about the government going rogue, once it does and you know it, you know anything is possible. Anything.

    There is a certain mindset that feeds on itself – I knew someone that was being harassed, seriously harassed, by someone that was capable of doing them harm. So while driving home a vehicle that was the same as/very much like a vehicle that the harasser’s close family member owned started pacing that person on the highway. It ended up with them both barreling down the highway, pacing and evading, at speeds hitting 90+ mph.

    Now was that suspicious vehicle some a**hole that approached too close and too fast and then thought the initial evasive moves of the harassed person was an invitation to race? Or was that an attempt by a nefarious person to actually harm the person being harassed, probably with a borrowed car? Who knows. They’re both lucky neither of them weren’t killed.

    I thought of that when I heard about Mr. Hastings, possibly fleeing an imaginary foe. I also thought about David Kelly and the DC Madame, no imaginary foes there and I’m convinced, murdered for what they knew. I feel like Alice, through the looking glass these days but these days have gone on for years and there is no end in sight.

  19. The toxocology reports will show that Hastings was (supposedly) hyped up on drugs and/or alcohol.

    And that’s the reason for the cremation against family wishes: they can never order independent testing to prove what was — or, more importantly, was not — in his system when he died.

    When even security czar for 4 presidents, Richard Clarke, no tin foil hat lunatic, basically asserts that the likelihood of car-hacking is high (and that the parties responsible will likely get away with it), and the mainstream press drops the story in 72 hours as it did, there’s a flashing red light that something is WRONG.

    The only mention the MSM will ever again make about Hastings’ death
    will be to report that he was “drunk” when the crash happened.

    We wont have to wait long.

    And the press corps and media, who so resented him for doing the job they should have themselves been doing, have gotten the message from his death: continue on in your duties as stenographers for the Pentagon. And keep your mouths shut.

  20. Here’s ’a smoking gun:

    “From The Operators [Hastings’ book on General Stanley McChrystal and his team, that took him down], Hastings writes that as they drank and sang, several McChrystal staff members make subtle threats, saying:

    ‘You’re not going to f*ck us, are you?’ asks one staff member.

    Hastings responds: ‘I’m going to write a story; some of the stuff you’ll like, some of the stuff you probably won’t like.’

    Another staffer then says: ‘We’ll hunt you down and kill you if we don’t like what you write.

  21. Anonymously Posted and I discussed this incident on this blog shortly after its occurrence. We had no doubt then and if AP were still posting, I believe we would have no doubt now. We also have no proof which is the convenience of an unwanted cremation.

  22. **
    Chuckie811 1, July 20, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    The toxocology reports will show that Hastings was (supposedly) hyped up on drugs and/or alcohol.

    And that’s the reason for the cremation against family wishes: they can never order independent testing to prove what was — or, more importantly, was not — in his system when he died.

    When even security czar for 4 presidents, Richard Clarke, no tin foil hat lunatic, basically asserts that the likelihood of car-hacking is high (and that the parties responsible will likely get away with it), and the mainstream press drops the story in 72 hours as it did, there’s a flashing red light that something is WRONG.

    The only mention the MSM will ever again make about Hastings’ death
    will be to report that he was “drunk” when the crash happened.

    We wont have to wait long.

    And the press corps and media, who so resented him for doing the job they should have themselves been doing, have gotten the message from his death: continue on in your duties as stenographers for the Pentagon. And keep your mouths shut. **

    The murder of Hastings was confirmed with the cremation & the result is they just made 50,000 new Hastings.

    There never was or will there ever be a survival-able case of “I was just going along with the Hitlers of the world to survive!”

  23. Richard A. Clarke, suggested that nowadays it is possible to hack into a car and remotely control it.

    Other eyewitnesses said that the explosion happened BEFORE the car smashed into the tree to the side of the road.

    So much for the sense of security we all imbibe….

  24. Kraaken: I think the capacity of the oligarchy to commit murder in furtherance of its agenda goes back before 911, to the death of Paul Wellstone. Had he lived, he likely would have been elected president and 911 never takes place.

  25. I am not a conspiracy theorist type of person. This smells like rotten fish. If Mr. O can kill people he deems a “threat” then I believe Hastings is just the sort of person Mr O had in mind. Now did Mr O order the killing? Likely not, but the message from on high is clear, if it’s a threat, kill it.

  26. In regards to Wellstone, his death was an accident for sure since I personally talked to a pilot who flew for the charter company that ran that airplane. Aviation is a very small community so this is not unusual. According to my classmate at Flight Safety, the guy flying as PIC was working the flight as a second job and had worked all night and had no sleep for over 24 hrs. He had as his F/O a low time pilot who had been flying with another captain who had a very bad habit of running the power levers while on an approach. So the F/O was flying the approach into marginal weather and did not bring the power up since he was used to the captain doing it. The plane ran out of airspeed, stalled and crashed. This is like the Buffalo crash, only that the pilots were not so stupid as to fight the stick pusher which a Beech does not have in any case. The first warning they would have gotten is the nose dropping rapidly and non recovery because they were too close to the ground.

  27. I might be less suspicious of this crash had it been just an ordinary, non-involved person but given such intrigues involving some gov’t officials and the person who dies in ths crash it does give me something to be suspicious of, especially given some mention of witnesses stating they saw an explosion/flames prior to the collision with the tree.

    One could look at the fact that if someone wanted to make a homicide appear as a vehicle collision causing the accellerator to stick wide open and some incindiary device being detonated just prior or at the collision surely would make it look like the fire was caused by a high speed collision where the flames would take away a lot of evidence. It is one way of looking at it, but I don’t have any way of knowing for sure.

    I would really like to see the final crash investigation file to see what it contains, and equally important what it might not contain.

    Maybe it might be as the Karen Silkwood collision, suspicious but we might never know for certain what actually happened.

    Thanks Mike

  28. Arthur Randolph Erb,

    Re crash

    Yes it sounds like it could have happened that way, but Dick Cheney was VP!

    Do you need any more info than that?

    If you do, then get the best stats guy in the biz.

    Have him/her run the the stats of how many good guys whacked/fall out of the sky vs how many evil b*stards fall out of the sky.

    I’ll take a wild guess, 9999.999 good guys killed to one azzhole.

  29. Regarding the Paul Wellstone crash, the NTSB final report is definitive. As ARE says, the pilots failed to maintain airspeed, the airplane stalled, and they were too low to recover from the stall. The full NTSB report is at the link. It is long, highly detailed and the results are conclusive. Pilot error. Happens all the time. Not everything is a conspiracy.

    The National Transportation Safety Board learned about the accident about 1130
    on October 25, 2002. A go-team was assembled, and it departed that same day and arrived
    on scene about 2045 that evening. Accompanying the team was Acting Chairman Carol J.
    Carmody and representatives from the Safety Boardís Offices of Government, Public, and
    Family Affairs.

    Parties to the investigation were the Federal Aviation Administration; Aviation
    Charter, Inc.; Raytheon Aircraft Company; and Hartzell Propeller, Inc. An accredited
    representative from the Transportation Safety Board of Canada and a technical advisor
    from Pratt & Whitney Canada also assisted in the investigation.

    http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2003/AAR0303.pdf

  30. One thing to consider though, the short cycles have ended & this is the end of the long super cycle.

    It’s always this way.

    Make sure your family, friends & your self are as secure as you can first.

    Make sure your trail cam has fresh batteries & an extra large memory card & place it down viewing the river.

    I believe we’ll soon be seeing a large bunch of evil aholes like Jamie Dimon/JPM, Goldmansachs boyz, Well Fargo creeps Buffet/Munger & others like Monsanto n Gate floating by.

    I’ll be watching, we’ll see.

  31. Setting aside the Hastings assassination theory for one minute. Hastings wrote how General McCrystal was displeased with President Obama for appearing intimidated in front of military brass.

    This says a lot about our system and who really controls the levers of power behind the curtain. Why would any president feel intimidated by military brass unless there was a reason to feel intimidated by these people?

    This tells me that President Obama feels naturally inferior to the military brass and probably does with the top brass in the NSA, CIA, DEA and FBI. Now when I say inferior I do not mean race. I mean the natural order of how things operate within the secret government.

    To me this speaks volumes as to why President Obama would allow programs like PRISM to continue. Why he would be even worse then President George W. Bush when it comes to government surveillance, attacks on civil liberties, attacks on government whistle blowers, drone warfare, the NDAA….President Obama is more of a push over to these people than Bush was. He gives them what he wants and damn the constitution, he has his life, wife, daughters and legacy to think of.

    As for Michael Hastings, I believe he was assassinated. I believe his vehicle had a bomb planted on it and the vehicle was taken over remotely. He was playing with the same organizations of psychopaths who had JFK taken out in 1964.

    Mr. Spindell wrote: In a world where American Presidents openly arrogate to themselves the right to kill people deemed enemies of the United States, all things suddenly become possible.

    Indeed!

  32. I heard an interview recently by someone who is in the government that said it is not only POSSIBLE for people to hack into car computers, but that it is DONE, and it is not at all unusual. THAT coupled with the fact he had just let his friend know that he was going to lay low because he thought they were after him (was it FBI? I’ve forgotten who he said was after him) made it sound like a slam dunk. And of course now his family wanted to bury him, and weren’t allowed? Because they had him cremated? How is it possible that a body wouldn’t have been totally burned up in that car? Unless I guess he was thrown out of the car before it caught fire.

    I have to say I didn’t think it was a hit at first, as I hadn’t heard of him. And even after I knew he was an investigative journalist I didn’t think of it. But once I heard that he had just told a friend he needed to lay low because he thought they were after him, that convinced me in a heartbeat. And then finding out about the hacking of the car’s computers to get them to do anything you want, that sealed it for me!

  33. Let’s do a bit of mix here:

    Regarding the Paul Wellstone crash/“Former U.S. National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard Clarke told The Huffington Post that what is known about the single-vehicle crash is “consistent with a car(AIRPLANE) cyber attack.”

  34. Knowing the BE-200 it is damn hard to crash it unless a pilot does something really stupid. As for bad guys falling out of the sky, I can list plenty on that score, such as Sen. John Tower, the Governor of South Dakota, and many others. Both of those were mechanical disasters which no pilot could have handled. Wellstone was just a victim of a bad operation like the crash of the Big Bopper and Richie Valens.

  35. I abhor conspiracy stories, mostly because so many of them are so clearly just that: somebody’s fantasy going wild. As I follow lots of the news and lived and worked in Afghanistan for a year between 2004-09 I was well aware of Michael Hastings and the great writing he did. I don’t even want to contemplate this theory, not because I think it stinks but because I simply never trusted this or any other government. I never had any illusions that the American government and its fighting forces and intelligence agencies would shy away from eliminating critics and others who stood in their way.
    If anybody else was involved in the death of Michael Hastings my gut feeling is that it wasn’t on Pres. Obama’s orders. Too risky. Michael Hastings describes Commander McChrystal’s inner circle as a band of people among which some are spies, maniacs and killers. This fits SOF to the ‘T’. That’s what they they are trained for and that’s what they do not only in Afghanistan but many other countries in the world.
    I wouldn’t look any further than that crowd.
    Then again, I don’t believe Michael Hastings was killed. Driving at a very high speed and spinning our of control seems a good enough explanation to me.

  36. What Michael Hastings wrote of what General McCrystal felt about President Obama is eye opening and very telling. Why would the POTUS feel intimidated in a meeting with military brass, unless it’s just the natural order of things when an elected government figurehead meets those who really control the levers of power behind the curtain?

    Perhaps this explains President Obama’s continuation of the Patriot Acts, allowing the NSA to use PRISM to collect and store data on all citizens, signing off on NDAA, continuing FISA, waging war against journalists and government whistle blowers?

    Mr, Spindell wroteIn a world where American Presidents openly arrogate to themselves the right to kill people deemed enemies of the United States, all things suddenly become possible.

    Indeed. Michael Hastings was most likely the first American to be assassinated on American soil with this new presidential power. Hastings was messing around with the same organizations of psychopaths who assassinated JFK. Michael Hastings was deemed an enemy to our enemy within.

  37. the mercedes c 250 like the one hastings was driving has no throttle cable. it’s all “drive by wire”. depressing the gas pedal is just a request to the pcm to increase engine speed. the system is used on most new cars and trucks. a quick google search indicates more than a few driver complaints about pedal feel.

    is the system hackable? depends on who you ask.

  38. Re: Wellsrone

    When it comes to finance & power there are No coincidences!

    You think all those Clinton boyz just flew into a mountain by mistake?

    Who was that governor of Oklahoma at the time? Take a look a the video of his face after he heard the news. He was spouse to be on that flight.

    I haven’t heard a word from him since.

    Walters was the name maybe?

  39. What I heard (for the life of me I can’t remember where I heard it, maybe I will eventually) said that any car that has a computer in it can be hacked. And it is not just that they can say make it go in a certain direction. They said a hacker could basically do just about anything to any of the parts in the car. I could be a bit off on this, but that’s my rememberance of it. Basically what he was saying, was the car would ”drive” itself and do whatever. So it may very well not have been that MH was ”driving” at a high rate of speed. And I don’t know anything about the general he took down, or the people he had done anything to. But hearing him say he needed to lay low because ”they” (whoever it was) was after him, and then was it what? about 8 hours later? having a crash like that? Well, it certainly was convenient for someone who would have had to chase after him, wasn’t it!

  40. **
    Then again, I don’t believe Michael Hastings was killed. Driving at a very high speed and spinning our of control seems a good enough explanation to me. **

    How much is O’lies spending more on BS spin internet operators out of Tampa then GW these days?

    Show us the Math!

  41. sorry Oky1, I read much of the NTSB report, and it was gross pilot incompetence. One of them had been fired from Northwest Airlines because he could not pass the ground portion of training. THAT takes some doing too.

  42. If it would have been any other senator the Wellstone it might have been believable.

    Wellstone was the single biggest threat to Bush/Cheney at the time.

    Show us your math guys! It’s right there for ever one to see if they look.

    Don’t be scared of the math.

  43. The BLS, CDC & the SPLC puts out info all the time also & I flush the toilet often also, what’s the NTSB got to do with anything truthful that I should believe?

  44. feemeister

    it can control aspects of the steering, how much boost to give to the power steering at different speeds, but it cannot steer the car. my point about the throttle control was it can (and does) control engine rpm. it could conceivably reduce or completely bypass brake pedal pressure through the abs.

  45. No math, oh well, as one my mentors taught me, you people need to quit breathing in here, some here are trying to work & they need all the extra oxygen they can get. LOL :)

  46. Sort of OT, and 2am.

    Mike, there is more than enough evidence to convict Bush etal, (and Obama?). …Also / To convict the bankers for fraud./ To have known what the NSA has been doing since the 50s.

    The American people are snoring, getting sheared, and pooping in their own water supply, (maybe literally) AHHHH sweet Democracy.

    How sweet the sound for a poor wretch like me.
    Kill in my name, steal in my name, destroy resources in my name.

    Just lie to me, and say “It will be allright… in the morning”

    I’l be your whore, male or female. Cause I just want to believe in something.
    ALLELUIA.

    Leonard is great, Dylan is great. ( only in human terms).
    Humans are human. We just want to believe. Some of us ain’t to picky.

    All of us rise to the level of the comfort our stupidity. Ignorance is bliss, especially if you work at it.
    An Australian said to me, “You know Dave, I think and think, and think, then I give up, and let other people think for me.”

    …….. That sums up my opinion of 90% of all humans. It’s also my opinion of me, 50% of the time. But I work on it. I think you do, and I think most of the commenters here do. …..
    …. PS. I do not think Socialism and Fascism are the same thing. ….. But that’s just me, …. and most of the contributors here. :o)

  47. davidbluefish,

    I saw the beginning of the end of this crap the other day

    A few more tough years & it’s over for our lifetime.

    The Doors – Love Street

  48. My life time is now closer to “Closing Time”

    I was up,… Then I was down. I was up, then I was down.
    Getting older I found the middle.
    Now I do my best. To middle up. I raise my middle.
    Because balance is in the middle
    Middle rises, by lessening hate

    “Bitterness and spite, only its owner truly bite:

    RAISE YOUR MIDDLE MY FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS.

  49. OKY if your trying to lessen me in Morrison, I believe I am older than you.

    PS. if he lived, he may have been doing NSA commercials by now, or coca cola. …. It’s the capitalistic thing to do.

  50. The Hastings Mercedes had MBRACE:

    The most enjoyable drive begins on your desktop.

    With Send2Benz™, mbrace lets you find a destination on your computer and upload it directly to your car’s navigation system. From Google Maps™, the Search & Send™ and Route2Benz features let you send an address, or even an exact route you choose. There’s also a toolbar widget you can download that lets you highlight virtually any address on your computer screen and send it to your car with two clicks.

    When you’re on the go, the Mobile App keeps you moving.

    With the mbrace Mobile App on your iPhone® or Android™ phone, the convenience of Send2Benz is in your pocket. It lets you send the address of a point of interest, or even someone in your own contacts, directly to your navigation system. And if you need to pick someone up, Drive2Friend lets them transmit their location to your car simply by replying to a text message you send them. The Mobile App also helps you find your way back to your car, letting you pinpoint it on a map if you can’t remember where you parked.

    Remote Vehicle Diagnostics

    Beyond allowing you to perform a check of your vehicle’s main systems remotely, mbrace2 can automatically alert you to potential issues before they become full-fledged problems. In addition, it enables your vehicle to receive software updates wirelessly through the mbrace2 network.

    Like keeping your car in your pocket. Only more comfortable.

    Forget where you parked at the mall? Your Mercedes-Benz can show you on a map. Not sure if you locked the doors? Tap, touch, done. With the mbrace Mobile App’s remote vehicle controls, peace of mind is as close as your smartphone. You can even sound the horn. Or lock and unlock it from the Web or with a phone call to mbrace.

    (MBRACE). Oh, and one other thing, it is unhackable just like drones are unhackable:

    Militants in Iraq have used $26 off-the-shelf software to intercept live video feeds from U.S. Predator drones, potentially providing them with information they need to evade or monitor U.S. military operations.

    Senior defense and intelligence officials said Iranian-backed insurgents intercepted the video feeds by taking advantage of an unprotected communications link in some of the remotely flown planes’ systems.

    (Ye Olde Drone Hackers Ride Again).

    Google “Boston Brakes” and “Richard Clarke” and “car hacking”

  51. I have been reading up on Michael Hastings, as well as the car he was driving. There is a lot that does not pass the smell test, and one of the biggest issues is the rapid cremation of the body without the permission of the family. He was also driving a Mercedes and hit a tree. The fire that ensued is highly unusual, and I bet they could not replicate that on a crash test if they tried from now until the Second Coming. A Mercedes is not a Ford Pinto.

    One of the things that aggravates me, and diminishes the investigation, is that every time some public figure dies suddenly, it is a murder conspiracy. A perfect example of that are the claims regarding the Paul Wellstone and Michael Connell plane crashes, which are well documented pilot error. Or Vince Foster’s suicide. Like the boy who cried wolf, endless conspiracy claims gives both the public and the media a bad case of burnout.

    But back to Michael Hastings. I am hoping to learn he had some kind of dead man switch, as both Snowden and Assange are said to have. A file on some computer disc or thumb drive somewhere that has all his notes and messages, in safe hands who will release it soon. Not going to hold my breath, but one can always hope.

  52. Elaine,
    thanks for the video clip. I just can’t imagine why they would cremate the body so quickly after the “accident”, unless…..

  53. raff & Elaine,
    It will not be the first time something like this has happened. Many years ago, my wife’s first cousin suddenly became a widow. Her husband was following his usual routine, stopping his company truck at a small local restaurant to get his coffee and a biscuit. He got there early and was parked in front of the little eatery waiting for them to open for the day. When the owner unlocked his front door, he saw our cousin-in-law sitting in his truck, slumped over the steering wheel. He did not know who to call, so called the number on the side of the truck. The trucking company owner showed up in a matter of minutes, called the funeral home and had the body embalmed before even notifying his wife her husband was dead. Obviously, no autopsy was done or blood samples taken.

    What had happened was clear to me. It was cold, the windows were rolled up, and he sat there with the engine running, waiting for the place to open. I am convinced he died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Embalming destroyed evidence of CO poisoning. The truck had a new exhaust system installed in a matter of hours. The old exhaust was taken to the scrap yard and crushed before anyone could examine it. Her chances of a lawsuit disappeared, along with what she would have gotten under his double indemnity insurance policy. The local coroner wrote, “Probable heart attack,” on the death certificate. Not the first time, and certainly won’t be the last.

  54. Otteray Scribe 1, July 21, 2013 at 11:28 am

    You said:

    I have been reading up on Michael Hastings, as well as the car he was driving. There is a lot that does not pass the smell test …

    You might want to consider MBRACE from the link to the MBRACE website I commented on up-thread, and Richard Clarke’s related comment:

    According to a prominent security analyst, technology exists that could’ve allowed someone to hack his car. Former U.S. National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard Clarke told The Huffington Post that what is known about the single-vehicle crash is “consistent with a car cyber attack.”

    Clarke said, “There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers” — including the United States — know how to remotely seize control of a car.

    “What has been revealed as a result of some research at universities is that it’s relatively easy to hack your way into the control system of a car, and to do such things as cause acceleration when the driver doesn’t want acceleration, to throw on the brakes when the driver doesn’t want the brakes on, to launch an air bag,” Clarke told The Huffington Post. “You can do some really highly destructive things now, through hacking a car, and it’s not that hard.”

    (DU).

    You said:

    I am hoping to learn he had some kind of dead man switch, as both Snowden and Assange are said to have.

    Elaine’s video contains a statement by a reporter quoting the Wiki;eaks lawyer I beleive it was, saying that Hastings had supplied them with documentation of what he was working on.

  55. Ottery Scribe, yes, a seasoned and daring reporter like Hastings must have had enough experience to store the documentation he was working on somewhere and in more than one way and more than one place. I can’t help but think that the story he was working on and was about to report on was the Edward Snowden story. Same time period and most definitely about a subject (surveillance) close to Hasting’s interest. Time will tell if there was something else if he followed the death man switch.

  56. Almost forgot. Before somebody says anything about police investigations, that incident with the truck took place in a very small town in Arkansas in the 1980s. The police department had only two or three officers. When an officer was called to a scene like that, if there is no obvious sign of violence, they just write a report and leave. If they were extra thorough, they would check with the undertaker later to find out if any bullet holes or knife wounds were discovered on the body.

  57. Els DL & Dredd,
    I know what has been written about the possibility of him have a file stash somewhere, but we will not know for sure until it is released. If that ever happens. Given the increasing surveillance powers of governments (not just ours), I would not trust anything not in a physical device. Certainly not the cloud, unless it were publicly downloadable and in at least 128 bit encryption, as Julian Assange did. And I might add, downloadable in a form that could not be blocked in time, as WikiLeaks did with the “Insurance File.” No telling how many millions of copies of that were downloaded via BitTorrent. Interesting thing about BitTorrent. My computer kept acting funky and I could not figure out what was wrong with it. When Darren Smith was here visiting a few weeks ago, he took a shot at troubleshooting it. He discovered BitTorrent had installed a bug that ‘phoned home’ information from my computer. Darren deleted it for me. I had only used BitTorrent one time. That was when I downloaded the WL Insurance file.

    Like Sgt. Esterhaus’ famous line on the old cop series, Hill Street Blues, “Be careful out there.”

  58. Els DL,

    This was the story that Hastings was working on at the time of his death:

    Michael Hastings researching Jill Kelley case before death
    June 20, 2013
    By Brian Bennett
    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/20/news/la-pn-michael-hastings-jill-kelly-case-20130620

    Excerpt:
    WASHINGTON – During the weeks before he was killed in a car crash in Los Angeles, reporter Michael Hastings was researching a story about a privacy lawsuit brought by Florida socialite Jill Kelley against the Department of Defense and the FBI.

    Hastings, 33, was scheduled to meet with a representative of Kelley next week in Los Angeles to discuss the case, according to a person close to Kelley. Hastings wrote for Rolling Stone and the website BuzzFeed.

    Kelley alleges that military officials and the FBI leaked her name to the media to discredit her after she reported receiving a stream of emails that were traced to Paula Broadwell, a biographer of former CIA director David H. Petraeus, according to a lawsuit filed in Federal District Court in Washington, D.C., on June 3.

    Petraeus resigned from the CIA after publicly admitting that he and Broadwell had carried on an extramarital affair.

  59. I have no doubt Obama would authorize a reporter being assassinated. I am not saying that is the case here but it would not surprise me either.

  60. Michael Hastings, ‘Rolling Stone’ Contributor, Dead at 33
    The bold journalist died in a car accident in Los Angeles
    By TIM DICKINSON
    JUNE 18, 2013
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/michael-hastings-rolling-stone-contributor-dead-at-33-20130618

    Excerpt:
    For Hastings, there was no romance to America’s misbegotten wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. He had felt the horror of war first-hand: While covering the Iraq war for Newsweek in early 2007, his then-fianceé, an aide worker, was killed in a Baghdad car bombing. Hastings memorialized that relationship in his first book, I Lost My Love in Baghdad: A Modern War Story.

    A contributing editor to Rolling Stone, Hastings leaves behind a remarkable legacy of reporting, including an exposé of America’s drone war, an exclusive interview with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange at his hideout in the English countryside, an investigation into the Army’s illicit use of “psychological operations” to influence sitting Senators and a profile of Taliban captive Bowe Bergdahl, “America’s Last Prisoner of War.”

    “Great reporters exude a certain kind of electricity,” says Rolling Stone managing editor Will Dana, “the sense that there are stories burning inside them, and that there’s no higher calling or greater way to live life than to be always relentlessly trying to find and tell those stories. I’m sad that I’ll never get to publish all the great stories that he was going to write, and sad that he won’t be stopping by my office for any more short visits which would stretch for two or three completely engrossing hours. He will be missed.”

    Hard-charging, unabashedly opinionated, Hastings was original and at times abrasive. He had little patience for flacks and spinmeisters and will be remembered for his enthusiastic breaches of the conventions of access journalism. In a memorable exchange with Hillary Clinton aide Philippe Reines in the aftermath of the Benghazi attacks, Hastings’ aggressive line of questioning angered Reines. “Why do you bother to ask questions you’ve already decided you know the answers to?” Reines asked. “Why don’t you give answers that aren’t bullshit for a change?” Hastings replied.

  61. ** Otteray Scribe

    One of the things that aggravates me, and diminishes the investigation, is that every time some public figure dies suddenly, it is a murder conspiracy. A perfect example of that are the claims regarding the Paul Wellstone and Michael Connell plane crashes, which are well documented pilot error. Or Vince Foster’s suicide. Like the boy who cried wolf, endless conspiracy claims gives both the public and the media a bad case of burnout. **

    I’m not attempting to aggravate you. I’m sorry a good number of people have an unresolved phobia of the word Conspiracy.

    I’m sure you’re well aware of Normalcy bias, Stockholm syndrome & cognitive dissonance.

    Cases of where the horse barn is on fire, the horses are scared. The owners let them out of the burning barn, but in such fear, the only safety the horse know is inside the barn, so they run back in and are killed.

    Many people want to believe everything is fine & ignore the building burning down around them.

    The Paul Wellstone case is about an impossible case to make that it was anything other then an accident.

    But then one puts it into the historical context of the times politically & then known fact Dick Cheney absolutely evil & had the means & weapons at his disposal to take Wellstone out, well it’d be just foolish to completely close the file on Wellstone.

  62. Americans love conspiracies (a secret plot by exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators to achieve a malevolent end) and have since the days leading up to the Revolution when all the leadership was convinced that King George and Parliament were conspiring to “enslave” the freemen within the colonies for no other reason than financial gain.

    Many books have been written on the matter but I’ll give you one Pulitzer Prize winner for perusal: The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution by Bernard Bailyn.

    We were founded by a bunch of conspiracy theorists … it’s a cultural thing.

  63. Elaine M. 1, July 21, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Michael Hastings, ‘Rolling Stone’ Contributor, Dead at 33
    The bold journalist died in a car accident in Los Angeles
    By TIM DICKINSON
    JUNE 18, 2013
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/michael-hastings-rolling-stone-contributor-dead-at-33-20130618

    Excerpt:
    For Hastings, there was no romance to America’s misbegotten wars…………

    A contributing editor to Rolling Stone, Hastings leaves behind a remarkable legacy of reporting, including an exposé of America’s ……………………………………………………………………………………….

    (” an investigation into the Army’s illicit use of “psychological operations” to influence sitting Senators” )

    Oops, nothing to see here folks, turn away & don’t to see what’s going on inside the MIC’s “psychological operations”.

    How many people do they now have posting/responding on internet blogs?

    G’afternoon boyz/girlz down at Tampa Bay. LOL ;)

  64. Oky1,
    Thanks for you considerate reply. The problem for most people seems to be separating the wheat from the chaff. As for aviation, accidents happen. Both famous and not-so-famous people have died in crashes. Recall that Senator Ted Stevens died in an Alaska plane crash, which is actually not an unusual event. House Majority Leader Hale Boggs and Rep. Nick Begich disappeared on a flight over rugged terrain in Alaska. Humorist Will Rogers and his famous pilot, Wiley Post, died in an Alaska crash.

    Someone once said that flying an airplane never extended anyone’s life span. On the wall of my office hangs a plaque with a famous quotation by Captain A. G. Lamplugh of the British Aviation Insurance Group. He wrote it in the early 1930s:

    Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.

    Just because powerful people may have the means and desire, does not mean they actually had someone do the wet work. As for the case of Karen Silkwood, you will have a hard time convincing me her death was an accident. Barry Seal’s murder was certainly not an accident The two guys who killed him were caught, but they were low level hit men who really knew very little. Barry Seal was placed in a helpless position where it made their contract job easy.

    As for Michael Hastings, his death is more than suspicious. I hope some other reporter is willing and able to take up where he so abruptly left off.

  65. Mike, I think there are good reasons to wonder about Hastings’ death. Knowing what happened for certain will probably not be possible given the current state of affairs in our nation.

    One thing we do know is this govt. doesn’t worry about committing torture or murder. That’s not speculation, it’s fact. We have proof that the Iraq War was a deliberate conspiracy. Conservatively, tens of thousands of people died from that lie. We understand that this govt. meets on Tuesday and sits around marking people for death by drone. This isn’t legal, yet it is occurring. So, murdering someone who might reveal actions this govt. would like to remain secret? Why not? It’s just one more body in a long line.

    I think it is sad that so many people were immediately wondering if some part of USGinc. was not involved in this death. Nevertheless, USGinc. is baring its fangs in ways no one can easily miss. The war on whistleblowers, the take down of Occupy, arresting third party candidates for trying to be part of the presidential debate, force feeding detainees in Gitmo, not to mention illegally and unjustly holding people there at all–these are just a few things which are known to us. It’s bad news. Any thinking/feeling person would be correct to look at all this and believe the govt. might well be involved in Hasting’s death.

  66. “Seems to me almost like JFK himself gave the man no choice.”

    Nate,

    Carlos Marcello is one of the good choices for those behind JFK’s murder. There are many others, or a conglomerate of same which includes the CIA, Teamsters, CMIC, J. Edgar, LBJ, Nixon, GHW Bush, etc. I don’t know which person or combinations of same actually arranged it, but I’m damned sure that it wasn’t Oswald acting alone.

  67. Jill,

    You got my point that my piece wasn’t about Hastings death per se, though that was tragic, but about the climate of lawlessness that has been established in the name of national security. That so many had the same thought as me was surprising. I actually thought as I wrote it, that many would think me overly paranoid……it didn’t work out that way.

  68. As for JFK, I think the final fault rests with the banksters. He had just had us put back on the gold/silver standard, which was not to be allowed by the banksters. He was in the middle of abolishing the CIA, which also was not to be allowed. He was pulling troops out of Viet Nam, which ticked lots of people off too. Plus, all the various and assorted smaller things, such as mafiosos.

    My feeling on what happened with him is that it was primarily the banksters which got the others involved, and several of them sent people or teams that were at Dealey Plaza. There were apparently several areas where shots were fired from. It was teamwork, and I don’t know if they even know exactly which team hit the winning shots. But it was NOT LHO! I think the Mafia had one of the teams that was there. But they were NOT responsible. There’s no way that Mafia or crime people could have done the coverup. No way! But they certainly could have contributed the bullets! Reading about the Oswald double, and the James Files interview, and all the rest was what convinced me there were teams there. I did hear recently that they found shells on the roof across the street from the Book Depository where Oswald was. I’m thinking there was a better shot from there, but I could be misremembering.

    Had the Mafia done this, you wouldn’t have had cops confiscating people’s cameras and film and destroying it and never giving it back. There wouldn’t have been all the hiding of the evidence, all the anomalies with the Secret Service, etc.

  69. Infowars and The Blaze are showing up on more than one post (including Turley’s) as legitimate sources (the NYDaily News is a little iffy, too), there’s a new and frequent commentor that is certifiably insane, Jill Kelley, really?, may be the story that has caused this tumult, toxicality reports are suspect if they aren’t published the next day as was done for James Galdolfino, some unknown blonde on some local news show has spoken to a close family friend (no name) but has not spoken to Mrs. Hastings…

    What’s next – Daryl Issa as a guest blogger?

  70. justateacher,
    I think we are safe from Darryl Issa showing up as a guest blogger. He is “making” too much money on his day job.

  71. justateacher,

    Here you go, just another day in the authoritarian police state.

    ** ON THE ALEX JONES SHOW

    The End of Privacy

    Alex is back in studio for this Sunday, July 21 edition of the Alex Jones Show. Obama continues his public rollout of scandals and his latest one completely eclipses the NSA spy gate. The Obamacare Federal Data Services Hub allows federal agencies to exchange Americans’ personal data with each other. “Alphabet” agencies such as the IRS, DHS, DOJ, etc. can now pry on Americans at will by pulling up a complete federal dossier compiled on every American. Google expresses its intentions to “transform the ways people interact with Google.” The company envisions planting computer chips into people’s heads. James David Manning, chief pastor of the ATLAH World Missionary Church in New York City, joins to show to discuss the aftermath of the George Zimmerman trial. Alex also reveals the released photo of Boston bombing suspect Dzhokar Tsarnaev surrendering to authorities without a gunshot wound in his throat, stunning proof that the “official” story is completely wrong. **

  72. http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/summer/30-to-watch Alex Jones of Infowars is ranked with David Duke in the top 30 of the most radical right leaders in the country. The fact that the Turley blog has used Infowars as a source not once but twice could be a deal breaker for me, justateacher. The problem is I like some of the people here so I am still here. One can be anti Obama without taking up with the lowest common denominators one would think. Glenn Greenwald manages to.

  73. **Otteray Scribe 1, July 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Oky1,
    Thanks for your considerate reply. **

    You’re welcome.

    I’d prefer my comments to be received in that manner without all my inflammatory stuff unless a bit of the inflammatory might be called for.

    That Barry Seal’s case stuff you posted was very interesting. It took me about 3 hours to crew through it.

    It’s just one small piece of the much larger ongoing puzzle.

    ie: Whitey Bulger. James “Whitey” Bulger, Boston’s most notorious gangster-Roger Wheeler’s Telex records of transnational flow of money, movie: The Departed, etc…..

    As noted by Hastings, Gen. McChrystal tells us the military has gone to the strategy of continuous war.

    Just as was stated from West Point about a decade ago. Further that the whole US is now considered by them as a war zone & they’ve put in place Full Spectrum Dominance policy.

    Many people think of a war zone as looking like WW2 or Korea, this war doesn’t look anything like either of those.

    It looks to me like Hasting, Manning, Snowden, the Boston bombing & martial drill, Batman shooter & his govt psyop Doc, etc…..

  74. Swm,

    Instead of taking SPLC’s word/slander that Infowars is worst then the KKK why don’t you do some due diligence, listen to his show, read the stories, etc…

    Unlike Glen Beck/Blaze, infowars/Jones wears who they are right out in the open for all to see on their sleeve.

    Yes I’m cautious of Jones on certain things like do the Koch brother still have anything to do with the John Birch Sociality?

    And keep in mind the billionaire Koch Brothers are not the only Billionaires out there cause us trouble, there’s Buffet, Gates, George Kaiser, etc & thousand of terrorist like foundations, Rockefeller, Ford, Red Cross, Cancer Society, what’s that Breast Cancer outfit?, etc… & plus all there Wallst/London firms…..

    It may be a bit rough to watch the video all the way though, but the people that made it have a point.

    Glenn Beck is Rat Poison [“Operation Paul Revere InfoWars.com Co

  75. Oky1, I have looked at enough videos and read enough already. Infowars is another right wing Texas movement that I am not interested in. I could replay Alex Jones’ rants about Trayvon Martin and the new black panthers, his denials of Sandy hook and his anti-abortion rants again but I really don’t care too. His Hitler imitations look all too real to me.

  76. I don’t get a dime to pimp infowars or any other site, I do it for free.

    And when I bash the Red Cross, CDC or some Cancer Society outfit I do it for family/friends that have passed on & for those alive that will likely be faced with dealing with these issue.

    Notice those outfits never talk about find the Cause of Cancer & only about their kind cure.

    I’d suggest you pay for this movie if it still isn’t free. It doesn’t give you a cure, but it does show you what you’ll be up against if you go through the AMA’s treatment.

    Our family here will not be going through anymore of the AMA’s so called treatments!

    Cut Poison Burn Official Trailer

  77. ** I could replay Alex Jones’ rants about Trayvon Martin and the new black panthers,**

    Feel free SwM, it’s your creditability that’s on the line, let the other readers decide fore themselves.

  78. Conspiracy Theory?

    How about Conspiracy Fact, here’s the CDC helping us out again.

    **

    CDC Sends Fact Sheet Linking Polio Vaccine to Cancer Down the Memory Hole

    Print The Alex Jones Channel Alex Jones Show podcast Prison Planet TV Infowars.com Twitter Alex Jones’ Facebook Infowars store

    Page admitting 10-30 million Americans received contaminated doses removed

    Adan Salazar
    Prison Planet.com
    July 20, 2013

    The Center for Disease Control and Prevention website curiously mothballed pages admitting that the polio vaccine administered from 1955 to 1963 to over 98 million Americans was contaminated with a primate form of cancer virus.**

    much more………….

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/cdc-sends-fact-sheet-linking-polio-vaccine-to-cancer-down-the-memory-hole.html

  79. Oky1, I think Infowars has had more than enough playtime here so I wont be posting them.. If you want to keep playing the infowars videos, be my guest. Some here are receptive to infowars.

  80. SwM,

    Whatever you’re other opinions are, that’s fine, but do save that link to Cut Poison Burn & the site Naturalnews.com has some info on cancer.

    I don’t know what the answer is besides to start taking the poisons out of the air,food, water,vaccines,meds, but I do know it’s not in the solution the AMA is offering us.

  81. Oky1, I might agree with you to some extent on some of your ideas about health but not about infowars.

  82. So far, the links making the antivaccine allegations remind me of a post from the Respectful Insolence blog, which is a science blog, not a political one. The post I am referring to is this one: “The clueless cite the ignorant to argue against vaccines” Link below.
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/

    Speaking as a polio survivor, the anti-polio vaccine people are some of the most dangerous people on earth. Polio was a horrible scourge, and it has almost been eliminated, thanks to vaccines. People who want to ban the vaccines seem to want to bring this kind of scene back for children and adults. I was one of the lucky ones and it only affected one leg. But then we have to live with post-polio syndrome.

    I am old enough to remember the hospital ward with rows of iron lungs. Go back to this? I don’t think so.

  83. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention website curiously mothballed pages admitting that the polio vaccine administered from 1955 to 1963 to over 98 million Americans was contaminated with a primate form of cancer virus.**
    ========================================================

    now i know why my tail fell off. i miss my tail.

  84. One of the reasons they probably mothballed that old study was the anti-vaxxers were using it as a propaganda tool. Never mind that it was not entirely clear if the virus caused human cancer, and that as soon as the contamination was discovered, that technique for making the vaccine was scrapped. I even remember reading journal articles about it, because I was in college at the time. That was a half century ago, when knowledge of antivirus vaccines was in its infancy compared to now.

  85. OS,
    My brother had a light case of polio when he was young. Some of my earliest memories is my Mom forcing him to do his exercises. I also have a cousin who is still in braces. Where would we be without that scientific breakthrough?

  86. I have a conspiracy theory.

    “They” have put something in the water in Oklahoma.

    I’ll let everyone speculate on the effects.

  87. OS,

    Some of the issues surrounding vaccines:

    1. Should heavy metals, ie: Mercury, known Neurotoxin be used as a preservative in vaccines?

    A. Is mercury one of the main causes of the drastically increasing rate of autism. From one in 25000 to know 1 in 50 I think is the last report?

    2. Have the vaccines been throughly test for safety & effectiveness?

    3. How many different things does the gen pop really need to consider being vaccinated for?

    4. If you’ve chosen to be vaccinated then you’re supposed to be immune so why are you concerned when others choose not to be vaccinated?

    5. The Nuremberg war crimes trials made it clear it’s a crime against humanity to release live viruses into the population & no medical experimentation is allow without consent so why is our govt allowing this practice to continue? Or are they not doing that now?

    6. Under the USC the govt has no authority for force mandatory vax programs. Why are they not fully informing young parents with kids of the hazards of Vaz programs.

    I’m sure there are more I could write later, but I got to step away.

  88. “Go back to this? I don’t think so.”

    OS,

    Amen to that. I wasn’t affected by polio, but I remember it being one of the biggest fears of my childhood. I also remember the other scourges wiped out by vaccines and by medicine. I used to have to walk through the TB ward every night doing my rounds as a hopital night watchman while going to college.

    Also Jones is deluded if he thinks the Black Panthers are a threat. They are a small time racket and the greatest danger they represent is to their own credibility.

  89. Oky1,

    Here’s the real deal. The CMIC is all about spreading fear among us all. They have various agents of disinformation, just as Elijah Muhammed and Eldridge Cleaver were on the FBI payroll. Alex Jones for all his bluster is probably another agent for profit spreading fear through all aspects of our lives. This doesn’t mean that we don’t have anything to fear because obviously that’s why I wrote this piece. I’m merely saying that I have severe doubts about Alex Joneses integrity.

  90. Time is limited so will address only #4 and #5 for the moment. Children don’t get to decide. Parents decide for them. Any parent who does not get their child vaccinated from a disease that can easily cripple or kill them, and the child dies, should be charged with voluntary manslaughter. Additionally, every child who has to receive intensive care for a totally preventable disease can easily run up a seven figure medical bill. Who do you think pays for that? Of course, if the current Republican congress has their way, no one will pay for that. It is cheaper for the child to die.

    As for comparisons with war crimes, there is a heck of a lot of difference between weaponized viruses and a partially killed and weakened “live” virus in a vaccine. That is a false comparison logical fallacy.

  91. I have to agtrr with you Mike S. While these irrational folks might be active agents of the government, as what was once called Kings men, they do make a great profit like the religious hucksters and show the same kind of disregard of scrupples or reason. In short, I find them morally objectionable persons no matter who their paymasters are.

  92. Otteray Scribe, they are having babies vaccinated with mercury vaccines before they leave hospitals now if they can. Had you heard of Hepatitis B being a scourge that was killing tons of babies? Considering they tell all kinds of lies to cover up what their mercury does to their vaccines and they totally get away with it is criminally insane. And of course we mustn’t sue Drug companies anymore, must we!

    Have you ever read the ingredients that are put in some of these vaccines? Formaldehyde is put in sometimes. I would never inject my baby with formaldehyde (if I had another one). The ingredients the vaccines are laced with is insane. H1N1, flu vaccines, all kinds of different ones. I haven’t heard that these things are in every vaccine. But there are way too many that do contain horrible things. And I have read the ingredients straight from the website of the CDC.

    But that’s okay! We’ll just raise the level of poison ”necessary” to be a danger. Increase it from 10 ppm to 10 pp hundred say. Increase it a 1000 times or so. Just like they’re doing with the radiation and glyphosphates. And all GMOs are totally safe. Until they aren’t. And once they aren’t, guess what? It’s too LATE! And people are dead and you can’t bring them back, and you can’t sue the companies that killed them and more people are dying from it all around you. Just keep on going with the status quo and this is what will happen.

    People who fight this are attacked constantly for what they are doing.

    I don’t understand why people here are constantly attacking people who 1) Love the Constitution, 2) Stick up for the rights of the common people, 3) Fight for people’s health. Since when did this become extreme right or whatever?

    So what is the left? Throwing the Constitution away? Tons of new agencies that get in every bit of everybody’s business, and even do cavity searches of people who haven’t done anything to anyone? IS THIS the left? Because that is what this administration is doing. They are forcing GMOs on people that the rest of the world is outlawing. They are not allowing you to sue people who hurt, maim and kill people. They’re attacking whistleblowers left and right. They are attacking the backbone of this country. The Democrats do it and the Republicans do it.

    WHO voted in the NDAA? WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO DUE PROCESS FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

    Does anyone care anymore? I’ve read enough of Alex Jones to know that he cares about due process much more than most of the treasonous members of our government. I have also seen LOTS of news articles he’s broken a day or two before other people. (He is totally on top of stuff!)

    Is fighting drones extreme right? There again! This administration wants drones all over the country. One crashed the other day on highway 98. What if it had hit a car and caused a wreck and killed people; killed children. That would be collateral damage and who cares, right? Because drones are NECESSARY nowadays to keep us safe from ourselves. I HATE the idea of drones all over. I supposed that that is a far right idea, since I happen to agree with Alex on that.

    Alex exposes nationwide injustices. The MSM doesn’t expose these. So I guess it’s best just to sweep them under the rug, since it’s that horrible Alex Jones that exposes them. But guess what? These people are YOU AND I and our friends and our neighbors. How can people not SEE that?

  93. Thanks for pointing out the Alex Jones mention. That man is a complete conspiracy nut and anyone who quotes him either doesn’t know who this guy really is, to put it mildly, not very believable.

  94. Mike,

    Are you suggesting that Alex Jones is on the FBI payroll?

    And if you are concerned about the business of spreading fear, what the hell are you pedaling?

  95. Infowars and the Blaze has as much if not more credibility than Huffington, MSNBC, FOX or most of the Progressive sites. Both are relatively independent and not particularly corporate run. To call them right wing is disingenuous, dishonest, pathetically partisan-lefty or completely ignorant.

    Im not saying either site is right on everything either btw.

    To outright dismiss them reeks of ignorance and willful blindness to factual stories the regular media is too cowardly to report.

    Anyone who dismisses any news source because they do not like their politics is a fool.

  96. There are those that call anyone who hints that 9/11 was an inside job, a complete conspiracy nut. Of course it was an inside job. I’m not ready to have a friend of the people of America, Alex Jones, slammed like that. Vaccines is a tricky subject. Some invaluable, like Polio, & some highly suspect. Like O.S., some good info & also a lot of BS.

  97. For those that don’t know, it’s an inside joke.

    JP Morgan’s Gold Vault burned yesterday.

    Alex Schaefer, an artist, uses paint, chalk, etc., to get the point across to the people the Wallst/London Banks/Insurance Co’s are totally corrupt & criminals.

    Vaults of Gold don’t burn! Gold Melts!

    The inside joke is that all JP Morgan has isn’t real Gold, but paper promises of delivery of real gold. That Paper Burns as it’s not real Gold & is a complete criminal Fraud!

    If you can’t understand their scam, that means you are the victim!

  98. WoW! Ph’in , censored!

    Say nothing about the burning of the paper gold at JP you know who! LOL: :)

    Not to worry, I saved the comment before posting.

  99. Next attempt:

    For those that don’t know, it’s an inside joke.

    JP M…….organ’s Gold Vault burned yesterday.

    Alex Schaefer, an artist, uses paint, chalk, etc., to get the point across to the people the Wallst/London Banks/Insurance Co’s are totally corrupt & criminals.

    Vaults of Gold don’t burn! Gold Melts!

    The inside joke is that all JP M………..organ has isn’t real Gold, but paper promises of delivery of real gold. That Paper Burns as it’s not real Gold & is a complete criminal Fraud!

    If you can’t understand their scam, that means you are the victim!

    In my Opinion!

  100. For those that don’t know, it’s an inside joke.

    JP ( Censored, starts with M, ends with Organ) Gold Vault burned yesterday.

    Alex Schaefer, an artist, uses paint, chalk, etc., to get the point across to the people the Wallst/London Banks/Insurance Co’s are totally corrupt & criminals.

    Vaults of Gold don’t burn! Gold Melts!

    The inside joke is that all JP ( Censored, starts with M, ends with Organ) has isn’t real Gold, but paper promises of delivery of real gold. That Paper Burns as it’s not real Gold & is a complete criminal Fraud!

    If you can’t understand their scam, that means you are the victim!

  101. Regarding the polio vaccine: Since 2000, the only vaccine recommended and used in the USA is the IPV (Inactivated Polio Vaccine)–or the one that has a killed virus and cannot cause polio.

  102. A new study is the latest research failing to find a connection between autism and vaccines.
    Liz Szabo
    USA TODAY
    March 29, 2013
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/29/vaccine-schedule-autism/2026617/

    Excerpt:
    At least 10% of parents of young children skip or delay routine vaccinations, often out of concern that kids are getting “too many shots, too soon.”

    A new study finds that children who receive the full schedule of vaccinations have no increased risk of autism.

    “This is a very important and reassuring study,” says Geraldine Dawson, chief science officer at Autism Speaks, who wasn’t involved in the new paper. “This study shows definitively that there is no connection between the number of vaccines that children receive in childhood, or the number of vaccines that children receive in one day, and autism.”

    The study, published today in the Journal of Pediatrics, is the latest of more than 20 studies showing no connection between autism and vaccines, given either individually or as part of the standard schedule. The paper is the first to consider not just the number of vaccines, but a child’s total exposure to the substances inside vaccines that trigger an immune response.

    Study authors say they sought to address the fear that multiple vaccines are “overwhelming” children’s immune system, possibly contributing to long-term problems. Twenty years ago, children were vaccinated against nine diseases. Today, they’re vaccinated against 14, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which funded the study.

    Though kids get more needle sticks, the next-generation vaccines they receive are easier on the immune system than those used two decades ago, says Frank DeStefano, lead author of the new paper and director of the Immunization Safety Office at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    That’s because modern vaccines are more sophisticated, using just a few critical particles — called antigens — to stimulate the immune system, DeStefano says. These antigens, found on the surfaces of bacteria and viruses, spur the body to make antibodies, which block future infections.

  103. “Are you suggesting that Alex Jones is on the FBI payroll?
    And if you are concerned about the business of spreading fear, what the hell are you pedaling?”

    Justateacher,

    Yes I am suggesting that based on the fact that many that the technique of buying off people in the information dissemination business has been a technique of our Government via the CMIC for quite a long time.

    Now what I’m “peddling”, as I’ve always tried to do in my life is a sense of the reality beyond the reality that has been fed to us through our lifetimes. I can of course be criticized because perhaps the “reality” I have is subjective and certainly in my writing I have never urged people to take my version on faith. I personally question all authority, so I always invite people to make their own independent judgments upon the logic of my thought and the validity of the evidence I back it up with.

    My aim is not to lead any movement except that which urges all people to question all those who presume to be authorities (including me), with the end that each person learns to rely on their independent judgment based on their own testing of evidence. As I keep telling people, I don’t believe in any “Isms” and feel that “Isms” are the means whereby the powerful and/or sociopathic control the world. To me the ills of the world are based in the psychology of us humans which differs little from that of the Great Apes. We construct hierarchies among ourselves and manage society based on these rigid structures that in the end are incapable of rapid adaptation to changing situations and so lead to the conflict and despair among us. The success of any political philosophy will not change things unless we as humans adapt to a different societal model. That this hierarchical structure is probably learned behavior is illustrated by the study of the Bonobo’s, who are as genetically close to us as the Great Apes. Their societal systems are mainly conflict free as opposed the the societies of the Great Apes and the Chimpanzees.

    Which leads me to your last question which implies that what I do is spread fear also. I can see how trying to get people to see beyond the “reality” foisted upon them might be inferred as spreading fear, yet that would I think mis-characterize what I’m doing. I don’t live my life in fear, which is not to say that situation-ally I can’t be afraid. Only a fool is never afraid of the potential dangers in life, yet that fear is more about the awareness of immediate danger, rather than anxiety about the myriad possibilities in life of danger. As I write this I am sitting outside under an old, large tree. It is theoretically possible that as I sit here the tree will sudden collapse crushing me. I can choose to sit here anxiously scanning the tree every few seconds to assure myself I’m safe. That would be neurotic anxiety and ultimately destructive to my mental health.

    Government, Religions, Political Partisans, Corporations, the Military and the Intelligence Services use the Media to create fear. This fear can take many forms, but its ultimate result for so many of us humans is to allow us to be herded like cattle into violence, hatred and ultimately existential paralysis. The difference between me and someone like Alex Jones is that what I say is done not to terrify people about the world around them while making a handsome profit. My urging to people is to comprehend the world around them and thereby increase their personal awareness. I believe that if more people became aware of the true state of the world around them, there would be a possibility for lasting change. If one is really aware of their environment they can learn to change it. The problem is that most of us are blinded by the fear mongers among us creating a terrifying reality that engenders an almost perpetual state of fear.

    You will note that I’m answering you without sarcasm and dismissal of your words, merely with an honest statement of where I am coming from, which you can accept, or not, as is your wont.

  104. Mike,

    I’m glad you didn’t snark your reply as I think the question was thought provoking as was your answer.

  105. Mike,

    Your reply is straightforward, serious, and without sarcasm. Those are your qualities that I always admire and respect. The conspiracies – not so much.

    I’m pressed for time so I can’t go into the larger question, spreading fear, but I will say your reply about a specific person, Alex Jones, is mush. May I try again? Is Alex Jones on the payroll of the FBI? Also, I looked around and find nothing about Elridge Cleaver and Elijah Muhammad being linked to the FBI. How about some backup?

  106. ** Mike Spindell 1, July 18, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Michael B,

    Discussions here are at times messy because so many of us here take the original proposition and run with it bssed on our own perceptions. I agree though that the basic issue is the idea of whether the US still functions as a representative republic, much less a democracy. My own view is that it no longer is a functioning republic. I see it as a feudalistic oligarchy, where some freedom remains for us masses, simply because the oligarchs are too self centered to cooperate. My fear is that a strong leader will arise who is so sociopathically remote, like Hitler, or Stalin and the ballgame will be over, so to speak. A great movie meditation on this was in Visconti’s “The Damned”, from the 60′s. It showed a powerful industrial dynasty in pre WWII Germany who backed Hitler, thinking they could control him, only to be destroyed by the NAZI’s they helped put in power.

    The issue of what is happening to our country is far too urgent to argue it in terms of individual political memes, like Left and Right, but then again those memes are the fodder for the propaganda that has allowed this state of affairs to come about.
    **

    http://jonathanturley.org/2013/07/18/carter-the-united-states-has-no-functioning-democracy/,

    Mike S,

    JP Morgan had a hand in building the Nazis.

    They are currently receiving part of 85 billion a month in taxpayer backed welfare.

    I know them , other wallst/London firms, as being responsible for most murders, crime & corruption.

    We may never know of a hidden agenda of Jones/Infowars, but we can judge infowars & JPM by their fruits.

    BTW, I see Jamie Dimon got his fire put out over night, but it’s still smoldering. :)

    When it finally goes it’ll be ugly for a bit.

  107. Many thanks to Mike Spindell for this well written and relevant post. Also I would like to thank all the commenters who posted links to information concerning the crash of Michael Hastings.

    I have a question for Otteray Scribe: I do respect very much your comments and have learned from each of them. I was wondering if you have ever read the book American Assassination, the strange death of Senator Paul Wellstone by Four Arrows and Jim Fetzer. I read it some time ago and came away convinced that Wellstone was murdered. It seems that the cover-up attempts are what convince me in the end. The same can be said concerning the December 12, 1985 crash in Gander, Newfoundland of Arrow Air military charter flight where 250 American soldiers were killed. There is evidence of a cover-up in that crash also. It seems we are always told of pilot error, weather, icing, etc in the case of plane crashes…but then there is seemingly actions on the part of government entities that appear to cover-up evidence. What are we to believe?

  108. RE: Oky1 1, July 22, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Discussions here are at times messy because so many of us here take the original proposition and run with it bssed on our own perceptions.

    Oky1 : thanks for the reply. I realize now that this board is not going to be able to keep any sort of focus on any given point… So I have put my 2pence in the ring and will let it lie.

    But since you say again some version of the conversation I had with GeneH earlier about the general principle of this board being free speech, and then others who made the comment that “that’s what scroll bars are for” as a way to say skip what you don’t like…. I’ll simply reply that free speech can, and obviously does, too often lead to irrelevant speech. Free and unconstrained.

    What else to call the completely disassociated postings from GodFather, as as well as the less hyperbolically disassociated ones?

    And the damage that is done to discourse is just that…. There is none. Or none that can get thru the piled high bullshit.

    So even in this thread the post begins with a fair conversation about the event of Michael Hastings death and its suspicious circumstances; concludes with some v.good reflections and questions. From there the commetariat on this blog spin into an array of non sequiturs that make it impossible to actually carry a thought from one post to another.

    So it is. It is the way this board is organized. And so I, at least, have offered my bits, and have been voted down and educated as to how things are. This is also a form of democracy.

    But, since you opened the door I’ll say one last time : the original blog posts often seem to me to serve an important journalistic and educational function. And JT is a good mind who has a good way of offering the various points and to adroitly contextualize the story. So all that is good and reason to stay in the game.
    And sometimes the comments actually stay on point long enough to solicit a good idea or two… But, in my experience, it hasn’t been able to last for very long.
    A thread or two, and then off we go into some odd irrelevancy. How in the heck do we get into the swirl of vaccines when talking about the implications of Hastings’ death?!
    The point maybe worthy of its own post and examination. But why does every conversation about anything have to end up in these dead end eddies?

    You say it is due to ‘running with the point according to our “own perceptions”. Fair enough. That much is obvious.
    It was my wan hope that a board hosted by JT and visited by other luminaries that we would get some actual illumination on the matters at hand.

    One last point and then out: It is my underlying premise that bad thinking, and consequent bad choices leading to v.bad outcomes is the underlying cause for the various troubles we find ourselves in as a country: socially, constitutionally, internationally, in every way. All very well documented here on the JT blog. And it is only better, deeper, more systemic, more meaningful thinking that can lead to meaningful action that can (might?) solve/resolve these troubles and problems. Again, something I had high hopes for on first encountering this board.

    To find that any point/story/event/post, no matter how important or salient or sharp can be dulled by any diversion into any other idea or point related or not, and then have the thread essentially spin out in essentially dogmatic rants of one sort of another; All because, as you say “we run with it according to our own perceptions” is, to me disappointing.
    Oh well. That is the way it is, and it doesn’t matter any more. I got it.

    However, I’ll leave the rant with this rant and accusation : that while there is value in being able to speak your mind, to boldly go where one has always and only ever gone before — it is of course important and a foundational stone of freedom and liberty. But I question whether treating every post/thought as an opportunity to segue into ones standard bits just because it is what is on ones mind, irrespective of any actual relationship to the underlying topic,
    while “free” does not actually serve the purpose of inquiry and advancing knowledge and insight. Much less any sort of focus that might lead to meaningful action.

    I know. I know. People are gathered here and encouraged to take the conversation where ever they want, as you have so well said. And so it is.
    It just means that it isnt something else : a place to actually engage with smart people in a focused way, to stay on point, and learn something new.
    Not that it cant happen. It has from time to time. Of course.

    Wisdom is to take things as they are and not try and change them. It is wisdom therefore to recognize what this part of the public square is and revel in that. And that is what I hope to do going forward.

    Thanks
    Michael.

  109. RE: Oky1 1, July 22, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Discussions here are at times messy because so many of us here take the original proposition and run with it bssed on our own perceptions.

    Oky1 : thanks for the reply. I realize now that this board is not going to be able to keep any sort of focus on any given point… So I have put my 2pence in the ring and will let it lie.

    But since you raise again some version of the conversation I had with GeneH earlier about the general principle of this board being free speech, and then others who made the comment that “that’s what scroll bars are for” as a way to say skip what you don’t like…. I’ll simply reply that free speech can, and obviously does, too often lead to irrelevant speech. Free and unconstrained.

    What else to call the completely disassociated postings from GodFather, as as well as the less hyperbolically disassociated ones?

    And the damage that is done to discourse is just that…. There is none. Or none that can get thru the piled high bullshit.

    So even in this thread the post begins with a fair conversation about the event of Michael Hastings death and its suspicious circumstances; concludes with some v.good reflections and questions. From there the commetariat on this blog sometimes spin into an array of non sequiturs that make it impossible to actually carry a thought from one post to another.

    So it is. It is the way this board is organized. And so I, at least, have offered my bits, and have been voted down and educated as to how things are. This is also a form of democracy.

    But, since you opened the door I’ll say one last time : the original blog posts often seem to me to serve an important journalistic and educational function. And JT is a good mind who has a good way of offering the various points and to adroitly contextualize the story. So all that is good and reason to stay in the game.
    And sometimes the comments actually stay on point long enough to solicit a good idea or two… But, in my experience, it hasn’t been able to last for very long. So the conversation doesn’t get a chance to build. Like trying to build a fire but not stacking the firewood pieces next to each other. Not much happens after all.
    A thread or two, and then off we go into some odd irrelevancy. How in the heck do we get into the swirl of vaccines when talking about the implications of Hastings’ death?!
    The point maybe worthy of its own post and examination. But why does every conversation about anything have to end up in these dead end eddies?

    You say it is due to ‘running with the point according to our “own perceptions”. Fair enough. That much is obvious.
    It was my wan hope that a board hosted by JT and visited by other luminaries that we would get some actual illumination on the matters at hand.

    One last point and then out: It is my underlying premise that bad thinking, and consequent bad choices leading to v.bad outcomes is the underlying cause for the various troubles we find ourselves in as a country: socially, constitutionally, internationally, in every way. All very well documented here on the JT blog. It is only better, deeper, more systemic, more meaningful thinking that can lead to meaningful action that can (might?) solve/resolve these troubles and problems. Again, something I had high hopes for on first encountering this board.

    To find that any point/story/event/post, no matter how important or salient or sharp can be dulled by any diversion into any other idea or point related or not, and then have the thread essentially spin out in essentially dogmatic rants of one sort of another; All because, as you say “we run with it according to our own perceptions” is, to me disappointing.
    Oh well. That is the way it is, and it doesn’t matter any more. I got it.

    However, I’ll leave the rant with this rant and accusation : that while there is value in being able to speak your mind, to boldly go where one has always and only ever gone before, is of course important and a foundational stone of freedom and liberty. But I question whether treating every post/thought as an opportunity to segue into ones standard shibboleths just because it is what is on ones mind, irrespective of any actual relationship to the underlying topic serves the Public Square. While certainly “free” it does not necessarily serve the purpose of inquiry and advancing knowledge and insight. Much less any sort of focus that might lead to meaningful action.

    I know. I know. People are gathered here and encouraged to take the conversation where ever they want, as you have so well said. And so it is.
    It just means that it isnt something else : a place to actually engage with smart people in a focused way, to stay on point, and learn something new.
    Not that it cant happen. It has from time to time. Of course. I don’t mean to make my charges in the same “primary colors” that I am reacting against in other places.

    Wisdom is to take things as they are and not try and change them. It is wisdom therefore to recognize what this part of the public square is and revel in that. And that is what I hope to do going forward.

    Thanks
    Michael.

  110. RE: Oky1 1, July 22, 2013 at 11:43 am

    Discussions here are at times messy because so many of us here take the original proposition and run with it bssed on our own perceptions.

    Oky1 : thanks for the reply. I realize now that this board is not going to be able to keep any sort of focus on any given point… So I have put my 2pence in the ring and will let it lie.

    But since you raise again some version of the conversation I had with GeneH earlier about the general principle of this board being free speech, and then others who made the comment that “that’s what scroll bars are for” as a way to say skip what you don’t like…. I’ll simply reply that free speech can, and obviously does, too often lead to irrelevant speech. Free and unconstrained.

    What else to call the completely disassociated postings from GodFather, as as well as the less hyperbolically disassociated ones?

    And the damage that is done to discourse is just that…. There is none. Or none that can get thru the piled high bullshit.

    So even in this thread the post begins with a fair conversation about the event of Michael Hastings death and its suspicious circumstances; concludes with some v.good reflections and questions. From there the commetariat on this blog sometimes spin into an array of non sequiturs that make it impossible to actually carry a thought from one post to another.

    So it is. It is the way this board is organized. And so I, at least, have offered my bits, and have been voted down and educated as to how things are. This is also a form of democracy.

    But, since you opened the door I’ll say one last time : the original blog posts often seem to me to serve an important journalistic and educational function. And JT is a good mind who has a good way of offering the various points and to adroitly contextualize the story. So all that is good and reason to stay in the game.
    And sometimes the comments actually stay on point long enough to solicit a good idea or two… But, in my experience, it hasn’t been able to last for very long. So the conversation doesn’t get a chance to build. Like trying to build a fire but not stacking the firewood pieces next to each other. Not much happens after all.
    A thread or two, and then off we go into some odd irrelevancy. How in the heck do we get into the swirl of vaccines when talking about the implications of Hastings’ death?!
    The point maybe worthy of its own post and examination. But why does every conversation about anything have to end up in these dead end eddies?

    You say it is due to ‘running with the point according to our “own perceptions”. Fair enough. That much is obvious.
    It was my wan hope that a board hosted by JT and visited by other luminaries that we would get some actual illumination on the matters at hand.

    One last point and then out: It is my underlying premise that bad thinking, and consequent bad choices leading to v.bad outcomes is the underlying cause for the various troubles we find ourselves in as a country: socially, constitutionally, internationally, in every way. All very well documented here on the JT blog. It is only better, deeper, more systemic, more meaningful thinking that can lead to meaningful action that can (might?) solve/resolve these troubles and problems. Again, something I had high hopes for on first encountering this board.

    To find that any point/story/event/post, no matter how important or salient or sharp can be dulled by any diversion into any other idea or point related or not, and then have the thread essentially spin out in essentially dogmatic rants of one sort of another; All because, as you say “we run with it according to our own perceptions” is, to me disappointing.
    Oh well. That is the way it is, and it doesn’t matter any more. I got it.

    However, I’ll leave the rant with this rant and accusation : that while there is value in being able to speak your mind, to boldly go where one has always and only ever gone before, is of course important and a foundational stone of freedom and liberty. But I question whether treating every post/thought as an opportunity to segue into ones standard shibboleths just because it is what is on ones mind, irrespective of any actual relationship to the underlying topic serves the Public Square. While certainly “free” it does not necessarily serve the purpose of inquiry and advancing knowledge and insight. Much less any sort of focus that might lead to meaningful action.

    I know. I know. People are gathered here and encouraged to take the conversation where ever they want, as you have so well said. And so it is.
    It just means that it isnt something else : a place to actually engage with smart people in a focused way, to stay on point, and learn something new.
    Not that it cant happen. It has from time to time. Of course. I don’t mean to make my charges in the same “primary colors” that I am reacting against in other places.

    Wisdom is to take things as they are and not try and change them. It is wisdom therefore to recognize what this part of the public square is and revel in that. And that is what I hope to do going forward.

    Thanks
    Michael

  111. Michael Beaton,

    Thanks for your reasoned response, but I feel I should plea the “I see nothing” Sgt Schultz defense & blame everything on Mike S.

    **Am I being unfair in speculating that perhaps the death of this Journalist, three years after this article, may well have been payback? Who knows, not I, but my senses tell me that there are at least two scenario’s whereby Michael Hastings death may be no accident. One could be the government itself, or certain parts of it related to the CMIC and another could be those able to take revenge on someone who in their opinion “brought a good man down to the detriment of our country”. I doubt that the public will ever know the truth if the death was not accidental and really that is not my point in writing this. What I’m trying to bring out is that beyond the unconstitutional behavior of our government in the name of “National Security”, which escalated after 9/11, a situation which in itself is terrible, is the heightened speculation and concomitant loss of faith in our government which follows in its wake. We are supposed to be a nation that exists under the rule of law and guided by our Constitution. How can we maintain faith in these institutions if we suspect that those in government or in the Corporate/Military/Intelligence Complex are able to act outside the law with impunity? What do you think?

    Submitted By: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger **

    (Sgt Schultz below)

  112. I am not one who usually buys into conspiracy theories. What gave me pause was that they found the engine of the vehicle 100 yards away.

    I have seen many an accident in my travels up and down I-95 and the Florida Turnpike. Anyone ever see an engine ejected like that? This wasn’t a Yugo – this was a Mercedes. Seems to me they are built a little better than to have the engine eject like that.

  113. Very good post, Michael Beaton. I’ll say Amen to that, but not to your posting it three successive times!

  114. Michael,

    I just follow the luminaries. Can’t help but be a little disappointed when their light shines but dully.

    My biggest hard-to-confess secret? Life can never be unjust, only unfathomable. Makes it a tad easier to move past the dullness.

    Enjoyed your piece.

  115. “But, since you opened the door I’ll say one last time : the original blog posts often seem to me to serve an important journalistic and educational function. And JT is a good mind who has a good way of offering the various points and to adroitly contextualize the story. So all that is good and reason to stay in the game. And sometimes the comments actually stay on point long enough to solicit a good idea or two… But, in my experience, it hasn’t been able to last for very long.”

    Michael B.,

    When I began as a guest blogger the divergence from a topic I had provided distressed me, so I get where you are coming from. however, when I thought about my distress it occurred to me something that I already knew and that is that each of us reacts in our own unique way to a particular stimuli. What we get then in comments is a free form expression of individual impressions of the issue raised. We’re human and so the issue will often go off track and morph into something other than intended by the blogger. I personally prefer that to a rigid system of rules to keep people on track because that would stultify the creativity that comes from a comment from the gut. Bear with us though because your comments have already added value to us all and the nuggets gleaned from the creative mental processes of those who comment are worthwhile whether or not you reject particular ones.

  116. “Mike S,
    JP Morgan had a hand in building the Nazis.
    They are currently receiving part of 85 billion a month in taxpayer backed welfare.”

    Oky1,

    We agree on much and disagree on much, but your contributions are always welcome. I do disagree with what I think is your point on many of your comments and that could be summarized as “how can you focus on this alone when there are so much more pressing issues to deal with?” What I think you miss is this. I’m quite aware of the JP Morgan Nazi connection as I am with the Prescott Bush/Dulles Brothers connection. If you look at my entire body of work here you might notice it all dovetails into one coherent whole. The problem is that a blog is at best 1,800 to 3,200 words and so of necessity must focus on a few issues that make up the whole of the problems of this country and this world. Had I the competence, stamina and cohesive thought of people like Joseph Campbell, William Gibbon, or Will and Ariel Durant I might come up with a series of tomes fully elucidating what’s going on as I see it. I have neither their talent, nor their stamina and so like the blind men and the elephant I pick a particular body part to focus on each week, with the full understanding that I am not fully describing the whole animal..

  117. Mike Spindell 1, July 21, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    … I’m merely saying that I have severe doubts about Alex Joneses integrity.
    ===============================
    One certainty that exposes him as a high percent tool is that he is a climate change denier.

    To rationalize that denialism requires removal of a lot of cognitive ability.

    Which usually flows from some illicit relationship to Oil-Qaeda.

    And it also tells us that the epigovernment generates a lot of conspiracy data with which to build “conspiracy theories” so as to dilute the legitimate data paths leading to the real conspiracies.

  118. “May I try again? Is Alex Jones on the payroll of the FBI?”

    My answer is clear which is how would I know that for a fact? The real question should be do I think he might be in the employ of some forces related to the CMIC for disinformation purposes and my answer is that is a definite possibility based on past history. You’ve heard I presume of “COINTELPRO” and their subverting members of the Movement via the use of paid agents? They were the ones who were always trying to produce more violent protests and demonstrations. From what I know of Jones he could well fit the bill in this day and age.

    However, as in this particular guest blog and in all my others I take pains to assure people that what I am presenting is my own personal speculation based on my examination of the evidence I present. I have no special knowledge of the workings of the “permanent government”, only the power of my own surmises, which you can accept or reject.

    “Also, I looked around and find nothing about Elridge Cleaver and Elijah Muhammad being linked to the FBI. How about some backup?”

    Regarding Elijah Muhammad speculation about his FBI ties goes back to his attendance at a Ku Klux Klan Convention in the late 50’s as reported in life magazine and runs to the murder of Malcolm X where the FBI and police had “withdrawn” their protection of Malcolm the day of his shooting. The thought at the time was that Luis Farrakhan was behind the shooting as an agent of Muhammad. The Nation of Islam, with its Black separatist agenda was approved of by the segregationists and by J.Edgar Hoover (an arch segregationist). When Malcolm X had his revelation that Whites and Blacks should join together in a movement for freedom he became a threat to both the FBI and Muhammad.

    As for Cleaver look at this rather tame Wiki article and tell me how he managed to return to the U.S. and had his attempted murder charges dropped? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eldridge_Cleaver Back in the Movement days in the 60’s, in which I played a very minor part, it was common speculation that Cleaver was a government plant. There are other things but I too am pressed for time. As far as government plants in various movements look up the Senator Frank Church hearings on the CIA’s involvement in domestic issues that gave its report in the later 70’s.

  119. “I see nothing” Sgt Schultz defense & blame everything on Mike S.”

    I don’t get no respect. :)

  120. “One certainty that exposes him as a high percent tool is that he is a climate change denier.”

    Dredd,

    Good point. When is someone who claims to be a rebel, not really a rebel but a tool? When they act like one.

  121. Mike Spindell 1, July 22, 2013 at 10:33 am

    Government, Religions, Political Partisans, Corporations, the Military and the Intelligence Services use the Media to create fear. This fear can take many forms, but its ultimate result for so many of us humans is to allow us to be herded like cattle into violence, hatred and ultimately existential paralysis. The difference between me and someone like Alex Jones is that what I say is done not to terrify people about the world around them while making a handsome profit.

    =============================
    Indeed.

    But let’s think about the concurrent prong of that exercise.

    The bait for avoiding the fear is used at the same time by the more sophisticate propagandists.

    The “way out of the fear” technique if you will.

    The human fear of death is used to advantage by Alex Jones in his climate change denialism.

    The more sophisticated and connected elements who use the fear of death syndrome use a concurrent tactic of superheroes as a form of salvation from the fear of death (On The Glut of Superhero Movies).

    There has been a surge of those movies with a specific purpose.

    As you say there is some herding calculation going on behind the scenes.

    Hastings was not deterred very much by all of that.

  122. A Jones is very sharp, that’s a fact.

    But notice he says that coal fired power plants only put out harmless CO2.

    He’s lying & he knows it, but he’s playing to his audience. Lots of people work or invest in coal, oil, NG….

    Coal first tears up the land, pollutes the water with things like mercury & arsenic.

    And out of their smoke stacks also comes SO2, & again mercury, arsenic.

    Sometimes we have to make choices, but we should at least be honest & attempt to balance what we need against the risk.

    Also that Climate Change stuff is a scam. It’s a known fact wallst is pushing that to create a huge new market for trading CO2 contracts.

    How about we just take as much pollution out of our activities as we can & forget about a new big taxes so wallst can pollute even more?

    So if people wish to attack Jones I’d suggest the try to do so with facts as slander normally only hurts those that are putting it out.

  123. MS If you read The Autobiography of Malcolm X, he tells the story of how he went to meetings with the Nazis and the KKK since they had the same agenda as the Black Muslims. He was rather disturbed by this at the time, and was one of the things that made him break with the Nation of Islam.

  124. @traveling limey

    Very good post, Michael Beaton. I’ll say Amen to that, but not to your posting it three successive times!

    Thank you… not sure how the multiple posting happened! I didn’t intend to do that! Sometimes the normal way the system accepts a post doesn’t happen. In this case I didn’t see the post at all and figured it just got dropped.
    Apologies for that…It holds no meaning beside operator error. If the dups can be deleted that would be fine by me.

    @Mike Spindell

    What we get then in comments is a free form expression of individual impressions of the issue raised. …. I personally prefer that to a rigid system of rules to keep people on track because that would stultify the creativity that comes from a comment from the gut.

    I appreciate that. You are essentially reiterating the point that we, the commentariat in this blog, are going to reply/respond as they will. Fair enough.

    As for rules, I did not mean to be advocating for a formal rule set against which there would be counted violations. Rather I was advocating for some self awareness on the part of the participants to consider the replies in terms of the article or related issues.

    That said, I do think there is a place for deleting the most irrelevant pieces such as have been exampled by GodFather and others. Those hardly attempt to make a rational sentence much less a point. But, again, I have been schooled. So I let it go.

    How in the world do we hop from Hastings to Prescott Bush? There is a case to be made of course, but it is a large point, somewhat elusive and would require the skill and scope to assemble that you allude to in your reply. Anything less is just full of logical fallacies and/or disassociated assertions. Possibly true, but essentially unfounded and thus…to my original point not advancing knowledge but dispersing it and displacing any focused points that might otherwise have been made.

    What I find interesting is that by such diversions the original point being proffered is fully lost. For example, this post that you wrote, which I quite enjoyed, and appreciated as you could see by my first post in reply above. Here you took the effort to make a case, document it with examples, questions, and suppositions to make a coherent foundation to eventually as these questions:

    What I’m trying to bring out is that beyond the unconstitutional behavior of our government in the name of “National Security”, which escalated after 9/11, a situation which in itself is terrible, is the heightened speculation and concomitant loss of faith in our government which follows in its wake. We are supposed to be a nation that exists under the rule of law and guided by our Constitution. How can we maintain faith in these institutions if we suspect that those in government or in the Corporate/Military/Intelligence Complex are able to act outside the law with impunity? What do you think?

    All that work you did to make THIS example meaningful, instructive and then pose these sharp questions is lost in the welter of others “me too” or “yeah but what about….” posts/ideas.
    This looses the power of the original question(s) and in the end nothing meaningful has been said or learned.

    As far as I recall there was no real attempt to grapple with your questions. And thus we did not reap the full benefit of your efforts. It’s like setting a table full of food and then everyone eating chips.

    That is the casualty I see from the lack of self-controlled focus – as opposed to imposed rules.

    I see the hook coming…so I’ll stop there. Hopefully this bit adds some value to the conversation….

    Thanks
    Michael

  125. Mike S/Michael Beaton,

    ** I have neither their talent, nor their stamina and so like the blind men and the elephant I pick a particular body part to focus on each week, with the full understanding that I am not fully describing the whole animal..**

    Here’s where I started from, from the article & I’ll show you where I went.
    **

    How can we maintain faith in these institutions if we suspect that those in government or in the Corporate/Military/Intelligence Complex are able to act outside the law with impunity? What do you think?

    Submitted By: Mike Spindell, Guest Blogger **

    ** Preamble to the Bill of Rights

    “Congress of the United States begun and held at the City of New York, on Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.

    The Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution expressed a desire in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution. **

    Read more: http://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/preamble-bill-of-rights.html#ixzz2ZowRNpAs

    Notice you used almost the exact language in the PoBoR’s.

    The Preamble is a key piece of the intent to meet the objective of the Declaration of Independence & to fulfill the rest of the USC.

    “We the People”

    That’s not what we have now & that’s the problem that I believe you article ask the question of why, what’s wrong & how do we get back on track.

    I believe we fix the problem by going back to the blueprint for meeting our common objective.

    I think these are clean numbers, 6000 billionaire type own 94% of all the assets of the USA/world. ie; Wallst/London banks/insurance.

    Those 6000 own our DC polecats now & those 6000 billionaires are the very type the go around blowing journalist, poisoning the vaccines/water, etc….

    Under color of Law, those billionaires Wallst/London type assets have been deemed “Critical Infrastructure” , not Hasting, not You or Me & that’s why we have lawlessness today in the US.

    Anyway I understand some of you have your own image of what the outline of the comments should look & that’s good.

  126. @Oky1, yes that is funny! and I suppose if all 6k of these blowhards were to blow mr. hastings or any journalist as you propose that it would have come to the same outcome after all….

  127. “MS If you read The Autobiography of Malcolm X, he tells the story of how he went to meetings with the Nazis and the KKK since they had the same agenda as the Black Muslims. He was rather disturbed by this at the time, and was one of the things that made him break with the Nation of Islam.”

    ArthurRE,

    Thank you. I did read Malcolm X’s biography but the atrophying of my 68 year old brain didn’t bring that knowledge to the forefront, as it should have. you have jogged it out of its semi-coma. Malcolm was also disturbed by Elijah Muhammad’s disdain for MLK and Elijah’s refusal to participate in the civil rights movement. That is where a good part of the speculation about the involvement with the FBI and Cointelpro began.

  128. “All that work you did to make THIS example meaningful, instructive and then pose these sharp questions is lost in the welter of others “me too” or “yeah but what about….” posts/ideas.

    This looses the power of the original question(s) and in the end nothing meaningful has been said or learned.”

    Michael B.,

    I would be untruthful if I didn’t admit that it sometimes frustrates me, but I can only construct what I think is the best I’m capable of producing and hope that some catch my drift. I stated above and I’ll reiterate that Michael Hastings tragic death was used by me as a springboard to explore the larger question of how the country has become inured to extra-constitutional government action.

    Actually though I am rather pleased by the reaction to this piece, my reaction though to this weekend’s guest blogging disappointed me in this respect. Mark Esposito produced what I think is his best work in his guest blog opening up the weekend and that says a lot given his erudition. It was also a guest blog that is so appropriate to the legal system and to the topics of interest here. Mark’s blog garnered far less response then mine and yet his is a far superior piece of work. For those who haven’t read it yet it is here: http://jonathanturley.org/2013/07/20/american-juries-seekers-of-truth-or-mere-consensus-part-i/ .

  129. Mike, I concede. The “definite possibilities” overwhelm. Plus you and Oky are on the same page. I guess that means more Infowars and prisonplanet. That depresses me. As Charlie says:it’s time for a Prestone..

  130. justatreacher,

    I order you not to be depressed!

    The nation is already in a depression dont’cha know.

    Argue the Facts!

    Argue the law!

    If that fails pound the damn table!

    For everything else there’s always double malt scotch or beer, your choice! :)

  131. Back to the mechanics of this case:
    I have been looking for current info re this and did not find any (yet?). I presume some day there will be an official report?

    I did find this
    http://metabunk.org/threads/debunked-michael-hastings-crash-engine-found-north-of-crash-going-south.1964/
    which, while debunking the notion that the engine was not actually behind the vehicle still leaves other, better questions unanswered.
    It has some good maps of the site as well.

    A few questions seems relevant:
    > How does the engine get thrown out of the engine compartment at all? What force is required? How much energy is required?
    > Others have noted that engines don’t typically rip out of the engine compartment. I couldn’t find any stories/info that addressed the necessary conditions for this to happen. And especially on a very well built Mercedes.
    > Presumably the engine had to exit the engine compartment forward, ie, not out the side over the tire well. The photos show the car is pointed into the tree…. How did the engine get out of the compartment before it hit the tree? And if it happened when it hit the tree, how did it exit in a straight line to the original direction of the car and not with the inertial movement of the car at time of impact?
    I suppose these are simply questions that could be answered with some basic physics. So far I haven’t seen anything on these points.
    Do they seem relevant questions?

    On the fire:
    > What was burning so furiously? The flames could not have been gas or only gas could they? It seems too much, to bright to be the cloth and flammable materials in the cockpit.
    And it seems to last too long. Something burning that hot would consume the seats et al, pretty quick leaving perhaps a smoldering fire. The video shows the fire lasting a long time.
    What was feeding the fire?

    And then of course there are the other bits already adduced about why they chose to cremate the body; the email , Richard Clarke, and other details that seem to support some foul play.
    Supposedly someone from WikiLeaks was a confidant on his last email, and presumably his work. What would happen if Wikileaks were to release damning information?
    I wonder if it would displace Snowden as public enemy #1 and reinstate WL/Assange?

    It doesn’t seem out of bounds to think this was an assassination. It does seem unlikey that Obama would have had anything to do with it, as has been suggested in other posts. Even if he did, what are the mechanics of this event? And what are the learnings for us “out here”?
    Those are the consequent questions on my mind.

    I wonder if these questions about the apparent facts of the crash are relevant to the larger discussion? And if anyone has seen anything that addresses them. Even on the simple physics basis.

  132. Michael B.,

    Thank you for turning me on to the Metabunk website, so far it looks very promising and I’ve bookmarked it for continued reading.

  133. “Plus you and Oky are on the same page. I guess that means more Infowars and prisonplanet.”

    Justateacher,

    You rush too quickly to judgment. Oky and I were on the same page on his specific comment at 8:19pm. As to the others I’ve disagreed and agreed with him in specific comments. That’s how I operate. I try not to exclude the thought of people because of their politics, if their thoughts make sense to me. to do otherwise would be to close my mind. As I’ve stated before, I don’t believe in “Isms”.

  134. @MikeS. I hope you’ll keep the thread posted as to your finds.

    Curious what you think of my questions and intention to run at least 2 tracks on this conversation. ie, 1) determine the actual physical evidence , in cluding getting v.clear on what is actually possible and impossible from a physics POV as a way to shape and frame 2) the more subjective, conspiratorial aspects/possibilities.

    Someone in this thread, maybe you?, declaimed the tendency for everything to be a conspiracy. I get the sentiment. I also get that the gov and its assigns seems to be capable of anything if it suits their needs, however limited and blinkered they may be. (“Invade Iraq!? Why sure… no problem, they’ll be tossing flowers in no time…” … oops… now what? — Just say’n sometimes the actions are not well thought out. ).

    Anyway… I like the idea of having all the obvious evidence line up and be consistent with any more soft theories, no matter how juicy they may be otherwise.
    For example, until we get quite clear on how that engine got where it was it seems we are missing foundational information.

    Sometimes I think we go the other way in this progression: Start with the conspiracy and then fit the data to what we want or need to believe.


    Finally, I will make another nod to your original, larger questions. I don’t think those are “conspiratorial” at all. But are essential. I wonder how a thread could be engaged that attempted to parse the meaning and implications of that line of thinking. That would be rich.

    And finally, finally: as a result of all that stomping about I did yesterday I found a way to go back and find some of your prior writing. Good stuff. Esp some of that stuff re Kent State.

    Michael

  135. Michael,

    I haven’t seen all the video below.

    Sgt Biggs is a friend of Hastings.

    He didn’t seem to like the way other media treated him so he went to Infowars.

    Sgt Biggs & Jones worked out details for Biggs & infowars reporters to go to Cali & dig around.

    They should be there now & reports soon.

  136. Oky Mike ain’t got no facts. Mike ain’t got no law. Mike has speculation and “definite possibilities”.

    Mike reminds us of the counter-intelligence tactics used by the FBI. A favorite was the destroy and divide by rumor. Those rumors that Mike recalls have a “definite possibility” of having been initiated by the FBI.

    Mike often writes passionately and with much empathy about truth and justice. He also suspects/suggests, or something, Alex Jones of being an agent provacatuer. On what evidence? He just sorta fits the pattern (in Mike’s worldview)? Strikes me that that was the way Zimmerman’s mind worked when he first spotted Trayvon.

    There was a guy in the 50’s who worked in a similar way. Except he wrote a list of names on a piece of paper, waved it around, and said these men all worked at the State Department. He wasn’t harmless. And this piece isn’t harmless either. And I don’t think I need to spell out why.

  137. @Just~ : which Mike are you referring to? Mike S. the poster, or the Hastings, the “victim”. And what world view?

    And why are we still debating, or/and making Infowars the subject? It does seem to me that regardless of source of information, infowars or national enquirer, eventually anything that is of value must be also part of the public domain outside these sources that are, do we not all agree, if not tainted, at least easily dismissed.
    Rush Limbaugh might actually say something true and in the odd chance even worth while from time to time. But if it happened I would expect the point to be also available in other places.

    Anyway.. that’s my take on the alex jones debate. Take it for what it is worth (not much) , but don’t try to validate the whole from any particular part.

  138. Andrew Neil calls Alex Jones an idiot in Sunday Politics clash
    US shock jock lambasted by BBC TV presenter after interrupting fellow guest to warn viewers over ‘Bilderberg Group puppeteers’
    Alexandra Topping
    guardian.co.uk
    Sunday 9 June 2013
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/09/andrew-neil-alex-jones-sunday-politics

    Excerpt:
    The BBC’s Sunday Politics show is generally a rather sedate affair, heavy on serious interviews and light on controversy. But viewers were treated to a highly charged confrontation between host Andrew Neil and US conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, which saw the latter labelled the worst person to be interviewed on the show and an idiot.

    The shock jock had been invited on the show alongside journalist David Aaronovitch to discuss the secretive Bilderberg conference, which has been taking place near Watford over the past week.

    But having been asked on several occasions to let his co-guest speak, Jones launched into a tirade about several conspiracy theories detailed on his website…

    After being told several times to try not to dominate the conversation, Jones appeared to lose his temper, shouting: “Hey listen, I’m here to warn people; you keep telling me to shut up. This isn’t a game. Our government, the US, is building Fema [Federal Emergency Management Agency] camps…

    Taking to Twitter after the show Neil said Jones had played up for the camera. “The moment Alex Jones knew he was no longer on air he stopped,” he wrote. Jones is renowned for his “shock jock” tactics and came to the attention of the British public after calling for Piers Morgan to be deported from the US for his views on gun control.

  139. I can understand why conspiracy arguments have been advanced about Michael Hastings, 911, Paul Wellstone, JFK Jr., JFK, RFK, and MLK because the official explanations don’t fit the facts, there were no real investigations of those deaths, there were cover-ups of the facts that did not comport with the official explanations, and other myriad issues.

    But the most powerful conspiracy case to date is the recent news that George Zimmerman, who had been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle. According to the report, Zimmerman was one of two men who came to the aid of Dana and Mark Gerstle and their two children, who were trapped inside a blue Ford Explorer SUV that had rolled over after traveling off the highway in Sanford, Fla. at approximately 5:45 p.m. Thursday, the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office said in a statement. The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route Route 46, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where Zimmerman shot Martin. By the time police arrived, two people – including Zimmerman – had already helped the family get out of the overturned car, the sheriff’s office said. No one was reported to be injured. Zimmerman was not a witness to the crash and left after speaking with the deputy, police said.

    Clearly, the evidence points to this being a staged accident, and Dana and Mark Gerstle and their two children are actually unknowing coconspirators in this staged event. The Gerstles were actually captured by a black operations subgroup of the NRA and given special drugs and a series of hypnotic treatments following the procedures learned from the MK-Ultra program of mind-control. The Gerstles were obviously programmed to believe that they were in an accident, so that when Zimmerman “rescued” them, they would tell the story of how “heroic” Zimmerman was, and what a good Samaritan he was.

    The black ops unit then had the Gerstles ride in their SUV along I-4 and Route 46, at which time they seized electronic control over the Gerstles vehicle, causing it to overturn. The NRA blacks ops unit and Zimmerman had obviously conspired to “reinvent” Zimmerman as a hero and good Samaritan, to counter the real truth about him. So far, the media is very smart though, and they aren’t giving this story anywhere near the same follow-up that they did on the Trayvon Marton death, and that is a good thing. Zimmerman and the NRA blacks ops were very clever in creating and executing this scam, but the media has seen through it all, and is not following up on the story to find out how the Gerstles are doing or to get their side of the story. I personally, however, would like to see interviews of them, as I believe that the evidence will show that they have been hypnotized through the MK-Ultra program.

  140. “Curious what you think of my questions and intention to run at least 2 tracks on this conversation. ie, 1) determine the actual physical evidence , in cluding getting v.clear on what is actually possible and impossible from a physics POV as a way to shape and frame 2) the more subjective, conspiratorial aspects/possibilities.”

    Michael B,

    As far as the physical evidence goes I’m not at all sure that more will come out and this is also what I was getting at in my piece. If it was murder, than my assumption is that as many tracks as possible have been covered by the murderers and we will see little more physical evidence. If it was an accident then who among us will believe any further physical evidence produced. This is because with the Snowden revelations, with Wikileaks and with Manning, we have seen enough to know that things are going on out of sight of the public and therefore the government is not to be trusted on any matters they deem vital to national security.

    “I like the idea of having all the obvious evidence line up and be consistent with any more soft theories, no matter how juicy they may be otherwise.”

    I think most of us would like that but one of the things I’ve found in life is that the answers and evidence often are impossible to put in clean logical patterns.

    “And finally, finally: as a result of all that stomping about I did yesterday I found a way to go back and find some of your prior writing.”

    You can access everything I’ve written here by typing: Mike Spindell into the search box at the upper right. You can do that for all the guest bloggers. Professor Turley’s is harder to get through without a specific topic since he has written so much on so many different subjects.

  141. Elaine M. 1, July 22, 2013 at 8:33 am

    A new study is the latest research failing to find a connection between autism and vaccines.
    Liz Szabo
    USA TODAY
    March 29, 2013
    **usatoday**

    **

    Study authors say they sought to address the fear that multiple vaccines are “overwhelming” children’s immune system, possibly contributing to long-term problems. Twenty years ago, children were vaccinated against nine diseases. Today, they’re vaccinated against 14, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which funded the study. **

    **, says Frank DeStefano, lead author of the new paper and director of the Immunization Safety Office at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. **

    Elaine,

    Why should anyone believe this new study funded by a bureaucracy, an out of control outfit that has consistently been caught lying to the people/kids & has sold out to corporate interest?

    ie: Per MS synopsis.

    The people are so foolish/lazy they can’t even get the Rat Poison/sodium Fluoride out of the water with plenty of good studies & the EPA admitting that it’s deadly.

    And then there’s this angle of your post.

    Is this new study part of the govt’s new propaganda program they are rolling out that rafflaw’s piece here exposes?

    Is everyone starting to see the trouble with the govt lying to us all the time now? It violates the intent of the Preamble of the Bill of Rights.

    http://jonathanturley.org/2013/07/21/is-freedom-of-the-press-dead/

  142. “Oky Mike ain’t got no facts. Mike ain’t got no law. Mike has speculation and “definite possibilities”.

    Mike reminds us of the counter-intelligence tactics used by the FBI. A favorite was the destroy and divide by rumor. Those rumors that Mike recalls have a “definite possibility” of having been initiated by the FBI.

    Mike often writes passionately and with much empathy about truth and justice. He also suspects/suggests, or something, Alex Jones of being an agent provacatuer. On what evidence? He just sorta fits the pattern (in Mike’s worldview)? Strikes me that that was the way Zimmerman’s mind worked when he first spotted Trayvon.”

    Justateacher you’ve got me dead to rights I can’t go on with this any more, though it will cost me lots of money. I’m really a thirty five year old bi-sexual woman, who works for the ultra secret Agency known as AUNT (Americans United for National Tribulations). My grade there was Dissembler III and I was up for the position of Supervising Dissembler I, until you exposed me. I’ve been drummed out of the service, literally and now will have to fall back on my Master’s Degree in Automobile Salesmanship (MDAS) from George Mason University Online. I have been offered a franchise to sell Russian Volgas in Salt Lake City and I’m pondering it. This will be backed financially by my friends in the Illuminati.

    As you might have guessed we have been targeting Alex Jones for quite awhile now since he is the only person in America who has decoded the Rosetta Stone of the American government using a Buck Rogers decoder ring he stole from the Library of Congress, where it was hidden in plain sight. That ring has been handed down for over 5,500 years by the Illuminati. Though it has undergone many name changes, its original name was “The Ring of Lilith” (consort of Yahweh) and Queen of Eternity. Curses.

  143. MikeS : thanks for the search hint. Will do. As others (OScribe) have said , there is a wealth of good stuff in this blog. I am beginning to believe it.
    But, i confess to a certain wanting to turn some of this good info into something also actionable.

    That aside, but maybe by way of example, re this “I think most of us would like that but one of the things I’ve found in life is that the answers and evidence often are impossible to put in clean logical patterns. ”

    I think it is best, when examining cases like this hastings one that we make sure to not let preconcieved notions be the lead. At least not to the exclusion of obvious things.

    In this case it is not necessary to know why, or even how the car blew up. It is sufficient just to know that it did and then make sense of the evidence left behind. From this solid foundation one can then begin to get into the darker parts of the issue as it is warranted.

    So in this case it seems that it does not require much more than a good physics instructor/professor to detail the conditions and forces that would have been in play in order to eject the engine as it was. Cold fact.

    No “conspiracy” needed.

    Now if it is determined that such an outcome is impossible in normal circumstances…including speeds of > 100mph then the other questions start imposing themselves.

    That’s the progression that makes sense to me. Any physicists here? I looked for this level of analysis on the web and did not find anything. Would love it if someone here does find that sort of info re this case that it would get posted.

    Here’s a can of worms, (I shouldn’t do this!) but by way of a different example: Without having to make assertions about who or how the buildings in the WTC happened to come down, I do think it is a compelling question, along the lines I am positing here, to ask how it is that Bldg7, with nothing more than local fires did come down so cleanly, and so fast?
    Ie, I don’t have to care about motive just basic facts.

    Once the attention to the facts start getting muddled and those asking the questions start getting less than straightforward responses and/or distractions, it is fair, it seems to me, to ask why. Which can then lead to the other part of the story of Who and How and perhaps even Why.

    This much, it seems to me should be able to be put into some “logical order”. Logical patterns may be a different level.

    Too much?

  144. AY,

    I’m looking for stats on coffin sales, funerals & cremations. Yearly rates, state by state maybe.

    Most every investor knows the govt lies to us about the employment stats, other stats, so why would we believe the govt wouldn’t lie to us about the number of deaths every year?

    I think the CDC says there are about 2.8 million deaths per year in the US.

    I think they’ve set a target of getting rid of about 8 million of us a year & I’d like to confirm it.

    That gets rid of a bunch of Wallst’s pension liabilities/SSI & we know wallst/DC has already looted those funds.

    There are a few important reasons we might want to know the truth.

    1. I’m not ready to check out yet! :) Screw the govt’s plan.

    2. If your an investor & like Real Estate, public traded cemeteries/crematoriums/tombstones might be worth looking for a well run companies.

    3. Investing maybe in Walgeens(Wag) or pharmaceutical co’s.

  145. MB, MS, others,

    I haven’t read the article below, but it does have a very relevant chart.

    It’s the 1st chart up on the link, it’s of Creation of Debt in the USA to fund GDP.

    As you can see GDP has been really very negative for a long, long time.

    Remember Reagan making a fuss over Carter’s 65 or 85 billion a year deficit?

    The Reagan went off on a drunken binge with the USA’s credit card. What’s the deficit now, 1.5 trillion or something like that?

    Once one reads stuff like John Perkin’s short book, Confessions of an Economic Hitman it’s easy to see the same type scams are currently being played against Europe & us here in the US & why some of those aholes would have to pulled off events like 911/bldg7, Iraq, Hastings, etc….

    What ever one’s opinions are on economics, & that’s fine by me, regardless I’ve found that zerohedge site & their msg bb a good place to find validation of you opinions & financial info.

    Of course watch out for cursing & trolls, etc…

    I don’t post their mainly because of time, etc..

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-22/can-us-economy-keep-exponential-chart

  146. i know im a lesser known on this blog and as yet not privy to the inside circle but anyone who can read this article along with all the other articles concerning Michael Hastings and still believe that his death is a accident is definitely brain washed…. first of all why would Mr Hastings need to be traveling at a high rate of speed at 4:30 a.m.? if he wasnt being chased.. also there just happened to be a freelance photographer out traveling the same road at that time ? And since when does the corporation decide to cremate civilians against the families wishes? also anyone who knows about the car that Mr Hastings was driving knows that said cars have been proven they can be controlled by remote control……its not the first time nor will it be the last unless we the people begin to stand up and I DO NOT MEAN WITH VIOLENCE !!!!! violence will only give the corporation the means to do exactly what they are trying to do and institute martial law.

  147. Well, its about time we used words like Illuminati. Its real & factual & says more than Bankers & Bilderburgers. Why else would Obama secretly condone the murder of children in order to decrease the American gun count in the hands of citizens? Thanks to the NRA & CCHR, he has not got very far, but the NDA Act looms over all of us, along with the Patriot Act & drone strikes. Confront the evil, people. Its the first step to challenging it. As someone said earlier (perhaps it was Alex Jones), you can cringe or deny & end up with a country not worth a hill of beans.

  148. also anyone who knows about the car that Mr Hastings was driving knows that said cars have been proven they can be controlled by remote control
    ==========================================================

    cite your source.

  149. Interesting blog and comments. RIP M Hastings. Tragic. I do not know if his death was an accident or murder. I agree that the greatest tragedy is that so many citizens in and out of the USA suspect people in or associated with our government are likely responsible for the murder of a journalist.
    We have witnessed the increasing corruption of all branches of our government. We have witnessed the intimidation of reporters, federal employees, and the entire citizenry. This death shown in graphic detail fits the pattern of intimidation.

    I agree that it is likely that Hastings death will officially be ruled an accident. I agree that we will be told that the toxicology reports will be positive. Me and many other people will still be suspect of these results and general lack of, and pace of, information.

    Lobbying our politicians is not effective. Pressure the journalist and experts that you have influence with to stand up and get involved. If small cases like Hastings can be proven, tried, and convict perpetrator(s), it will instill fear in people inclined to intimidate, steal, rape, and murder.

    If the rule of law is to be established fairly in the USA, reporting is going to play a key role. Hastings is one of your own. I get that many reporters did not approve of some of his methods. I get that many reporters are intimidated. Protect your colleague and fight back.

    Why have reporters not put out facts about this accident? Where was Hastings going? Who were the last people to see him? Talk to him? Was the car his or a rental? Did he live in LA? Have a house, apartment, garage, roommate? Can it be verified that the email MSgt Biggs released came from Hastings? Why isn’t Biggs making his disclosures through Hastings wife or colleagues instead of non mainstream journalist? Why didn’t Hastings family go to LA and claim his remains? Is it possible for that model of car to erupt into an intense fire upon impact? Did he have any contact with Snowden or his information? And so many more facts to be disclosed. There is interest in this story.

  150. RobinH,

    Good analysis. Please don’t think of yourself as not yet being in any “inner circle”. This blog is a free speech zone. People are judged on their comments, not their longevity. It’s true that some of us have been around for a while and so certain affinities and friendships have arisen. The guest bloggers were chosen by Jonathan based on our written production. We don’t run this place he does. Since you’ve joined us you’ve stated your viewpoint well. Therefore I’m not welcoming you to the “club”, since you’re already in it.

  151. RobinH,
    What Mike Spindell said. Length of time here is much less relevant than quality of your commentary. Yours is doing just fine.

  152. More & more people , (For No Pay), are demanding redress for their grievences & they will be heard & grievences addressed one way or another.

    **
    DOT officials trying to stop 9/11 graffiti on bridges, overpasses

    Hena Daniels & Maggie Lohmiller
    wfsb.com
    July 23, 2013

    HARTFORD, CT (WFSB) – Some graffiti popping up on highways has a lot of people talking, and the state isn’t too happy about how a group of vandals are trying to get their message across.

    Eyewitness News explains what it all means and the lengths one state agency is going to cut down on it.

    When people drive around central Connecticut, it’s hard to miss some of the graffiti popping up on bridges, overpasses and road signs that says “9-11 Truth,” “W-T-C” and “Building 7.” **

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/dot-officials-trying-to-stop-911-graffiti-on-bridges-overpasses.html

  153. @barabajagal You well express some of the essential questions and, to my mind, the essential question in this case: “Where are the reporters? Where is the inquiry?”
    I spent some time over the last few days asking that and other questions, trying to keep close to the facts and basics before appealing to “what everbody knows”.

    Very little was to be found. And what little there was stopped after the first go. There was a woman in San Diego on a local news who said she was on it and was going to get answers. I looked for more, found her twitter, and found nothing further about the case.

    And that is itself, as you suggest, indicative of something. I hope more comes out over time. We shall see.

    When I look at the way the press/journalism has been treated lately, the recent scandals are well known as well as the trend since 9/11. Bush was the perfect foil for the transition : ‘your with us or against us…’. And so it has become. I dont think we fully appreciated the full application of that dictum.
    Now, with the force that is brought to bear on those to resist the capitulation into into being “embedded” (as well as the pleasant perks for those who do…David Gregory comes to mind… but many others also… ) it is becoming true that to be a journalist in these days is an act of some courage and heroism.

    I am thinking of Jane Mayer (I think) of the New Yorker who said as a consequence of the Snowden affair, and the unprecedented criminalization and retaliation of whistle blowers et al, that “sources have completely dried up”. There is a strange fear being inculcated in our country. It has some historical parallels.

    The government seems to be increasingly moving into this mode of self protection and is loosing the grip on the reason for its being. Anyone who would threaten it becomes — in the silly but ubiquitous simplistic phrase used to make sense and contextualize everything these days : The Bad Guy.
    And we know what happens to Bad Guys these days.

    Michael H. might be one example.

    Good post. I hope your questions get answered.

    Michael.

  154. Don’t call a 9/11 truth poster a vandal, as in the apparent Conecticut highway postings. Vandalism is the deliberate destruction of property. Its a bold move & I guess it is illegal to so post without permision, but so were Snowden’s action according to our corrupt government and he is still a major hero in my book. Thanks for the info. Good to hear. By the way, for years I’ve had NO NWO Ca plates; no bullets have ever come my way. It is better to get your message across legally. Be bold people!

  155. I tend to be a bit skeptical that Hastings was assassinated by a misguided car simply because there are so many more direct ways to do the deed.

    But the WAPO has an article that describes hacker work demonstrating the ability to interfere with the safe operation of two models of autos.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/25/heres-how-hackers-could-crash-your-car/

    The article does not demonstrate that Hastings car could be or was hacked.

    But the article is a sort of proof of concept demonstration.

    I suppose the moral is if you think the CIA is after you then drive some old iron with well shielded electronic control module. Stay in public view. Don’t be the single point of failure, the single link to the data that supports your story. Distribute your files.

    It amazes me that we could be talking like this.

    Yet, in consideration of the administrations claim that is has the legal power to assassinate US citizens with out benefit of judicial process or prior warning, I see no alternative to serious consideration of the possibility.

  156. @anonymously previously called attention to a Forbes article describing events that are the the same or very similar to those that I mentioned from a WAPO article.

    It is not my intention to be redundant. The Forbes article seems to cover the material very well. Unless you are an enthusiast there is no reason to read both articles.

  157. Hacker Barnaby Jack dies in San Francisco aged 35

    Jack, who became famous after demonstrating an ATM hack, died on Thursday – but coroners did not give details

    by Amanda Holpuch
    Friday 26 July 2013

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jul/26/hacker-barnaby-jack-san-francisco-dies

    Full article:

    (Jack was due to speak at the Black Hat conference, which starts Saturday in Las Vegas. Photograph: Isaac Brekken/AP)

    Barnaby Jack, a hacker who was due to present his findings on the security vulnerabilities of implanted medical devices, has died.

    The San Francisco medical examiner’s office said Jack, 35, died in the city on Thursday – but did not provide details on the circumstances surrounding his death.

    Jack had exposed a security flaw in insulin pumps that could be made to dispense a fatal dose by a hacker 300ft away, pushing some medical companies to review the security of these devices.

    He was also a popular and respected figure in the information security scene. Within that small scene, reverse engineers are especially close, said Matthieu Suiche, a friend of Jack’s and chief scientist at CloudVolumes Inc in an email. “We pretty much all know each other, or have lots of common friends,” Suiche said. “It’s almost like we all grew up together.”

    He added: “There isn’t much to say except that Barnaby was one of the rare people in InfoSec who was a brilliant researcher but also a good friend to many of us.”

    Suiche met Jack at the Black Hat conference a few years ago and said they had been really good friends since. He said he had drinks with Jack and his girlfriend in San Francisco just over a week ago.

    He called his friend “brilliant”, and said Jack’s latest research on medical devices could help save the lives of many people. “In this world full of people fearfully complying and worrying, very few people are crazy enough to challenge the rules, to approach life in an unconventional paradigm and to speak up to contribute to change this world,” Suiche said.

    Jack was due to speak at the Black Hat conference, which starts Saturday in Las Vegas. His presentation, “Implantable medical devices: hacking humans,” would have explained how these devices could be compromised and would have suggested ways to improve device security.

    Black Hat said the room his discussion was meant to take place will instead be used as a place for his friends and colleagues to gather and remember him on 1 August, when the session was set to take place.

    Black Hat said in a statement:

    We have lost a member of our family. Everyone would agree that the life and work of Barnaby Jack are legendary and irreplaceable. Barnaby had the ability to take complex technology and intricate research and make it tangible and accessible for everyone to learn and grow from. Beyond his work in our industry, Barnaby was an incredibly warm hearted and welcoming individual with a passion for celebrating life. We all have a hilarious and upbeat story about Barnaby. He is truly a shining example of what we love about this community.

    Black Hat will not be replacing Barnaby’s talk on Thursday, Aug. 1. No one could possibly replace him, nor would we want them to. The community needs time to process this loss. The hour will be left vacant as a time to commemorate his life and work, and we welcome our attendees to come and share in what we hope to be a celebration of his life. Barnaby Jack meant so much to so many people, and we hope this forum will offer an opportunity for us all to recognize the legacy that he leaves behind.

    Our deepest sympathies go out to Barnaby Jack’s family and loved ones. Words cannot adequately describe how much he will be missed, but it is certain that Barnaby will NEVER be forgotten.

    At the time of his death, Jack was director of embedded security research at security firm IOActive. On Twitter, the company said: “Lost but never forgotten our beloved pirate, Barnaby Jack has passed. He was a master hacker and dear friend. Here’s to you Barnes!”

    End of article

  158. Thank you Michael B for your support. Bruce Woych’s link to http://www.justice-integrity.org is highly recommended. It brilliantly describes the broken state of democracy in the USA and the importance of reestablishment of free press and an informed citizenry.

  159. 1) “At the time of his death, Jack was director of embedded security research at security firm IOActive.” -from the Guardian article about Barnaby Jack

    2) IOActive:

    https://www.facebook.com/IOActive

    IOActive shared a link.
    22 hours ago

    Great car hacking research IOActive’s director of security intelligence, Chris Valasek, and Twitter’s Charlie Miller http://onforb.es/1bNjPCa

    3) From the Forbes hacking article posted earlier:

    Luckily, all of this is happening at less than 5mph. So the Escape merely plows into a stand of 6-foot-high weeds growing in the abandoned parking lot of a South Bend, Ind. strip mall that Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek have chosen as the testing grounds for the day’s experiments, a few of which are shown in the video below.

    4) So. IOActive’s director of security intelligence is Chris Valasek.

    4) Oh, never mind. It’s Friday night and a good, stiff drink is in order, I believe.

  160. Excerpt from the Reuter’s piece about Barnaby Jack:

    “The San Francisco Medical Examiner’s Office said it was conducting an autopsy, although it could be a month before the cause of death is determined.

    Jack was one of the world’s most prominent “white hat” hackers — those who use their technical skills to find security holes before criminals can exploit them.

    His genius was finding bugs in the tiny computers embedded in equipment, such as medical devices and cash machines. He often received standing ovations at conferences for his creativity and showmanship while his research forced equipment makers to fix bugs in their software.

    Jack had planned to demonstrate his techniques to hack into pacemakers and implanted defibrillators at the Black Hat hackers convention in Las Vegas next Thursday. He told Reuters last week that he could kill a man from 30 feet away by attacking an implanted heart device.

    “He was passionate about finding security bugs before the bad guys,” said long-time security industry executive Stuart McClure, who gave Jack one of his first jobs and also had worked with him at Intel Inc’s McAfee, the computer security company.

    “He was one of those people who was put on this Earth to find vulnerabilities that can be exploited in a malicious way to hurt people,” McClure said.

    Jack became one of the world’s most famous hackers after a 2010 demonstration of “Jackpotting” — getting ATMs to spew out bills. A clip of his presentation has been viewed more than 2.6 million times on YouTube.

    Two years ago, Jack turned his attention to medical devices, while working on a team at McAfee that engineered methods for attacking insulin pumps. Their research prompted medical device maker Medtronic to revamp the way it designs its products.

    The U.S. government also noticed Jack’s work.

    “The work that Barnaby Jack and others have done to highlight some of these vulnerabilities has contributed importantly to progress in the field,” said William Maisel, deputy director for science at the Food and Drug Administration’s Center for Devices and Radiological Health.

    Jack’s passion for hacking sometimes got him into trouble.

    In 2012, he connected his laptop to a gold bullion dispensing machine at a casino in Abu Dhabi, according to fellow hacker Tiffany Strauchs Rad. She said Jack had permission from a hotel manager to hack the machine but security intervened.

    It turned out the hotel did not actually own the gold machine and the American Embassy had to be called in to help resolve the misunderstanding, Rad said.

    “He would hack everything he touched, she said. “

  161. A tape of the Pizzeria Mozza security tape of Hastings crash is available at blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/07/michael_hastings_crash_video.

  162. Thanks, I would not have seen this other wise.

    I usually don’t follow conspiracy theories very closely.

    But, I am intrigued by this event because there is at least the suggestion that some of the local official actions were hasty or in other ways might have obscured rather than revealed facts of the crash site.

    I don’t know if that is true, but if so, it would be troubling even if the accident were no more than an run of the mill fender bender – and of course this was not.

  163. Krikorian the LA journalist who released the Pizzeria Mozza surveillance tape, that backed up his previous statements has written 3 blogs concerning the MH wreck. The comments he added to the “Hastings’ Tox Report” blog were interesting. “An old colleague from the Times was with Mike the night before.” He doesn’t want to communicate over the internet or phone because NSA.”

  164. @anonymously posted Thanks for the link. There is more to this story as is even apparent in this interview. She says what she can, but it is not her next move yet. Things have to work thru the process. It will be interesting to see what happens then.

    @bigfatmike
    I am always intrigued by how we use the notion of conspiracy theory. It is, or has become, a pejorative term, one that is tainted with notions of crazy.
    It occurs to me that it is along the lines of “just because your paranoid doesn’t mean “they” are not following you..”
    Meaning, what if the “authorities” such as they are, are the ones propagating the conspiracy? If it happens that the authorities are not telling the truth about what they know to be true and then they spin another tale is that not a true conspiracy?
    And haven’t we seen that happen repeatedly even as documented by this blog over the last few months?

    I would love to redeem the term, or use another more poignant to describe that event that questions the “authorized” account of anything with a theory that accounts for more (hopefully all) of the facts as known.

    I know you were not making a pejorative comment… But it makes me think about how actual inquiry gets shut down too often by the charge “oh thats just a conspiracy theory”…

    Yeah. I have a theory about your conspiracy…

  165. Sure, I would love for someone to suggest a different term that communicates something like:

    “without taking a position on wrong doing, more investigation is required to assure that all relevant facts have been documented and made available to the public – and this is one of those cases”

    Now where is my thesaurus?

  166. v.good. I think it used to be called an investigation.
    Sometimes investigations seem to be more intended to discover what needs to be hidden so as to sustain a theory designed to be a cover up….

    So maybe the term is simply : honest investigation.

    But even writing it like that exposes the droll humor and cynical wit. Can you image an honest inquiry/investigation into the Snowden/NSA bits. To take a current example. Every time there is an new announcemnt of “we would never do that”, it is exposed that , no, in fact, you are doing just that…

    This is a critical point being raised in this example of hastings. It will be v.interesting to see what the actual official report shows, and whether it will actually account for the observable facts of this case.

    On a related but separate note I came across this ted talk earlier today : It seems relevant to the conversation in terms of how we, the public, deal with information, or non-information as ladled out by the “authorities”. We have to be willing to see what we see…

  167. Michael Beaton said:

    “I think it used to be called an investigation.
    Sometimes investigations seem to be more intended to discover what needs to be hidden so as to sustain a theory designed to be a cover up….

    So maybe the term is simply : honest investigation.”

    Yes, yes, yes!

    Enjoyed the TED talk, Michael B. and forwarded it to some friends and colleagues. Thanks again.

  168. Yes indeed “honest”. Not corrupted by personal gain. Not willfully ignored for fear of reprisals. LAPD may not have known who they were looking at initially. They sure the hell do now. I bet it is not to late to solve if they were motivated to. Loved the Ted video. Normal child response, leave me alone.

  169. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/08/michael-hastings-conspiracy-theories-kim-dvorak

    Dvorak is a “f*cking disgrace,” Matt Farwell, a writer and friend of Hastings who is finishing his Brennan profile for an upcoming issue of Rolling Stone, told WhoWhatWhy. Farwell wants Hastings’ death to be investigated, but “unless it’s good solid shoe leather journalism…it’s not helping anyone,” he said. “It makes the LAPD and the feds go into closed-off mode and makes people not want to say anything.”

    (http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/08/13/exclusive-hastings-unauthorized-cremation-mega-rumor-false-family-says/)

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