It appears that extreme Muslims are not alone in demanding death for those who insult their religion. Some Catholics are threatening the life of Webster Cook who stole a wafer or Eucharist in a baggy to show a friend. He then made a video that now has been being accused by the Catholic Church as a hate crime.
Cook says that he was physically assaulted by a women who grabbed him as he put the wafer in a bag. In the meantime, there is an international outcry against Cook and Susan Fani a spokesperson for the local Catholic diocese insisted that “if anything were to qualify as a hate crime, to us this seems like this might be it.”
The concept of a crime for something given free can be difficult. It was certainly taken under a false impression, but no restrictions are stated in the mass. Indeed, the alleged battery by the women is the closest thing to a crime here, though some defense akin to “fighting words” could be claimed. There is no question that this act is a grave insult for Catholics.
When I was a high school student at Chicago’s Quigley North Preparatory Seminary, I recall one of my classmates who tried to make a theological point that unconsecrated bread was merely bread by sitting outside of the chapel before our daily mass eating them like chips. The priests acknowledged his theological point and then put him into detention for a year for the lack of respect. The worst part was that at Quigley, the worst offenses meant that he had to go a round with Father Cahill in the boxing ring — where he would laying hands upon in the most brutal way until you repented. Even at 70, Cahill could clean the clock of any student.
For the full story, click here.
Needless to say, there are many phenomena that are ignored, such as the ubiquity of hyperbolic discounting. ,
White, rye or whole wheat?
Sometimes great arguments are lost, not because the central argument doesn’t have mass and volume; but rather, the depth of the arguer is not up to the task.
The whole wafer issue is BS. How was Cook being disruptive exactly? Cook has a problem with what’s going on too stating the church is getting money from the colleges student union. But we don’t get what this is really about. No, we get BS about bread!
If I want a communion wafer/eucharist, I go to this website: http://www.communionsource.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=0003&keywords=all “Communion Source.com” They even sell a Gluton-free wafer.
My God what an insult, shut that website down.
Rafflaw – Indeed.
Binx101,
As a Catholic, as I mentioned above, I got a laugh out of the whole episode. We should be able to laugh at anything in any of our faith’s precepts. As long as it is not intended to be a mocking episode, enjoy it and move on.
Well gee, the catholic priests have been stealing alter boys virginity for years.
😐
Can’t they give up one single Saltine?
Jill: My reference wasn’t to death threats – for clarity – my comments were directed at your suggestion that Catholic churches aren’t actively pursuing charitable practices and that you should personally feel qualified to tell others to what extent they should devote time to the ceremonial rites. (I discuss this as friends over a pot of tea – disagreeing, speaking truthfully as best we are able and with all proper respect – just a tad of sarcasm as I am genetically predisposed as a conversational condiment.)
Mespo: Certainly, no death threats were issued by the Church – although we sinners have been known to do stupid things – for that matter the Catholic Church is still reeling from its own blind eye to problems that seem to have incubated from within its own system and archaic practices.
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It is though, conceivable, that humans might take extreme measures, flawed that we are, when someone has deeply offended our faith. As for me, I am well informed but I would be considered a heretic in the very faith that I am partially defending. I am a ‘known’ critic of the Roman Catholic Church. I struggle with personal faith, vacillating from secular humanist to enlightenment with regularity – with no answers – only questions. In fact, if I had been in Church when this occurred, the host would be returned to the altar and I would likely be waiting for my trial date for injuring the young man’s arm.
binx101:
“…that being said, it is my opinion that the youth violated an agreement. When he stepped in front of the Eurcharistic minister or Priest, he wasn’t at the Mall – he was in Church. He agreed, by his action to abide by the contract – that is to say – to receive the Body of Christ without sin – as is further symbolized by the granting of absolution just prior to ‘receiving.’”
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We agree on this one. This was unnecessarily provocative and a breach of respect by a guest in a place of worship. You need not subscribe to all of the tenets of the other person’s faith to respect it and by extension, the other person. He appears to be making some sort of protest over University fees being used to support campus religious groups.The kid is out of line but does not deserve death threats.
Robert Fulgrum had it right: “don’t take things that aren’t yours, [and] say you’re sorry when you hurt somebody.” And he learned that in kindergarten.
binx,
What part of threatening to kill someone because they stole a wafer should I respect?
No religious or cultural tradition should be accorded unthinking respect. You’re assuming that no Catholic would find humor in the situation. This part of Christianity isn’t a monolith. No straw here!
Jill: With all due respect – your anger is overstepping the ballast of your knowledge. You just engaged in a shotgun straw man proposition if ever I heard one.
Or people could be less serious about the formalities of their faith, and worry more about helping the poor, healing the sick, and caring for others, including young people who steal wafers.
The Holy Eucharist is, to practicing Catholics, is the singular element the Mass. While to many of us, this symbolism may appear silly and impractical, there are a few elements here that haven’t been discussed. I find the conversation missing a few elements of respect that we Liberals often discard because they are pesky and slow us down – but they are also the vital elements of cordiality, neighbor and community. Church symbolizes community.
That being said, it is my opinion that the youth violated an agreement. When he stepped in front of the Eurcharistic minister or Priest, he wasn’t at the Mall – he was in Church. He agreed, by his action to abide by the contract – that is to say – to receive the Body of Christ without sin – as is further symbolized by the granting of absolution just prior to ‘receiving.’
It would be hard to imagine practicing Catholics not being completely ‘flipped out’ that Christ had just been ‘flipped off’ in a ceremony celebrating Christ and embodying the whole of Catholicism in a wheaten wafer.
I think that to disrespect that which we don’t understand is more telling about us – than them.
So a stolen wafer is now a “hate crime,” according to the Catholic church and some of its members? Someone should really tell these people to get grounded in reality.
This kind of absolute nonsense is what caused me to reject the insanity of the rcc (small letters intentional) and ALL gods, religions and churches over 25 years ago. And more people have also left the rcc over the last 10 years for similar reasons. Maybe some day, the rcc will figure out that their extreme positions on many issues are driving more people away from their church and all organized religions as well. But that probably won’t be until a priest walks in one Sunday, and realizes ALL the seats are empty.
Said Father Migeul Gonzalez with the Diocese. “Imagine if they kidnapped somebody and you make a plea for that individual to please return that loved one to the family.”
I guess the church won’t be demanding proof of life.
How can those people be so certain this was not the work of the Lord to share Christ’s message to unenlightened masses? The Lord works in mysterious ways and He alone chooses His messengers. Perhaps they need to put that fatwa on themselves for subverting God’s best efforts.
P.S. My mom (not Catholic) and her best friend who was, both subverted the sanctity of the wafers. As young girls they went behind the alter and ate the pringles at will. They ate so many, so frequently that I’m suprized the face of Jesus didn’t appear on their tummies!
Ptof. Turley,
I am still amazed at the”hate crime” label, especially in this case. With all due respect, the whole “Body of Christ” idea was a tough sell to me as a young Catholic. Maybe it was because of the Nuns who were forcing the concept down my throat. I have heard of Father Cahill’s boxing discipline from some other Quigley survivors. I wish some of the Nuns would have given us that option, but then there were a couple of the nuns that could have put Father Cahill through the mill.