During a very different decade, the Muslim community has at least not had to deal with religious extremists who deny evolution and seek to distort scientific courses. Indeed, Muslim countries have a good record on scientific training and research. Now, a creationist movement has formed among extreme Muslim that mirrors our own Evangelical crusade. Islamic extremists can look to George Bush for support after his recent endorsement of the creationist “Intelligent Design” theory being taught in schools.
For example, Muslim creationist Adnan Oktar (who goes by the name of Harun Yahya) has produced an 850 page work entitled “Atlas of Creation” that is being distributed in Islamic countries. On his website,, he simply notes “Darwin’s claims were of course based on no scientific evidence or findings.” The movement is detailed in a Science journal article by Hampshire College’s Salman Hameed.
A shocking 40 percent of Americans reject evolution and only 47 percent of Americans accept say that they believe in it.
‘Well I guess it’s lucky for me then that I never said he believed in an “antropomorphic god”, isn’t it?’
^^^^^^^^^
HAH! Defintely BARTLEBEE material – he never could spell.
I’m on call this evening and the ER is slow, thankfully
– I have a sick goat so my horses, dogs and I are ‘UP’.
Tupelo is not ‘happy goat’.
Poor boy…
Tupelo
Oh and I’ve read most of Einsteins writings, including his war letters, but thanks for rehashing the tired quotes.
mespo727272
1, December 13, 2008 at 2:01 am
“WAYNEBRO:
Einstein was not a believer in an anthropomorphic god.”
Well I guess it’s lucky for me then that I never said he believed in an “antropomorphic god”, isn’t it?
WAYNEBRO:
Einstein was not a believer in an anthropomorphic god. He said: “I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.” He also said: “I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.”
MASKeptic,
Thank-you for your illustrative alliteration!
The comments here were once again in danger of leaving me in awe of this site’s IQ level! While your reference to Protrusion Exiting Noticeably Inferior Sex only makes me smile.
Gyges,
You’re not thinking in terms of percentages. A properly pious pogrom prompts people to pay precious praise. Excruciating evisceration will eventually eliminate every evolutionist enemy. Never naysay the nerve of this nefarious notion’s nominees. It indicates ill that Islam has implicitly incited this insipid institution. Surely, safely should not suddenly stop to sift sectarian subjects superficially.
When you kill everyone who disagrees with you, no one is left to tell you that you’re wrong. I don’t subscribe to that philosophy but there are people who feel their morally justified to use it.
Also, juvenile humor hidden in plain sight.
And that’s how you end up with moronic security moms like Monica Goodling being placed in positions of great power, ordering around and deciding the fates of hundreds of more eminently qualified scholars of law, thanks to idiot factory’s like “Messiah U” who hand out college degrees in exchange for memorizing scriptures and swearing allegiance to the neocon plan for global domination.
Amen to that Mike. I think anyone with the IQ of a dishrag and older than 21 should be able to see that these “preachers” are little more than used car salesmen with a bible instead of a Buick.
They don’t actually teach old languages or historical context at these “bible Universities”. They teach elaborate fairy tales and political dogma, in between begging for peoples money. I think if you said “Masoretic Text” or “Codex Vaticanus” to one of these born again neocons nutjobs they’d think you were calling them a dirty word or something.
They actually get angry at the introduction of knowledge, and their pastors teach them to suspect and deride those who as they put it, get “technical” with the scriptures. They see knowledge as evil, and that creates a wall of stupidty that permits such ridiculous beliefs such as the world is 6000 years old, or Fred Flintstone was based on a historical character.
Instead of a hysterical one.
And the really funny thing, to me anyway, is the Jesus of the synoptic gospels warned his followers of such “wolves in sheeps clothing”, who like the Pharisee’s of his time used the scriptures for their own monetary gain. You’d think at least some of them would have picked up on that by now.
I guess that’s why their preachers keep them bogged down in the Old Testament, instead of the book they’re supposed to be reading.
Waynebro,
How true. No one would ever call me learned in the study of religions, but the truth is so obvious. Re: your comment it has always interested me as a bystander, is how the Protestants arose in opposition to Catholic Christianity, yet for the most part accept the Canon and the text redaction’s made at the Council of Nicaea. There are far too many examples of mistranslations from the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek to cite. Yet as you noticed, Neocon Preachers are oblivious to the centuries long debates being carried on by biblical scholars and theologians.
Mike Spindell
1, December 12, 2008 at 3:13 pm
“One of the ways that our ancient progenitors actually were more intelligent than many of us today, is their sophistication in the use of metaphor. Genesis is almost entirely about metaphor and that was the way it was understood by the people of that time”
That’s exactly right. The ancient Jew’s spoke in a figurative language, full of metaphor, idioms, poetic similitudes, etc, not to mention the translations of the Codices we have were done by Catholics with an axe to grind. Language interpretations were loose at best, and not precise. A common example of this is the misinterpretation of what is commonly referred to as “the 10 Commandments”, and the commandment against killing. Christian bibles clearly say “thou shall not kill”. Problem is, they say that after giving instructions on how to kill, both for slaughtering of sacrifical beasts and orders to kill in battle. Well, the answer is obvious. The word was mistranslated by the King James translators. The original Hebrew word used was “Ratsach”, which means “Murder of Human” not “kill”. The translators missed the mark and now millions and millions of people are reciting an incorrect verse. And that’s just one in thousands of examples of mistranslations and improper use of words. Any first year Seminary student knows that.
I wonder why the neoconservative preachers do not.
LALA,LALA,LALA,LALA…I can’t hear anything you people are saying! It’s jarring!
One of the ways that our ancient progenitors actually were more intelligent than many of us today, is their sophistication in the use of metaphor. Genesis is almost entirely about metaphor and that was the way it was understood by the people of that time. The same was also true of the Hellenic, Egyptian and Hindu pantheons, they were all metaphors representing lessons in living and the philosophy of how the universe works. It is laughable that the fundamentalists of all faiths believe themselves to be the repository of the truth of their religions, when in reality they don’t have a clue as to what their religion is really about.
The funny thing to me is these “creationists” can’t seem to correlate science with a belief in a God. Einstein did. So did Aristarchus and Newton. If there is a god then he gave us brains to figure out the cosmos around us. And as we do we learn things, like the earth is NOT 6000 years old, but 4.5 BILLION years old.
We learn the earth is NOT the center of the universe, but merely a little blue marble in the far corner of an insignificantly small galaxy, in a sea of galaxies and dark matter.
We learn that man’s body did not “poof” appear on the planet but was developed over time.
And knowing that we’re left with the statement “so?”. So what? Why do religionists feel the need to restrict the nature in which their god can do his work? If there is a God then surely he can create us, and the universe(s) how he so chooses, and who is puny man to question it?
The bible is very vague on the subject of creation, and is written in the understanding of those who wrote it. No where do I find an incompatibility with a belief in a deity and an understanding of science.
I wonder why so many people do?
Gyges,
I think it was Paul Sereno, a paleontologist I heard interviewed, who said he was raised as a creationist and that’s what put him on the path to perdition. The interviewee was speaking about the frequency with which the creationism was brought up at church and home. He was taken to see those lying fossils but that’s what made him doubt what he was taught. The fossils don’t lie! He said the fossil record was clear to him, even as a child, and creationism just didn’t make sense no more. Your statement make me think of that.
mespo,
There’s also the off chance that our solar system would survive the collision, but only to get thrown out into deep space. Of course by that point our sun would be dying and god knows what humans will be doing, but it would be pretty neat to see a galaxy collision from the inside.
MASk,
As a reformed Creationist (And a really obnoxious one at that) I have to say that the system that Evangelicals use to indoctrinate people is MUCH more effective in creating believers (versus people who just do lip service) than threats of death. It might have been unique to me, but I found myself thinking in full blown Young Earth Creationist mode long after I figured out I was an Atheist.
Given the significantly more effective evangelical strategy that radical Islam has perfected over the centuries (convert or die) I think that creationism will see an ‘explosion’ of new converts soon.
I know it’s not related but this just hit me about the Saxbe fix and its effect on earnings parity in the cabinet: Can’t Congress just vote again to raise the salary for Secretary of State once Hillary vacates her Senate office? If Hillary has no hand in the new vote it should be constitutional.
George W. Bush is the finest counter-example I know to the notion of “Intelligent Design” on so many levels. Were that not enough, that the Andromeda Galaxy and our own will eventually collide resulting in the utter destruction of both should put an end, once and for all, to this backward notion of ID, but alas it hasn’t since I suspect that same 40% of the population have no idea that we live in the Milky Way Galaxy.
“A shocking 40 percent of Americans reject evolution and only 47 percent of Americans accept say that they believe in it.”
I wouldn’t put too much stock in those numbers. Poll and survey groups almost always skew their results in the direction they’re looking for, either by how they word their questions or who they choose as a sample group.
I’ve been asked questions about evolution v. creation by pollster before, and while I believe in evolution I was still tempted to answer “No” to the specific questions they asked.