The brother of Muntadar al-Zaidi says that the journalist has been beaten in custody suffering a broken hand, broken ribs and internal bleeding, as well as an eye injury. In the meantime, al-Zaidi is now an international superstar and there is now even a couple of games for people who want to throw shoes at Bush, including some that appear to teach the physics of shoe throwing.
The reporters older brother, Dargham, told the BBC that the Iraqis have still not given access of lawyers to his brother. If it makes him feel better, Bush denied the same access to detainees for years before being forced to grant basic rights in this country. Finally, Iraq has achieved the American standard of civil liberties.
He may face two years in jail.
Iraqi television is now demanding his release as Iraqis herald his actions against Bush as protesters call for him to be freed. Our billion-dollar-a-Day occupation appears to be securing over more shoes than allies.
For the full story, click here.
You’re welcome Jill. We agree sometimes, but not on this issue. Thanks for allowing me to clarify myself to you.
Sally,
Thank you for responding so honestly. For me, it is impossible to justify beating up someone because they insulted the president, be he bush or obama. The man was not beaten at the scene, he was beaten up in the custody of law enforcement officers who are sworn to uphold the rule of law, not to beat people up. We obviously will not come to agree on this issue but again, I appreciate the clarification of your position.
Sally,
A bit of perspective:
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/13/citing_iraq_war_renowned_attorney_vincent
Jill
I was insulted by what he did to our president. I would be insulted if someone did that to any other president of our country. It’s an insult to our country. I think the man did deserve getting beat up. And of course the secret service is going to jump him like dogs on a piece of raw meat, they didn’t know what it was that he threw. I expect that kind of reaction for ALL of our country’s presidents.
“Secondly, saying that “people are going to do things”, does this mean we should stand by silently or do we need to oppose our govt. when it does something illegal?”
Our government didn’t beat the guy up, his own people did. If the President of Iraq came to our country and someone threw a shoe at him, the chances of that person getting beat up in our own jail is slim. I would still think that that was a disrepectful thing to do to another country’s president, even though they HATE us. There’s no sense in adding fuel to the fire.
But as I said earlier, if someone threw a shoe shining kit at Obama, then when that person lands themselves in jail, they’re going to have to face some tough questions from other prisioners.
Basically, don’t act in a manner that you know could turn around and bite you in the end, regardless of what point you are trying to prove
On the bright side, at least they didn’t sentence him to a hockey game where one of the players jumps into the stands and proceeds to use said spectator’s own shoe to beat the crap out of him.
Sally,
I’m just claifying with you. Earlier you said, “he deserved the ass-kicking”. Do you still feel that way?
Secondly, saying that “people are going to do things”, does this mean we should stand by silently or do we need to oppose our govt. when it does something illegal?
I see what you are saying Jill and I think what you are saying makes sense.
I do agree with you that he and any other law breaker deserves a fair trial and the such.
But not everyone agrees with that and people are going to do things, regardless if it’s moral or not. It’s just the way the world is.
Sally,
Not one of these actions should be acceptable to you as a citizen of a democratic nation. You said, “The man deserved the ass kicking”. Saying he deserved an ass kicking is not worthy of a person who believes in the rule of law and democracy. I’ll even agree with you that under the lawless govt. we have now and have installed in Iraq, it was likely this man would be beatened and tortured. That doesn’t make it right, it doesn’t make it something he deserved. We have to band together as citizens to oppose any govt., including our own, that is lawless and feels it’s o.k. to torture and abuse prisoners.
This is not connected to the exercise of free speech. A person who has been accused or convicted of a crime should be treated in accord with the rule of law, nothing more and nothing less.
Excuse me, that should say murderers, not murder’s
Jill
Many people are beaten up in prison for things they’ve done. From rapists to murder’s to child molestors, heck even a drug dealer or a habitual DUI offender.
When you go to jail for something that people in the jail find offense with, getting beat up can happen.
Here in Indiana, a man kidnapped, raped, and killed a little 9 yr old girl named Katie. When he was sent to prison, he was attacked and severely beaten. His attackers carved the name of the little girl into his forehead, as a reminder of what he did. Wouldn’t you say that those who attacked the man were letting him know how they felt about him?
“The man deserved the ass kicking”
Sally,
I thought this is what you believed. Here’s why I stronly disagree with you. If you remember, President Regan was shot at. The person who did this was taken into custody, WAS NOT BEATEN, and was GIVEN A LAWYER.
This is a sign of a functional democracy and justice system. We are not a govt. of vigilanties, but of law. It worries me that you accept the beating and torture of another person and feel he “deserved the ass kicking”. This should not be tolerated in a democracy which should hold to the rule of law. Citizens of a democracy should demand a democratic response to the throwing of the shoes. That is: arrest, an atty. and a trial.
We have gone far away from a democracy in this country. As citizens, we must stop supporting lawlessness and demand a lawful society.
You’re so sweet Wanyebro. I love how you feel you have to prove yourself to a complete stranger!
Merry Christmas to you too sweetie!!
No mam. You show a cold, callous disregard for the suffering of others, similar to the mindset of the citizens of Pre War Nazi Germany, who made excuses and tried to play down the suffering they witnessed all around them.
If you were to attend the funeral for a friends son who died in a reckless motorcycle accident, would you console your friends by saying “hey, what did your son expect when he pulled that wheelie”?
Would you comfort a scantily clad woman who had been raped by telling her “hey, wearing clothes like that what did you expect”?
And if your son or daughter got caught throwing rocks through the neighbors windows and the old man living their came out with a baseball bat and beat your kid senseless, breaking his arm, ribs, and smashing his face in, would you tell your kid as you rushed him to the hospital “hey, what did you expect”?
Would you declare to the police “the old man was just expressing his opinion to my son”?
And by the way, your “tells” are clear. See “ass kicking” is a lowbrow word for brutality.
This man’s had his arm broken, his ribs broken, his nose broken and was beaten within an inch of his life. This man was mercilessly beaten, and yet Volksturm like yourself can merely label it a “deserved ass kicking”. I hope someone expresses their “opinions” to you and yours this holiday season too, since you are so fond of it. You indeed are identical in ideology to the German citizen’s who propped up Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
But as you said, you’re no Nazi. You’re just the HausFrau polishing their boots.
Merry Reichstag to you Berlin Betty, and may you have a Happy New Tausend Jahr Reich.
Sally 1, December 17, 2008 at 10:00 am
“Of course they were expressing their opinions and I don’t see a DAMN thing wrong with it. The man deserved the ass kicking”
That’s more like it my little Volksturm, that’s more like it.
Seig Heil to you too.
Of course they were expressing their opinions and I don’t see a DAMN thing wrong with it. The man deserved the ass kicking. He threw a shoe at the President of our country as a means to insult him. That is also disrepectful to us as Americans.
What if a person threw a shoe shining kit at Obama? That would be a huge insult. The person who would do such an act would also be getting themselves an ass kicking in jail as well.
This whole story as nothing to do with Germany when Hilter reigned, so quite comparing apples to oranges
Sally 1, December 17, 2008 at 8:16 am
“So by me saying that if a person takes a stand for something they believe in and that they should understand that there could be consequences for their actions, I’m a nazi?”
Well since you’re so caught up on twisting words, where did I say you were a Nazi? I said you were of the same mindset as the “German People” who shouted “Seig Heil as the staff cars drove slowly by”.
I compared your mindset to that of the citizens of Germany, not the Nazi’s themselves so if you want to cry about word twisting you can start with your own twisting of my words.
As for what you said, you also apparently twist your own words as well, so lets clear that up right now. Here’s what you said.
Sally 1, December 16, 2008 at 11:17 pm
“And those that beat him up were also simply expressing their opinions and views as well”.
So we see you didn’t just say as you try to present now, that merely he should “expect consequences”.
No. That’s your strawman this morning to try and cover up what you said last night.
What YOU said, was that the people who beat him up were “simply expressing their opinions and views”.
What you said effectively excuses the actions of those mercilessly beating this unarmed defenseless prisoner half to death.
They were NOT “simply expressing their opinions and views”.
They were mercilessly beating a defenseless prisoner.
Just like the Nazi’s did in Pre War Nazi Germany. And like the GERMAN CITIZEN’s who either looked the other way or made excuses for their actions, like you did by comparing an act of extreme merciless violence to “expressing ones views”.
THAT’S what you said.
So by me saying that if a person takes a stand for something they believe in and that they should understand that there could be consequences for their actions, I’m a nazi?
Makes perfect sense.
I love how you twist my words.
I never said he deserved it. I said what did he expect?
If a PETA supporter throws paint on a person wearing a fur coat, there’s going to be consequences for that action.
That’s simply all I’m saying
Sally 1, December 16, 2008 at 11:25 pm
“And don’t compare me to a Nazi when you don’t know a darn thing about me.”
I beg to differ. I know a “darn” thing or two about you based on the opinions you chose to profess in here.
And I also know a great deal about Nazi Germany.
And based on your opinion that the “people” as you put it who beat this man half to death, who actually were the Iraqi authorities sympathetic to the US, were “just expressing their opinion”, you clearly show yourself to be of the same mindset of the German citizens of Pre War Nazi Germany.
See those citizens were fine with seeing a Jewish child torn from his mother, and his mothers head caved in with a rifle butt.
That was ok with them. As long as it wasn’t “their kids”.
And you’re fine with this person being beaten, bones broken and shattered, and tossed in a cage for merely making a symbolic protest. You consider HIS beating, merely folks “expressing their opinion”, as you yourself said repeatedly now.
However should someone beat one of your kids you’re tucking in, or one of your family members, well, then it’s a different story.
Just like it was for the citizens of pre War Nazi Germany, who stood by and made excuses as they watched Jewish citizens beaten and arrested before their very eyes.
Sally 1, December 16, 2008 at 11:25 pm
“And the man’s act wasn’t symbolic as much as it was moronic.”
No, what’s moronic is the common lack of understanding about the middle east by so many people commenting on it, like you.
For example, the “sole of the shoe” is a SYMBOLIC insult in Arab culture, something you obviously do not know.
Waynebro
Look buddy, it’s late. I just got my kids to bed and I am going to bed myself. I don’t have time to argue with a lonely middle aged man somewhere in the USA.
Goodnight.
I stand by what I said. Quit twisting my words, it’s just not working for you!