In the last week, the Obama Administration has supported the Bush Administration in a variety of cases to the great disappointment of many civil libertarians, historians, and academics. This includes an effort to kill litigation that has sought millions of missing emails in the Bush Administration.
Public interest organizations have been suing the Executive Office of the President over large amounts of White House e-mail that were mysteriously lost or destroyed by the Bush Administration. Now, the Holder Justice Department is trying to snuff out the case — a move that runs against Obama’s promise of a more open government. The move puts the Obama Administration on a curious side of opposing the preservation of such key material, which has been sought by both public interest groups and academics. For the full story, click here.
This follows the decision of the Obama White House to try to force the Democrats in Congress “to compromise” with people like Karl Rove on the issue of compelled testimony. I recently discussed that effort on this segment of Countdown.
The Obama Administration has also come up in favor of the position of the Bush Administration in seeking to block an avenue for prisoners to get DNA evidence to prove their innocence. In an Alaskan case, the Obama Administration will argue in support of the state’s opposition of allowing prisoners to sue for such access, even when they are willing to pay for the tests. The case involves William Osborne who was convicted of sexual assault and kidnapping in the death of a prostitute in Anchorage in 1993. In post-conviction appeals, Alaska courts said he was not entitled to DNA evidence for testing but the 9th Circuit reversed. For the full story, click here.
This follows the Obama Administration’s recent embrace of Bush Administration views on the “war of terror” and officials backing down from criticism of the rendition programs, here. The Administration has also decided to continue to deny trial to detainees held by the United States.
And to be clear, he did not interview detainees that had left Gitmo. Current detainees were interviewed by his group.
Patty,
Yes, I did earlier address that report but will do so again. That report has been disputed by several human rights groups. There is medical evidence of recent torture to Binyam Mohamed. This torture has been independently corroborated by medical doctors. There is sworn testimony by detainees, which is hinted at in the report, (Patrick Walsh did not interview detainees). There is sworn testimony from attorneys to recent torture. This evidence is out in the UK (see links above) and partially out in the US.
Again, you still haven’t bothered to listen to Patrick Walsh yet,
have you?
I posted that CSPAN link, above, a week ago.
Listen to what he said in his 30 minute press conference.
As I mentioned, he was actually there – for two weeks.
Patty,
I have answered all the questions by presenting evidence. Now present yours. Speaking the truth is not being anti-Obama. I’m objected to torture under cheneybush. The issue and my objection to it has not gone away simply because it is happening under a new administation. It is not morally consistent to object to something under one administration but approve of it under another one. That makes no intellectual or ethical sense. As I said, stop your personal attacks and present your evidence that there is no torture occuring at Gitmo. Personal attacks are not worthy of this blog.
You didn’t answer the question.
If you care about issues like torture and what’s really going on at Guantanamo as much as you profess, why aren’t you better informed?
Do some real research instead of just cutting and pasting what somebody else just published, said, and/or blogged to support your tired anti-Obama agenda.
As of today, the UN is accusing the UK directly of participating in torture.
“Britain may have broken international law on torture, ministers have been warned by the United Nations. Professor Manfred Nowak, the UN’s special rapporteur on torture, has alerted ministers to a range of concerns, including claims that MI5 officers were complicit in the maltreatment of suspects. The Austrian law professor warned that Britain has breached the UN convention (…)
(…)files allegedly confirming MI5 involvement in the torture of British resident Binyam Mohamed. Miliband said releasing the documents could do “real and significan
http://browse.guardian.co.uk/search?search=binyam+mohamed&sitesearch-radio=guardian&N=4294939861&go-guardian=Search
Patty,
You need to stop your constant personal attacks towards me. Torture is a big deal. It is a horrible thing for another person to experience. If you have evidence that there is no torture taking place in Gitmo, present it. Attacking me is not an argument, it is a sign of weakness and unprofessionalism. So stop and present facts, not attacks.
This is a compendium of information on torture. This group is taking testimony from anyone who witnessed or engaged in torture:
”
Since the War on Terror began, “Guantánamo Bay,” “Abu Ghraib,” “black sites,” “ghost detainees,” “extraordinary rendition,” “waterboarding,” and “torture” became incorporated into mainstream American culture.
The US has become a “torturing nation.” The terrible treatment of prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo has not turned out to be isolated incidents. We now know that they are characteristic of a US system of torture, conceived by the Bush Administration, sanctioned by the U.S. Congress, covered up by the US military and largely ignored by the mainstream US media.
This system of torture is putting our country in great peril. Torture is undermining the very foundations of our democracy and corrupting our nation’s moral compass. It is pushing our country further and further to the outer edge of the world community.
This background paper distinguishes the facts from the myths about US torture and suggests what we can do about it.
And as long as our country tortures, we are all complicit in it.”
I don’t agree that we are all complicit in torture but I do think when people deny it is occurring, that that is a type of complicity. Obama does know what is happening and he is able to stop it but is failing to do so. This is the truth. Denying it leaves other people to suffer unspeakable pain. http://www.afsc.org/stoptorture/ht/display/ContentDetails/i/33030
Buddha,
I agree with that as well. There are some people who are sadists who will torture for their own pleasure. I don’t think that is the largest group who will engage in torture. There was an interesting talk from a former MP at Gitmo on NPR this A.M. I guess there is a project for taking the testimony of those who engaged in torture (I’m going to try to link to this info.) His testimony was very moving.
“Guest host Scott Simon speaks with Brandon Neely, a former guard at the Guantanamo Bay prison. Neely recently came forward to speak about some of the abuses he saw while he was a guard at Camp X-ray.”
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=10 (won’t be available until 12:00 p.m. today, EST)
Jill,
“Torturing people brutalizes the torturer.”
This assumes the torturer is not a willing participant. In some cases, many cases, the line might should have read, “Torturing people feeds the psychosis of the torturer.”
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
You didn’t even bother to view the CSPAN link I posted after it aired Live the previous day – did you?
Patrick Walsh was THERE – for two weeks…!
Mike A.,
I really agree. Torturing people brutalizes the torturer. It’s just that I don’t think these people are acting on their own any more than our people at Abu Graib were. There’s a chain of command. We know who the group is that’s doing this. Obama has been directly informed of the torture at least three times: 1. By Gordon Brown soon after taking office, 2. in a redacted letter presented to him by the DOD and 3. by a human rights group. He cannot maintain plausible deniability of this abuse. This is one phone call away from stopping. There are JAG people ready to go there and stop this torture on a dime. Why aren’t they being called in? Torture always comes from the top when it’s not just a one time event. This is ungoing that means it’s a policy of the highest chain of command. I want to know why Obama feels this is acceptable. I want to know why he hasn’t ordered the torture team to desist, get the hell out of Gitmo, get psychological help and put in place the ready team of law abiding military police who will do the right thing.
Also, the UK is really being forced to cough up evidence of their and our participation in torture. For some reason, unlike here, their govt. is being pressed hard. I want that pressure on the US govt. What we are doing is wrong, stupid and cruel. It must stop.
Jill, it appears that there are some sick people who resent the closing and are trying to get in their last licks. We’ve all condemned what has happened to those abused through “enhanced interrogation techniques” and other forms of torture, but we’ve never taken up the topic of the effect that daily participation in these activities has on the abusers. I’m not a psychologist, but I suspect that it is profound.
WTF???
“Attorney: Gitmo Conditions Worsen
Another attorney for Guantanamo Bay prisoners is claiming conditions have worsened sharply since President Obama took office. Ahmed Ghappour says Guantanamo guards are acting even more aggressively before Obama’s year-long deadline to shut the prison down. Ghappour said he’s heard recent accounts of beatings, the dislocation of limbs, spraying of pepper spray into closed cells, applying pepper spray to toilet paper and over-force-feeding hunger-striking prisoners. Other attorneys, including military lawyer Yvonne Bradley, have made similar claims since Obama ordered Guantanamo’s closure.” (from Democracy Now)
What is going on here? More revelations are coming out in Britan about US renditions and torture, aided by our BFFs in the UK. This news is buried here. There is no reason for or excuse for this behavior. This type of thing always comes from the top. I’d say some more calls and e-mails and a protest are in order.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/02/24/torture_commission/
This is an interesting assessment of the Pentagon’s report on conditions at Gitmo. There are also the statements of Binyam Mohamed and his atty. to consider. It seems clear that prisoner abuse is still taking place at Gitmo.
“WASHINGTON – February 24 – The Pentagon issued a report yesterday concluding that the conditions of confinement at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility comply with the humane-treatment requirements of the Geneva Conventions. The report was completed at President Obama’s request by Admiral Patrick M. Walsh, the vice chief of naval operations.
The following can be attributed to Elisa Massimino, CEO and Executive Director of Human Rights First:
“The Pentagon’s report on Guantanamo underscores the need for independent and transparent monitoring of detention conditions. For years, prisoners’ attorneys have detailed inhumane conditions of confinement at Guantanamo, including extreme isolation, lack of access to fresh air and natural light, limited access to attorneys, mental health deterioration, hunger strikes and the force feeding of hunger strikers. Though Human Rights First supports many of the improvements recommended in Admiral Walsh’s report, and encourages their implementation as soon as possible, Admiral Walsh’s findings stand in stark contrast to the real-time accounts of prisoners and their attorneys. We welcome the recommendation that President Obama consider inviting non-governmental organizations to Guantanamo, and we reiterate our request for full access to the detention facility so that we may examine the conditions there and, as improvements are made, credibly, independently and publicly report them to the world. Such access and reporting would set an example of transparency and inspire domestic and international confidence that the United States is re-committed to the humane treatment of prisoners in its care.”
Patty,
True, Guantanamo is improving, but improving one illegally operated detention center based on the historical fact of its situs while maintaining another on foreign soil is just as damaging and hypocritical as running one on American soil in the first place. It is truly still giving meat to the enemy and more equivocation on civil rights. Either we torture or we don’t. Where isn’t the issue. You point to the band-aid, but may be missing how bad the blood loss really is. It’s not that Obama hasn’t done anything that’s the problem. He has taken some concrete measure. The problem is that he’s demonstrated a split and conflicted focus. One cannot build a house if one nails up a board and then moves one of it’s supports to mix metaphors. War crimes trials and ending torture at ANY U.S. run or sponsored facility would be like taking the patient, in this case the reputation of the United States, into emergency surgery. Or we can wait while the patient bleeds out and hope for the best. It’s so near to time to operate or attach a toe tag my concern is the toe tag will show up unannounced so to speak – it’ll be over and no remediation will work.
I’ve been patient. The time for remedial action is now or we all need to be prepared for the fallout.
“Nothing changed with last month’s U.S. presidential order to close Guantanamo, many people here say, because another prison inspires even greater fear: Bagram.”
—-
Before piling on to criticize the Obama WH about Bagram, another area of concern created AND left by the Bush admnistration, is it really wise in the effort ‘to win hearts and minds’ to proceed without first acknowledging what has been recently addressed at Guantanamo – since the executive order signed the day after Obama was sworn?
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/watch.aspx?MediaId=HP-A-15743
Buddha,
Thanks for the links. We are absolutely failing to win hearts and minds, the thing most likely to keep us safer from a terrorism attack, by failing to investigate war crimes and by actively continuing the policies of the Bush administration. Following is a description of Bagram, the fear it inspires, the consequence of Obama deciding to treat these detainees with injustice:
“KABUL – The word “Guantanamo” serves as shorthand among some Afghans for all the reasons they hate foreign troops, but the impending closing of the notorious prison has gotten surprisingly little attention in this country.
Nothing changed with last month’s U.S. presidential order to close Guantanamo, many people here say, because another prison inspires even greater fear: Bagram.
“What will they do about Bagram?”
The answer was delivered late Friday, when a government lawyer told a Washington district court that President Barack Obama will continue the policy of his predecessor, forbidding detainees at Bagram from legally challenging their imprisonment in U.S. courts.
That policy will now be scrutinized in U.S. court, as advocacy groups try to persuade a judge that Bagram detainees should have the same rights as those in Guantanamo, including the right to a hearing before a neutral judge.
It’s an issue that will assume growing urgency in the coming months, as thousands of extra U.S. troops surge into Afghanistan and a $60-million expansion doubles the capacity of the Bagram Theatre Internment Facility, known by its acronym BTIF.
The Bagram prison is operated by the U.S. military and detainees have no right to legal counsel or fair trial. Most of the detainees are Afghans, but some were transported to Bagram from other countries. A military review board re-examines their status every six months.
A United Nations report last week singled out the Bagram facility for criticism. While the Red Cross was allowed to visit detainees, the report said, the Red Cross findings are kept secret and the U.S. military has denied UN requests for similar visits.
“There are reports that some persons have been in detention at Bagram for as long as five years,” the report says. “Some ex-detainees allege being subjected to severe torture, even sexual abuse. Ex-detainees also allege that they were held in cages containing between 15 to 20 men and that two detainees died in questionable circumstances while in custody.”
While acknowledging that his records may be incomplete, the Afghan official suggested the numbers show a high percentage of people swept up in military operations are innocent. This feeds anger among the local population, he said, and gives a propaganda victory to the insurgents.
“You must not give meat to your enemies,” he said.