Since we recently passed the 87th anniversary of passage of the Eighteenth Amendment and the start of the Prohibition period, I could not resist posting this picture that I spotted on the Internet. One wonders why the prohibition was not more successful.
For those who say that marketing is everything, this may be a cautionary photo.
Gyges:
I would agree with that.
Buddha:
thats what I was trying to say about the harmony and symmetry.
Bobesq:
I dont think it is sexist.
Hilarious.
JT,
Why did you delete the photos of Carry A. Nation and Louise Brooks?
I appreciate the historical reference as much as the obvious visual comparison in ‘styles’.
If it makes a difference, I’m not offended at all as a woman
who continues to be exposed to genuine sexist behavior from some certifiable ‘oinkers’ from time to time.
Bron:
“these women … lampoon themselves with the sign.”
There’s the rub.
How, therefore, can it be sexist?
Bron,
Symmetry is a different issue albeit tied to the sense of aesthetics. Yes, Plato and the Greeks had a very refined set of aesthetics and they were the first to recognize the underlying mathematics of symmetry. However, something or someone can still be symmetrical and “alien” to our sense of beauty. Take foot binding for example. It was done to both feet. But you’d be hard pressed to claim beauty if the practice was to bind only one foot to create a small foot and a large foot. The human mind rebels at asymmetry. It’s why the physically malformed often illicit a strong reaction – our brains, visual processing wonder that they are – want order that isn’t there. Humans seek symmetry as a natural consequence of being bilaterally symmetrical themselves, but how symmetry is applied to aesthetics through out a society is determined by not just by math, but local culture and custom. A Greek woman beautiful by our standards would not be so attractive to a Kayan man and vice versa.
Bron,
I would have a slightly different take. Having a standard of beauty is in no way sexist; Assuming that a woman’s worth is based solely on how she meets that standard is. Unless of course you judge everyone’s worth based on how they live up to your standards of physical beauty, then you’re just shallow.
Jill/Buddha:
what about the Greek ideal of beauty? What makes something beautiful? as stated above symmetry and harmony. Asians certainly would understand this. Why do we recoil from the face of Quasimodo or the Phantom of the Opera?
The paintings of Rubenesque women, I think, support my theory, they are not ugly hags and their bodies are certainly not distorted.
Anyway just some thoughts.
Jill:
I would say sexism is denying a woman something for being a woman, a job or promotion or not paying her commensurately with male colleagues or making pornographic references in her presence.
Just saying a woman is ugly is in bad form but not sexism
Bron,
I have to side with Jill on that one. Beauty is indeed both subjective and largely determined by cultural context. If a super model of today had shown up to model for Rubens, he’d have laughed, called her a peasant and told her to go eat something. The changing standard of beauty is how English got the word Rubenesque to describe a woman with a fuller figure that was considered the standard of beauty during the Flemish painter’s day. Also, consider the now abandoned Japanese practice of foot binding, the Maya practice of skull binding and the neck rings worn by the Kayan to this day. All are standards of beauty that are alien to our modern Western sensibilities, but they are standards of beauty nonetheless.
Jill,
Nothing wrong with plus size in my black book…
Bron,
That statement is just full of shit. I’m kidding with you and I’m not, but “that dog don’t hunt”!
FFLEO,
No I didn’t but so what if I had?
mespo,
There was nothing for me to “come around to”. I said the orginal post was sexist. I did not say, “Mr Gorbochev tear down this post”. It’s mighty interesting that calling something what it is upset a lot of people…hmmmmm….Is this the sound of bad conscience?
Um, Jill, I trust that you did not achieve the same *enormous* success from anorexia recovery that the guy in the picture achieved…
Jill:
these women are unattractive and they lampoon themselves with the sign. Most men in their right minds would not touch those lips unless under the influence.
Although as stated above beauty may be in the eye of the beholder. But actually there are specific standards for beauty, such as symmetry and harmmony. if a face is symmetrical and harmmonious then we would call it pretty, think Julia Roberts or Tyra Banks. Those women are beautiful, the women pictured above are not. So I dont think this really is a question of sexism, these women are by any rational standard – not attractive, it has nothing to do with sexism.
And I think therein lies the problem with your racism analogy, beauty is an objective standard and most people know instinctively what beauty is, wheter it be a sunset or a flower or a pretty woman or handsome man. Racism is not objective it is subjective it is based on someones ideas about anothers race and is always based on ignorance.
See Jill I knew you’d come around. Eating disorders are no laughing matter, and I have family experience with them, but this guy embraces it so well, I have to laugh with him. Humor is the universal language.
CCD:
“Well played Quaestor.”
*************
Thank you for the high praise. I do however aspire to be Censor and to sit among the other Curule Magistrates on the Sella Curulis. Believe it or not I have a reproduction in my office reception area, and no one– save now the members of this blog– even knows why I have it.
That man is out and proud! Thanks mespo!
P.S. As an anorexic at age 11, I salute him.
FFLeo:
“…haven’t you now offended both the—um—heavyset folks and the anorexics?”
****************
Well it’s a goal to shoot for, but can’t we just rejoice in his ultimate victory of the nefarious forces of “Skinny”- You know the S-ociety for K-eeping I-ntestines N-nutritionally N-eutered perpetuall-Y.
Terrific mespo, I laughed then snorted, whoops!
Well played Quaestor.
That photo was much funnier. However, haven’t you now offended both the—um—heavyset folks and the anorexics?
Sally:
It is a classic.
I love that photo Mespo. It always cracks me up