On Face the Nation this morning, Sen. John McCain became the latest figure to publicly state that the Bush Administration violated the Geneva Conventions and the U.N. Convention Against Torture. It is not clear how many international and domestic figures will have to publicly acknowledge these crimes before Attorney General Eric Holder will appoint a special prosecutor. I discussed the torture issue last night on this segment of MSNBC Countdown.
During the show, McCain stated “[Torture memo author Jay Bybee] falls into the same category as everybody else, as far as giving very bad advice and misinterpreting fundamentally what the United States is all about, much less things like the Geneva Conventions. Under President Reagan, we signed [the Convention] Against Torture. We were in violation of that.”
Article 7 of the Convention Against Torture states:
Article 7
1. The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, shall in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
2. These authorities shall take their decision in the same manner as in the case of any ordinary offence of a serious nature under the law of that State. In the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 2, the standards of evidence required for prosecution and conviction shall in no way be less stringent than those which apply in the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 1.
There is now Republican and Democratic leaders acknowledging the obvious: we violated these treaties and international law. What they are not being asked is how we reconcile our ongoing violation of these laws by not investigating and prosecuting such crimes. Once again, it is important to note that it is not the lawyers but the leaders who are the principle targets of such investigations: Bush, Cheney, Tenet, Gonzales and others. The lawyers may also be investigated but there is a clear effort to focus on the attorneys to avoid dealing with the obvious responsible parties at the top of the chain of command.
To be fair to W he was an interceptor pilot and during the late 60’s and early 70’s flying jets was much more dangerous than it is today. He had to go to flight school where not everyone lives to go on to fly jets. So while he did not go to Vietnam he did put himslf in harms way for the US.
He also did put in to go to Vietnam and was turned down. If I understand the AWOL issue I was under the impression that his tour in the Guard was just about up and he was allowed to go work on his dad’s congressional campaign by his superior.
Define “his flying machine” . I am of the understanding that he was imbibing that there white powdery controlled substance at that time.
That’s true Mike, but he was still flying in commercial and private jets to conduct family business, so technically, he was flying. And as mespo pointed out, there were no attacks on that shoreline–proving once again, that if GWB has a stategy to avoid attacks, it will work.
AY, I don’t know the answer to your question, but from all that I’ve read, I suspect that he was primarily engaged in political activities as a surrogate for his father. Plus, given his family’s position, I’m sure he had a lot of leeway. I knew a number of people who wanted to get into the National Guard because of the draft. The general consensus then was that it was virtually an impossibility unless you knew someone. The Army, however, didn’t have a waiting list.
Mespo, LMAO.
Now Mike Appleton, define “his flying machine” that is where some peoples reality differs from others.
The other part is he was in the ANG, or wasn’t he? He was paid for that we can be assured. And as a former governmental employee I will most assure you that a lot of people got paid and never showed up. With that said, can you answer the 2nd part?
Was Geo, the Duke of Midland, the prince in waiting aka Geo W. AWOL or not at the same time that he was paid?
Mike:
Say what you will, but not one NVA patrol boat ever attacked Gulf Shores with “Fearless Leader” in the sky overhead!
My best recollection from the Vietnam years was that W. was patrolling the Alabama coast line in his flying machine to protect us from the threat of the North Vietnamese navy. But I could be wrong.
Mojo:
I still don’t get the Rolf from Dusseldorf line!
—
mespo,
I bet ‘…UND that is why they call me Rolf'(ie Ralph) is just a tease on the accent.
It may be simply that rolf sort of sounds like dorf? That one’s beyond me. It reminds me of the song, ‘Horray for Captain Spaulding’ from the Marx Brothers’ ‘Animal Crackers’. There’s a line:
“Hooray for Captain Spaulding, The African explorer.”
(Spaulding-AKA Groucho)
“Did someone call me Shnorrer?”
From Wikipedia:
The word Schnorrer also occurs in German to describe a person, who frequently asks for little things like cigarettes or little sums of money, without offering a return, and has thus come to mean freeloader.
It may just be a bit of silliness in rhyme, but I’d love to hear any explanation associated with it …
Mojo:
I still don’t get the Rolf from Dusseldorf line!
Bob,Esq:
As a counterargument,I give you “Space Balls.”
Mel Brooks; comic genius.
“Don’t be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party”
One of the best lines of any musical.
Personally the show girls costumes are my favorites. Note the strategic pretzels. Who says Mel Brooks can’t coin a slogan too!
Ok you guys made me look it up. BTW JT nice job on Countdown tonight. Forgive the slight earlier by not mentioning it. Now here’s entertainment:
Ahhh, the classic of Americana:
I was born in Dusseldorf, and that is why they call me Rolf.
Don’t be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party.
JT:
Funny but a tad self-indulgent for my tastes, but to be fair I was in college when I last saw it. My favorite Nazi spoof film was Zero Mostel and Mel Brooks in “The Producers.” Who can forget “Springtime for Hitler and Germany?”
JT –
Exactly, it was my initial recommendation to anyone here who has not seen it. Clearly one of Chaplin’s classics alongside City Lights, The Kid, The Gold Rush …
mespo –
Just checked out the brief summary of ‘A King in NY’ on imdb. That film has flown under my radar all these years. Made in ’57 it must be one of his lesser known ‘talkies’. And that it so mirrors his own experience of being ‘suspected’ during the McCarthy days makes it intriguing.
Mojo:
Personally I think the only memorable Chaplin film is his biting satire, “A King in New York” which J. Edgar Hoover sought to ban. Rent it sometime if you want to see what the paleo-cons denied us for our own sakes.
Mespo:
What of The Great Dictator?