The St. Petersburg Times is running a series on the Church of Scientology that has some pretty eye-popping allegations, particularly with regard to Church leader David Miscavige. For those who have long argued that the Church is a cult (most recently in Europe) the exposé will likely reinforce their views.
The newspaper reports bizarre and abusive conduct by Miscavige, including hitting high-ranking officials and forcing them to play a game of musical chairs (where the losers allegedly are banned from the Church).
The Los Angeles Times also has a story alleging rampant corruption in the Church.
The series on Scientology is something of a surprise. Many reporters that I have spoken with over the years are privately reluctant to do Scientology stories because of the Church’s aggressive reputation in responding to press. The Church has a history of suing critics and pursuing members who have joined the movement opposing Scientology. This has led to recent lawsuits ( and here) and complaints. Recently, Scientology also was barred from making edits on Wikipedia because of what it viewed as a pattern of misleading or false changes on sites referencing the Church.
For the first part of the three-part series, click here.
For the second part of the three-part series, click here.
Buddha,
You’re right! I am showing my true colors, as are you.
I consider those that want to deprive others of their personnel choice to do something stupid, perverse, or irrational (as long as the choice does not interfere with the rights of others) to be un-American.
The ability to make stupid, perverse, and irrational choices is at the very heart of FREEDOM. Restricting people from having the ability to make those choices is tyranny.
“Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly: `Tis dearness only that gives everything its value. Heaven knows how to set a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed, if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.” –Thomas Paine
Go ahead; despise my message of freedom. I, unlike you, stand in the company of Jefferson, Madison, and Payne. I stand with people that would/have put their own lives in peril, so that they may protect the freedom of others.
Your idea of stupid, may be my idea of art.
Your idea of perverse, may be my idea of foreplay.
Your idea of irrational, may be my idea of exploration.
Who are you to decide for me, and to suggest that society should limit/restrict my free choices, that interfere with no one, because you consider them to be stupid, perverse, or irrational?
The opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds.
You really don’t understand the difference between tolerating and advocating, endorsing, backing, or supporting; do you?
You want to go get a tattoo; feel free to do so. I think its stupid. While I have just tolerated your choice, I sure didn’t advocate your choice. Did I?
FFLEO,
If it’s any consolation, until the “Un-American” comment, I’d considered him trollish but not a troll. That, however, was pure troll-dom. I’ll withhold final judgment until I see his reaction, but so far I have to side with Mike that this guys isn’t an honest player.
Jim Byrne,
Please continue to contribute your thoughts to this blawg. I have never always agreed with everything you have written, but I have never considered you a “troll”.
For the last week or so this blawg has rolled along nicely without a lot of long, irrelevant copy/pastes and I like that.
Thanks.
Well Jim, perhaps you should read your comments too. Or you can continue to be a propaganda apologist and ignorant by association if not actually ignorant yourself – a matter now open for debate by your own statements in support of stupidity. You’re doing a fine job impeaching your credibility.
As to your last bolded statements, if you want to start throwing around the term “Un-American”, you can end the “discussion” right now and go fornicate yourself and your little avatar, troll. Or pay the price when you get savaged later. Your choice. Since you’re backing stupidity as an acceptable social model, I’m not holding my breath now that you’ve revealed what you really are.
Buddha,
Perhaps you should reread my comments.
I will tolerate many many things that I think are stupid, perverse, and irrational. -That doesn’t mean that I endorse or advocate such.
Mespo said that thoughts become actions; and wants to be the “thought police”. God help us!!
Mespo’s statements would suggest that we should bring back the Alien and Sedition Acts. -After all, we can’t have people thinking or talking to others about such things. Mespo said “sooner or later, thinking always translates into action”.
This whole “Freedom of speech” thing must go too. If we don’t silence them, their thoughts will turn into actions.
I almost can’t believe that I am reading such ignorant, un-American rhetoric from such elitists. You think anyone who does something you don’t like, or lives their life in a manner, or takes action in a way that you think is stupid, perverse, or irrational should be prevented from doing so.
Well damn it, I disagree. I, and many that have come before me, have sacrificed our liberty, our freedom to pursue our own happiness, and some even gave their lives…so that people like you could have the freedom to express your opinions. I also sacrificed so that those stupid, perverse, and irrational people you dislike so much, can have the freedom to be stupid, perverse, and irrational…as long as there choice doesn’t interfere with your rights.
Well Jim, the insinuation was yours. Just like your implication now is that tolerance for stupidity is good because “tolerance” is virtuous trait. Well that supposes that tolerance is the answer to everything, doesn’t it? The answer for ignorance is education, Jim, not tolerance. Just like the answer for murder is incarceration, not tolerance. Your sophistry illustrates you have some education, yet you’d still tolerate/advocate ignorance as long as “it doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others”. By definition, the ignorant will be ignorant of their rights and yours as well which will eventually led to conflict over said rights. You’re exhibiting some fine circular logic.
tolerate; (a)to allow to be or to be done without prohibition, hindrance, or contradiction; (b) to put up with.
advocate; one that supports or promotes the interests of another.
Ok…I guess it’s time for me to stop tolerating something “stupid” and “irrational”.
I’m gonna’ start with something obvious:
To tolerate is not the same as to advocate. I should not tolerate mespo’s insinuation that it does. If mespo thinks that tolerating what someone does is the same as advocating what someone does; that would be stupid and irrational.
Praise the Lord, now pass the basket. The Lords word is never done and remember that by your words, you shall be known. We have the word of the Lord to get rid of this evil and it takes money to do the devils work. Rid yourself of such things, free your soul, make your life like that of Jesus and live like he did. Send me all of your money and if you cannot afford all of your money, send what you can. We have the word to get out and this coats money.
Now let us Pray In Jesus’ name: Jesus, I see someone holding a large sum of money. They are withholding your work until we receive this love offering, you work cannot be filled to its fullest. We ask that you touch them, yes, I see them like you do, one of them, yes, one is wearing a white shirt. And you know Jesus, we cannot do your work with out that money that you have promised that you’d send. Now Get out your checkbooks, write your check, send it now. Oh yes lord through your gifts we are now able to accept Credit Cards and Bank Cards. Call our toll free number and pledge your gift to free your soul now. The Number is, don’t wait. If you cannot call now, our prayer lines are busy, just send it to, yes to our Post Office in the Caymans and we will be able to start with any amount you send. The Lord loves a Cheerful Giver, be Cheerful. and we pray in our brothers name, Amen.
mespo,
Seconded.
Say what you like but be prepared for the slings and arrows should you say something stupid.
lottakatz:
“Until their thinking translates into action that is illegal is this not the essence of free association and speech at the citizen level?”
***********
Sooner or later, thinking always translates into action. It has to since it defines how you see the world. My point is not that you must refrain by force of law from thinking stupidly, but that you enjoy no immunity from public criticism when you do.
GWL,
Thanks for passing the praise of Benny Hinn. I hadn’t heard of him, (which has been my supreme loss). Until now I didn’t realize I could get such really neat stuff such as:
Top 10 (on his site and maybe the universe)
1. Gold Plated Dove & Globe Necklace & Lapel Pin Set
2. Venezuela Crusade Highlights DVD
3. PATH Wellness Manual, plus 2 CDs
4. Heaven CD by Benny Hinn
5. Priestly Blessing Plate
6. Names of God bracelet
7. Dreams and Visions CD
8. The Ark of the Covenant
9. Sword of the Word Letter Opener
10. Velvet Praise, CD
WOW! I think that man in Arizona should have bought number 9 to have a more sucessful suicide.
jim byrne:
““Do you really want to be on the side of tolerating that which is stupid, perverse, or irrational?”
As long as it doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others; YES!
Very emphatically YES.”
************
That’s like advocating free lance dynamiting in Manhattan, but only so long as it doesn’t affect others.
jim byrne 1, June 22, 2009 at 11:15 pm
“Do you really want to be on the side of tolerating that which is stupid, perverse, or irrational?”
As long as it doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others; YES!
—-
Well there’s your problem right there. It’s two fold.
First, stupidity and irrationality almost always screw up something which usually means some non-stupid rational person is the victim although moron on moron crime is not new or unheard of.
Second, there is problem and quite simply it’s you if that is truly how you feel. Are you familiar with the acronym GIGO? Willful stupidity and irrationality are called “ignorance”, Jim, no matter what your reason for embracing it. A decision, ANY decision, is only as good as the information it is based upon and the critical evaluation skill of the maker. The best thinkers in the world can’t make good decisions with bad information. Bad information is a bad place to start unless you want bad results. While I appreciate seamus’ take on the issue of Scientology (although I disagree as most religions were started in earnest only to be later abused and Schillentology was designed from inception as a scam), your proposition is the first step to making the film “Idiocracy” a reality (more so than it already is). Ignorance is never a good choice. It’s a form of self-deception. It’s certainly nothing to be proud of either. If you found this insulting, well, you did to yourself. Although you didn’t use the word itself, you did indeed describe yourself as a proponent of ignorance. Such is the price. I now return you to the regularly scheduled program already in progress, “Ow! My Balls!” brought to you by Brawndo – It’s got electrolytes!
spellcheck: “give AdviCe to people” – not “give advise people”
mespo727272 – “This is the muddle-headed thinking that leads to disastrous and preventable social problems.”
I agree. Mindless, relentless “positivist” thinking about every issue that encourages people to go for anything so long as they feel good about it totally eliminates critical thinking from the process. How many people are sitting on the curbside in bankruptcy because no-one felt it was their place to advise them against that disastrous church donation or even just that flawed small business launch?
saying “go for it” to people is lazy and a cop out. It’s even callous to some degree. It’s not their money that’s being blown to the four winds so why appear negative? Sometimes it’s hard to give advise people don’t want to hear.
Jill writes: don’t think religion just rips off the rich either. Religion goes for the widow’s mite and widow give it. The 700 club asks for people’s cancer money. I trace religiosity to an authoritarian culture which ensnares rich and poor alike. With a combination of belonging, a place to use one’s skills for good or ill and a set of rules that are supposed to help make sense of things, together with a society which values unquestioning obedience to leaders, it’s no wonder it’s all over. Authoritarianism runs very deep in this society and it finds expression both in religion and the secular.
absolutely. if you watch the christian tv networks, my personal favorite is the TBN, they have this woman with pink hair who cries so exquisitely when she talks of jesus and his love for her and her love for him….. anyway, benny hinn who is the ultimate in the blending of hypnosis and faith, he calls the money he extorts “love offerings”
each evangelist has his own lingo for this and typically those who give most, the highest percentage of what they have are the poorest, who go without medication because they believe that the more they give the more they will get from god in return. many of these evangelists preach something called abundance theology.
its pretty sick and twisted, I think.
I’m with Jim Byrne. If we outlaw Scientology what’s next? Spining rims? Wearing your jeans 5 sizes too big and hanging below your ass? Having lot’s and lot’s of kids one can’t afford and treats like garbage?
“Gangsta” behavior has been marketed by major corporations for a couple decades now. No one’s trying to outlaw Sony Corp. or imprison Russell Simmons (Hell that scum – bag blogs on Huffington Post)Lots more human wreckage there than from Scientology. And what time line are we working with here? Certainly the Catholic Church tortured and murdered thousands more than Scientology.
These are mere growing pains for the one true faith.
So give the miserable retards who waste there money and lives on Scientology a break. Your overlord Xenu still has to make his payroll this month. End communication.
mespo727272
1, June 22, 2009 at 9:38 pm
jim byrne:
“People can, and will, believe in whatever they want to believe. They should be able to do so; even if it will hurt them in the eyes of others.”
*********
This is the muddle-headed thinking that leads to disastrous and preventable social problems. People should not be free from criticism for what they believe.
—————-
Until their thinking translates into action that is illegal is this not the essence of free association and speech at the citizen level? The problem as I see it is that organized cults that can gain legitimacy through their declaration as a religion (I’m think all ‘religions’ here) is supported implicitly and explicitly by tax breaks and other government derived benefits. That should stop.
Isn’t that the essence of First Amendment rights in a free society?
“Do you really want to be on the side of tolerating that which is stupid, perverse, or irrational?”
As long as it doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others; YES!
Very emphatically YES. I will tolerate people being stupid, perverse, and irrational.