The St. Petersburg Times is running a series on the Church of Scientology that has some pretty eye-popping allegations, particularly with regard to Church leader David Miscavige. For those who have long argued that the Church is a cult (most recently in Europe) the exposé will likely reinforce their views.
The newspaper reports bizarre and abusive conduct by Miscavige, including hitting high-ranking officials and forcing them to play a game of musical chairs (where the losers allegedly are banned from the Church).
The Los Angeles Times also has a story alleging rampant corruption in the Church.
The series on Scientology is something of a surprise. Many reporters that I have spoken with over the years are privately reluctant to do Scientology stories because of the Church’s aggressive reputation in responding to press. The Church has a history of suing critics and pursuing members who have joined the movement opposing Scientology. This has led to recent lawsuits ( and here) and complaints. Recently, Scientology also was barred from making edits on Wikipedia because of what it viewed as a pattern of misleading or false changes on sites referencing the Church.
For the first part of the three-part series, click here.
For the second part of the three-part series, click here.
Troll,
You’re funny. Quite a hoot. Yeah, it’s you and Jim against the whole tide of those who are un-American. So tell me, Troll, who gave you and Jim the right to negate citizenship, sport? God? The Supreme Court? Your mom? Jim got smacked down because he let his mouth overload his ability to dig himself out of a self-inflicted injury. He’s good with words, quite the sophist, but he’s dancer, not a fighter. In exercising my freedoms, such as the Freedom of Speech, I really don’t need your help, but your concern is appreciated, citizen. And not like it? I love it when a troll chokes on his own filth. Even if I’m the one feeding it to him.
Freedom is the right to act according to ones will without being held up by the power of others. From a philosphical point of view, it can be defined as the capacity to determine your own choices. It can be defined negatively as an absence of subordination, servitude and constraint.
From the Revolution to our own time, freedom has been America’s strongest cultural bond and its most perilous fault line, a birthright for some Americans and a cruel mockery for others.
Am I alone in joining Jim in his efforts to preserve freedom? Efforts to infringe upon the private freedoms of the people, is, by the very core principles upon which this nation was founded, an un-American act. BIL may not like it, but I’m afraid Jim has only made the poor choice of calling a spade a spade while visiting unfriendly territory.
“history has shown us that progressive governments limit civil liberties. Call it what you will.” A completely unfounded generalization seeking to further smear progressives is what I’ll call it. Do you want anymore proof he’s a troll, Gyges, or do you want to hear him blather endlessly about how progressives and socialists are the cause of the world’s ills? That’s all he’s doing. He wants progressives to be demonized and the bad guys so bad it’s impaired his reasoning or he’s just cashing a check to be an obtuse blockhead (the technical term is FOXNews viewer). He’s also a dishonest actor. If he was just stupid, I’d be more patient, but the pattern is clear to me now and his agenda isn’t learning. I hope you like dancing the waltz, because he’s going to be running you in circular patterned box steps.
IS,
I’m saying that there’s how organizations represent themselves, and how the act.
If we’re going to have this discussion, we’re going to need to define conservative and progressive. I suggest we both go to Wikipedia (or other encyclopedia or dictionary) and use their definitions.
IS,
Most humble apologies then. I did indeed think you were answering hid as Troll. But seriously. Read several history books. And learn how to ask a question if you aren’t certain you can back up something as fact before making an assertion upon said fact. There are no bad questions but there are bad assertions. It’ll save a lot of misunderstandings.
Gyges:
what has that got to do with anything?
history has shown us that progressive governments limit civil liberties. Call it what you will.
BIL:
TROLL WAS NOT MY POST. I actually did not think his link was very good. But I do agree with what he was saying as far as the NAZI’s being socialists.
I am sorry but Hitler was a socialist. And Albert Speer was a delusional fool, I have not read his book but I have read a fairly good book about him by a woman I believe but it has been so long ago I neither remember her name nor the name of the book.
If you want we can go round and round on this too. But you are incorrect.
IS,
Is a country that elects their Kings a Monarchy or democracy? Should we assume that members of the KKK are all Scottish? Does a rose by any other name still smell as sweet?
Gyges,
If you wish to continue to educate IS, please feel free, but the constant recycle on the socialism tag is all I need to see. I’m done with him.
However, I won’t back down on the un-American issue. Jim got what he deserved and he’ll get it again if he wants to play that way. His word choice sank him. I just helped. Up to that point, I’ve been circumspect with him for me and you know it. I even encouraged him to not to quit when Mike had him cornered over word choice before. But he crossed a line with that un-American bit. He’d get the finger IRL too. I am what I am, imperfections and all, but “doormat” isn’t on the product specs.
BIL:
why did they call themselves National Socialists? And why did their government look like a socialist one?
I am calling progressives socialists and NAZI’s are socialists too. I am not saying that current progressives are going to send anyone to the camps or the ovens I am merely stating that it seems in the last hundred years a progressive government is not a very good one, i.e. Germany, Russia, China, Argentina, etc..
And we currently have a self styled progressive for president and that seems to be working out very well indeed. Socialized med., government ownership of the means of production. And who knows what else he will come up with.
for my money progressive = tyranny every time.
Jill,
I had a great discussion with IS the other day. I’m convinced he’s sincere, just used to a different style of conversation. I’m more then willing to give him time. It’s a bit of a shock to realize that every other tribe name means “The people” too.
I’d replace “love” with “belonging to a group,” but either one works. I guess it’s my nature bias attempting to refine your nurture.
GWL,
I will look for this god-man! Your description was hilarious!!
Gyges,
I won’t engage with IS because he has no intention of making an honest argument. In a real argument we would define the terms as you suggest. To me, the striking question is what allows people to follow an authoritarian way or person. I think we are all vunerable to this. Some of the people who participated in the Milgram experiment said it gave them a lot of self-awareness and it made them very sensitive to authoritarianism whenever it came up in their lives. They said the were sucessfully able to resist and/or stand up for their rights and the rights of others after the experiement. These were the people who had taken it to “kill”.
Paradoxically, I believe that people often participate in evil things out of the desire for love. Wanting to be loved and accepted is one of our deepest needs and desires. If it takes being cruel and vicious to feel loved, then we will be cruel and vicious. The true psychos know this about people and they use it.
Buddha,
I think it’s pretty clear that IS isn’t a troll. He seems fairly intelligent, just (as we all are) blinded by his beliefs. I’d even point out that both he and Jim are far more civil than you a large chunk of the time.
To be honest your constant baiting wears thin, but we’ve had this discussion before, so let’s not rehash that discussion.
Jim and IS,
MOST of us here treat people with differing views respectfully, assuming that we’re afforded the same courtesy. Even Buddha will calm down eventually. I honestly like having both of you around, even though we disagree on some fundamentals.
I hope you’ll look at it from the native’s point of view: We often get people who come by just to show them damn liberals the good news. They don’t engage in conversation, just preach. Both of you have occasionally fallen into that pattern (and have been preached at in return); sometimes it’s hard to tell the conversationalists from the missionaries.
Well IS, at least you’ve finally come clean. You’re just the stupidest troll I’ve ever seen. That’s just simply staggering propaganda, a gross mis-characterization and historically WRONG.
Jim,
You’d be surprised how calling someone un-American gets you the finger when you’re ostensibly here to debate? Please. You seem remarkably unconcerned about that. You can differ all you like, but you were talking smack, you elitist Neocon poser. “Liberal” doesn’t mean I’m your doormat. You don’t like it? Too bad. Try calling some of your liberal friends (if they exist) un-American and see how long it takes for you to get, at a minimum, the finger. If you don’t want your delicate sensibilities offended, you should probably keep that garbage to yourself, citizen.
Adolf Hitler became powerful because ordinary people looked for an easy way out of economic and social problems. Before Hitler became the sole head of the German state, the people of Germany were looking for a way to restore economic and social harmony. Hitler promised both, but in turn they would have to give up some individual freedoms. Democracy died and national socialism was born. Big government provided all the necessities that the people wanted, but in turn no one was allowed to voice opposition to the only government party. Socialized medicine, socialized workers, and cradle to grave care was provided by the big government, but at an enormous cost to individual dignity and freedom. As the supreme architect of this socialist state Hitler became the most powerful figure of the twentieth century.
Yep. Sounds pretty Conservative to me.
http://library.thinkquest.org/12663/summary/naziframe.html
Sergeant Howie: What religion can they possibly be learning jumping over bonfires?
Lord Summerisle: Parthenogenesis.
Sergeant Howie: What?
Lord Summerisle: Literally, as Miss Rose would doubtless say in her assiduous way, reproduction without sexual union.
Sergeant Howie: Oh, what is all this? I mean, you’ve got fake biology, fake religion… Sir, have these children never heard of Jesus?
Lord Summerisle: Himself the son of a virgin, impregnated, I believe, by a ghost…
rofl
IS,
You really are hopeless.
Look, the book GWLSMom suggested is a good one. I suggest it along with “Inside the Third Reich” by Albert Speer. Even go read Wiki for God’s sake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazis
I’m treating you like the highly uneducated person you seem to be at this moment. However, if this is a trollish attempt to smear progressives by equating socialism with Nazism, the ignorance and stupidity of your statement is so dazzlingly counterproductive to any goal associated with with properly deployed propaganda to that end, that if you were a troll, you wouldn’t be a very competent troll.
IS : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
–
Suffice it to say: It doesn’t matter which direction the bullet that kills you comes from. One point three million innocent Iraqis can’t be wrong about that.
http://www.light-to-dark.com/the_petraeus_insult.html
hidflect:
Troll? why because I have some differing views.
So far none have you have convinced me of anything other than that you have no clue as to varying forms of political philosophy and that you dont tolerate dissent very well.
It’s quite simple to call someone a troll. But I dont think I have said anything approaching Trolletry.
I base this on how I was treated on another thread and how I see Jim Byrne being treated here. He has said nothing in my mind to rate the comments given back to him.