Acting true to it authoritarian form, the Iranian government is seeking to erase evidence of Neda Solton, the 26-year-old woman who died during protests when government forces used live rounds to disperse crowds.
Officials have ordered the family to take down mourning posters and have barred any gatherings in her name. They have even blocked the family from holding a public burial or memorial service.
Nevertheless, posters have started to appear around the city and the effort to block internet access has not been entirely successful. In the meantime, most of the media has been blocked from even mentioning her name. One of the few references on television claimed to have debunked the story and suggested that the scene was staged, here.
She was shot when she was walking to a demonstration in Freedom Square in central Tehran. As the video below depicts, she died on the street. Her last words were: “I’m burning! I’m burning!”
Tributes have been posted on Youtube to Neda:
For the full story, click here.
Sil,
You realized you’re a laughing stock yet? You should really take AY’s advice.
buddha,
I’m not the bigot. As I’ve said, that is the little progressive trick. You demonize your opponents and attach labels to them in order to give yourselves the appearance of a higher moral authority.
You progressives just do not like to confront the truth and when the bold truth is pointed out to you (i.e. the inhumanit, primitiveness, barbarity, revisionist nonsense of Ara/Muslim culture, etc.) you only rise up in faux-indignation to accuse your opponents and then you start playing the finger-pointing ‘what-about-them game. (Don’t you know oh great student of Siddarthura that two wrongs don’t make a right) And that kind of tit-for-tat is an intellectual shortcut used by psuedo intellectuals to dodge the issue and get on their soapbox to rage about the ills of everyone else except those specific to the issue.
But you are like all psuedo-intellectual progressives who can never stay on point of an argument. You try to take the argument off course to bring it onto a topic you can rail about to make yourself seem intelligent and to get pats on the back from all the other hypocrites in your crowd.
I stand by my “generalizations” of Arab/Muslims and their culture because anything different than those generalizations is certainly in the minority.
Unlike you who sits in his ivy-tower, cribbing all your knowledge from the Huffington post or salon.com, I myself have had first hand experience with radical Muslim’s (read my blog about ‘Fake Muslims’) AND so-called moderate Muslims AND suppossed impartial academic’s. And each and everyone of them is stubborn in their defense of anything Islam and get extremely hostile to any critical questioning of Islam. I personally have never even mentioned Christianity let alone defended it despite your repeated progressive trick to lure me into an argument on that topic.
You like all your progressive types refuse to address the hypocricies and inconsistencies and contradictions and revisions and abominations that are inherrant in Islam. You do not have the knowledge on the subject so you resort to your little progressive rhetorical trick of trying to hurl unfounded accusations to drag the subject into a zone you are comfortable ranting about.
You are the hypocrite. You are the one that turns every little circumstance into an anti-American rant. If you do not like what is done on a foriegn policy basis to protect the soveriegnty of America and the Western lifestyle that youy are so comfortable living then I implore you and you limosine crowd to downsize your lifestyles.
Unlike you progressive types I have fully admitted that I accept the corruption and enrichment of the Bush and Saud dynasty. aS A FORMER 11Bravo, I proudly served the interests of the corporations and the political elite in order to protect the soveriegnty and lifestyles of all Americans. Do I think it is fair? No. Could I changs it if I had the personal power to do so? Yes. But untill we get off oil (With something COST effective) then I am willing to accept the realities and live with the cicumstances.
I will call out these primitive, barbarians in the ME for what they are. And point out that the only reason why we give them credibility is b/c they stand atop most of the world’s reserves. My beef is with those like Obama and all in his progressive crowd who want to legitimize that barbaric culture beyond the pragmatic minimal reason we have to legitimize them.
Keep going through life with blinders on and talking out of both sides of your mouth so you can argue the issues from both sides of the spectrum so you can claim the faux moral superiority that all you truly compassionless progressives wrap yourselves in to make it seem that you are “right” and “good”
Look in the mirror and finally come to terms with the hypocrite that you are.
Sil,
You can try to paint me as unpatriotic some other way, but transparent is as transparent does, Mr. “You Hate America”. Well, that’ll be just about as effective as your other buddies tactic of trying to call me un-American directly. It’s untrue and it’ll get you run through the shredder – assuming I think YOU, unlike your buddy, have the ability to be mistaken as a reasonable actor. You trolls don’t learn very well, do you?
You still haven’t explained why you’re a bigot.
Buddha,
Go ask all the minorities like women or gays to name a few if they don’t have their human rights violated.
Ya, I know the Muslim world is bastion of love and acceptance. All you progessives that whine and moan about every American denial and violation of rights and freedoms wouldn’t last a day in the Muslim world. You’d get rounded up and locked up and the key would be thrown away and no one would hear a word about your outrage and dissent. You’d be longing for your days in America to rant and rave against your own country on your blogs and peacefully protest without fear of facing a Tianeman square or Iran incident.
It’s the little progressive trick to label everything they disagree with as racsist and bigoted. Ya, that Sadaam was a great humanist, Oh ya, great protector of the enviroment when he destroyed one of the worlds greatest ECO-systems to flush out the Shia’s.
You are the one who blames America for everything not me. You are the one who forgives evbery foriegn transgression as retaliation for American antagonism.
Ask the people who live in foriegn countries if they have the same freedoms and protection of freedoms as they do in America.
I don’t care who owns the oil or who gets rich off it. I am only concerned that untill we develop a COST effective alternative or something other than the combustion engine to fuel the world and transport ourselves and the goods neccessary for our survival and soveriegnty that all nations are able to get there hands on the oil needed to do the business of the world.
And do NOT think for a second those dealing with the Arab/Muslim world suck it up and bite their toungues in dealing with these primatives.
It’s the progressives like you who want to criticize the West and legitimize the Arab/Muslim world b/c it’s easy for you to spew your imperializing, colonizing, blame America for all the ills and evils in the world.
You sit in your progressive ivy-tower, tooling around in your limosines b passing moral judgement and bashing America better to promote your devious adgenda. But I guarantee you’d be howling if your nice comfortable lifestyle was disrupted.
See, I’m not a hypocrite like you and your progressive ilk. I LOVE my WESTERN lifestyle. And I expect my elected leaders to PROTECT the soveriegnty of the lifestyle of ALL AMERICANS. If that means the powers that be get rich or America organizes coup’s and colonizes the underdeveloped countries. Hey, it’s OK by me. I feel fortunate to be born here and I’m not consumed by guilt because of it and I won’t apologize.
If you’re so mad at America and don’t like it’s ways then STOP partaking in the benefits of being an American.
Mike A,
once again you use my post to rant against all the ills of America.
I certainly know the U.S. history in manipulating world affairs to control natural resources.
I am well awarte of the unholy alliance b/t the Saud dynasty and the Bush family who has acvted as the Saud’s henchmen ever since oil was discovered under their primitive beaudoin feet. I am well ware that almost every military action in the ME is done to p[rotect the business interests of the Bush family’s business partners the Saud’s.
I wish the U.S. could find a COST effective source of energy so the world will no longer be held hostage by these primitive, inhumane, medieval, ignorant, fanatical desert dwellers.
I also realize that untill we do develop a COST EFFECTIVE alternative energy, the soverignty of the U.S. and much of the Western world depends on the ability to maintain a flow of oil at a reasonable price.
Are the Bush’s/Cheney’s and all the oil barons in the U.S. and the ME getting rich off our dependance on oil? YES. But untill we develop a COST EFFECTIVE way to energize our societies then I am willing to accept the “powers that be” getting rich and military men dying so that the world can run, so that the world can drive around no matter the put-put car they drive, so goods can be transported, so planes can fly, etc, etc,
Right now the combustion engine is what gets us going, what makes us move, our pesence is needed in the ME.
You just wantn it all your way then blame America for everything
Sicilian, I do not attempt to cater to or legitimize anything in the Arab world, or in the European world, or in the Australian world, or in the African world, etc. I don’t need to and nobody has ever asked me to. I do not regard the United States as the sole judge of what is right and good and noble in the rest of the world. I do not believe in a foreign policy which promotes military, cultural or religious imperialism. I do not believe that this country has a moral duty to take aim at every dictator and tyrant in the world. I believe that our continued dependence on oil reserves controlled by regimes content to live in the 11th century is a failure of imagination, resolve and political leadership in this country, aided in large part by a long and unholy alliance between powerful politicians and powerful corporations. If you are as familiar with the history of this country as you appear to be with that of Mesopotamia, you would understand that we have frequently protected the interests of private economic forces in the natural resources of other countries through the orchestration of coups or by direct intervention. The annals of our relations with Central and South America bear witness to that. You may regard my opposition to that sort of adventurism as part of a “blame America” syndrome if you wish, but by doing so you are only ratifying historical wrongs.
We can look for “travesties of human rights” elsewhere than in oil producing countries. However, you appear bent upon focusing your rage against those admittedly tyrannical regimes. I honestly can’t tell where you’re coming from or what you propose the U.S. should be doing about human rights abuses. Your rants against “progressives” and the “Arab/Muslim” world (BTW, Iranians are Persians) and the so-called “blame America” agenda, whatever in the world that means, is unenlightening, unconstructive and arrogant. If you truly wish for a dialogue, define the wrongs as you perceive them and propose your solutions.
bok bok bok bok BOK! ba Kaw! bok bok bok
Blame America has nothing to do with it and is just more Neocon code wording and demonizing of what you have a demonstrated inability to understand. Your twisted ideological prism that says you have the sole right to determine the value of the entire Arab/Muslim world based upon the actions of known smaller groups of bad actors. “Their societies are a travesty to the rights of all humans.” Your words. Racist and bigoted much, Sil? Not all Muslims are lunatics as much as you’d like to paint them that way, Sil. Not all Muslim states are our enemies either. Would you be so angry about oil if Whitey McChristian owned it? I get the impression, eh, not so much. So before you start telling anyone, yet alone someone you’ve labeled a progressive, to get off their “Blame America agenda” – for which you have no proof, you might want to consider that most people of conscience do indeed pay attention to the ravings of racist bigots – for which you have provided ample evidence that you are. They pay attention to them so they can ridicule them. Again – “Their societies are a travesty to the rights of all humans.” Your words. A racist and bigoted generalization.
Mike A,
Unlike you I am NOT a slave to a certain ideolouge. I am NOT a hypocrite. I call out any injustice unlike you who manipulates everything you say to fit your adgenda.
I have NEVER advocated a crusade> NEVER once. But that is the M.O. of your types who try to demonize those who disagree with you by sticking labels on them and fabricating things they’ve said.
Don’t give me that enlist garbage. I’m much too old to RE_ENLIST!!!!!! I did my time.
My problem is catering and trying to legitimize everything about the Arab/Muslim world. Their societies are a travesty to the rights of all humans . And if they didn’t sit on top of the worlds largets oil reserves we wouldn’t have to cater to them. Because the world needs their energy to run it’s economies and guarantee are own soveriegnty all of mankind is held hostage to their whims and has to pretend and look the other way at the atrocities going on in those societies.
I wish we’d get off oil. Come up with something, anything so Americans could stop fighting wars and dying to make sure the region is stable and the oil keeps flowing.
Get off your high progressive horse and stop looking through eveything through the prism of your blame America adgenda!
Sicilian, your comments dart about the landscape like a frantic squirrel, rendering any sort of coherent discussion virtually impossible. I frankly have little time for those who purport to understand the innermost feelings of others. I also have little time for those who believe that the answer to the problems in the Middle East is another Crusade against Islam. That brilliant strategy, despite its biblical appeal to some of us, has succeeded only in transforming one corrupt secular state into another corrupt Islamic republic. If you are so outraged by what you unilaterally perceive to be “feigned compassion,” quit posting on your blog, enlist, put on a uniform and ship out to Afghanistan where you can put your world views into concrete practice. No? I didn’t think so.
S1,
Be mindful of who you are calling liberal or progressive. I am a conservative, 30-year registered Republican; however, I do not follow any fringe stripe of any ideology that runs counter to fact, reason, logic, honor, critical thinking, or the scientific method.
How about those great freedom fighting terrorists upon hearing about the coming air strikes who herded a bunch of women and children into an area the slaughtered them and then pointed blame at the air strikes as the reason.
But no none of the progressives that get ALL their info off the Huffington Post want to deal with that reality.
How about those new “rules of engagement” that were issued by the new commander in Afghanistan? That should make the progressive crowd real happy.
It is the hypocritical progressive crowd who do NOT want to stay on topic about the death of Neda and the INITIAL lack of sympathy of our great leader.
It is the progressives who expose their fiegned compassion. Then use the death of Neda as a launching pad for their anti-American/blame America for everything/hate America rants.
The progressives are the ones soiling the memory of this poor woman.
Keep believing the terrorist propaganda that the U.S. military is indiscriminately bombing innocent women and children. Like I said, it is a fact that the terrorists are the ones “orchestrating” these massacres. Then the progressives jump on the band-wagon to spew their blame America rhetotric.
FFLEO,
Hear hear!
I think we are abjectly hypocritical regarding covering up our own torture of people and the killings of innocent civilians in Afghanistan and then condemning the Iranian government. As Commander-in-Chief, President Obama is ultimately responsible for those deaths and for not dealing with the torture issue. He bemoans the violence in Iran and the death on one martyred woman (as well he should) but in one misguided airstrikes *his* troops kill dozens of innocent men, women, and children in a single strike. One recent B-1 airstrike that killed civilians had violated standing policy.
We have lost our moral authority with the rest of the world.
In the following article, Greenwald and others are thinking along the same lines as I am.
_________________________________
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/24/photos/index.html
{Quote:
Wednesday June 24, 2009 05:25 EDT
The “Neda video,” torture, and the truth-revealing power of images
For the last question at his press conference yesterday, Obama was asked by CNN’s Suzanne Malveaux about his reaction to that video and to reports that Iranians are refraining from protesting due to fear of such violence. As Obama was answering — attesting to how “heartbreaking” he found the video; how “anybody who sees it knows that there’s something fundamentally unjust” about the violence; and paying homage to “certain international norms of freedom of speech, freedom of expression” — Helen Thomas, who hadn’t been called on, interrupted to ask Obama to reconcile those statements about the Iranian images with his efforts at home to suppress America’s own torture photos (“Then why won’t you allow the photos –“).
End Quote}
____________________________________
I’ve been remiss in not thanking all the regulars who once again have been doing all the heavy lifting in battling trolls on this and all the other threads. Thank-you Mespo, Buddha, Mike A, Mike S., Vince, Jill, FFLEO, Rafflaw, Gyges, Lotta, GWLSmom, and please forgive me it is getting late so to all unmentioned thank-you too!
The link did not post but if you want to find the video tribute try /watch?v=kEoEUdOKhsA after youtube.com I found it very moving; and bearing witness is the least we can do.
While searching Youtube for the song “Strange Boat” by The Waterboys I found this tribute by Mike Scott to the Iranian protesters and wanted to share it with you all.
“Let the Earth Bear Witness”
words by W.B. Yeats
They shall be remembered forever
They shall be alive forever
They shall be speaking forever
(The people shall hear them forever)
Let the sea bear witness
Let the wind bear witness
Let the earth bear witness
Let the stars bear witness
sicilian, I will attempt to respond to your outrage as best I can, although I know in advance it will be less than adequate. When I wrote my comments, they were not with you in mind (whoever you are). The initial reaction to the president’s calm came from the typical Republican remnants who dug trenches the day after the election and have remained there, emerging periodically to vote no or to condemn the president for not performing miracles. Their argument was over nuance, the lack of emotional content in the president’s response to the rather apparent electoral shenanigans in Iran. Of course, had he bombarded the airwaves with threats and bombastic eloquence, the criticism would have been that he was a hypocrite, adopting the axis of evil language of George Bush that he had so heavily criticized during the campaign.
Senators and Representatives can say whatever they wish. That most of it is crap is acceptable because it does not represent the voice of American policy in foreign affairs. However, I expect more than cheap emotionalism from the president. I expect him to act on the basis of factual information. I expect him to act in accordance with the national interests of this country. I expect him to avoid embroiling us in matters over which we have no control. In short, I expect him to be an adult.
Iran is a theocracy. As long as it is run by a single religious leader, the outcomes of its presidential elections are essentially immaterial other than to Iranians. When citizens of that country decide to change it, they will change it. The impact of the death of Neda Solton will not be determined by the words of an American president, but by the inspiration it provides for internal change in Iran.
However, to suggest that I or anyone else, including the president, do not have compassion for Ms. Solton is to assume a right which you do not have. I no more know what is in your heart than you know what is in mine. And to urge that the failure to rush the emotional ramparts is insulting to her memory is presumptuous nonsense.
I am one of a few people on this site who use their real identities because I have nothing to fear from that disclosure. I am 62 and well recall the civil rights and Vietnam years. I have not forgotten the children who died in the bombing of a church in Alabama. I have not forgotten the three civil rights workers kidnapped, tortured and murdered in Mississippi. I have not forgotten the four students killed at Kent State by our own national guard troops. Those deaths produced more positive change in this country than any amount of hand wringing or weeping has ever accomplished. If the death of Neda Solton has a similar effect in Iran, she will be remembered for many years as a heroine in her country. That is for the people of Iran to decide.
My but you’re a foamy one.
I’m NOT a neocon nor a fundamentalist.
That’s the little trick you progressives try to play. You classify everyone as a group. Those on your side and on the opposing side. That’s how you progressives control voting blocks and villanize anyone and everyone who disagrees with you.
Mike A tried to lump all those who disagree with the pres. as a neocon or a fundamentalist. That made it much easier for him to defend Obama’s indefensible position.
If Obama had any respect for Neda or any of you progressives had any real respect instead of trying to fiegn compassion and concern you would put aside your partisian blinders and be outraged over the lack of compassion, concer and interest of our great pres., the suppossed leader of the free world
I have NEVER tried to blot neda out, unlike our insensitive pres. who has NOT even mentioned her by NAME. And if he did I missed it. And if he did it was once again much too late.
I have NEVER stopped referring to this poor, young woman and what she represents.
It has been you and your progressive crowd who has insulted her memory by even suggesting the honesty of the images we’ve seen. That is something I would NEVER even consider.
I have NEVER minimized her. And if you read my blogs you would know how concerned I am for black people and what MLK has done for them.
I warn you, oh psuedo-compassionate, psuedo,-concerned, psuedo-intellectual white-guilter that you are, I’ve been in the trenches of the civil rights struggle, something I certainly suspect you have only done through back-patting pontifications from your ivy-tower. Do NOT even go there!
You are nothing but an insult to the memory of Neda. You just want to thump your chest and get faux-praise from your progressive crowd but never have the intellectuasl honesty to call-out your pres. over his own lack of compassion.
You are no different from MikeA or any other progressive who labels, calls names then gets on their high-horse with their fiegned morality to promote partisian causes.
What will not work is the hypocricy of your ilk who goes around trying tp point fingers but will never subject yourselves or anyone in your crowd to the very same standards.
More importantly, Sil, I’m curious about something . . . what is your/the Neocon/Fundie agenda in disrespecting Neda Solton and her sacrifice while peacefully seeking to protest?
Exactly what do you hope to achieve? To blot her out of history like the brutal Iranian theocrats?
It will not work.
Her death was senseless and brutal and unjust. The human spirit rebels at the unjust death of innocents.
So what’s you percentage, troll? What’s your interest in offending the memory of Neda Solton? Is it the same interest you may have in minimizing the contributions of MLK? Is it the same interest you may have in keeping torture photos censored? Is it the same interest you have in the Iranian people being deprived of their self-determination by dictators hiding behind a religious text?
I’m curious.