It goes without saying that, where there is a story of constitutional or human rights abuse, Dick Cheney cannot be far behind. It is therefore little surprise to learn this week that, according to sources in the recent disclosure of a hidden counterterrorism program, the prior concealment from Congress was allegedly ordered by Cheney.
The Central Intelligence Agency reportedly withheld information about program for eight years on orders from Cheney, who continually fought any disclosures on a host of subjects to either Congress or the courts.
As I discussed on this segment of MSNBC Countdown, it is a crime to withhold such information from Congress — yet another crime that is not being investigated by the Obama Administration.
While covert operations can be limited to disclosures to the Gang of Eight, the National Security Act of 1947 requires such disclosure.
It was previously known that Cheney’s legal adviser, David S. Addington, (another dark character in these scandals) was involved in this matter as well.
Once again, it is astonishing that Attorney General Eric Holder continues to refuse to appoint a special prosecutor to deal with the mounting allegations of criminal acts by the Bush Administration. The blocking of such investigations by the Obama Administration reaffirms the view that our intelligence services live beyond the reach of the law and that our leaders are unaccountable under the criminal laws that they apply to average citizens. While Obama insists that no one is above the law, he has ensured that we have two separate systems of justice for the powerful and the plebes.
In another story, Gen. Michael Hayden who carried out many of the presumptively unlawful programs during the Bush Administration insists that Congress was informed of this particular program, here.
For the full story, click here
How health care came into this thread is a mystery to me, that I’m not going to bother to discern. I would like to comment though on the attitude of both bdaman and IS which if I may paraphrase is I have no responsibility except to me and mine.
Now of course it is possible that one or both of you come from inherited money and so from that perspective of course it would be an obvious belief. However, since “sweat of my brow” was used I’ll take it to denote that you both either work, or you own business, or even perhaps you are in the professions.
Ton convince either of you about the proposition that we all are our neighbor’s keepers is fruitless from either a religious or moral sense. It is clear that neither of you are religious in that this is a core belief of almost all religions, and that your own concept of morality is very limited in the scope of who you feel you are obligated to assist in a societal context. You have every right to feel as you do, nor do I believe that anyone should force you to redirect your moral compasses. To my sense of morality, as you might expect, I see it as callous, but I’ve no wish to impose my moral/ethical perspective on you.
The idea that our health care costs are driven up by either illegal aliens, or by the wages of crime is one that I think you will have a hard time proving and in fact I think that while you no doubt are sincere in your belief, it is merely a “red herring” in the argument against universal health coverage.
American Health Care is in a sorry state compared to the rest of the world and while you distrust WHO, that is merely your skepticism in service to your pre-judgments. When our infant mortality, for instance, ranks lower then that in some African Nations, something is very wrong. The height of this wrongness is how medicine in the US is set up in our “market”
society.
Drug Company’s are master lobbyists and also master marketers.
Since due to my own health problems I spend a lot of time in various doctor’s offices on varied days of the week. Being a rather observant sort I am always quite aware of what goes on around me. Every time I’m there a Drug Company detail person or two arrives bringing “goodies” for all the office staff and the Doctors. Free lunch is most usual, but other times it is pretty trinkets of moderately expensive value. Doctor’s are on bonus plans based on their prescription rates for various drugs, statins are a big one because they are costly and downplayed are the crippling muscular side effects these drugs deliver. I know this because I was literally impaired walking/bending for two years by a particular statin because I was being dosed a 4x the normal dosage. As you know doubt notice these (not just statins) are advertised extensively on TV with expensive commercials, shot in glorious colors, with believable actors and small print and low voiceovers giving you the noxious, sometime deadly, side effects of the latest wonder drug to cure a syndrome, RLS anyone, that is of minor concern.
The Health Insurance Companies also are very large campaign contributors and lobbyists, who use these funds to ensure their profit margins. That their Administrative expense runs between 20 & 30% (extraordinarily high if you know anything about business)ensures the high cost of their product and large co-pays. Medicare and Medicaid, those inefficient government programs you both decry runs an admin expense of 2 to 3% and are thus able to provide more for less and they don’t have advertising budgets. Worse though about these Health Insurance Companies is that they have people, many of them social workers, who daily make arbitrary decisions about what is and isn’t coverable. These decisions are made with an eye to the bottom line, rather than the patient’s health needs. They often override a Doctor’s judgment. Sometimes the company will fight payment for a covered procedure until it becomes too late to save the patient’s life. It is a system of unmitigated greed, which “free marketeers” appear to have no problem with because of their political pre-judgments and beliefs that each person must protect themselves, right you guys?
Hospitals in the US, especially the private ones, are also part of the faulty healthcare systems so prized by advocates for the “free market.” I know hospitals well because in my seven decades of life between career, my parents, my brother, my family and myself I have spent a lot of time in and around them. The first rule one should adhere to in any Hospital, no matter what its’ reputation, is to always be alert. This is because hospitals can inadvertently kill someone not yet ready to die, by sloppiness of methodology, shortage of qualified staff and sheer incompetence. I’ve seen it happen to my clients and my wife and I have literally saved relatives through our own interventions and refusal to be cowed. My wife has saved my life on at least two occasions by questioning procedures to be done to me, where I was too ill to comprehend what was going on. As I have said elsewhere I am one of those people blessed with excellent medical coverage and access to the best the system supposedly offers.
Finally, we come to Physicians themselves. Some of the smartest, most dedicated people in the world become Physicians
because they truly feel a calling to it. I have them in my family and am awed by both their commitment to good medical care and by the breadth of intelligence they have which led them to become good Doctor’s. I have also had to fire Doctor’s, who were surprisingly and demonstrably incompetent.
In recent years far to many people have come into this profession where the bottom line is the money. I have had Doctor’s personally want to perform procedures on me, that while they were lucrative for the Doctor and fully covered by my insurance, were so unnecessary that the Doctor was unable to come up with a rational explanation for doing it.
This is a snapshot of our current health care system and everything I say could be back up by non-anecdotal material.
Our system is broken and it must be fixed for all of our sakes. If it is allowed to continue in this “free market” vein
we will have different levels of health care, based on what you can afford. You two may see that as good and if so I hope for your sake that you are wealthy enough and that you and your loved ones are healthy enough never to have to see the distinction. As rational people though you know the odds are against you.
We have lived under a system of “Free Market” Capitalism that is a misnomer. The truth is, quite provable, is that we live under a system of socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for everyone else. Our domestic policy, our foreign policy and our taxation policy has always benefited the wealthy in this country. Health Care is but one aspect of that. Leave things alone and in ten years people will be forced to sell organs to pay for food. The rich will control the organ donor distribution and perhaps even clone healthy specimens of themselves, made into idiots from birth, to serve as future organ repositories. This isn’t science fiction it is possible today.
Finally though I come to the best reason for a universal health care system and that is that a major reason we have lost our manufacturing base is due to either the virtual “slave labor” of Asia, or to the fact that most country’s of the industrial nations provide universal health care and thus remove the burden from their businesses. It is health care that is cheaper, better, more innovative and less susceptible to the ministrations of the Health Care Industry, which contrary to what one would think should be their ostensible goals, are only about profits. You guys think this laudable, I think it is disgusting and currently 73% of the American Public agrees with me, perhaps because almost everyone has encountered the sheer waste and destructiveness of the current system.
bdaman 1, July 15, 2009 at 8:25 am
Mespo, think about who and what is driving up the cost. The mere statistics on unisured births, gun shot and stabbing victims and people injured by DUI offenders alone is a MAJOR factor.
Can these be eliminated, no, will they get worse, yes
**********************
If you are referring to “Illegals” then maybe we ought to just start deportation proceedings at once, against everyone that came here Illegally. Just remember that the casino operators will have to shut down because no one will be around except for the Native Americans to run them, they will not have any customers.
Mespo, think about who and what is driving up the cost. The mere statistics on unisured births, gun shot and stabbing victims and people injured by DUI offenders alone is a MAJOR factor.
Can these be eliminated, no, will they get worse, yes
Why, Because we already see a major increase in gun sales over the last year and more will make it onto the streets. Violence increases with bad economic times. When unemployment goes up people take drastic measures. Drug addicts have to get money to support thier habit. These are the issues that need to be addressed. Health care for all is a great idea, but until you fix the problems I’ve stated above it will never make a difference, never.
Jesus answeree “A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, ‘Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.’
Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?” He said, “He who showed mercy on him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
[Luke 10:30-37]
This guy Cook VOLUNTEEEEERED for active duty.
This case is a total fraud. He volunteered to be a plaintiff. He volunteered!
QUOTE Earlier today, Quon said Cook submitted a formal written request to Human Resources Command-St. Louis on May 8, 2009 volunteering to serve one year in Afghanistan with Special Operations Command, U.S. Army Central Command, beginning July 15, 2009. The soldier’s orders were issued on June 9, Quon said.
“A reserve soldier who volunteers for an active duty tour may ask for a revocation of orders up until the day he is scheduled to report for active duty,” Quon said.
She added that there is an administrative process to request revocation of orders. As of this afternoon, Cook had not asked for his orders to be revoked, Quon said. She could not say why the soldier’s orders were pulled today by 3 p.m. CDT. UNQUOTE
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/breaking_news/story/777472.html
Major Cook and Orly Taitz, Worst Persons in the World:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#31914146
bdman:
“No, we are paying for illegals and poor minorities at a premium rate.”
***********
They are your neighbors too. Your other comment about the quality of other industrialized nations healthcare is just foolish. We’re 37th for a reason, your distrust of the WHO notwithstanding. Jingoism and dislike of minorities makes for poor argument strategy, but, take heart, it apparently does qualify you to be a US Senator form Alabama.
“I do not owe my neighbor healthcare, my time is my own and I have a right to the sweat of my brow. I am not my neighbors slave, producing for his sake. … My neighbors need for healthcare is not my responsibility, I owe him nothing and he owes me nothing.”
Indentured Servant
“No man is an Iland, intire of it selfe; every man is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine; if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as well as if a Mannor of thy friends or of thine own were; any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.”
IPCC says we are gonna burn to death and drown. This is just one story of thousands. Anybody that lives in the Northeast will tell you they are still waiting for summer to start. Record low temps again overnight. I think Deluth Minn was in the low to mid 30’s this morning, in the middle of July
Almost 250 children under the age of five have died in a wave of intensely cold weather in Peru.
Children die from pneumonia and other respiratory infections every year during the winter months particularly in Peru’s southern Andes.
But this year freezing temperatures arrived almost three months earlier than usual.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8146995.stm
Rafflaw, Thanks for the link but I don’t trust anything the WHO or the IPCC says. Nothing. If you haven’t looked at this you’ll understand why.
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6636 Talk about government keeping secrets. Watch this 60 minute interview, come this fall you’ll be glad you did.
Read this: http://www.newsmax.com/health/vaccine_swine_flu/2009/07/07/232717.html
I wonder if members of the military who are now given deployment orders will start forming a single file in front of Taitz. Dangerous
After Drudge linked to it the last couple of days and Fox News doing an on air segment with Brett Bair, the military has canceled reservist Major Cooks deployment orders without comment. No reason has been given to Major Cook however his case was set for Friday. Very interesting
Bdaman,
If you are interested in where the US stands in health care in the world, here is a link to a WHO ranking that has us at 37th best health care system. You might be surprised who is in front of the US. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html. The US needs health care for everyone, not just the ones who can afford it.
mespo727272 every other industrialized nation takes the opposite view and provides healthcare to its citizens.
And what is the quality of those systems and just cause the Johnsons have it why do I. Secondly if it’s going to be such a great system why is congress, the senate and the president exempt from participation.
you are already paying for your uninsured neighbor and at premium rates
No, we are paying for illegals and poor minorities at a premium rate.
IS:
“You cannot as a country provide healthcare for everyone, it is not a constitutional guarantee. There has got to be a private sector solution to this problem.’
***************
Unfortunately for your argument, every other industrialized nation takes the opposite view and provides healthcare to its citizens. BTW the proposal calls only for a public option not single payer which makes more sense. i wonder if you feel the same way about Medicare which is universal care for the elderly. More relevant, I wonder how you will feel about “socialized” medicine when you are 65??
—-
“I am not my neighbors slave, producing for his sake. This country was not founded on equality of outcome but on equality of opportunity. My neighbors need for healthcare is not my responsibility, I owe him nothing and he owes me nothing.”
**************
I think the actual quote is “I am not my brother’s keeper,” but why quibble, since we all know how that little saga worked out. The point is merely that by forcing the uninsured to use emergency departments at hospitals for free, who in turn pass the cost on to you, you are already paying for your uninsured neighbor and at premium rates. I would think you’d want a reduction or do you favor letting the uninsured “eat cake,” as they die in the streets due to lack of care?
Mespo72^3:
I think Dennis is manipulating the statistics somewhat, Canadians who have some money typically buy an additional premium for private insurance. So some of the statistics that the congressman is quoting are probably not accurate.
The main point of National Healthcare is that it will be rationed and that the elderly and disabled will have to be given less resources so that younger and healthy people are taken care of. You cannot as a country provide healthcare for everyone, it is not a constitutional guarantee. There has got to be a private sector solution to this problem.
I do not owe my neighbor healthcare, my time is my own and I have a right to the sweat of my brow. I am not my neighbors slave, producing for his sake. This country was not founded on equality of outcome but on equality of opportunity. My neighbors need for healthcare is not my responsibility, I owe him nothing and he owes me nothing.
As far as Cheneys illegal program goes it was reported in some papers including the Washington Post sometime directly after 9/11 and was never implemented. This is a political effort to make Nancy Pelosi credible in light of her recent protestations about never having been briefed.
I cannot wait for 2010 and freedom. Hopefully Obama and his crew will not have had enough time to add to the damage the idiot Bush has done to America. A 1/2 punch of stupidity and malfesence from the right and left.
Vince I just re read my post and let me clarify, that no student from Columbia has been mentioned in an interview and that even though he was the president of Harvard Law Review he never published any work. Why would his press secretary correct Helen Thomas and tell her she was wrong when asking that she thought he taught constitutional law. I know you can’t answer for Gibbs, but if anybody knows, Gibbs should. Whats worse is nobody followed up his statement. He did not correct his statement to the best of my knowledge and it is noted on the daily press briefing on the whitehous.gov website. I’m sure they review it and could issue a correction.
The press suck at follow up. Thats like Jake Trapper asked for copies of the waivers that the president had to issue because of his appointments of lobbiest and to this date they refuse to release them. Sen. Charles Grassley is demanding they release them but they have refused. Everything just goes against the openness and transparency slogan.
Patriot thanks for the defense but I’m a big boy now. If you want to get in the discussion get in, if not but out.
“Jim, pull your head out of the toilet. I can post what I plaese, comprende?”
patriot,
You certainly can post what you please and I encourage you to do so because all you’re doing is calling attention to the fact
that you have nothing to say. I’ve always believed in the individuals right to make a fool of oneself. You show consummate skill in that department.