This is almost hypnotic. One of the leaders at a Tea Party event with the Citizens of Liberty holds forth on the science of global warming. [Note: there will be no academic credit awarded for this Internet learning exercise].
The site for this organization makes clear that this is about a world socialist agenda:
No, nothing will ever be enough for these extremists. Because it really isn’t about saving the planet in the first place. It’s about pushing a socialist agenda to cripple the capitalist nations of the west. It’s about wealth redistribution and socialist schemes under the guise of environmentalism.
While nothing will ever be enough to straighten out the socialists and other Koolaid drinkers, we have more than enough for the American people to force our government to stop treating us worse than foreign dictators and stop this cap and trade global warming tax nonsense in the Senate.
I had to add this to our library of hard-right science, here.
MILES
damn it
MILES
Pardon, my A-game is going to be off for a while. I just spent a large chunk of my evening with a weeping mother. My quality my suffer as I prioritize my brain power to the most pressing problems at hand.
186,000 ft./sec
bdaman,
The problem with sunspots is simply this: the sunspot cycle has nothing to do with global warming. Zip, zero and nada. They impact solar and space weather, but unless you’re a satellite or on the ISS, the ozone protects you from anything a sunspot or a flare could emit (which is mostly radio energy and not heat, this phenomena is caused by collapsing EM fields). Solar flares and prominences, while huge and impressive, some large enough to engulf Earth many times over . . . they are very far away. For the heat of solar flare to reach us?
It’s 93 million miles away. M-I-L-L-I-O-N. That’s so far astronomers use it as standard measure of local distance(s), the AU (astronomical unit). Another way to think of how large that distance is is to factor this into your thinking: The speed of light is 186,000/sec. It takes EIGHT MINUTES FOR SUNLIGHT TO REACH EARTH.
The sunspot cycle has an effect on SPACE weather, but the EM spectra they emit is not primarily heat, but radio energy. It screws with space ships, satellites, radio astronomy, and anything electronic and unshielded to no end, but it’s not a heat adding transaction to our little mudball. Sunspots in fact slightly cool the area where they erupt, but their net impact to total heat emitted is small enough to be inconsequential. The radio output, however, can be staggering. Our sun is a main sequence G V class star. Part of the salient features of these types are star are not just color (white to yellow) and their smallish size (often given the misnomer “yellow dwarf”), but their very steady rate of burn. There is a variation of luminosity but it falls within very narrow range and happens on very long time scales. Very. This is due largely to mass and gravity. Stars in this section of the main sequence have great stability due to homeostasis between the pull of gravity and the mass of the burning fuel. Ours does the balancing act very well thankfully for us humans. Yeah, we get cyclical ice ages, but evidence from the fossil record indicates that the most devastating weather events to ever happen on Earth are/were caused by either vulcanism or asteroid/cometary impact, by radical changes to chemistry early in Earth’s history (at one point there was so much oxygen it would be toxic to modern life, but the giant insects loved it) but not solar activity like flares or increased average output. This is not to say there are not dangerous stars out there. Look into a Cepheid Variable and then tell me our stable and well behaved star causes global warming. You can’t, because it doesn’t. Our boring little stable sun over the lifespan of ALL humanity has much less effect on they thermodynamic system of Earth than you’d expect. The heat output is for all intents and purposes stable. Our atmospheric chemistry however HAS been changed. And by us. It’s only getting worse. And that’s the part of the equation holding in the excess heat, not the sun.
I used to tutor astronomy. I can rattle on about how wrong this tack on global warming is all day long. Our star is steady, predictable and boring.
Want to focus on a real conspiracy related to global warming that threatens us all? Quit wasting time denying the science and ask why the most vocal critics, who are NOT scientists by the way, but businessmen and politicians, are so interested in maintaining the status quo in light of evidence that we could be rendering the planet uninhabitable by humans? Uninhabitable by humans that may be alive today, as in your children and grandchildren. If you answer anything other than greed, short-sighted myopia and the egoistic evil that drive people like Cheney, then you’re not paying attention.
IS: It was thought to start occuring in 2012-2015 if bdaman is right about his temps, looks like the Russian was off by a few years.
http://www.iceagenow.com/Record_Lows_2009.htm
Good site for you and everyone else that believes co2, all by itself, is the blame for everything related to Global Warming, Global Cooling, Global Flooding, Global Fires ect ect
Our government and the major news media are not reporting the consequences due to the weather destroying crops and reducing yields. I found numerous articles all over the world mentioning cold-weather damage.
Hail and rain damage! I’ve never seen so much hail damage – it seems to be hailing all over the USA. Here in North Florida I’ve seen more hail in the last 4 months than in my entire lifetime!
http://www.iceagenow.com/Crop_reduction_60_percent_in_some_cases.htm
You don’t hear this discussed much but the sun’s solar flares/sun spots have been very quiet. In 2008 266 days went by without a single spot appearing on the star, which accounted for 73 percent of the entire year. In 2009, out of the 189 days that have passed, 142 have been without spots (75 percent). Such a reduced activity has astronomers thinking, because we are nearing the point of the lowest-ever-recorded statistics on solar activity. These data can be traced back to 1913, when the Sun lit without a spot for 311 days.
On May 19, 2009, record low temperatures were recorded in 28 states, more than half the states in the United States of America. Many of these record low temperatures are the lowest in 100 years, and some the lowest in 115 years. Iceagenow.com, a web portal tracking global temperatures reports, “If there had been record warmth in 28 states, your would have seen ‘we’re-causing-global-warming’ headlines plastered across the front page of almost every newspaper in the country, and TV hosts would have gleefully announced the dire news. . . . But had you even heard about this?”
NOAA’s full report on these locations and record low temperatures is set out at the end of this Examiner.com article.
RESURGENT SUNSPOT: Yesterday, sunspot 1024 took the day off; the fast-growing active region stopped growing and even decayed a little. Today, the sunspot is growing again. It now measures 125,000 km from end to end, almost as wide as the planet Jupiter. This 3-day movie from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) shows recent developments:
The size of the spot makes it a fine target for backyard solar telescopes. And it is worth watching. Sunspot 1024 is the first big sunspot of new Solar Cycle 24, and it is crackling with minor but photogenic B-class flares. By itself, this one active region won’t bring an end to the deepest solar minimum in a century, but it does show that the sun’s magnetic dynamo is still working–a fact some had begun to doubt.
The problem with the whole Global Warming/Climate Change is it’s based on a COMPUTER MODEL. Not to mention that co2 is blamed for everything that is dying, going extinct, drying up, making places flood, Creating major hurricanes, changing the evolution process. Nothing else is ever considered.
N. Dakota farmer on Cold July: ‘Al Gore should be out here’…
With a summer like this, you can`t tell my Dad there`s global warming.”I think Al Gore and his group should be out here and tell us about this global warming stuff.
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2009/07/16/n-dakota-farmer-on-cold-july-al-gore-should-be-out-here/
Budah: Ask a farmer how important weather is.
DUBLIN, N.H. — The Old Farmer’s Almanac is going further out on a limb than usual this year, not only forecasting a cooler winter, but looking ahead decades to suggest we are in for global cooling, not warming.
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2008-09-09-farmers-almanac_N.htm
The media is telling us farmers that we need to be afraid of these rapidly changing weather patterns, but I don’t think the weather patterns are any different than when I first started farming over 50 years ago,” Chamberlain said.
http://universe.byu.edu/node/1029
Russian scientist issues global cooling warning
“15:5325/08/2006
ST. PETERSBURG, August 25 (RIA Novosti)- Global cooling could develop on Earth in 50 years and have serious consequences before it is replaced by a period of warming in the early 22nd century, a Russian scientist said Friday.
Environmentalists and scientists today focus on the dangers of global warming provoked by man’s detrimental effect on the planet’s climate, but global cooling – though never widely supported – is a theory postulating an overwhelming cooling of the Earth which could involve glaciation.”
It was thought to start occuring in 2012-2015 if bdaman is right about his temps, looks like the Russian was off by a few years.
bdaman:
“Fish have lost half their average body mass and smaller species are making up a larger proportion of European fish stocks as a result of global warming, a study published Monday has found.”
I read an article in a magazine called the week or this week about sheep getting smaller because of global warming. the thought was that since the weather is getting warmer the runts are able to survive and reproduce because they don’t have to contend with the cold. Supposedly since 1985 sheep are getting smaller by about 3% per decade. The reduction could also be because of better medical care but they are saying global warming is the cause.
Gyges:
“I assume that everyone that comes here comes here to learn and to help eliminate their mental blind spots.”
Exactly. I just have very strong opinions about things and if I think I am right I will hold onto a belief until it has been proven to be wrong or it can be logically refuted.
I dont mind back and forth at all but I dont like being called a racist (not that you did) or told I am JAQing off.
You, Mike Spindell, Mike Appleton, Mespo and Buddha are all very interesting intellects and since I am pretty one way in my beliefs I find it challenging and interesting to read your posts.
Thanks Buddha, I just didn’t have the energy to explain that. I would just add (since most people seem to think that a 1 degree temperature rise is small), to consider the enormous amount of energy needed to raise the mean temperature of the earth one degree celsius.
BIL I love you man and you can post some really well thought out educated bullshit yourself. Now how many days has the sun gone without sunspots. Are we in a solar maximum or minimum.
Hey Bil I take great appreciation that it twas I who got you to post. Hope your doing well my friend.
Jesus H. Christ.
I’m still on sabbatical, but I can’t let that slide.
That is the stupidest thing to ever come out of your mouth, bdaman.
Global warming doesn’t mean the temperature everywhere is going to be warmer. Everyone got that? Bad name for a complex concept. Here is what it really means:
The atmosphere is a thermodynamic engine. It takes energy from the sun and tidal actions of the moon in combination with the astrological process known as procession and it creates what we perceive as weather and seasons. The dynamic interaction and high energy state of weather boundary zones, like tidal pools or thermal vents, gave rise to life on this mudball such as it is but that evolution was in part predicated on a somewhat (and this is a REAL IMPORTANT WORD) predictable patterns in weather that emergent life could exploit. You hunt in the spring and summer and hibernate in the winter if you want an example. Some creatures like corals only breed at certain times of the year in very specific weather conditions. Ask a farmer how important weather is.
What global warming means is more heat is put into the system than the system is naturally able to accommodate by either removing the CO2 via oceanic scrubbing (a much less robust process than we originally thought) or by reflection and ablation into space. Chlorofluorocarbons bond with other molecules in the upper atmosphere and prevent that heat from escaping. This retained extra heat causes instability. See thermodynamics and complexity theory for further clarification. In this case, it’s not direct heat, but chemicals we use on industrial levels that prevent waste heat from escaping back into space. We’d have the same result though if we just lit a bunch of crap on fire, detonated enough nukes or were unlucky enough to be around next time Yellowstone blows up.
The weather isn’t “getting warmer”. It’s getting crazier.
LESS PREDICTABLE.
Global warming may mean some places get hotter. It also means some places will get colder, wetter and/or dryer than in the previous weather cycles. Cycles for which our knowledge is largely represented by data collected by paleo-climatologists and covers the huge spans of time before the industrial revolution when we WERE NOT PUTTING HEAT RETAINING CHEMICALS INTO THE AIR other than farts and campfires. If you use that as a baseline, you should only be looking at narrow range data that has a comparison to the pollution causing global warming today: like the eruption of shield volcanoes or asteroid impacts that put huge amounts of material into aerial suspension naturally AND screw up the global weather. Otherwise, you’ll never see the issue because of all that other “good data” – data which LIKE ALL DATA, is only good in and with proper context. And if you look at the data in context, yeah, we’ve just about broken the atmosphere to the point where one day the ozone layer will just go away.
Enjoy the gamma rays and host of other high energy cosmic rays that will rain down like atomic death when that ozone gives up the ghost. If the searing droughts and unpredictable floods don’t starve us all to death first.
But that’s not important, is it? It won’t happen in your life time. Will it? Care to wager on that? How about wager that on the lives of your children? Let’s make that bet interesting, shall we?
Deniers of global warming who use the “it’s cooler now” argument fail to understand the basics of thermodynamics, meteorology and physical geography. There is no disagreement among scientists as a whole at this point. Only pols afraid of losing the graft money they get from polluting industries they’d have to force to change their ways or shut down entirely. Well, the pols and those who are swallowing their denier propaganda.
It’s an argument based in ignorance. Pure ignorance. You’ve said a lot of fringe stuff I’ve never called you on, bdaman, but I’m calling “Bullshit” on this one. I know it’s hard to accept that we are capable of ruining something as grandiose as the weather. The increase of unpredictable and deadly weather over the last 20 years says otherwise.
http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/2008/world/north-america/global-warming-to-increase-unpredictable-weather-pacific-institutes-heather-s-cooley-testifies-before-congress/
Record low temperatures at 13 sites in Saskatchewan –
one going back to 1900, another to 1911 – 16 Jul 09
Winter arrives three months early in Peru, killing 246 children
under the age of five – 12 Jul 09
Coldest May on record in New Zealand – 2nd coldest June – 10 Jul 09
See What’s Happening in Other Parts of the World.
Gore’s hometown: Record cold breaks 1877 record
‘Set when Rutherford B. Hayes was president’ – Nashville’s
58 degrees on Tuesday wiped out the previous record low for
the date of 60 degrees, set in 1877. It was the third morning in
a row when Nashville either tied or broke a daily low
temperature record.
See: http://www.climatedepot.com/
Record low temperatures in 31 states
19 Jul 09
__________________
New records: 183 + Tied: 73 = Total: 256
AL, AR, DE, FL, GA, IA, ID, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA,
MD, MI, MN, MO, MS, NC, ND, NE, NJ, OH, OK,
PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, VA, WI, WV
http://www.iceagenow.com/Record_low_temps_in_31_states-19Jul09.htm
I do a tropical analysis during hurricane season. This is a copy of one I sent out recently. East Coasters be prepared just in case.
I’ve been tracking a tropical disturbance the last couple of days east of the Leeward Islands but didn’t want to jump the gun. It did not look like it would hold together. This system has been tagged 97L by the NHC a few days ago. Wind shear remains high at this time and the NHC is still giving it a 30% chance of developing in the next 48 hours. This area will slide thru the Islands today and track towards Cuba. Most of the model guidance agree that a piece of Invest 97L will break off and track into the area of the Bahamas by later Wednesday and may evolve into some sort of a tropical entity off of the US Southeast coast by late this week and into this weekend. The model guidance, however, does not agree on where exactly this possible sub-tropical or tropical system will form. The CMC is forecasting development around the 48-72 hour mark coming up the coast from South Florida while the GFS keeps it as disorganized showers and thunderstorms. I will update you as soon as I get a better handle on the convection that has fired back up again today in spite of the strong windshear.
Slartibartfast thank you for the explanation. I have read and read and read how we are not suppose to mix science and politics together. This is kinda tuff right now when you consider that politics is mixing with science.
most scientists (good ones anyway) don’t have a political agenda in the practice of science.
The ones that do have a political Agenda are the ones that are pushing us and cramming it down our throat that Co2 is the one and only thing that is driving climate change. Co2 is the sole driver. You probably agree with that, right?
Then how come the statistical data says different. Not just the last year, thousands of years. Is Al Gore a scientist or a political driver. When this administration censors an employee of the EPA because it doesn’t fit with thier agenda, isn’t this mixing science with a political agenda. When Al Gore says the science is settled there will be no more debate when in reality nothing has been settled. Yes I yern for an honest open debate about climate change. There is one thing we know thats a fact the climate has been changing for thousands of years just like the suns output. The only thing the sun has done latley is rise. It ain’t puttin out alot of burst and this has alot more to do with temps than Co2.
Slart,
I told you you could do a better job then me.
Jill,
Again, I apologize for misrepresenting your position. Could you please tell me how I misrepresented you so I don’t make the mistake again.
bdaman,
Gyges asked me to explain the concept of statistical outliers to you in light of your repeated lists of temperature records, but I think that you are making a more fundamental mistake, which is to look at very small pieces (CO_2 level or high and low temperatures, for example) of what is a very large and complex system (our planet) and then you use these tiny snapshots to make statements about the system. Scientists try to look at subsystems which are large enough to have interesting dynamics yet small enough that we can understand aspects of them. You’re using bits of scientific data to fallaciously support a political position. What many people don’t seem to understand is that most scientists (good ones anyway) don’t have a political agenda in the practice of science. It’s hard enough to figure out what’s going on from the data alone that trying to spin the facts as well makes it nearly impossible to understand what you are studying (which is why most of us got into this in the first place). Our scientific understanding is getting better all of the time and our politics should be informed by the best understanding of science available no matter what it says, not used to justify pre-determined political positions.