Below is today’s brief column in the Los Angeles Times where I joined other writers on how each of us believes President Obama can earn the Nobel Prize, here. For civil libertarians, Obama’s selection is the ultimate triumph of hope over experience. My suggestion is probably predictable for people on this blog.
Appoint a prosecutor for war crimes
Jonathan Turley
To truly earn the Nobel Peace Prize, President Obama needs to transform himself from a barrier to a beacon when it comes to human rights and international law.
The most obvious start would be to fulfill our obligations under treaties and international law to appoint a special prosecutor, without limitations, to investigate and prosecute any war crimes committed by U.S. officials. Obama already has acknowledged that waterboarding is torture and that torture is a war crime, yet his administration is blocking investigations that are the prerequisite to justice. Obama has promised CIA employees as a group that they would not be prosecuted for torture for following orders, despite the long-standing finding from the Nuremburg trials that “just following orders” is no defense for a war crime. Appointing a special prosecutor would show that Obama will not continue to circumvent principle for politics. He could further demonstrate his commitment to international law by dropping his opposition to the release of photographs and other records showing our abuse of detainees.
Doing the right thing often demands decisions that are neither popular nor easy. If Obama wants to show that the peace prize is more than the superficial triumph of a cult of personality, he can start by showing that his own country is willing to pay the price demanded by the law of nations.
Jonathan Turley is a law professor at George Washington University and has served as lead counsel in various major national security and constitutional cases.
I am going to hopefully put together an essay on Human Rights. I’ve got some notes, and a working definition. If y’all don’t mind, I’d like to get your views–and they will be attributed to you in the manner most comfortable to you. Also, you set the parameters–and I will use views I may find distasteful, but I’m trying to eliminate as much subjectivity as possible.
Please give some thought while I pull one or two questions out to talk? If it’s ok with you, Professor. While it might be more appropriate to do it on my blog, your set up is well-organized, and there’s an impressive pool of intellect and education. Or, you can go ahead now and speak about what’s important to you now regarding human rights. Are we talking mostly First Amendment, or do you think economics (right to shelter, health care, etc.) is a vital component?
I began planning this to discuss what’s happening here: Detention without trial, verdict, sentence, suspension of Habeas Corpus, etc. But as I’ve mentioned, I’ve made friends with some very brave and dedicated Fijans who are living under a military dictatorship, so that will be about half of what I write.
My only fear is that I will get sick, and I will feel since it’s not 100%, I won’t post it. But that’s my problem.
If this is not permitted, please tell me so. Sorry for being bold and leaping before I look. Remember, I’ve worked with many lawyers and law professors, and they reward arrogance. It’s become habit, and I mean no disrespect to Professor Turley, this site, nor anyone else.
thank you for your time. Be well and may you swim in
Sweet tides
He can’t earn it, Part II:
War is Peace
“We have forged a new beginning between America and the Muslim World – one that recognizes our mutual interest in breaking a cycle of conflict, and that promises a future in which those who kill innocents are isolated by those who stand up for peace and prosperity and human dignity.”
A reminder: December 10th is Human Rights Day. BloggersUnite has a lot of activities and I don’t think you need a blog to join in/ contribute written material–or any material for that matter.
Also, beginning December 5, Amnesty International is starting their Global Write-A-Thon. See AI for details, ideas, etc.
Since we’re discussing human rights, war crimes….just another forum.
Hope everyone is well.
Sweet tides,
The answer to this is, he can’t. And there’s more. How bout those war crimes?
“Finally, we must draw on the strength of our values – for the challenges that we face may have changed, but the things that we believe in must not. That is why we must promote our values by living them at home – which is why I have prohibited torture and will close the prison at Guantanamo Bay. And we must make it clear to every man, woman and child around the world who lives under the dark cloud of tyranny that America will speak out on behalf of their human rights, and tend to the light of freedom, and justice, and opportunity, and respect for the dignity of all peoples. That is who we are. That is the moral source of America’s authority” (Obama’s propaganda ops, oops, I mean speech last night.
Hey Vince.It’s called “satire” and for you to think that I think Glen Beck would communicate with me in any way that was not for me “psychotic” I wish so I could tell him he’s a good hustler but a loathsome human being.I take their ridiculous paranoia and make fun of it with “parody”,get it?But must say that some of Lib’s take ourselves so seriously and think Obama is anything but a politician with better qualification and motivations than most we are deluding ourselves so it also was a parody of liberal absolutism that borders on soft (benevolent)totalitarianism that it’s also a jab at us if obviously hyperbolic over statement. with this comparison.Geez lighten up.
Chazz
Gyges, thanks for the playlist. I had another two paragraphs, but in the interest of avoiding length/tedium, I’ll just say, there’s a green cheese moon in your future. I will find one w/link.
Vince–Chazzbo would be good at ‘clogging up threads’ but not this one. Maybe Americans for Prosperity and the like. Dealing with astroturfers & (political) tea baggers is “like hypnotizing chickens’ to him.
The Apologist will not be a regular feature–I urged Chazzbo to post the Anthem. We all have our disappointments with Obama; Chazzbo worked on his campaign, funny stories there. His post was tongue-in-cheek: I thought it obvious. Glen Beck was talking to HIM over the TV waves?? I think it’s funny. It is relevant: Our friendly terrorists call U.State home. We were both surprised about the remnants of Stalin (will I get sued for that?)
Point is, I ENCOURAGED HIM TO post it. Have you ever seen anyone that crazy here? I really want to know. Chazzbo doesn’t need my defense, he’s a more than capable man.
AY, we share qualities that you’ve brought to light today: “I can do anything I set my mind to.” “I can think outside of the box.” I have testimonials to that effect. We should work on something.
I have always played well with others. I think that you do, too. You do your share of ass-kicking, and we have that in common, and so does FF Leo, and others…don’t want to leave anyone out.(I act when someone screws with me or mine; I’m very loyal, even, esp. here.) I think I’m gonna start taking names. Not to make a list–because I’m getting confused…too much on the mind.
I don’t only brag about myself; I will brag about those I admire, and that means you guys and gals.(I think GWLawMom said something very nice to me, and I forgot to thank her.So I digress, but divert only in life-and-death struggles.)
Please remember: I’m a dinosaur and used to set up & visit “bulletin boards.” Rules of procedure and etiquette in posting have changed.
N.B. The final lines:
The courageous spirit of your ancestors is with you!
When the great power of the people raged,
(You were) the country that charmed the world!
Replace ancestors with Founding Fathers: Doesn’t that sound like something we all know and love? Any imperialist country, for that matter. I’m not big on nationalism, but when push comes to shove…and thank you all for your patience.
I tried to delete as much as I could, but must leave for yet another app’t w/drs. Thank God (in my polytheistic way)for Medicare, for I would be dead without it. Sweet Tides, Linda
FFLEO and Jay,
According to Rory Stewart who was interviewed by Bill Moyers, the decision to send troops was already made and the military report is irrelevant except as window dressing for the public. He also overheard the actual number of troops that they want is 600,000. Good Morning Vietnam!
Here’s a short quote:
“They listen politely, but in the end, of course, basically the policy decision is made. What they would like is little advice on some small bit. I mean, the analogy that one of my colleagues used recently is this: it’s as though they come to you and they say, “We’re planning to drive our car off a cliff. Do we wear a seatbelt or not?” And we say, “Don’t drive your car off the cliff.” And they say, “No, no, no. That decision’s already made. The question is should we wear our seatbelts?” And you say, “Why by all means wear a seatbelt.” And they say, “Okay, we consulted with policy expert, Rory Stewart,” et cetera.”
(courtesy of Democratic Underground)
FFLeo:
GRAB A MOP, DUDE!!
You Betcha’ Jay,
Quote:
“McChrystal reportedly offered Obama different options graded by risk. He is said to have suggested that adding even 20,000 more to the 68,000 already committed to the fight would still run a high risk of failure, while that risk would be lowest if the White House dispatched a further 60,000 to 80,000 troops. The reinforcement number talked about in many of the press reports on Obama’s dilemma — a little upward of 40,000 new troops — represents McChrystal’s medium risk scenario.”
End Quote.
What’s a few thousand more dead ‘merkins anyway to an “*Ignoble* Nobel Prize winner…He don’t even have to “keep his eye on ‘da prize” ’cause he done “won” hit….
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1930896,00.html
HoooHawww! Those Norwegians are looking like geniuses now, aren’t they!!
Thanks for your response, but I have no intention of debating opinion(s), just writing my own. Nor will I resort to profane and vulgar nouns as a means of labeling anyone or group that takes issues with my opinion. Indeed!
Just another troll posting, this time by “Chazzbo,” with nothing to with the thread, just more inane anti-Obama ranting. What DOES that anthem have to do with anything?
You know Porf. I was alternating between your blog and Glen Beck when Beck stopped talking to the wider world and began to speak directly TO ME!!He suggested that I go to Wkipedia and look up something specific when he told that the Obama team is drawing inspiration from-The Uzbeks specifically their National Anthem which embodies the spirit of not only their polity but ours as well!!Imagine my surprise that it all made sense when till that moment I thought that Uzbekistan was a land where the zeitgeist alternates between full crazed Stalinist aparatchiks and full crazed Jihadi’s being the a major interchange on the lunatic terror super highway.But they,and now I know Obama knows,that their doctrine and spirit are so simply identified in this their anthem.They like Obama do not fall into the trap of false modesty as it ends with the line “(You were)the country that charmed the world”.For your Dancing and dining pleasure:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Uzbekistan_anthem.ogg
My sunny free land, happiness and salvation to your people,
You are a warmhearted companion to your friends!
Flourish forever with learning and creativity,
May your glory shine as long as the world exists!
These golden valleys – dear Uzbekistan,
The courageous spirit of your ancestors is with you!
When the great power of the people raged,
(You were) the country that charmed the world!
The faith of an open-hearted Uzbek does not die out,
The young free generation is a strong wing for you!
Beacon of independence, guardian of peace,
Lover of truth, motherland, flourish forever!
These golden valleys – dear Uzbekistan,
The courageous spirit of your ancestors is with you!
When the great power of the people raged,
(You were) the country that charmed the world!
cont,
ver, I do not think that I should have started cutting class in 6th grade. I think the basic english lesson were taught then. Oh well who knew, what I’d be doing today. A good secretary can run an office six months after you are dead, if it is run correctly.
scribadiva,
I don’t think that I belong in any class except for one by myself. You see I never learned to play with others very well. I was taught the difference between right and wrong and I try and do what is in my heart right. If that means screwing someone over in the process, so be it. Some heads must roll.
I have never been one to go along to get along and have my unique charm to thank. I as you can tell, do not mind a challenge and rise to the occasion when it is something that I know. The birther and tenther issues are something that I am interested in but only marginally. Now if you want to talk the civil war or circuses I am game.
I have heard that there are some organizations that pay people such as bdaman to clog up a thread. Well, I want to know who is going to pay me. This is fun and I can grow hay and I can build a house. I am one of those fortunate people that I can do anything I set my mind to. I can think outside of the box. Howe
Scriba,
As far as BDAman goes, I’d suggest skimming through any of the more recent posts with 100+ comments about Obama’s citizenship. I wouldn’t spend too much time reading them (although if you want a great point by point explanation about why the Birther Nonsense is just that, read everything Vince writes), but it’ll give you a good feel of why he’s greeted the way he is. Especially if you start about 2/3rds of the way through.
You’re right about torture not working. Which was my point. You could very easily replace Bob Esq.’s famous:
1. All celestial Bodies are made of green cheese
2. The moon is a celestial body
Therefore
3. The moon is made of green cheese.
With John’s:
1. Torture works to extract good intelligence quickly.
2. We need good intelligence quickly from these detainees.
Therefore
3. We need to torture these detainees.
A note, a quote, from someone I think everyone can agree is “reasonably intelligent” at minimum:
We are at the very beginning of time for the human race. It is not unreasonable that we grapple with problems. But there are tens of thousands of years in the future. Our responsibility is to do what we can, learn what we can, improve the solutions, and pass them on.
– Richard Feynman
AY, VT, Gyges and like-minded individuals (I’m trying not to forget someone):
Apparently, you are dealing with a known entity and its tactics. I’ll have to look up ‘troll posting’ but I can guess what you mean.
Anybody who thinks torture works is a sadistic, well, idiot. It elicits false confessions, or worse, gives us facts we already know. The FBI agent that got an Al-Queda member to talk used diabetic-suitable cookies, and he sang like a canary–with relevant stuff.
The argument for torture in the Bush Administration (I hold Feith responsible as well as others) was this simple: These terrorists don’t wear uniforms, and because they are not good enough to be treated under the rules of the Geneva Convention, in reality, using the GC standards somehow degrades the ideals of the GC. Tommy Franks called Feith “the stupidest fuck on the planet,” while Rummie said he was “a genius.”
If you love our Constitution, if you care about our men and women fighting/being captured anywhere, you will agree with GC policies, if only because it’s in the best interest of our own military.
We also have evidence that when they ask for release of prisoners in exchange for, say, a plane load of people, they do keep their word (India in the 90’s.) I don’t agree with that policy, but you can’t say “they would do it anyway.
Did I just get ‘trolled?’ Can’t help it; I re-joined the ACLU and Amnesty precisely because of this issue.
AY, I do believe you are a man of your word. Will you sink that sludge, because the stench of paranoid sadism is making me ill.
Again, to Prof. JT, thank you for signing that letter. THAT’S what counts.
bdaman,
What road are you speaking of that you were trying to go down. Certainly, you as I and other have the opportunity to express any ideal within reason or not. Based upon the thread/subject matter or not.
I am just going to limit my response to the answer posed by you. You don’t ask questions. You make statements without knowing the facts, which are generally based upon a presentation for media ratings by another commentator.
When you come back and you will, under this screen name or another one, you will ask the same statement based upon a desired outcome. The last one you had, what would you say “Hi-Jacked” the thread without reason. I have my trusty lil blackberry (crapberry) and laptop to respond to you anywhere, anyplace and at anytime. So please bring it on.
I think that others on the list will appreciate if you confine your answers to questions.
When I was practicing, I told you what I was going to do in the initial letter. I never made threats that I did not keep. I am a man of my word and generally honor, hence I do what I say.
John,
Our enemy doesn’t care about our Constitution so neither should we?
I should point out, your major premise is false. I can prove the moon is made from Green Cheese in the same way you can prove that torture is necessary.