Scientists Find Footprints from 395 Millions Years Ago . . . Creationists See Another Muddy Mistake

Scientists have dated “hand” and “foot” prints in Poland that may be the oldest ever found of a four-legged creature. The prints were left in the early Middle Devonian period roughly 400 millions years ago. Of course, for creationists, who insist that the Bible shows that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, these are just muddy footprints and the scientists are off by 394,994,000 years in their calculations.

The prints were left by lizard-like creatures up to 2.5 metres long and found in a former quarry in the Holy Cross Mountains in south-eastern Poland.

The discovery shatters some theories on the transition from water to land and pushing back that time schedule by almost 20 million years.

For those Middle Devonian wannabes, here is a site on the period.

For the full story, click here.

61 thoughts on “Scientists Find Footprints from 395 Millions Years Ago . . . Creationists See Another Muddy Mistake”

  1. Byron said:
    “are you telling me we did land on the moon?”

    Of course not. That was just a distraction to hide the building of a base on Mars.


    I’m sorry that it’s hard for you to read.


    I find it fascinating the logical knots that otherwise rational people can tie themselves in order to stubbornly preserve a cherished illogical notion. I’ve been watching Phillip Berg’s paralegal wildly misinterpret and selectively quote law in order to (ineptly) defend her boss’s theory that Barack Obama became an Indonesian Citizen and thereby lost his US citizenship in the face of reasoned opposition citing standard meanings of law and well-understood interpretations of court decisions from multiple opponents. No matter how many times the errors in her logic are pointed out, she just finds some small point in the opposing argument that she can misinterpret and attack. A while ago, Gyges suggested that I ask Bob what would convince him that he was wrong. I’m beginning to think that if God Almighty appeared to him in a host of angels bathed in the divine light and spake unto him in a voice like thunder words written on high, he would still object that he knew better based on nothing more than his silver-tongued empty rhetoric.

  2. Byron,

    That’s okay, I’m completely sure of the physics. And the immunity to reasonable argument seems to be a comment facet of all conspiracy theorists – thermiters, truthers, birthers, those that believe the Apollo missions were a hoax (mooners?), and so on. I’ve put my faith in the scientific method and it hasn’t let me down yet…

  3. Byron–

    “It seems to be on the level of a religion with some of them.”

    I think you can change the “some” to “most” in that sentence.

  4. Slarti:

    they seem pretty sure of their hypothesis.

    There must be some other reason they believe it. It is almost like believing the Moon is made of green cheese. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence pointing to airplane destruction. The shows I have seen about this on the discovery channel are similar, the thermiters are immune to anything that may challenge their belief.

    It seems to be on the level of a religion with some of them.

  5. Elaine,

    There are times that I wish I could leave the WTC thread myself… 😉 If I get around to visiting the Creation Museum, I will definitely provide a summary of the experience (I think I’d title it: ‘Fear and Loathing in the Creation Museum’).


    Honestly, if I’d known what I was getting into, I probably wouldn’t have made the offhand (but true) comments that got the whole thing started, but I’ve learned a lot in doing it. My understanding of the physics involved is much more robust and nuanced and I’ve learned many fascinating details. Also, even if his understanding of physics is incorrect (or at least incomplete), Bob’s rhetorical skills make debating him challenging (as Gyges said, even his absurdities sound good). In any case I don’t think that Bob or Robert realize how much easier it’s getting for me to refute their arguments because of my improving understanding of the situation and how little I have to refer back to what I previously wrote due to carefully qualifying most of what I said. I appreciate the help you’ve given in combating the misinformation and I’m sorry that our conversation about taxing pollution seems to have been permanently sidelined (it probably wouldn’t have gotten over 800 posts, though…). And who knows, I may eventually change one or both of their minds. 😉

    Always look on the bright side of life…


    If you’d read the books, you’d know that they have a gin and tonic (or jinin tonyx, or whatever…) everywhere. Mix yourself a pan-galactic gargle blaster, relax, and enjoy the fjords…

  6. Byron–

    I left that knock down drag out thread about the World Trade Towers a long time ago.



    If you do ever visit the Creation Museum, please provide us with a summary of what you saw there. I’m filled with sick fascination and curiosity about that place myself.

  7. Slarti:

    I have sort of been following the knock down drag out on the world trade centers. you must be a patient man.

  8. Buddha/Gyges/Byron,

    The McSorley’s Irish Black Lager sounds intriguing to me – I like lagers and dark beers but stouts tend to be thicker than I prefer. I’ll have to try it.


    I’ve considered going to the creation museum – I visit friends who live in Lexington from time to time (Mike S, there’s nothing wrong with Kentucky as a whole, just some of the people and while I generally avoid sweet drinks, I have to disagree with you about mint juleps) and the museum is nearby. I’ve seen pictures of the museum (exhibits with dinosaurs and humans living in peace, exhibits on the decadence of modern culture, a disturbingly full lobby, etc.) and have enough of a sick fascination with creationists that I’d like to see it for myself.

  9. Byron and BIL,

    I actually thought of it five years ago and have been waiting for a conversation to go from a major pedo-paleontological find to beer, specifically German beer. After that bringing in Belgium was child’s play.

  10. That is a fantastic joke. (Insert standing ovation here). Delivered with a most dry dexterity.

  11. Gyges:

    that was pure genius, my hats off to you. that has got to be the funniest thing I have read this year.

  12. Gyges:

    “Members of Belgium’s beer culture have never made a boot-print in Poland.”

    I set that up just for you. ROFLMAO 🙂

    Actually I didn’t but it worked out well in any event.

  13. Byron,

    Members of Belgium’s beer culture have never made a boot-print in Poland.

    That aside, from an outside perspective Germans seem to be more formal and scientific about their beer making, where as with Belgians, it’s more of an art form, with fewer well defined styles.

    Both cultures make fantastic beers, they just go about it differently.

  14. BIL,

    Really just the one that I know of, there may be more but Schwarzbeir is the only one that really caught on here. Germany in general has always had strict brewing laws though. The beer culture there is an interesting contrast to Belgium’s.

  15. Byron,

    Tried it straight and as a black & tan. It was good, but personally, I like a little more body to the stout component that I got with this mix. Either a Beamish or a Guinness would have been most excellent with the Pale Ale.


    I had no idea East Germany was so important in preserving the old techniques. That’s interesting.

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