The Virginia legislature passed a flurry of bills stripping away limitations on gun possession in the state. After intense lobbying from the National Rifle Association and over $1 million in NRA campaign contributions, the lawmakers passed 20 gun bills expanding possession and ownership rights in the state.
The bills include lifting the ban on buying more than one gun a month, allowing guns to be taken into bars and emergency shelters and allowing more people to get concealed handgun permits.
The timing of the passage of the laws is interesting with the arguments in the McDonald case only a couple weeks away. That case, to be argued during the first week of March, will determine whether the right of gun ownership, recognized in 2008, will be applied to the states as a fundamental right. That would mean that some restrictive laws could be found unconstitutional, including outright bans on handguns or concealed weapons.
For the story, click here.
Bob Esq:
I don’t love guns, I like to shoot and appreciate the workmanship in some of the nicer ones and think it fun to hit a small target at a couple of hundred yards.
Would you fight on the great plains with small arms? It would make for a good tank battle.
Isn’t a hunter hunting animals? Men have a choice where they fight. Everyone seems to neglect human volition when it comes to guns. As soon as one is in your hand you become a mind numbed robot under the control of that piece of steel in your hand. I don’t get it, how does a gun take control of your mind and cause you to become purely instinctual?
Actually I do like Bugs Bunny better than Daffy Duck. Daffy was used for effect I would not have wanted to insult Bugs as being lite reading. Bugs is an all time favorite.
Elaine M.: “I think in Afghanistan it’s not just about people there having guns and weapons–it’s about the terrain of the country. Put a bunch of warrior folks with guns on the Great Plains and they’d probably be much easier to conquer than the Afghans.”
That’s pretty much it in a nutshell.
Byron: “that assumes they would be willing to fight on that portion of land.”
I thought the hunter chooses the hunting ground.
Byron: “We gun lovers have read much more than Daffy Duck comic books and tend to like history, some of us even play war games (board games of course although I don’t) based on historical battles. And a good many of us have read Clausewitz, Sun Tzu and Thucydides.”
Simply because I appreciate guns it does not follow that I love them. Further, I’m more of a Bugs Bunny man myself.
Byron: “how about it is in the 2nd amendment for starters.”
How about it’s not been ‘incorporated’ as good against the states?
Byron: “Secondarily if what you say is true the Russians should have pacified Afghanistan in a couple of weeks and we as well. The Russians were there for about 10 years and we have been there for almost 9.”
Sad; isn’t it?
“The Minute Men days are long over and the ability of citizenry to overcome the government based on equality of weaponry has long gone. If in fact the central government wanted to slaughter citizens, your little handgun or store bought hunting rifle stands no chance against a M1-A3 MBT or Apache attack helicopter or anything else in the US military inventory. So either come up with a better excuse or shut the hell up.”
One shot. This is this.
KruglerHerrig-
“In what reality is it EVER a good idea to allow guns in a bar?”
It’s already real. For the third time, this law is not groundbreaking. People with concealed carry permits have been allowed in bars in many states for a long time, and disaster has not ensued. And I’d also add a reality where law abiding and sober people want to be able to defend themselves, both inside and outside of a bar.
MadMatt-
“Don’t let scary people take our penis substitutes…if they do we might turn gay…ick!”
This is pathetic and so cliche. Come on antis, come up with some better insults.
cecilia-
“This may come as a surprise to some gun lovers out there: I do not, repeat, do not want to own or carry a gun.”
And I know of no one who would force you to. Not even the NRA.
“But the NRA and the legislators they own seem to think that I should carry a gun”
No they don’t. They think that people who want to carry guns should be able to (assuming they meet typical qualifications).
“at least, that is their answer to every mass shooting: e.g., VTech — hey if the professors and students had all been carrying guns they’d a taken that guy out before he had a chance to kill so many. These “morans” have been watching too many Rambo/Charles Bronson type movies.”
There is nothing Rambo about that scenario. I can point you to a website that documents civilians defending themselves with guns, and it happens every day. Similar mass shootings have already been averted by armed intervention from a civilian. This isn’t theory, it’s real world stuff.
“So, great, because these gun lovers are stuck in some kooky adolescent male revenge/power fantasy”
So, great, because these gun haters are stuck in some irrational state of fear over inanimate objects…” Come on, let’s raise the discourse above this garbage. It’s lame, not funny, and most importantly, not true.
“I have to worry every time I go into a bar that some guy with an anger management issue is going to get drunk and shoot the place up.”
If you are worried about that, your fear is completely irrational.
“Guns and drunks — good times.”
Almost every state that allows carry in bars forbids the carrier from drinking.
“Ah, but never fear there will be some “hero” who pulls out his trusty six inches of hard metal and saves the day…too bad some people died before “hero” pulled his gun, hey, way more would a died…. Yeah, idiots, and maybe no one (that means zero, that means no widows no orphans, no one) would have died if guns weren’t allowed in bars in the first place.”
And you accuse us of coming up with fantasies. Again, reality has proven you wrong. This kind of nonsense has been brought up every time concealed carry comes up, any time loosening of restrictions come up, and every time, it fails to materialize.
“These people who think that everyone should be armed are barbarians”
They are also nonexistent.
“…why do we let them get away with it? The hardcore gun people are a political minority but they have clout far, far beyond their actual numbers. I’d like to amend the Constitution to make sure that I will never be forced to carry a gun!”
So I guess this was a troll and I fell for it. Otherwise, I’m forced to believe that you actually think that we think you should be forced to carry a gun.
wilson-
“I love this argument: “When a central government (ours) becomes totalitarian (absolute power over every aspect of our lives), gun ownership is essential to avoid large scale slaughter by ones own government.” A typical response from a gun loving nutjob who hasn’t a clue.
The Minute Men days are long over and the ability of citizenry to overcome the government based on equality of weaponry has long gone. If in fact the central government wanted to slaughter citizens, your little handgun or store bought hunting rifle stands no chance against a M1-A3 MBT or Apache attack helicopter or anything else in the US military inventory. So either come up with a better excuse or shut the hell up.”
You know what I love? Forum posters who, in their zeal to mash the “Enter” button, don’t bother to read the thread first. That way they don’t notice that their point has already been both made and refuted.
NRA membership is about one tenth of one percent of the U.S. population, yet they (NRA) supposedly represent the other 99.99% of the U.S. population.
Every time the NRA shows up in Washington, or State Capitols, the politicians bend over and spread them.
The issue isn’t whether to ban gun ownership outright versus mandating that everyone be allowed to own 155mm self-propelled artillery. The issue is what constitutes reasonable limits on gun ownership. Which of the following groups of people should have the right to bear arms:
1) persons currently in prison?
2) persons out on parole?
3) felons that have served their time?
4) street gang members?
5) former street gang members?
6) suspected terrorists?
7) average citizens without registration?
8) average citizens that have registered with the government?
9) citizens whose politics you agree with?
10) Government officials only?
Also bear in mind – the government can require the credit card companies to turn over their business records for review under the Patriot Act. Wouldn’t a simple review of credit card purchases (and hunting permit applications) wouldn’t ID most of the gun owners in this country?
Byron–
“The Russians were there for about 10 years and we have been there for almost 9.”
And think how long we were in Vietnam. It seems we haven’t learned from experience…or from reading history.
**********
“that assumes they would be willing to fight on that portion of land.”
Poland was an easy country to invade because of its topography. That was the point I was trying to make when I talked about the terrain in Afghanistan making military operations more difficult.
**********
BTW, I never suggested that gun lovers read no more than Daffy Duck comic books.
Speaking for myself–a non gun lover–my reading about war tends more to books like Slaughterhouse Five, Hiroshima, The Rape of Nanking, A Bridge Too Far–and The Guns of August. I’ll always remember those red pantaloons!
Elaine:
that assumes they would be willing to fight on that portion of land. We gun lovers have read much more than Daffy Duck comic books and tend to like history, some of us even play war games (board games of course although I don’t) based on historical battles. And a good many of us have read Clausewitz, Sun Tzu and Thucydides.
A weapon is nothing without human volition.
Byron–
I think in Afghanistan it’s not just about people there having guns and weapons–it’s about the terrain of the country. Put a bunch of warrior folks with guns on the Great Plains and they’d probably be much easier to conquer than the Afghans.
wILSON:
how about it is in the 2nd amendment for starters.
Secondarily if what you say is true the Russians should have pacified Afghanistan in a couple of weeks and we as well. The Russians were there for about 10 years and we have been there for almost 9.
I love this argument: “When a central government (ours) becomes totalitarian (absolute power over every aspect of our lives), gun ownership is essential to avoid large scale slaughter by ones own government.” A typical response from a gun loving nutjob who hasn’t a clue.
The Minute Men days are long over and the ability of citizenry to overcome the government based on equality of weaponry has long gone. If in fact the central government wanted to slaughter citizens, your little handgun or store bought hunting rifle stands no chance against a M1-A3 MBT or Apache attack helicopter or anything else in the US military inventory. So either come up with a better excuse or shut the hell up.
This may come as a surprise to some gun lovers out there: I do not, repeat, do not want to own or carry a gun. But the NRA and the legislators they own seem to think that I should carry a gun, at least, that is their answer to every mass shooting: e.g., VTech — hey if the professors and students had all been carrying guns they’d a taken that guy out before he had a chance to kill so many. These “morans” have been watching too many Rambo/Charles Bronson type movies. But I suppose if I am ever the victim of a crazed gun man in Virginia they will shed no tears for me because, after all, this is Virginia she could’a been carryin’ and if she’d a been carryin’ she’d a shot that bad guy and save everone….
So, great, because these gun lovers are stuck in some kooky adolescent male revenge/power fantasy I have to worry every time I go into a bar that some guy with an anger management issue is going to get drunk and shoot the place up. Guns and drunks — good times. Ah, but never fear there will be some “hero” who pulls out his trusty six inches of hard metal and saves the day…too bad some people died before “hero” pulled his gun, hey, way more would a died…. Yeah, idiots, and maybe no one (that means zero, that means no widows no orphans, no one) would have died if guns weren’t allowed in bars in the first place.
These people who think that everyone should be armed are barbarians…why do we let them get away with it? The hardcore gun people are a political minority but they have clout far, far beyond their actual numbers. I’d like to amend the Constitution to make sure that I will never be forced to carry a gun!
CAUTION: This video contains some foul language. If you don’t want to hear it, don’t play the video. The rest of you; ENJOY!
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOst7kC6q3A&hl=en_US&fs=1&]
God the VA senate must be full of the most limp-dicked, cowardly men on the planet. Don’t let scary people take our penis substitutes…if they do we might turn gay…ick!
Hopefully some drunk in a bar will take out several cops and politicians in the near future and we will be able to revisit this decision!
In what reality is it EVER a good idea to allow guns in a bar?
Speaking of background checks:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/crime/Ex-chief-pleads-guilty-to-illegally-selling-police-handgun-84596212.html
Did Virginia just step back in time to the middle ages? I thought only Texas or Florida would pull this kind of crap. A sad day in Virginia when the NRA has obviously purchased the entire legislature.
Byron: “Thank “God” that we have a Declaration of Independence to fall back on when people start asserting our freedom lies in our constitution.”
Don’t forget Hamilton’s Federalist 84 and Madison’s response; i.e. the Ninth Amendment.
Aside from that, nice ninth amendment smack-down!
Treat yourself to a cookie; you’ve earned it.
lol
VLF2112:
“First – god doesn’t give you your freedom, the Constitution does.”
And you wonder why we conservatives worry about guns. that statement pretty much sums up our fears about government and people who believe in big government. Do you understand what you are saying? The Constitution codifies our laws it does not give us our freedom. It is a system to protect us from force by others.
It is too bad that Jefferson did not say that our rights stem from our nature as rational beings. There would be no discussion as to where our liberty was vested. To assume our freedom comes from the constitution is to have no freedom at all. Any tinpot tyrant with a pen and a penchant for writing could make us slaves with the stroke of a pen.
Thank “God” that we have a Declaration of Independence to fall back on when people start asserting our freedom lies in our constitution. If we did not have the DOI we would long ago have lost our liberty.