Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has hired 200 people to help him tweet as part of his account “chavezcandanga,” which has more than 237,000 followers. He has much to tweet about as inflation has now reached 30 percent in the country, which Chavez blames on the “bourgeoisie.”
Chavez’s twitter account is now slightly larger than his rival Globovision, the only critical TV channel remaining in the country after Chavez’s crackdown on journalists and free speech.
For the twitter story, click here.
The 30.4 percent inflation rate is now the highest in Latin America and, in his signature style, Chavez is now blaming the hidden hand of the United States and the wealthy and punishing no punitive measures: “We need to stop this right now. The bourgeoisie do not listen to appeals to their conscience. Let’s act with a firm hand.” Totalitarian tweets in 140 characters or less.
For the full story, click here.
bUDDHA:
Well I think you may have a point, I do know for a fact that some of the very large home builders did indeed push their sales people to sell as many homes as possible without worrying about whether people could afford them. I was really pissed off about it because it hurt my business as well as many other small businesses involved in home building considerably.
But with that being said couldn’t you also make the case that people will most always act in their own self interest and since interest rates were artificially low (in my opinion based on government intervention) the compulsion by builders and individuals to make money was artificially pumped up? I personally thought that the no interest initially mortgages were immoral and that those mortgages would pray on the financially illiterate.
I have always blamed the housing bust on government, bankers, builders and to a lesser extent the people who actually bought the houses.
To the point of the study, I think (and I certainly may be wrong) that people that are engaged in high stress occupations or jobs that require a good deal of focus, in other words people who don’t have time to smell the flowers, may behave in a similar manor. It doesn’t necessarily flow from financial wealth. Although some of the new rich I have had the “pleasure” of meeting are insufferable “boars”.
And I have noticed as of late the trend of political fund raisers to target the rich and upper middle class with fund raising, i.e. 500-1000 dollar per person events. I could afford 50-100 bucks and wrote to the person about having a more affordable event so that more people could come and meet the candidate.
It isn’t fair but then life isn’t fair and that is the way I look at it. I think I understand human nature pretty well, that is why I want an unregulated market or at least one with minor regulations. People are for the most part decent but when something is unnaturally skewed people are going to take advantage of the opportunity, it is human nature. In my opinion government unnaturally skews the economy through regulations and taxes.
The moon stays in orbit around the earth because of gravity and inertia. I think the economy is like a natural system and should be left alone. Maybe my hypothesis is mistaken. Maybe some regulation is needed to set the moon back in orbit from time to time. I just don’t think people are smart enough yet to do that. The amount of knowledge required to regulate an economy is probably greater.
I also dont think companies should be above the law.
I should also add that the list above is merely a small sample of the bad things done in the name of profits.
Byron,
You mistake wanting the fundamentals required for civilization to survive with wanting to “take care of everybody”.
You also seem to think free markets will maintain those support structures (health care/energy/food & water safety, etc.) without being compelled to in the form of taxes. Re-read that Smith post mespo relayed. They will retain the profits whenever they can, damn the consequence. The over acquisitive are not prone to helping anyone but themselves unless compelled to.
“In fact, American corporate capitalism—the highly competitive economic system embraced by the United States as well as England, Australia and Canada—encourages materialism more than other forms of capitalism, according to a study by Hebrew University of Jerusalem psychologist Shalom Schwartz, PhD. He compared the values held by people in countries with more competitive forms of capitalism with the values of folks in countries that have a more cooperative style of capitalism, including Austria, Germany and Norway. These countries rely more on strategic cooperation among the various players in the economy and society to solve their economic problems, such as unemployment, labor and trade issues, rather than relying mostly on free-market competition as the United States does.
As expected, citizens who live in more competitive free market systems cared more about money, power and achievement than people who live under more cooperative systems. Research also supports the notion that the more people care about money and power, the less they care about community and relationships. A study by Kasser, University of Victoria psychologist Fred Grouzet, PhD, and colleagues, for example, asked students in 15 countries about the goals they value most, including community feeling, financial success and physical health. They found they could chart those values onto a kind of pie with some values—money versus community and relationships, for example—in direct competition with each other.
“Of course we can care about community and money,” Kasser. “But as money becomes important—the bigger its slice of the pie—the desire to help other people tends to become less important.”
University of Minnesota psychologist Katherine Vohs, PhD, demonstrated this idea in a series of studies in which she primed participants to think about having large amounts of money. Compared with a group of students who were primed to think about neutral concepts or insufficient funds, participants with wealth on their minds were less helpful at, for example, picking up spilled pencils, and were less generous, for instance, donating less to charity. These participants were also more insular, choosing to sit farther away from a colleague or work independently rather than in a team.
Money and community are inherently incompatible because they tap into two fundamentally different motivational systems, says Kasser. Helping the community and forming personal relationships satisfy intrinsic psychological needs while financial success satisfies extrinsic needs of rewards and praise.
And for those motivated by rewards, America’s corporate incentive system may even encourage unethical behavior, says Ryan. Investment banks, mortgage companies and other industries that fueled the economic downturn reward employees for specific outcomes—say, selling more mortgages or obtaining high quarterly profits—rather than other aspects of job performance. Research shows that the people who are offered these types of rewards take the shortest route to reach their goal, whether it’s ethical or not, Ryan says.
“Rather than rewarding good practices, we’ve been rewarding outcomes, however they’re attained,” says Ryan. “And that’s driven a lot of greedy behavior from folks who wouldn’t normally act that way.” from http://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/01/consumerism.aspx
You also seem to think that the private sector if free of regulation will not do more harm in making the money, e.g. their profits will dwarf the problem they created. History shows both of these to be incorrect assumptions about human psychology.
Three Mile Island
Love Canal
Open Pit Burning at Papoose and Groom Lake (a case the Prof. litigated)
The Benxihu (Honkeiko) Colliery
The Great Chicago Fire
The Bhopal Disaster in India
The Gulf Dead Zone caused by chemical runoff
The Texas City Disaster
The Plastic Island of the Pacific that’s twice the size of Texas
The West Virginia/Kentucky Coal Sludge Spill
Monsanto’s PCB Poisoning of Anniston Creek, AL
The Exxon Valdez
The BP/Halliburton/TransOcean Blowout
All of these related to unregulated and/or unenforced industries. Industries lacking regulation or oversight because they bought off the pols, wrote the laws themselves or flat our covered their crimes if they couldn’t dance around them with bribes and chicanery.
You may care about people, Byron. But you sure don’t understand them.
Buddha:
all of what you said above is caused by government regulations and rules. As you say maybe bad laws driven by vice but nonetheless a function of government.
To your other points, it is analogous to the man who bought what he thought was a thoroughbred racehorse and the first race the horse lost so he figured it was the jockey. He changed jockeys but the horse still lost. Then he thought it was the track and then it was the other horses crowding his. But the fact of the matter is the man was sold a nag that couldn’t run. But he couldn’t see it because he was so invested in that horse it just had to run, it couldn’t possibly be the horse.
You have biases as well.
You want people to be taken care of, then let free markets work and you will have all the money you need to take care of those in our society that are unable to help themselves. If you think I am immune to the sufferings of others or dont have empathy for my fellow man or dont wish to help others rise and be succesful you are clearly and absolutely mistaken.
And I certainly would not try to sell a man a nag that couldnt run for anything other than a childrens pet.
Greece. Poorly implemented socialism. Socialism is like any tool, including capitalism, can be improperly administered. Like the fascism and corporate welfare that passes for capitalism here is poorly administered capitalism. They wanted as many people on the public payroll as possible with maximum benefits possible calculated at the top of a bubble. A bubble by the way exacerbated by two factors: 1) Our cascading domestic bank crisis which affected them due to over investment is that made up crap Wall St. have been selling (ask the Chinese and other holders of that useless CDS paper how they feel about it). 2) Poor release control of the Euro causing value fluctuations. 3) Implementing direct employment by the state isn’t socialism. True socialism would have discrete segments that cover limited areas of the market (energy/health care/food and water safety) by means of stand alone public trusts that provide services for the good of all on a not for profit basis. Greece? They tried to end their unemployment problem by hiring directly and over promising on salaries and benefits based on money they thought they’d have in the future. Oops. That’s not socialism. That’s stupid.
Again, the problem isn’t the model. It’s the people implementing it.
You pointed to a situation where failure was caused by multiple factors and blamed it on one. Selection bias. You didn’t refute shit, Byron.
As for bdaman, he’s just doing what he does so well and merely trying to stoke flames without directly engaging.
I prefer stirring the pot 🙂
Instead of doing what justice demanded and leveling Saudi Arabia to the ground for attacking this country by proxy.
Kagan helped shield Saudis from 9/11 lawsuits
In May of 2009, Elena Kagan, as US solicitor general, filed papers with the US Supreme Court encouraging it not to listen to arguments in a lawsuit against the Saudi Arabian government. The suit was filed by thousands of family members and victims of the 9/11 terror attacks on the US.
The Supreme Court ultimately rejected the case.
“We were terribly disappointed with her ruling,” said Beverly Burnett, of Northfield, Minn., whose son, Tom, perished on United Flight 93 when it went down near Shanksville, Pa. “We had hoped she would be with us so that we could have our day in court.”
In court papers, they provided evidence that members of the Saudi royal family had channeled millions to al Qaeda prior to the bombings, often in contravention of direct guidance from the United States. But Kagan, acting as President Obama’s Solicitor General, argued that the case should not be heard even if evidence proved that the Saudis helped underwrite al Qaeda, because it would interfere with US foreign policy with the oil-rich nation, War on You reports.
Sen. Arlen Specter (D-PA) was extremely disappointed with Kagan’s actions. “She wants to coddle the Saudis,” he bluntly said.
http://kaganwatch.com/2010/05/11/kagan-helped-shield-saudis-from-911-lawsuits/
Buddha:
“he couldn’t refute that blended socialist economies can and do work without stifling either the free market segments or innovation.”
Greece. Refutation completed.
A rather lengthy display of pyrotechnic here, but much “sturm und drang” leading nowhere. This is not because Buddha has tried to actually sort out the arguments and define terms, but a factor of Byron, Joe and Bman muddying the waters. With false analogies and silly arguing points they attack and demolish a straw man, in a manner worthy of Rovian propaganda.
What the guys are missing is that they look at the world through
the glasses of people who can’t distinguish economics from politics from human behavior. Since they operate in theoretical universes, where everything is so clearly black and white, they are unable to see the silliness of their own positions.
Byron, you persist in extolling the “free market” which has been proven to you over and over again doesn’t exist. In fact the whole concept is a bastardization of Adam Smith. A large part of your problem is that you are enthralled by the romanticism of Ayn Rand, who made the concept entrepreneur seem sexy to those whose self interest overshadows their feeling of common humanity.
As Buddha pointed, your use of the Sanger analogy was not only irrelevant, but truly false reasoning. I’m sure you don’t want to take responsibility for the opinions of everyone who supports
the concept of a “free market.” Sadly, I think the truth is as Buddha states it, you did a nice sidestep to escape the label of trolldom, but in fact I think you just found a less grating way of stating the same old, same old. The use of the unidentified Swedish man is just downright silly. One man, of unknown qualities does not an argument make.
“The French aren’t the ones that are requiring me to pay more taxes for the rebuilding of New Orleans, that would be you and the Congress of the U.S. Progressing towards what?”
They would be progressing towards taking care of the health and welfare of American citizens. An ignoble idea only to those who
care only for their own creature comforts. As far as you definition of socialism goes, that too was a confabulation. The argument is not whether a country should live by the model socialism developed by Utopian dreamers as deluded by their visions as libertarians or pseudo-conservatives. Those are just the names used to anathematize by people who oppose any movement towards social justice and equality. Economic theories are poor models for governance of anything and yet there are some like you and Byron who conflate economics and politics in your own minds, showing the confusion that exists there.
As for bdaman, he’s just doing what he does so well and merely trying to stoke flames without directly engaging.
For the sake of clarity please try to get this right and as Buddha has pointed out, stop confusing economics with politics with human relations. We then might get interesting discussions rather than one person swatting boring gnats who think they have something to say.
Did somebody call me?
Say it three times. Please!
Between the corporations and the police we ordinary folk don’t stand much of a chance anymore. Individualism has been replaced by corporate identity. Debate and verbal opposition are met with police violence and war, all in the name of keeping the nation strong and safe. There’s a word for this kind of thing ……
Slarti,
This may have been before your time but I have stated that there are few things in this world which inspire actual hatred in me.
1) Fascists
2) Propagandists
Act like a fascist propagandist, get treated like a fascist propagandist.
As far as convincing Byron goes? At this point I could give a shit. That PP post was the final straw with me for him. He’s as disingenuous as his fallacious tactics. That was pure unadulterated distraction because like all the other unrestricted capitalism proponents he couldn’t refute that blended socialist economies can and do work without stifling either the free market segments or innovation. So what’s he do? He says they aren’t socialists in Sweden but remnants of Nazi fascism. Sound familiar? It’s the inverse of his “Nazis were socialists, not fascists” argument. Which was also total crap. Of course, this has nothing to do with his vested interest in the oil business, a business which should have been nationalized the instant Cheney was slapped in cuffs. It was the Secret Energy Task Force that gave the invasion order for Iraq after all. Then their toadies on the Hill sent our citizen soldiers off to an illegal war to die and kill for the very private profits of the Bush, Cheney and Faisal families. Instead of doing what justice demanded and leveling Saudi Arabia to the ground for attacking this country by proxy.
Our government is as big a joke as industry. Because industry has stolen our government from We the People. Industry run by people like Byron who think rules only apply to the little people and the corporations can do what they want and be free of the restraints of the law. Law, which by definition, separates civilization from anarchy.
You don’t like I came down on him hard? Fine. You’ve made your point. That being said, I’d do it again in a heartbeat. Greed is the enemy within. And Byron is nothing if not the poster child for greed apologists.
Fascist? You bet I think he’s a fascist. Based on his statements perpetually defending corporations like they were somehow enshrined in the Constitution to be above the law and have the same rights as natural people – something the Framers would have vomited over.
He can spew his venal self-rationalizing crap all he wants and you guys can play nice.
I won’t play nice with fascists or propagandists. Civilized is not what they deserve. Nor is it what they get from me.
It’s not in my nature to coddle enemies of peace, truth and justice.
I’m editing down my WTC response right now, which I will post some time later this week. Until then? I get a little puke taste in the back of my mouth with each of Byron’s self-serving posts so I’m taking some time off.
See ya’ll later.
Buddha,
I’ve got some words for you:
(For those of you who don’t recognize this quote, it is something that Buddha posted on the 9/11 thread which Bob, Robert and I richly deserved.)
This comment is mostly for you – while Byron has danced up to the line here (his post of comments by the founder of planned parenthood, for instance – Byron, you know that Buddha doesn’t believe in 99% of that crap and you should know that planned parenthood is an organization that’s done a lot of good over the years) you’ve been jumping over it with reckless abandon. Byron is not a fascist nor are his motives malevolent. He truly believes in what he’s saying and is mistaken in some of his reasoning. Your vitriol in attacking him has helped to create an environment where reasoned debate is lost in a flame war and where the quality of the arguments on either side becomes irrelevant. “Res ipsa loquitur” – if your ideas are better than Byron’s (and I think that they are), then prove it by convincing him that you are right – something that you will never do by calling him a fascist. I think that there are some very interesting ideas being thrown out here and it is a shame that you refuse to discuss them in a civilized manner.
Buddha:
your problem is you think people can write good laws, I think it is impossible. Everyone has an ax to grind, whether purely slefless or selfish.
But good luck in getting decent laws written.
Whatever, Propagandist Troll.
CFR – Again, you cannot distinguish between law as an optimal function under the Constitution versus the clusterfuck letting lobbyists write law created. Just like the Tax Code is a loophole system to allow the wealthy to avoid tax liability. Because of the money they spent on lobbyists and twisting the Code until it’s a complicated mess to bad even the head of the IRS admits he has someone else to do his taxes. Law works when you take the graft money out of the system. We don’t need more laws by volume, Byron. I’ve never said that. We need better laws. But since you’ve proven time and again you can’t distinguish good law from bad law you’d rather have no law at all. Financial anarchy anyone? Because that’s what’s for dinner.
Keep in mind that one is known by the company they keep. I’ll take my most reputable company over your admitted troll companion any day.
Any argument that we don’t have markets that are too free is belied by the CDS nonsense.
Any painting done? You’ve done yourself with your perpetual defense of corporatism and your love of false analogies and other logical errors. You’ll try to twist anything to show that making money is simply the best endeavor humans can engage in. Which is on its face nonsense.
Put on all the lipstick you want. Your porcine nature shines through.
Now, I’m going fishing. Because I can. And because your apologist prattle has begun to bore me.
Buddha:
I cant say I disagree with your assessment of rights and responsibilities. In fact I don’t think I have ever disagreed with any of that.
And I do keep all of my firearms taken apart with different parts in different parts of the house. Probably safer than locked up.
So if you are trying to say that I don’t believe in rights and responsibilities you would be wrong.
And I also think paying taxes are ok but not 50% that is theft and slavery. So you really don’t understand dick about what I believe or don’t believe, but keep painting away.
And as far as being backed up by your buddies? So what, it doesnt take any balls to be part of a crowd.
When you figure that out you will be a lot happier.
He just needs to get laid. That always puts a 🙂 on your face.
Buddha:
you have far more than I do of that I am sure. As far as responsibility goes, well I agree. I don’t have a right to pollute your nest and if I do I should be taken to court and made to pay cleanup costs.
We don’t have totally free markets currently and look how messed up everything is, what are you talking about? We have tons of regulations, the CFR isn’t getting smaller.
And we are going to go broke trying to pay for everything, just like Greece and the future of the other socialist countries of Europe. Hide your head in the sand, now that is a good strategy.
Go ahead and rant and rave about me being a fascist tool but the bottom line is neither socialism nor fascism work because they are at root basically the same. When you figure that out you will be a lot happier.
Yeah, Byron. Your assessment of what is and isn’t propaganda means as much to me (and careful readers of your convoluted self-justifying horseshit) as a fart in a hurricane. You be as wrong as you wish. It’s your right to be wrong. Go back to troll mode if you wish. We all saw how well that worked for you. You’ve been folded, spindled and mutilated by several other regulars before you ever made the mistake of taking me to task. Who has the most friendlies catching their back here? Hm? I seem to have a huge list that starts with mespo, taps Vince and Slarti in the middle and runs through to the Mikes.
Who have you got catching your back now? And for the last few months?
Badtroll – confessed troll and demonstrated bigot.
Hmm.
I’m thinking you’re way outgunned here since my cat could kick the crap out of bdaman in an argument whilst those who regularly support my positions is a roster filled with logicians and lawyers that argue with skill you cannot hope to match.
I’ve been anti-propagandist here from day one. There are plenty of regulars who will testify that is the fact. You on the other hand, choose to smear your sins on others, Karl. So why don’t you take your opinion of me out of bdatrolls mouth and play with it some more. Because from now on your opinion of me or what I do means exactly dick.
Rights come with responsibilities. No matter what your greed fueled delusions tell you.
Like the Right to Free Exercise means that you can have any religion you want but concurrently gives you the responsibility to respect the religious choices of others (not force yours on them).
Like the Right to Private Property is restricted by the responsibility to make sure your property does not harm others.
Like the Right to Vote confers the responsibility to vote.
Like the Right to Free Association confers the responsibility of being careful of whom you associated with lest you catch their fleas (Honest! I’m not a gang member! I just hang out with them!).
Like the Right to Bear Arms confers the responsibility to make sure they are secure and not misused for criminal purposes.
Like the Right to Free Speech confers the responsibility to not ferment a riot or incite sedition.
Like the Right to Habeas Corpus confers the responsibility to make sure that right is never screwed with by anyone.
Like the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment confers the responsibility to defend all from cruel and unusual punishment.
Your foundation is made of sand. Mine is made of stone.
Good luck trying to smear me as a propagandist, propagandist. Pot meet kettle. It’ll be funny to watch. Maybe not so funny for you because apparently you’ve forgotten what a bastard I can be, but the others will get a good laugh out of it.
Don’t contact me offline again. I hope that was stated clearly enough for you.
That goes for me too Byron, Mr. Fallacy, Mr. Came In Here As A Troll. Mr. Steals An Identity. Mr. The Nazis Were Socialists Not Fascists. Do You get the message Mr.engineer who doesn’t have a law degree. Mr. never represented a client in a court of law.
🙂