Former President George W. Bush proudly proclaimed this week “Yeah, we water-boarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed . . I’d do it again to save lives.” Fortunately, he will not be given another chance but, due to the actions of President Obama and Attorney General Holder to bar any investigation or prosecution of torture, future presidents may well indeed to do it again.
Bush’s remarks came at the Economic Club of Grand Rapids. These comments follow Vice President Dick Cheney and Karl Rove virtually bragging about torture during the Administration, here. This shameful moment belongs not to Bush but to Obama who worked to block the fulfillment of our domestic and international obligations to prosecute such offenses. We will continue to have torture discussed casually as just another tough-guy policy choice. Because it would have been politically unpopular to prosecute people for torture, the Obama Administration has allowed officials to downgrade torture from a war crime to a talking point.
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Defending the indefensible: a how-to guide
“story and”
Insomnia is hell on conjunctions.
I read this headline off of Google News and I got all excited.
Texas man charged with trying to help Al-Qaeda
Then I read the story are realized it wasn’t their recruiting tool in chief, W.
fwiw:
Turd Blossom is a Texas term for a flower that grows from a pile of cow dung.
Anonymous.
In response to your question about a humane method of getting information from these people, I suggest you do a little research on Michel Thomas, AKA The Language Master.
After fighting for the French Resistance in WW2 and shortly after D-Day, he offered is services to the allied intelligence corps who were having problems getting information from captured German officers. His success rate using nothing more than a room and 2 chairs was phenominal. He never layed a finger on any one of them – he just sat and talked with them.
Thomas later went on to achieve a certain amount of fame amongst post war Hollywood A-Listers, when it became fahionable to have second homes in Europe. He was teaching basic conversational languages in 2 week crash courses.
Prof. Turley, why not one word so far on Supremes’ having turned Miranda upside down this week???
Blouise,
You are really on track tonight. I have never forgiven Ford for pardoning Nixon. The only way the country could heal after Watergate was for all of the facts to come out and for Nixon to practice his Perp walk. I don’t know if that is why Obama is not going after the truth, but it was a bad precedent.
I’m going to repeat something I wrote a long time ago on another thread on this blog.
Ford was wrong when he pardoned Nixon under the guise that the country wouldn’t be able to handle another 4 years of trials, juries, and verdicts … that the country had to move on … that he, as President, had to tackle so many other things for the good of the nation.
He set a precedent that Obama has happily followed.
I know these leaders like to think that we are a nation of weaklings, unable to bear the burden of trials, testimonies, and secrets made public … that we lack the sophistication to understand the big picture or the strength to handle the backlash.
And I know why they think so poorly of us … after all, we were dumb enough to elect them!
When Bush was governor of Texas, he spoke of executions in the same nonchalant manner.
Blouise
I think there’s something to what you say. Just think of the impact of a former VP and President both charged with who knows what?
And even if it’s just what we think we already know, Congress can hardly get anything done already, let alone starting such a gut-wrenching series of special investigations, grand jury seating, indictments, and trial. The mind boggles at how many years and how much money would be involved.
It’s not like we haven’t enough problems to contend with without adding more right now. They aren’t going anywhere. I’m pretty sure there are people at DOJ that have been working on this for years already. I’d rather not see anything done than to not have an air-tight case presented with absolutely certain documentation.
Certainly I wouldn’t expect anything before the mid-term elections and maybe nothing until after the 2012 elections. If nothing is done then, the defendants will just keep piling up like cordwood.
Blouise, horrors we haven’t even heard of and that may well be going on as we type. How many people were just outright tortured to death , how many family members of the POW’s were rounded up and abused as leverage? You’re right, it could be anything that is being concealed.
Blouise,
You could be right! I hope not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some real bad “stuff” being hid from us.
Blouise I think you are correct in your thinking and I would also add that they are afraid of a partisan war which does not make any sense because they can’t manage to get more than three republican votes if that on anything.
Perhaps Obama and friends are not just ignoring the torture we know about but are instead, refusing to take the legal route for fear of making public horrors we have not even imagined … things that they think would stun the world’s population and destabilize our government.
I’m just sayin’ that it’s possible there is more to this than just keeping Bush and Cheney out of prison.
Shoot … I’m becoming a conspiracy theorist ….
Anonymous,
Torture is not only illegal, it does not produce credible intelligence. Can you understand that? However, even it did, it is Illegal! There is absolutely no evidence that torture worked for the Bush felons. They continue to herald the torture so that people become desensitized to the crime. If torture was so effective, point to one credible incident that was prevented by waterboarding one individual over 100 times in a month! Obama and Holder are trying to sweep the torture under the rug because it would create a political firestorm if the law was actually followed and Bush/Cheney et al were prosecuted.
Anon Nurse, I’m not saying torture is right, but then what is the effective and humane approach to gleaning valuable information in these cases? What would you personally do if you were interogating these suspects and your family’s life and/or other’s were on the line?
What has always struck me is how important the right to torture was to these people. They really, really liked it. And they built this huge program in which every single person they scooped up in their “illegal combatant” dragnet was routinely tortured. It’s not just criminal, it’s weird.
I’ve heard it opined that the size and scope of the “extaordinary rendition” (kidnapping) and torture regime was large enough and systematic enough to qualify not just as a set of war crimes but as a crime against humanity.
Not that it matters much.
And I agree totally with the assemssment of Obama,Holder et al. What a disappointment this administration has been in so many areas.
anonymous wrote: “Where we sit, we are far removed from the impact, so we see it as wrong. But is it???”
Yes. It’s wrong. It’s that simple.
Bush II did not do torture, he only waterboarded, while saying inter alia, “childrens do learn” …
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2623880720070926
Perhaps he did not understand the question, thinking the reporter asked “Did you like 5th grade?” …
Eric Holder an Obama are disaster when it comes to the rule of law…a pair of totally Jive Turkeys, I am so sick of them and their right wing corporate ass kissing!