There is a disturbing case out of Israel where an Israeli man of Arab origin has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with a woman after he allegedly told her he was Jewish and looking for a lasting relationship. Sabbar Kashur, 30, was sentenced to 18 months in prison by a Jerusalem court.
The woman says that the two met in downtown Jerusalem in September 2008 where Kashur, an Arab from East Jerusalem, introduced himself as a Jewish bachelor seeking a serious relationship. The two then had consensual sex in a nearby building. When she later found out that he was an Arab, she filed a criminal complaint of rape and indecent assault.
Kashur pleaded guilty to a charge of rape by deception. Judge Tzvi Segal (part of a three judge panel) acknowledged that this was not a “classical rape by force” but insisted that the woman clearly would not have had sex with an Arab. That seems true but that does not mean it is rape as opposed to a tort lawsuit. Pick up lines are notoriously embellished if not outright false. It is the danger that comes with one-night stands where the rule is caveat emptor, or “buyer beware.”
Notably, the panel insisted on jail time as a sentence when probation was possible. Segal added:
The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price – the sanctity of their bodies and souls. When the very basis of trust between human beings drops, especially when the matters at hand are so intimate, sensitive and fateful, the court is required to stand firmly at the side of the victims – actual and potential – to protect their wellbeing. Otherwise, they will be used, manipulated and misled, while paying only a tolerable and symbolic price.
That reads uncomfortably close to old miscegenation cases where judges sought to protect women from “smooth-taking” black men.
Even in cases where women have been falsely told that a lover does not carry an STD, the matter is addressed in the United States as a matter of civil not criminal battery. Does this mean that any false fact used in a one-night stand is now a criminal matter deserving of jail or it is only Arab status that gets that level of punishment? For example, if a Israeli man says he is unmarried and looking for a lasting relationship, can he be jailed? If so, the Israeli jail would be stuffed to over-capacity.
We have been following a crackdown on Israeli women dating Arab men recently.
Source: Guardian.
Byron–
My…you do have a kinky imagination for a conservative.
Please don’t tell me Coulter is your fantasy right-wing wanton woman? Or would it be, perchance, Michelle Malkin? Or maybe Laura Ingraham? Do tell. Inquiring minds want to know!
Elaine:
now that leads to a question, I wonder what her “pillow talk” would be?
no, no more to the right
squeal like a capitalist pig
talk derivatives to me
pete–
“wow, that’s just like some liberal socialist saying he a conservative to get some nookie from ann coulter.”
One would hope the fella would have a gag handy to keep the human giraffe from spouting her hateful right-wing rhetoric while he was getting “some nookie.”
😉
my how times have changed or have they?
She should follow the old advice:
“the farmer doesn’t buy the cow when he gets the milk for free”.
So this “cow” was stupid enough to give up the milk for free and then sues the farmer? Seems like she wants no responsibility for her actions and no consequence from that action. Which is probably a lowering of status among friends and family. Eerily reminiscent of the poor white girl in “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
Some things never change.
tomcj 1, July 21, 2010 at 10:55 pm
“A woman has consensual sex within minutes of meeting a man and then charges him with rape because something he told he was not true. Imagine.”
___________________________________
“If she hadn’t thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have co-operated,” the judges said in their ruling.”
(http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/07/201072191017847251.html)
~I think the judges got this right. It wasn’t consensual if she was operating under the influence of deceit.
“In this case, the ruling seems to say that if a ‘reasonable’ Jewish woman knew a man was an Arab, then she would not make love to him,” Abeer Baker, an attorney with Adalah, an organisation that advocates for Arab rights in Israel, said.” (http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/07/201072191017847251.html)
~I see the word ‘seems’ in there. (I don’t think this guy was looking for love….)
It looks to me like a lot of inflammatory conjecture regarding the whole Arab/Jewess thing….maybe she relied on the information and could not let it ‘lie’.
I don’t see the point in making an international incident of this. (I’m not a scholar in middle-east relations.)
As a woman, her existance is not wholly defined below the waist and she was misled. [An act of nooky war and her defensive weapon of choice was the court of law. Boo hoo on him. I’m with her….maybe she was Kosher and now she has to go spend precious time in the Mikveh…] Adherance to a cultural norm does not necessarily mean you harbor a negative predjudice…only a recognition of a difference that can be acknowledged in a respectful manner. Lies are innately disrespectful and used solely and intentionally as a tool of deception.
“I think Israel needs to actually admit that Israel can only survive if Arabs are deported. Otherwise the state of Israel will continually disgrace itself and leave only the woosty’s of this world to defend it. ”
~this sounds extraordinarily predjudiced to me. And I would disagree about the disgraced party….but you could stone her and thereby do away with any evidence of disrespect.
Since when can an American law professor comment on foreign jurisdictions and expect them to follow the tort standards of the US? Sounds like an imperialist claim to me.
“If a Israeli man says he is unmarried and looking for a lasting relationship, can he be jailed? If so, the Israeli jail would be stuffed to over-capacity.”
Where did this come from? Does Turley have statistics, or is he just trying to be funny? While he seems to be accusing Israel of being racist, I now see where the real racism lies.
Gee whiz, thanks guys. I really do appreciate the snark defending. Keeping things civil and real 🙂
I’m still w/the judges on this one though….fraud/rape whatever you call it is out of control and inflicted damage done and the cavalier attitudes people have regarding using those ‘lines’ are waaaaaay out of balance.
Most importantly tho; and can you tell me honestly,
Do I sound like a guy?
~:[ 3
Woost
Good points.
The whole thing is a big cringe but I wouldn’t go as far as calling it rape.
And I would say the same for a man who was deceived. He was foolish too.
Copy that, Gyges.
In addition, I’d like to point out to Tomcj four words in two groupings: “public forum” and “free speech”.
Had the Prof. intended this to be a private forum, WordPress provides that functionality.
Had this not been intended as a free speech zone, the Prof. wouldn’t have said on numerous occasions this is a free speech zone (excepting the civility rule).
Tom, if you don’t like the way things operate here, you are free to go start your own blog and run it how you like. Because there is one Prime Rule here as delineated by our own Vince Treacy: “The first rule is that JT makes the rules.”
Tomcj,
I couldn’t disagree with you more about Wootsy. Wootsy, does exactly what the rest of us do, engages in discussion. If there’s anyone here trying to impose their vision of what the Blog should be, it’s you.
pete,
That guy doesn’t have to lie he just has to be awake at closing time.
“Baby, I will make love to you all night long.”
Wow, if I went to jail every time I used that lie to get laid, I’d be serving a life sentence.
oh dear….my comment is all hung up in ‘moderation’ 🙁
this blog is filled with these guys who make it their own….
woosty’s still a cat is typical of people who spoil internet discussions. He blathers and dominates by posting as if he owned the blog, and is opinions are silly. A woman has consensual sex within minutes of meeting a man and then charges him with rape because something he told he was not true. Imagine.
Women are capable of making their own decisions or they are not. If women want to say that they cannot be held responsible for their actions then we should outlaw women having sex with anyone until the government can check out the person’s story and give the woman an “all clear”.
But this case is another case where Israel, in its proper worry about its enemies and ability to survive, imitates Nazi Germany, where Germans were routinely tried and found guilty of having sex with Jews. These laws were used specifically against Jewish Women especially. Israel is a great Democracy and a great Nation, but Israeli fear about survival is causing the Israeli’s to disintegrate.
I think Israel needs to actually admit that Israel can only survive if Arabs are deported. Otherwise the state of Israel will continually disgrace itself and leave only the woosty’s of this world to defend it. And we can all agree that woosty is another right wing bitter Rush-wannabe who onanistically spews his opinions as often as he can achieve what he thinks of as “thinking” but what is really exhibitionist tumescence.
wow, that’s just like some liberal socialist saying he a conservative to get some nookie from ann coulter
Wow
I never thought I was a prude but there ya go….
and this?….
“Even in cases where women have been falsely told that a lover does not carry an STD, the matter is addressed in the United States as a matter of civil not criminal battery. ”
because we are talking about bodily fluids in the age of AIDS and all and while I don’t advocate suing every bad score where does anyone else draw the line? Is it just because of the word ‘date’? What about a dentist with AIDS not disclosing?
I just don’t buy that easy sleezy excuse, that all men are pigs so wise up argument. I’ll bet if there were $$$$ involved and it wasn’t about sex that the band would be playing a different toon….
Wow! If a little white lie to get some nookie is to be called rape, then Israel better start building more jails.
Oh but wait, does anyone here beleive that a jewish man would have been charged with rape if he lies to an arab girl?
And to think we (our government) continues to support a government that continually uses its power to oppress arabs and Palestinians.
If this precedent holds, half the men in America would be guilty of rape as well as a comparable amount of women.
I couldn’t agree with you more seamus. Isreali society is really out of control. It’s not so much that if you’re a citizen but not a Jew you have “watered down rights” it’s that if you are an Arab-Israeli you are an object of fear and hatred and, as this case demonstrates, you have lost basic civil rights and protection by the rule of law.
There’s always been prejudice but now they are talking about making Arab citizens take loyalty oaths.
Maybe if they start treating non-ultra-orthodox Jews like second class citizens then the second-class Jews and the second-class Arabs will get together and there will be peace.