It appears Pat Robertson is not alone speaking for God in the use of nature to punish the sins of man. A Christian pastor in Queensland, Daniel Nalliah of Catch the Fire Ministries, has announced that the devastating floods in Australia are actually divine judgment against Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd because he “spoke against Israel” in December 2010.
Nalliah is upset because, while in Israel, Rudd insisted that the government should allow international inspectors into its nuclear facilities — a position consistent with demands made against Arab countries. He also called for a halt on new Jewish settlements.
God, according to Nalliah, decided to flood the country in response. Call me skeptical, but wouldn’t it have been easier for God to smite down Rudd or guarantee that England beats Australia in tomorrow’s cricket match?
Nalliah previously successfully defended himself against of charge of inciting hatred against Islam under Victoria’s then-new religious vilification laws. As a critic of those blasphemy laws, I am glad to see such acquittals even for irresponsible or obnoxious speech.
He also previously declared that the “Black Saturday bushfires” were revealed to him as divine punishment in”prophetic dreams” for Victoria’s decriminalization of abortion in 2008.
Tootie:
“Jews who don’t believe in Christ (now or in the future) will like gentiles who do not believe in Christ (now or in the future) be condemned to hell.”
******************
Quite the religion of love and peace — believe in me or suffer the unending torment of Hell!
Ever wonder about the egotism and downright emotional insecurity behind that tenet?
BIL,
QI is one of my favorite shows. It’s from the BBC and I think would easily find a home in syndication in the U.S., but I’ve read that there are licensing issues with the graphics they use in the show. If you can find it online, it’s well worth watching.
James,
That was an interesting clip from a show I didn’t even know existed. I’ll be seeking out QI on the net now.
And Stephen Fry for Pope!
gbk,
Have you seen the show “Caprica”?
One of the constant themes is conflict between the polytheists and the monotheists.
It got me wondering the other night – would the world be a better place if polytheism was the norm for religion?
In a way, polytheism by its very nature encourages acceptance of other beliefs where monotheism is by its very nature exclusionary.
Just food for thought.
Personally, I prefer a good philosophy.
That’s why me and Buddha get along well. He had good ideas that can be applied practically and I don’t have to get dressed up once a week to compare wardrobes with my neighbors to apply said ideas. Just work on making the world a better place for all – now. Not in some “afterlife”.
@ Tootie
Actually, it’s not.
I comment here very rarely because the quality of many comments here usurp anything I could add. To say that this blog is “particularly obsessed . . .” shows to me that you have not followed this blog over the years. Your further posts’ leads one to believe that you are a religious zealot.
@ Mike Spindell
Are they? They both adhere to the bloodline of Abraham, revere Moses and the “old” prophets–as does Islam. It is time for the monotheistic adherents (Judaic, Christian, and Islamic) to quit terrorizing the world with the split hairs of their evolving beliefs for political gain.
I, for one, am extremely impatient for the monotheistic madness to pass–these beliefs have controlled human destiny for too long and yet–paradoxically, counter to their teachings–have only magnified the differences between their mythology (theology is too great a word to grant) at the expense of all other humans who do not subscribe.
Essentially, both of you and all your ilk take your vaunted mythology and shove it. A very large proportion of the world’s wars and genocidal acts were–and are, still– justified by your obtuse delineations.
QI had a really interesting segment about a B.F. Skinner experiment I’d never heard of:
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy4iPVwjbGI&fs=1&hl=en_US]
Skinner’s paper is here: http://psychclassics.asu.edu/Skinner/Pigeon/
Mike Spindell (if you are still talking to me since I let you have it on another thread):
Jews who don’t believe in Christ (now or in the future) will like gentiles who do not believe in Christ (now or in the future) be condemned to hell.
If one wishes to buy that viewpoint, the punishment is meted out the same for the Jew as it is for the Gentile. So there is no unequal distribution of wrath to the Jew, so to speak, according to the New Testament.
“Conversion” is not a word I use. The word I use is “believe”. This belief is voluntary. It’s your choice.
As for you, should you be alive during the great tribulation (ending in Armageddon), you still have the chance to accept Christ. It is not yet finished. And you never know but that you might change your mind about things after witnessing what happens.
Just don’t take the mark of the beast. That condemns any Jew or Gentile and there is no turning back.
This is between you and God; not you and me. God has said (in the Old Testament) that Messiah will come: either he has or hasn’t. You decide. If you don’t believe my viewpoint, then you must believe it isn’t true and you have nothing to worry about. So you have nothing to be upset about either.
The Old Testament gave the exact time in years when the Messiah would arrive. Many missed it.
But the Wise Men knew it was happening because they did the math and suspected the prophecy might be true (they brought gifts just in case). 🙂
In the passage you quoted, you can see that one CAN indeed be a Jew and a Christian, but it is the only time in History (outside of when Christ walked the earth) that this is so. These people will be Jews. And they will be believers. Just like King David.
David practiced Jewish customs and laws AND looked forward to the Holy One of Israel and believed in Him. Same (and even more so) with Abraham. He didn’t have the Temple laws and worship. Yet, he looked forward to the Holy One of Israel and God saved him by faith (counted it as righteousness).
Many of the Jewish laws and customs were practiced to foretell the Holy One of Isael who would save His people. Once he arrived, theoretically, it would be unnecessary to continue them.
So, its not a conspiracy against the Jewish traditions, but a logical setting aside of that which is no longer needed because the goal has been accomplished.
Or so the Christians say.
Buddha,
I’m almost certain that the Book of Revelations was simply of the same tradition as Issiah. Everything is pretty nicely explained by saying “It’s about overthrowing Nero’s Rome.”
Mike S.,
“If, as also claimed that Jesus is a God of love, how then does one explain the end times prophecies of the Book of Revelations?”
You know the answer to that. John was insane. Crazy from the heat. And the Council of Nicaea argued quite a bit about including Revelations in the New Testament as it was so totally contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
But try telling a Fundie that!
I must admit that Tootie has a way of rattling my cage at times. I do bear resentment against Christians who just can’t seem to get that the bible is not history or prediction per se, but much more allegorical instruction for how humans can live their lives happily. However, in both the instances, that of the Torah and that of the Gospels, they were edited by many people with little understanding, axes to grind and large agenda’s to fulfill.
Anyone who believes for instance that God ordered the genocide at Jericho, or Abraham was really supposed to kill Isaac is lost in space. The Christian propaganda through the centuries has been to contrast “The Old Testament God” of anger, with the loving God Jesus brought into the picture. If there is indeed a God I’m certain that that entity would not be bloodthirsty, or if so suddenly change with the birth of a son and successor.
If, as also claimed that Jesus is a God of love, how then does one explain the end times prophecies of the Book of Revelations? I personally do believe that there is a creative force behind the Universe, but I’m not so full of myself, as many relgious figures are, to believe that I in any way can comprehend that force.
I believe Gyges that most of the prophets were revolutionary in their beliefs, but perforce needed to disguise their feelings because they would disturb the powers that be of their time. Jesus had the same problem and he too, if the Gospels are to be believed had to disguise his teaching in parables. The problem that fundamentalist Jews and Christians have is that they weren’t the first to try to improve humankind’s lot. Knowledge of the mythology of Sumer shows certain beliefs predate both religions by millenia.
Even what is called the “Golden Rule” in Christianity and Rabbi Hillel’s dictum in Judaism, was predated for centuries by first Confuscious and then The Buddha. Fundamentalists and religious fanatics of all stripes have one basic characteristic and that is that they don’t understand that there have been many prophets who have tried to reform the murderousness and venality of humankind, only to have their beliefs betrayed by those with no understanding.
This is too easy, so I’ll pass, but not before reminding Mike S. that there’s no point in his arguing the endtimes issue. It’s curtains for him and that’s that.
that’s why we are getting all these snowstorms because we have forsaken god and indulged in the sin of usuary.
shut down all the banks and the weather will return to normal.
and then send me money
Mike S.,
Come on MIke. Don’t you know that the end times will be a happy time, as long as you play ball!
Mike S,
If I remember correctly, there’s an ancient Hebrew literary tradition that’s essentially revolutionary language disguised by prophetic language, “The Book of Issiah” for example.
Do I remember correctly? My Asimov’s “Guide To the Bible” is currently buried.
Tootie,
Sorry for this second post but I omitted one salient detail. One cannot be both a believing Jew and a Christian. The two religious viewpoints are antithetical despite Paul having hijacked the Torah for his own delusions.
“Furthermore, Christians, we are told, are free from the law and no longer observe special days, special feasts, new moons and Sabbaths. In his letter to the Colossians the apostle Paul clearly speaks of the fact that the Sabbaths were included in those shadows which were done away in Christ. But here the Sabbath distinctly will be a restricting factor in the flight of these people. Here then will be a class of people who cannot be identified with the present day church They will be Jewish believers in Christ who will be converted after the removal of the church and before the time of the Great Tribulation.”
Tootie,
A passage from the link you posted. The projected Christian End Times does include Jews but specifies:
“They will be Jewish believers in Christ who will be converted after the removal of the church and before the time of the Great Tribulation.”
There lies the problem. What happens is that Jews convert or suffer damnation. What about Jews like me who reject Jesus as a savior?
It is funny to read about these so-called ministers who make God out to be this vindictive monster who only exists to smite the “enemy”. Of course, the enemy will vary by minister. Sometimes it is the Jews. Sometimes the Gay community and sometimes soldiers who die in combat.
Elaine,
Nah, in college I had to play God with some mold growing on something my room-mate left in the fridge, and created a little back story.
I use method acting.
Gyges,
So…you’re a believer?
Elaine,
Funny, I always pictured God as a Buddhist