The marriage vows may say “for better or for worse” and “in sickness and in health,” but Rev. Pat Robertson told his “700 Club” viewers that divorcing a spouse with Alzheimer’s is just fine. Robertson says that the vows say “until death do us part” and Alzheimer’s should be viewed as a type of death.
Robertson was asked on this television program for advice for a friend whose wife has started suffering from Alzheimer’s and has started to see another woman. Robertson responded “I know it sounds cruel, but if he’s going to do something, he should divorce her and start all over again, but make sure she has custodial care and somebody looking after her.”
When he was reminded of that vows concerning “for better or for worse” and “until death do us part,” Robertson explained “If you respect that vow, you say ’til death do us part.’ This is a kind of death.”
I have always been fascinating by these programs with Muslim or Jewish or Christian figures dispensing advise to the faithful. No one ever asks, “are you just making this stuff up as you go along?” This seems a pretty massive change in the plain meaning of those vows. I hate to lawyer the language, but what is the basis for this new interpretation that the term “death” extends beyond the obvious meaning of the end of life and can include constructive death. It brings a new meaning to the phrase “you are dead to me.”
Source: Yahoo
___
You know what LK….I really don’t expect you to do the right thing…If you do, I’ll be surprised….I have learned that most people don’t do the right thing….they do what is most convient….
Another thing LK,
I am still trying to figure out how I became a Republican because I am not in support of Obama….and because I don’t support Obama I am against Choice and because I am against Choice (which I am not) I don’t care about women….and then I am to be viewed with askance….So please…explain this if you can…You have dipped in the defense of SWM …now try to explain that…if you can….
I’ll repeat…I liked Huntsman…I have stated so….The Professor even stated that he liked Huntsman….read the thread….I got blasted because I supported Huntsman….So I am against Choice because the only one for choice at present is Obama….So I am indifferent to women…..that can be inferred as a misogynist….especially if you take the askance comment in the same breath….
You get on your bandwagon and beat the snare drum while I have been sounding the bass….I do not expect to be attacked….I was, I defended myself…where were you when I was getting bashed….Was that ok with you? Sounds like different standards for males and females….
Even when I was defending myself with SWM….she was attacked…I still defended her against the uncivil portion of the attack….You even commented…But did you come to my defense….HELL NO…
I don’t think you can or will admit that I was attacked….BTW…What you wrote above was so convoluted that I could not follow it without dissecting it…and I really have no intentions of doing that…
LK,
And how did I do that…I think her words speak for themselves….I take it you are reading what you want as well, English may be your first language apparently you comprehend what you wish……..I think you have failed to read what was stated….
How did I mistake being called a: 1) Republican; 2) Misogynist and 3) a person viewed with ASKANCE…..
So, exactly how did I (AY has) put words in her (your) mouth to take offense at completely out of proportion to what was written.
Please read what was written….I realize it is a stretch….but do so…
Darwin52, “You women..” Is that like ‘you black people’? Or, ‘you Jews’?
Got your number pal, try harder. Amateur.
Swarthmore mom: “I am only a convenient target for both of these guys’ anger.”
—-
English is my first language and I have a good grasp of it. I know what words mean and I know what context is. I was present on the thread that started this pissing contest and I re-read the postings of yours that started it. Repeatedly.
AY has put words in your mouth to take offense at completely out of proportion to what was written. Anon was grossly rude and has come to this thread now stating that the burden of feminism played out in society would cause him to look at males that divorce wives differently (more harshly) than females- brainwashed by societal misandry. As if we were all not endowed with some mechanisms that might moderate social conventions that were basically unfair. Like , I don’t know, intellect?
Would you like whine with that cheese sir?
You can add to that his pronouncement that feminism was spawned by a bunch of elitist, ivy tower, out-of-touch-women (as if a hand-full of authors were the driving force behind a nationwide movement that lasted 2+ generations) and I see someone that has in his own mind dismissed the movement and blames its fruit for his own chauvinism. Oh please.
You, Swarthmore mom., are correct; you are only a convenient target for both of these guys’.
Which says to me that any female on this blawg is. I suspect that you were the target of most convenience because you make very short postings and their exposure/push-back would be less. Fuck that. I don’t like the tone or manner of the discussion, it’s disingenuous and been taken to crudely sexist levels.
Frankly AY, I’m surprised at you. At one time, for some forgotten reason, (maybe you were between jobs?) you devoted a lot of time to this blawg and began to write long, well written- I mean WELL written, well analyzed arguments on a number of topics. I was amazed at the skill you brought to bear since you were of the short and humorous/snarky school of posting most often. Then it stopped. I revised my entire view of you as well as my respect level.
I am amazed that you would alter the words SM used to come up with a nexus for the vitriol you are now showing. Amazed. I suspect and hope something else is going on in your life that spurs this displaced hostility, it would validate my earlier opinion of you- everybody likes validation. 🙂 I’ve been wrong before though.
BTW, I’m actually following your request when you said you would go on doing what you do and I should go on with what I do- this is it. I’m calling you guys out for whatever is wrong with you and there is something wrong with you two. I am unhappy that it is infecting perfectly good threads that I might enjoy more if the contagion had not spread.
You can have whatever opinions you want, you can state them freely, but “at the length truth will out.”
++++++AY
“I look at it like…How dare I defend myself from a vicious statement….Then I get attacked for cross threading….Well certain buzz words pop up then I’ll respond…”
+++
There were no buzz words, you were taking cheap shouts via caroms in unrelated postings to other posters, I know it when I see it because I am a past master of the art- I gave it up though (on the advice of my mentor) because it’s cheap- that’s why they’re called “cheap shots”.
+++++Anon: (speak for themselves)
“But worse, feminist theory and feminist policies and active feminist misandry are now ensconced in US Law, and in administrative policies in schools, and widely throughout society.
That’s of course documented by FIRE and by many others.
——
“Where the “public face” of feminism went wrong was in the fact that the people out front were from the leisure or academic classes and so issued their pronouncements from their particular elite perspectives.”
That’s not the public face. That IS where feminist theories are formed.”
——
“And if you would think equal of the two couples, I apologize, because I think I’ve had so much misandry pumped into me by society, that I think I would think less of the man seeking the divorce than the woman. So that makes you by far the better person.”
——
also, regarding this:
“I was totally clueless you had a beef with swm. I have just witnessed swm over and over again making misandric statements and no one would call her on it.”
***
That sir, is a lie.
I find it most amusing that you women are the first to call out a male for saying something unkind to a female. When the shoes are reversed and the male is still attacked you stand together in furtherance of this injustice.
May I inquire as to why you have double standards? Is not the equality you seek for yourself to be shared? Or is it to be, once you obtain the equality you seek the annihilation of the male race?
You know, it feels pretty good to stand up for myself…I did not realize how much I was being pushed around by folks since 07’….I guess it time that my Opinion should weigh as equally as anyone else… Don’t you agree?
Thank you for assisting me in this remarkable achievement…I am not afraid of my shadow right now….
Again, SWM….No one was making you a target…..One, was only defending his right to his voice his opinion…And if you feel like a target….I am sorry that you had to attack me…..Although you may disagree…it is still my opinion and I like you are entitled to our own respective opinions……..
And if you can’t handle the truth as expressed in your own words….oh well…at least, I know…
SWM,
The only target is the “truth” which seems to escape some folks….
Today you said:
“Swarthmore mom
1, September 16, 2011 at 12:33 pm
The lack of honesty is nothing less than amazing. I need to move on and hope you anons can do the same both in your personal lives and on this blog.
Swarthmore mom
1, September 16, 2011 at 12:51 pm
I am only a convenient target for both of these guys’ anger.”
I am not angry…Just defending the right to not be made the aggressor…Nor to be called a liar…I believe that you stated to me that I was a Republican, that I did not care about women…and that I was to be viewed with askance…the only direct one was the askance remark….
I could not agree more that the lack of honesty is amazing is it not??????????
You had previously stated and I responded:
Swarthmore mom
1, September 8, 2011 at 11:04 am
AY, Keep searching for your “good” republican to replace “bad” Obama. Suppose you think Kagan and Sotomayor are worse than Alito and Roberts, too. Obviously women’s issues are of no concern.
Anonymously Yours
1, September 8, 2011 at 11:42 am
“Swarthmore mom
1, September 8, 2011 at 11:04 am
AY, Keep searching for your “good” republican to replace “bad” Obama. Suppose you think Kagan and Sotomayor are worse than Alito and Roberts, too. Obviously women’s issues are of no concern.”
Just like jacking me and stating that I am a republican….I have no opinion on Kagen or Sotomayor….So far they have not made any bonehead or egregious decisions….But that is just me….
So as far as the statement you made: “Obviously women’s issues are of no concern.” It does not compute…people can disagree and still maintain a civil conversation….don’t you think…To disagree with someone does not mean that personal attacks are warranted….don’t you agree?
As far as Good Republican, Good Democrat…..I as well as a number of folks are hoping someone good will be elected….it is pretty damn sad when you are not voting for someone, but against someone else…..a very sad state of affairs…you do agree?
Swarthmore mom
1, September 8, 2011 at 11:57 am
AY Thought maybe you were a republican since you said you were a McCain supporter but did not say you were one.
Anonymously Yours
1, September 8, 2011 at 12:16 pm
And I too voted for Kerry…and I was in one of the few states that Kerry carried….Does that mean that I am a Democrat on that day….
When people disagree they actually disagree…when subterfuge is disguised as disagreement, then it is no longer a different of opinion….it is an attack….
Read my Lips, famous words, I am Independent regardless of the mainstream logic or what may appear illogical to you……..there are many folks on here that are Independent…..Yes…independent…and if they offer an opinion different than yours, you seem to take it as a personal attack…
As far as Ann Richards…not Anne Richards btw….I suppose familiarity breads contempt… I knew her before she became power stricken……Ronnie Earle is an ass…but he did the right things….Robert aka Bob Bullock was a jackass as well….but not to be confused with the porn star….
Swarthmore mom
1, September 8, 2011 at 12:41 pm
AY I never claimed I was personally attacked and don’t care if I am. Can’t afford to be that thin skinned. I don’t take these discussions that personally but I do take look askance at those that do not consider womens rights when evaluating a candidate.
Swarthmore mom
1, September 8, 2011 at 1:13 pm
AY, That is right. Try to make me a villain because I disagree with you on so many aspects of life. I do look distrustfully at those that do not consider women’s rights when discussing human rights. It has absolutely nothing to do with me personally. It has to do with lack of consideration for women in general. …
Anonymously Yours
1, September 8, 2011 at 1:28 pm
Swarthmore mom
1, September 8, 2011 at 1:13 pm
AY, That is right. Try to make me a villain because I disagree with you on so many aspects of life. I do look distrustfully at those that do not consider women’s rights when discussing human rights. It has absolutely nothing to do with me personally. It has to do with lack of consideration for women in general. …
First, I did not make you out to be a villain….I am unsure what you are saying with the remaining portion of your statement….
I will state this though, “Lack of consideration” for women, men or children is just plain rude. I did not think you were one to propound in the ideal of of southern chivalry…
Swarthmore mom
1, September 8, 2011 at 4:33 pm
Did not use the word askance to deceive. It was direct.
Anonymously Yours
1, September 8, 2011 at 5:41 pm
No SWM,
Being dismissive about someone else viewpoint besides your own was your target and you made it personal. Reread what you posted, if you care to differ with what is stated right here, right now.
Anonymously Yours
1, September 8, 2011 at 6:01 pm
correction:
Being intellectually dishonest are we? You “KNEW” damn well it was personal. Your “YOU’RE as bad as Republicans that say we won’t raise taxes and then turn around and pass a use fee…just figuring a different way to make your point and balance the budget….
Anonymously Yours
1, September 8, 2011 at 7:40 pm
Stating your opinion and attacking me are two separate things…Other people attacking you is beyond my control. If you will note, when your were attacked in an uncivil manner, I did defend the uncivil portion. The rest, your posts speaks for themselves…I can assure you and people who have access can also confirm I did not post under any other names today, not that I have not in the past.
If you disagree with the professor then say so…Please don’t attack me for the professors view points. I am not a Ron Paul fan, but he does have some good ideals…State your opinion, be original….Don’t attack someone just because they disagree with what you hold near and dear….That sounds too much like a Teabagger…which I do not think you are….Abortion is a state issue…the Feds set the floor and the states sets the ceilings….This is a local issue as far as the Feds are concerned…Now they can limit federal funding for that, which is true…Your beef is with the state you live in..not me…
Now, I am still waiting for you to explain to me why you said these: 1) Republican; 2) Misogynist and 3) a person viewed with ASKANCE…..this is subterfuged dialogue…just like a troll…
I am only a convenient target for both of these guys’ anger.
The lack of honesty is nothing less than amazing. I need to move on and hope you anons can do the same both in your personal lives and on this blog.
I can’t stand Pat Robertson.
That said, I think in this case he is right. Divorce does not necessarily mean abandonment.
Why should straight spouses of Alzheimer patients have less rights the gay people? Why should they be denied hospital visits, blah blah blah (all the usual gay marriage talking points) when it comes to their “real” partners? I see this as more of a legal issue than a religious one.
Add abandonment to the mix and I have a different opinion. It might be the smart thing to do, but not the right thing.
“The laws are pernicious, and intentionally designed that way. There is nothing benign about them. ”
Anon,
You really must read closer. That was exactly why I brought up the “bussing” issue. I get that about laws. As it is most of my comments are far too long and so I hope that people who have read them through the years place them in the general context of what I write about and the opinions they are based on. I would need a tome to explain all the details of analysis that go into most of my comments and that would be inappropriate in this venue.
“Letting swm spout her crap and saying nothing is made worse by your RL acts and reputation — because it says you are okay with her bullshit.”
First of all I haven’t noticed a pattern of misandry in Swm’s many comments, but perhaps I’ve just missed it because other things got my attention. I spend 3 hours at least every day here and I’ve got a busy life beyond this blog, so I reserve my commentary for those things that most pique my interest. Were I to feel the necessity to comment on all that goes on here then it would be more than a full time job, it would be my life and I’ve got too many other things going for me. Besides, I access this site via computer, not I Phone or Blackberry. I’m also a very slow typist, who thinks about what he writes and so I lack the ability to comment on everything. To call me out on my lack of commentary on a specific issue, or person, is really a cheap shot and and a denigration of my integrity because I don’t view things through your context and vision.
To give you an example of what you do you might accuse me of racism because I used the term denigration because of its roots in racism.
anon
1, September 16, 2011 at 11:46 am
As to other parts of the post, it is noted….
Now as to myself….
“AY,
While I am happy to support you, my beef with swm was derived differently. Agreeing with Mike I think, I was totally clueless you had a beef with swm. I have just witnessed swm over and over again making misandric statements and no one would call her on it. I have from time to time.”
I guess so long as I was not the object of the attack…I did not look too closely…Not that I am the Victim….of falsehoods…I am angry….Not with WOMEN….but SWM….for implying that I am Republican….Just because I don’t like what has happened under the OBAMA administration…Which I think is the pulse of America….I would like for someone else to be president….Because I said that, it makes me a Republican….then somehow or another because it was stated that I am a Republican….then I hate women…..then because I responded to that…..I must be viewed with askance….All while asking SWM off of the Blawg to not personally attack me….This is what I got…Maybe she is not a man hater….she just hates you and me….
I look at it like…How dare I defend myself from a vicious statement….Then I get attacked for cross threading….Well certain buzz words pop up then I’ll respond…
I did a portion in a Masters Degree with “Control Question” Management in Surveying…
“Regarding mespo, in a recent thread, mespo made a pretty old, dull, “liberal meme joke” on Bachmann’s husband Marcus, calling him fat and gay:
“Apologies in advance but, query: Will continued public dancing with an obviously gay Porky Pig lead to retardation?””
Now, if a conservative said anything like this, mespo would be the first to call him out as a homophobe, but mespo and so many others here hide behind the “we’re liberals, we can’t be bigots”. At the same time, mespo is calling out Pat Robertson for his idiocy.”
Anon,
Here is your problem in black and white, you excise context. Mespo’s joke was certainly appropriate in the context of criticizing a man running a facility to help “cure” homosexuality. It is an ironic comment. If you are saying that in an ironic context jokes like that are impermissible then you are guilty of the thinking you so criticize in others.
As far as “if a conservative said” that is also out of context since most, though not all, of the prominent conservative voices are distinctly anti
homosexual. Stop being what you complain others of being and please do give context a chance in your reading.
Mike,
If I understand your last comment, I think some of my disagreement revolves around this:
” despite some laws designed to make people feel better without upsetting the oppressive “applecart”.”
This statement makes me think of laws that are useless but benign.
The laws are not to designed to make people feel better without upsetting the oppressive applecart.
The laws are pernicious, and intentionally designed that way. There is nothing benign about them. And it’s not just laws, it’s school policies regarding speech, regarding sexual harassment investigations. It’s employment practices.
Read Christina Hoff Sommers on Catherine MacKinnon’s legacy. Read FIRE.
Elsewhere,
There are many ways to point out what an asshole Pat Robertson is. A weak way of pointing that out is by using a clip of him making a statement that most of us would agree with if spoken by anyone else, unless you make it clear your beef is not with what he said, but with his hypocrisy.
And if you would think equal of the two couples, I apologize, because I think I’ve had so much misandry pumped into me by society, that I think I would think less of the man seeking the divorce than the woman. So that makes you by far the better person.
I am glad to hear of all your wonderful activism.
Regardless, if on these boards you are part of a community that overlooks mespo’s bullshit or swm’s bullshit, I don’t think your RL activism as remarkable and as wonderful and as far more important as it is, really gets you a pass.
Letting swm spout her crap and saying nothing is made worse by your RL acts and reputation — because it says you are okay with her bullshit.
AY,
While I am happy to support you, my beef with swm was derived differently. Agreeing with Mike I think, I was totally clueless you had a beef with swm. I have just witnessed swm over and over again making misandric statements and no one would call her on it. I have from time to time.
Regarding mespo, in a recent thread, mespo made a pretty old, dull, “liberal meme joke” on Bachmann’s husband Marcus, calling him fat and gay:
“Apologies in advance but, query: Will continued public dancing with an obviously gay Porky Pig lead to retardation?””
Now, if a conservative said anything like this, mespo would be the first to call him out as a homophobe, but mespo and so many others here hide behind the “we’re liberals, we can’t be bigots”. At the same time, mespo is calling out Pat Robertson for his idiocy.
Is mespo a homophobe?
I am bored and disgusted with so many really stupid and arrogant and often offensive arguments and comments that are made by self-identified progressive and holier than thou commenters. n years of the net have driven much of the snark from me, since 99.999% of it is tired, old, stolen material that is used not to further an argument but to beat people up and to police speech and to bully.
And a lot of that I do think has led to a lessening in dialogue with people that I disagree with, but who I am often surprised and pleased to find have much to teach me.
I admire Professor Turley greatly, and I find what he blogs about interesting and often important. And yet, I am appalled at the arrogance, the assumed, elitist, self-congratulatory, taken for granted arrogance of so many of the commenters here, especially when their arguments are often so poor.
I prefer arguments that fit the Monty Python ideal. It’s a shame how far below a 40 year old comedy sketch we are.
Mike S.,
Thanks….
AY,
I’ve got to say that I’ve really been unaware of your dispute with SwM. That doesn’t mean it is non-existent, just that I didn’t know that the interchanges were wide ranging and/or discovered a pattern in my mind. We may not always agree is true, but I respect your point of view. I thought a lot of Ann Richards, but I’m not a Texan and only knew her from TV. I’m perfectly willing to accept your opinion of her from your personal experience. I don’t think I would personally like many Pols if I met them up close, or socially, which is one of the reasons i’ve stayed away from politics since my early dabbling. Others may not agree with you, so what?
I know from your history here that you are perfectly capable of taking care of yourself and in any event I respect the integrity of your opinions, even if I always don’t agree with them.
Strange you can recall someone saying something about men hating but can’t recall a damn thing about someone calling someone a woman hater…Thanks so much…reality is an illusive concept from individual perspectives…