There is an interesting controversy in Fort Worth, Texas where Dakota Ary, an honors student was suspended for turning to another student in his German class and saying that he viewed homosexuality as wrong. The teacher at Western Hills High School became angry in overhearing the comment and accused Ary of being a bully.
After Ary was sent home and given a suspension, the family retained an attorney and the school district backed down from the punishment.
The exchange occurred when there was a question about the translation of homosexual terms in a discussion of the German words for the vocabulary for Christianity and the Bible. As society recognizes needed protections for sexual preference, it will inevitably deal with such conflicts. If, for example, a student had said something like this comment about race, there would not be such controversy over the punishment. Yet, homosexuality remains a moral as well as a legal controversy. To say that you believe homosexuality is wrong does not mean that you are threatening gay students.
I understand the concern of the teacher, but this sounds like a circumstance where a correction comment from the teacher would have sufficed — particularly in refocusing the class on language rather than morality. I have long believed in letting high school students talk through such divisive issues when they come up in a relevant class (not German class) while being guided by a teacher. These are kids who will soon be voting adults. I would prefer to guide a civil discourse than punish such expressions. In this case, it was not relevant to the class, but the reaction was out of proportion and unnecessary. I think a discussion on relevancy and civility would have done more for the class than the controversy.
Source: CBS
For tea baggers, I saw a number of the demonstrators wearing hats with tea bags hanging off of them. Thus the term is YOURS. Don’t like it don’t wear hats with tea bags.
I wonder what would have happened to Gov. Dean if he had said he hated Republicans in a school. My brother had an exchange student from Morroco for a year, and he said in school that he hated Jews. He got tossed for that remark, and my brother had to do some explaining to get Ibrahim back into school.
Students have a right to express their likes, hatreds, views, and offend others. That is the essence of free speech, the freedom to offend others. It is absurd for any government entity to enforce rules to prohibit people from offending others since virtually any opinion is sure to offend somebody. It is the job of the school to teach students how to accept conflict without becoming violent, not how to not offend anybody. I remember a law suit some scabs at United filed against ALPA to force ALPA members to LIKE them since no union member would speak to them apart from absolutely necessary communication. Think that is where we need to go? The students should learn that simple speech and name calling is part of life and those who do that have as much right to their likes and dislikes as all others.
I have to laugh at the fact that this came up in German class since I took German in school and it never came up. The German slang for homosexuals is sort of cute, it is warmer Bruder, literally warm brother. Rather accurate I would think, rather than offensive. Sort of like the Spanish term, which is mariposa, butterfly.
“Swarthmore mom
1, September 23, 2011 at 12:33 pm
http://www.dallasvoice.com/watch-fort-worth-high-school-student-suspended-homosexuality-wrong-1090011.html He said, “no gays allowed in christianity”. Seems inflammatory to me.”
Did you even watch that report?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/09/22/texas-school-punishes-boy-for-opposing-homosexuality/
I am beginning to think it is exactly as described and the teacher grossly over reacted. He obviously has an agenda regarding homosexuality being accepted. According to the article he often discusses homosexuality including posting images.
While this would make sense in a social studies class, it does not make educational sense in a German language class.
One also has to consider the bullying of gay students that goes on in Fort Worth.
I was ready to attack the teacher and school until I read your comment, Nal.
You make a good point. There is a decent chance that there was more to it than the bare info here. To form an opinion not only would we need to know exactly what was said, but we would also need to know the way it was said. As example, was it said “conversationally” but in such a loud manner that he was trying to embarrass or harass a gay student (or one suspected of being gay) ?
Also I would imagine that the school couldn’t publish their side of the story due to privacy laws.
It very well could be exactly as described. It could be that the teacher over reacted. I would guess that is the case, but it is certainly possible that there is more to this story.
http://www.dallasvoice.com/watch-fort-worth-high-school-student-suspended-homosexuality-wrong-1090011.html He said, “no gays allowed in christianity”. Seems inflammatory to me.
I wonder if there’s more to this than a student saying that he “viewed homosexuality as wrong.” I’d like to see a verbatim transcript of the actual conversation.
Gene, you sound precisely like any other bigot trying to lump a group of people into one inaccurate description to justify your hatred and the use of clearly and intentionally pejorative terms.
“What angers me is that this is clearly a First Amendment violation done with the best intentions, but with faulty premises. It gives fodder to the Fundamentalists, Tea Baggers and to the “haters” of society, who are given one more little anecdote about the excesses of “Liberalism”.”
I disagree with 94.8% of their agenda, but I don’t think it’s fair to call these groups “haters of society”. And I don’t know what’s to be gained by that either — you’re sure not going to convince anyone that is sympathetic to those groups. And of course, when they call liberals traitors and communists and pinkos and … what does that do to the discourse?
But my main point is that this is not an isolated incident. Schools are routinely asked to implement zero tolerance policies for all sorts of things, including bullying, including hate speech.
And those demands for zero tolerance come from stupid liberals and stupid conservatives.
But often it comes from liberals and is enforced by putative liberal administrators, and defended by putative liberal academics. FIRE and the ACLU has certainly documented that. (Start with the water buffalo incident and go from there.)
And mistaking ugly speech for hate speech for threats of bullying for violence is a common abuse of policy and law today. Most of which doesn’t appear to protect anyone, but does make it easier for authoritarians in power to more easily punish and control. (It certainly pervades family law and is frequently used as a way around those ugly equal protection and ugly due process and other stupid clauses.)
At what point does valueless “fodder” that feeds dismissible conservative complains turn into valuable anecdotes that liberals and iconoclasts are right to be concerned about?
I think the problem Mike is that if you turned over the rock, you and others here would find that many conservative complaints about liberals and iconoclasts hating society have a solid foundation to them and strike uncomfortably close to home. And that problem won’t stop until we can start acknowledging it.
In re: Tea Baggers
They picked the name. That they then wanted to change their branding after someone pointed out what they had done (i.e. The Koch Bros. and Dick Armey started footing the bill)? Is their problem. Not only that? It’s ironically funny that the alleged “Rage Against the Machine” Party has been tea bagged by corporate interests into promoting agendas against their own interests but very profitable to the corporatists. If the tea baggers have a problem being called tea baggers as a term of mockery and derision? Perhaps they should quit acting like simpleton anti-government pro-corporate pawns.
“tea baggers” ? now who is a hater of society?
Correct me if I am wrong, but “Tea Bagger” is a term used to disparage people and is commonly used by some of the “haters of society.”
What angers me is that this is clearly a First Amendment violation done with the best intentions, but with faulty premises. It gives fodder to the Fundamentalists, Tea Baggers and to the “haters” of society, who are given one more little anecdote about the excesses of “Liberalism”. In this case, based on the facts presented, the no-nothings would be correct. As other have rightly said schools should intervene against the bullies among their student body (and teachers too), but allow students to express their opinions if they are not directed at disparaging anyone.
I am in the mespo camp….
Roco, You will probably be shocked to hear that I agree with you.
Suing may be a little too much in this case but I guess it comes down to if the student was harmed by his punishment.
The teacher could have looked on this as a way to teach the kids about diversity. That it is ok to believe another is wrong but how you act toward them is accountable.
Roco, You said “On the other hand, I would explain to my child people have a right to behave in accordance with their conscience and being.” I agree wholeheartedly. I wish more people would talk to their children not only about what is right or wrong in their philosophy but also how to treat other people with different philosophies.
It’s so often “all” or “nothing” when it comes to schools, isn’t it? Some schools won’t allow teachers to STOP gays from being bullied, and here you can’t even say you don’t like it without getting reamed.
I am not defending the over-reaction of the suspension, but I do want to defend the teacher. As with any profession, those on the outside looking in rarely understand the pressures placed on the rank and file by upper levels of bureaucracy. These pressures are most often put in place to avoid litigation. When it comes to bullying, many schools have very strict zero-tolerance policies in place.
In this case I would not be surprised if this teacher had been subjected to countless hours of staff meetings and seminars emphasizing the mandate to report anything that could be construed as bullying. That means teachers often err on the side of caution for their job’s sakes.
It is the administration who has to make the call in giving punishment. Blame the school principal if you will, but remember too that the principal is in the same subordinate position to upper management and a recipient of the same type of pressure from the super and/or board.
It’s a clear First Amendment violation by a state actor. Everyone has the right to say stupid things. Some around here say I do that as a matter of course. 😀
I’m inclined to agree. School is supposed to be a place for the free expression of ideas. If it denies students who have been taught (usually by the religion in which they have been brought up) that homosexuality is wrong the freedom to say so, it infringes on their rights and stifles the opportunity for the opposite opinion to be expressed as well. This is different from bullying.
Bullying behavior, as opposed to mere expression of an opinion, should not be tolerated in the schools. But if all expression of the opinion “homosexuality is wrong” is automatically labeled “bullying,” eventually the day may come when a student (and his/her parents) accused of such “bullying” sues a school district and wins. If that happens, it will make things worse for gay students, because it will make school districts in future loath to define real harassment of gay students as “bullying,” lest they end up in the same situation.
Better that schools should show sense off the top by establishing that there’s a clear line of demarcation between saying you think being gay is wrong and actually harassing or bullying others because they’re gay or you think they’re gay. The former is permissible; the latter is unacceptable. In short, students can think whatever they want (and they cannot expect to be protected from hearing dissenting opinions), but they can’t use those beliefs as a justification for hurting or bothering others.
If I were the parent of that child, I would sue the school system and the teacher. It is the child’s opinion, he isnt involved in making laws forcing his views on other people. The teacher is forcing his opinion on the child.
If I want to say that I think something is wrong why should I be formally punished for my opinion?
On the other hand, I would explain to my child people have a right to behave in accordance with their conscience and being. [assuming of course it doesnt infringe on someone else’s rights]