There is an interesting controversy in Fort Worth, Texas where Dakota Ary, an honors student was suspended for turning to another student in his German class and saying that he viewed homosexuality as wrong. The teacher at Western Hills High School became angry in overhearing the comment and accused Ary of being a bully.
After Ary was sent home and given a suspension, the family retained an attorney and the school district backed down from the punishment.
The exchange occurred when there was a question about the translation of homosexual terms in a discussion of the German words for the vocabulary for Christianity and the Bible. As society recognizes needed protections for sexual preference, it will inevitably deal with such conflicts. If, for example, a student had said something like this comment about race, there would not be such controversy over the punishment. Yet, homosexuality remains a moral as well as a legal controversy. To say that you believe homosexuality is wrong does not mean that you are threatening gay students.
I understand the concern of the teacher, but this sounds like a circumstance where a correction comment from the teacher would have sufficed — particularly in refocusing the class on language rather than morality. I have long believed in letting high school students talk through such divisive issues when they come up in a relevant class (not German class) while being guided by a teacher. These are kids who will soon be voting adults. I would prefer to guide a civil discourse than punish such expressions. In this case, it was not relevant to the class, but the reaction was out of proportion and unnecessary. I think a discussion on relevancy and civility would have done more for the class than the controversy.
Source: CBS
Try again.
Blouise,
You know calling Nazis Nazis is a form of hate speech too. Everyone knows after Kristallnacht they changed their name to the Fluffy Bunny Party (die Flaumig Hase Partei or FHP also called the fffffffffffffhpppppppppttt!). This is not to imply that Teabaggers are Nazis. Merely teabaggers. For one thing, they don’t dress well or consistently enough to be Nazis.
“I found it ironic that Mr. Spindell called people haters while using hate speach in the same sentence, that’s all.” (mahtso)
See, perfect example … hate speech? Calling someone by the very name they chose is hate speech? The only way that that could be possible is if the ones choosing the name did so with self hatred. Hilarious!
non-Robert,
Iced? (as in tea)
Hmm. I seem to be getting spam filtered again.
“As for mahtso and Bernard, they were merely defending their given affinity for this group.” My comment had nothing to do with my affinity for any group. I found it ironic that Mr. Spindell called people haters while using hate speach in the same sentence, that’s all.
Gene H.
1, September 23, 2011 at 12:02 pm
In re: Tea Baggers
They picked the name. That they then wanted to change their branding after someone pointed out what they had done (i.e. The Koch Bros. and Dick Armey started footing the bill)? Is their problem. …
—————————————————————————
I absolutely love it when teabaggers reprimand me for calling them by the very name they chose. They sputter, they harrumph, they moan but none can deny that they did indeed chose that name for themselves and attached all those teabags to their chapeaus.
You’re a bigot, they cry. No, my memory is just better than yours.
http://www.eyeonlifemag.com/a-hat-for-all-seasons/hats-off-to-tea-party-fashionistas.html
Mike,
You’re the one who first brought up tea baggers in this thread, where even mespo seems to feel they do not belong. I disagree with mespo, I do not think you are a troll (bridge dweller).
In fact, you expressed your displeasure with what happened here, apparently not because you gave a damn about the kid or the school, but because it serves the Tea Baggers “the no-nothings” (should probably be know-nothings). And you tossed them into a set including the “haters” of society. You called them a danger to society “They are a plague upon this country.”
And you stated they hate the Government of the US and worse, they “hate the citizens of the United States”.
After you expressed three times how much they hate us, and your continuing statements that my opposition to them was too bland for your taste, I naturally thought you were calling on me to join with you to denounce them and have them killed.
Naturally, I am relieved to discover you just want them all identified as haters of America but are unwilling to have them garroted as I suggested.
Admittedly, I am a bit surprised by that. If I felt so strongly of a group that hated the US and hated her people, and were in point of fact a plague upon this country, I probably would be calling for violence against them.
In the meantime, I am gratified to learn that by stating any amount of support for tea party or conservative policies, I am mistaken for one. I guess that also makes me a gay, black, female, native american, Israeli, Palestinian, Buddhist, vegan, lesbian dolphin.
Los delfines lesbianas palestinas, unido, jamás será vencido
The link SwM provided from the Dallas Voice was helpful in that we know what the speaker claimed he said and what the teacher claimed to have heard. The reporter also provided the setting the child claimed (speaking to his friend, not to the gay student) and the teacher’s claim that the remark was totally out of sync/context with the classroom discussion.
The post written by M.S.Huiner at 9:44am and mespo’s post at 9:42am both contain relevant thoughts to be considered. To those thoughts I would like to add the negative impact of even a one day, in school suspension on a student’s transcript when scholarship money is being allocated by a University’s scholarship committee. Thus I understand the student’s parents wishing to have the suspension removed from his record.
The student should have been given a warning without suspension thus recognizing the inappropriate nature of the remark from the teacher’s standpoint and allowing the student to think about the realities of free speech in determining further expressing his unsolicited views on Christianity and homosexuality in a public school classroom.
I have the luxury of hindsight.
“One wonders what the tea baggers have to do with a kid spouting his parents’ nonsense and getting sent home from school because of it”
Mespo,
I actually introduced it in my first comment in that I stated:.
“What angers me is that this is clearly a First Amendment violation done with the best intentions, but with faulty premises. It gives fodder to the Fundamentalists, Tea Baggers and to the “haters” of society, who are given one more little anecdote about the excesses of “Liberalism”. In this case, based on the facts presented, the no-nothings would be correct.”
What is curious is that my argument was one that usually Anon presents, which is “liberal” excess hurts their cause,but apparently somehow he took umbrage with my remarks. As for mahtso and Bernard, they were merely defending their given affinity for this group.
“Take this thread for instance, which has nothing to do with Tea Baggers, and your insistence of threadjacking it to shout DEATH TO TEABAGGERS!”
Anon,
Is it possible that you are becoming a tad hysterical. Please provide me with a quote where I’ve implied any sort of violence towards Tea Baggers.
As for:
“DEATH TO TEA BAGGERS. GARROTE THEM. RENDER THEIR INTESTINES UNTO CAESAR. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS. 96000 HOURS OF STAR WARS, THE PHANTOM MENACE WITH LID-LOCKS AND BEETHOVEN.”
If you truly believed that then I’d feel you need psychological help. We both know though that you don’t feel that, so what we have is a failed attempt at irony, failing by overstatement of the ironic point. When have I ever advocated any of that, since that is the attempted irony of your invocation.
I think the source of your hysteria is that I hit too close to home in questioning why you only seem to attack your stereotypes of “Left Wingers”, while at the same time obliquely professing your sharing similar beliefs. Something in your approach, Anon, just doesn’t ring true.
In truth I could care less what you believe in as long as you express your beliefs honestly, free of hypocrisy.
If you try to paint me as a “party-line” anything, I believe my body of writing gives lie to that. That you do it, however, is your choice, but when I see you awash in stereotyping of those on the left I’ll call you on it. As to your
accusing me of the same thing in reverse, I disagree. However, the body of work by the Tea Baggers, their own statements and the effect upon them of the Koch Bros., via Dick Armey, serves as its own indictment. They are in my opinion a plague upon this country, you seem though to believe they deserve more respect and I suppose that’s where we disagree.
One wonders what the tea baggers have to do with a kid spouting his parents’ nonsense and getting sent home from school because of it. Nice diversion by our bridge dwellers, though.
The point about the teacher’s dilemma is well-taken. However, job pressures do not provide an excuse for Constitutional violations. We have to come down on one side or the other here and blaming the kid for the uncertainties faced by the government actor seems the worst choice. The teacher can ask what to do and obtain both guidance and cover; the kid gets to miss out on his education. Easy choice to me.
I think I liked the world better when we held government up to a high standard in terms of its adherence to the laws the govern us all. Making government the “victim” of the law is an awfully incongruous position in my view given what we know about the basis for our democracy.
And as Shano rightly said, “Many children are being taught these things.” A case in point:
Republican Debate Audience Boos Gay Soldier Stephen Hill After DADT Repeal Question (VIDEO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/22/republican-debate-dadt-repeal-rick-santorum_n_977105.html
Anon,
I do not need any help in getting the finger pointed at me…. Lol
So sad that a major branch of Christianity in the USA has come down to bashing gays, demeaning women, demanding guns and forcing ‘God’ on everyone else whether or not they are at all interested.
Many children are being taught these things.
” I hadn’t realized I was not living up to your quota of teabagger hijacks used to disparage the enemy traitors of the United States.”
“I think the problem Mike is that if you turned over the rock, you and others here would find that many conservative complaints about liberals and iconoclasts hating society have a solid foundation to them and strike uncomfortably close to home. And that problem won’t stop until we can start acknowledging it.”
Actually Anon, I think the problem is that while you seem to decry the beliefs of Tea Baggers, you attack 94.8% (to use your math) of the statements by those who oppose Tea Baggers. I keep hearing you say you disagree, but have only seen the mildest and blandest evidence of your disagreement. Now why exactly is that?
Oh, I’m sorry Mike, I hadn’t realized I was living up to your quota of teabagger hijacks used to disparage the enemy traitors of the United States. I also hadn’t realized that Professor Turley’s forum was the best and most effective place to denounce the tea baggers.
But mostly, this shows my own ignorance. Take this thread for instance, which has nothing to do with Tea Baggers, and your insistence of threadjacking it to shout DEATH TO TEABAGGERS!
So, since I have been remiss, and you have only seen the mildest and blandest evidence of my disagreement in so many threads that had nothing to do with TEA BAGGERS that you and others dragged TEA BAGGERS into, let me say,
DEATH TO TEA BAGGERS. GARROTE THEM. RENDER THEIR INTESTINES UNTO CAESAR. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS. 96000 HOURS OF STAR WARS, THE PHANTOM MENACE WITH LID-LOCKS AND BEETHOVEN.
I hope that helps convince you of my sincere disagreement with most tea bagger policies.
“Correct me if I am wrong, but “Tea Bagger” is a term used to disparage people and is commonly used by some of the “haters of society.””
Mahtso,
You are correct I used the term with malice aforethought as a direct disparagement of tea baggers and their supporters. However, as polls of their beliefs show and by their own statements, it is the fact that they are the “haters of society’ and as such are quite worthy of my continuing contempt of them, their allies and all they stand for.
This article pretty much sums up what I think theses tea baggers are:
http://www.politicususa.com/en/secular-government-collapse
If you hate the Government of the United States and they admittedly do, then you hate the citizens of the United States who are represented by that government. In truth it is a “phony” movement created by Dick Armey, with Koch Bros. backing and most of its membership is too stupid to realize its own internal inconsistencies. To hate prejudice and bigotry is not prejudice, despite the false equivalencies set up by apologists for this movement. what is so damned funny, if it wasn’t so tragic, is that these self proclaimed tough guys whine like children when their lunacy is exposed. This despite the fact that their constant refrain about those with whom the disagree is couched in the most inflammatory rhetoric.
“I think the problem Mike is that if you turned over the rock, you and others here would find that many conservative complaints about liberals and iconoclasts hating society have a solid foundation to them and strike uncomfortably close to home. And that problem won’t stop until we can start acknowledging it.”
Actually Anon, I think the problem is that while you seem to decry the beliefs of Tea Baggers, you attack 94.8% (to use your math) of the statements by those who oppose Tea Baggers. I keep hearing you say you disagree, but have only seen the mildest and blandest evidence of your disagreement. Now why exactly is that?
Familiar voices with different names.
Anon,
You have to be able to comprehend to understand what people write. Not everyone has the ability to listen, read and comprehend at the same time.
Some people are way too busy thinking of what smart thing they are going to say next to hear or comprehend what others are saying. This is the deer in the headlight syndrome.