There is an interesting controversy in Fort Worth, Texas where Dakota Ary, an honors student was suspended for turning to another student in his German class and saying that he viewed homosexuality as wrong. The teacher at Western Hills High School became angry in overhearing the comment and accused Ary of being a bully.
After Ary was sent home and given a suspension, the family retained an attorney and the school district backed down from the punishment.
The exchange occurred when there was a question about the translation of homosexual terms in a discussion of the German words for the vocabulary for Christianity and the Bible. As society recognizes needed protections for sexual preference, it will inevitably deal with such conflicts. If, for example, a student had said something like this comment about race, there would not be such controversy over the punishment. Yet, homosexuality remains a moral as well as a legal controversy. To say that you believe homosexuality is wrong does not mean that you are threatening gay students.
I understand the concern of the teacher, but this sounds like a circumstance where a correction comment from the teacher would have sufficed — particularly in refocusing the class on language rather than morality. I have long believed in letting high school students talk through such divisive issues when they come up in a relevant class (not German class) while being guided by a teacher. These are kids who will soon be voting adults. I would prefer to guide a civil discourse than punish such expressions. In this case, it was not relevant to the class, but the reaction was out of proportion and unnecessary. I think a discussion on relevancy and civility would have done more for the class than the controversy.
Source: CBS
Mike Spindell:
“As usual you are setting up a straw man and knocking it down. Good work in demonstrating your prowess a defeating enemies that don’t exist.”
This comment was based on another article on JT, not a strawman. I’m pointing out the double standard. Nice job pretending the double standard isn’t there – calling it an enemy that doesn’t exsist.
Shano,
Are you telling us that you are a descendant of vermin….Just asking….
I dont know anyone who thinks their great great great great great grandfather was a field mouse. Not even scientists believe this. Maybe a certain subsect of Furries?
“It’s ok to say stupid things about Christianity and God in the schools”
FFLP,
As usual you are setting up a straw man and knocking it down. Good work in demonstrating your prowess a defeating enemies that don’t exist.
It’s ok to say stupid things about Christianity and God in the schools, and make fun of someone because they don’t believe their great great great great great grandfather was a field mouse. But if you express a view such as his about homosexuality (which was listed as a DISORDER in the American Psychiatric Association), you get penalized.
The teacher has obviously never watched Jerry Springer when the KKK is on… If he’s this out of touch with society, maybe let him teach the letter B to toddlers.
anon,
Just because you say it, does not make it so….Well, with that said….Just because anybody says something does not make it so..If you think about it…Everyone is trying to prove years later that some things are…and somethings aren’t….Words of advice….If things don’t seem like they are…then they are as they is….paraphrasing Yogi Berra…but he really said…..” I didn’t really say everything I said “….I think you fall into at least one of the category’s…
anon,
“You ain’t got any idea, your bluffing, and you know I am morest right than Pete be on this.”
Oh, that’s how.
anon,
“I disagree with 94.8% of their agenda . . .”
That is amazingly preceise! How did you arrive at this figure?
Blouise, I’ll try again, not sure why.
Go and diagram You don’t have the right not to be offended. It’s not that hard. But it is also pointless. I didn’t make the phrase up. It’s a well known phrase used as I point out by writers, by civil libertarians, by atheists, by biologists.
So whatever your concern about that phrase is, and that concern mainly seems to be derisive in nature, it is misplaced if directed at me.
“And, Pete was absolutely right on with his comments in his 8:09 pm post … reality is often much different than what the uninformed imagine it to be”
Fine, since you are intent on carrying on with your bullshit pretense you are a lawyer and knowledgeable on this subject, carry on, fuck Ohio, what IS the law in Texas on this? Please give cites or come off your high horse.
You ain’t got any idea, your bluffing, and you know I am morest right than Pete be on this.
So now, feel free to enter your law lecture on this..
Mike Appleton,
I think that the class that it was used in was inappropriate and I do think that the teacher over reacted….However, it is my under standing that “teaching while gay” in Texas will get you fired….So a number of teachers are closeted….Maybe she is closeted…..The reason I know this, is one of my sisters is a teacher and gay….I have accompanied her at school functions…because her while her partner could not go….because they did not want any questions….
anon,
“Take it up with Google and you’ll find it’s used by many people ” … geeze, that must make it right … go figure … when I think of all the time I wasted actually … still, just for the fun of it try diagramming “No one has the right to not be offended.”
“No Blouise, The student should not have been given a warning” … once again the twist taking the reality of the situation out of its setting and placing it into the setting you imagine to exist but didn’t actually occur … “without suspension thus recognizing the inappropriate nature of the remark from the teacher’s standpoint ” … Now, if you want to discuss the teacher’s reaction or over reaction to the student’s words then you won’t be Chubby Checkering.
And, Pete was absolutely right on with his comments in his 8:09 pm post … reality is often much different than what the uninformed imagine it to be.
Since you are such a fan of Googling an education … enter Child’s First Amendment Rights on School Property or Child’s Fourth Amendment Rights on School Property … remembering as you hit “enter” that different states have different rules and within those states local school systems have differing interpretations on their state rules. For instance in Ohio the public school systems operates within the legal context known as “Thus sayeth the King” so you can imagine the rights enjoyed by students on school property. Okay, now google away Little Grasshopper.
Right Pete, if your on school grounds or at a school function schools can and do legally limit speech. Weather that includes purely personal, off-school time and outside of school functions is still pending so long as there is a connection to the “school code”.
Since public schools are IMO government agents I’d be interested in weather the argument has been made that school censorship of student political speech is illegal government censorship.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/students-suspended-expelled-over-facebook-posts/517
March 4 2011
“Students suspended, expelled over Facebook posts”
“Two students have been suspended, and one student has been expelled, over negative Facebook postings they made about a teacher. The individuals are in seventh grade at Chapel Hill Middle School, meaning they are either 12 or 13 years old, according to My Fox Atlanta. The children are accused of violating a portion of the school code that is a “level one” offense, the worst possible: “Falsifying, misrepresenting, omitting, or erroneously reporting” allegations of inappropriate behavior by a school employee toward a student, according to AJC.
…At least two of the students’ families plan to hire attorneys. Douglas County School officials said the three students violated the disciplinary code but that they could not comment because the parents plan to fight the disciplinary charges in a school tribunal on March 10, 2011. The students could face even harsher penalties, including expulsion and banishment to a school for children with behavior problems.”
I wonder how loudly it was said, and if there where any gay (or rumored to be gay) kids near by? You don’t have to talk directly to somebody to be sending them a message. This could very well have been bullying, and it very well could not have been, we just don’t have all the information.
That said, the real question is “how do you teach what’s acceptable to say in society without infringing on free speech?”
Pete, I’m not a (spit) lawyer (tosses salt over my shoulder), so what the fuck do I know, but it’s not as simple as saying high school students have no free speech rights.
There’s Tinker, Hazelwood, and of course, Bong Hits for Jesus.
I do not think the general thinking is that students have no free speech rights.
No Blouise, The student should not have been given a warning, even for unsoliticited speech giving his views on Christianity and homosexuality in a public school classroom.
If his unsolicited speech was that “Of course, I’m a Christian but I believe my church’s views on homosexuality are wrong”, would you be objecting? Would he have been warned or suspended? If you don”t think so, then what was going on was speech policing and gate keeping and punishing the kid of his views and speech.
““and no one has the right to not be offended.” meaning? (Mike Spindell)
Try diagramming the sentence No one has the right to not be offended. Holy double negative Batman?
Take it up with Google and you’ll find it’s used by many people on many sides of the political aisle (including across the ocean) but all fans of free speech, including Ricky Gervais, atheist author Philip Pullman, Reason magazine, and quoted at Boing, Boing, Huffington Post, National Review, XKCD, PZ Myers, Canadian Feminists, and many others.
But I am glad I could introduce the phrase to you.
you have no first amendment right of free speech in school.
you have no fourth amendment right to be secure in your person or papers on school grounds.
you can be searched on entering school grounds and anytime they feel like it with no probable cause whatsoever.
anytime you are standing and talking you can be told to sit down and shut up.
i never liked it either but i still graduated high school.
Swarthmore mom
1, September 23, 2011 at 5:59 pm
The student’s suspension was reversed. That is probably the best outcome. It won’t be on the student’s record, and the school draws a line with regard to unfriendly behavior toward gay students.
————————————————————————
There you go. (See my Judgment of Solomon post at 2:58 pm 🙂 )
Reality meets reality.
Mike,
““and no one has the right to not be offended.” meaning? (Mike Spindell)
Try diagramming the sentence No one has the right to not be offended. Holy double negative Batman? 🙂