Now this is a takings case. Last week saw the last bullfight in Barcelona, Spain. This week there is talk of a lawsuit by bullfighting companies who want compensation for the ban on killing bulls slowly in a ring for the enjoyment of thousands of fans of the blood sport.
Serafin Marin, a native of Barcelona, delivered the final death blow or estocada to the thrill of the crowd. Some paid 1,500 euros just to watch the bull killed. By the way, a leading bullfighter could charge up to half a million euros for each appearance. The bull gets . . . well, the bull just gets it.
While the ban goes into effect on January 1st, this is the end of the bull killing season.
Organizers are demanding millions in compensation over the ban and there is a plan for a class action. This would mean that any sport found harmful by the government would require compensation. That would be akin to dogfighters suing over the ban on that “sport.” I do not know the Spanish translation, but the court should dismiss the action as just . . . well . . . bull.
Source: Telegraph
Rodger,
Oh, and since I see you claim animals don’t have rights, why would humans have rights that animals don’t?
Rodger,
Um, I’m not sure how you transformed my question about his justification in implying that animals don’t have rights and people do, to a statement that animals have more rights than people.
Also, if you’re going to talk about nature perhaps you shouldn’t use two situations that involve domestic animals (one of which involves a man made structure). Cat’s have been bred to kill mice, so we shouldn’t find it so odd that they enjoy it. Weasels would never get a chance to do that to chickens if a) chickens weren’t bred to be passive and b) the chickens weren’t trapped in a hen house. However, since it’s an interesting topic, let’s just assume you used dolphins and chimps killing more or less for fun, both of which have been observed.
I don’t propose animals have more rights, I propose humans have more responsibilities. We have the capacity to understand that our actions can cause pain, and because of that knowledge have an obligation to try and limit that pain.
Your net name is well chosen. You ARE an angry man, and you DO speak.
And about bollocks, too, which you seem to know an awful lot about. So, thanks for the tip about kicking my cat in the ribs and ripping his balls off – I must confess I did not have the imagination to come up with that on my own.
And congratulations on your shiny Godwin.
Pennsylvania Coal
“whether a regulatory act constitutes a taking requiring compensation depends on the extent of diminution in the value of the property.”
Lucas
“A regulation that deprives an owner of all economically beneficial uses of land constitutes a taking unless the proscribed use interests were not part of the title to begin with.”
Assuming Spain followed American law, what’s an empty non-usuable bullfighting ring worth?
First of all, animals do not have rights, humans do.
Secondly, if animals did have rights, surely they would only be separate and not equal to human rights, because if they were indeed equal rights, then killing a chicken for dinner would be murder. If protection from murder is not included in even second-class rights, then second-class rights appear useless.
Compassion seems to me to be a valid argument against bullfighting, but the idea of animal rights goes nowhere.
AY,
I think there is a huge difference between bow hunting an individual, wild animal and torturing a animal in front of a crowd of thousands for sport and money. Woosty is correct that dog fighting and cock fighting are no different.
Bullfighting is no different than pit-bull fighting and cock-fighting.
It has nothing to do with rights.
It is about exploitation….which is a frank (and by definition) abrogation of ‘rights’.
It is about human beings exploiting animals in a malicious and self satisfying arena because they have not yet evolved the mental capacity or compassion to flex thier human ‘being’.
If ‘rights’ were taken in to account then bullfighting would not pass the animal cruelty acts, the act that protects animals in the food industries, and the generally accepted but not yet ‘sanctified by state’ act that does not allow psychopaths to ‘practice’ thier chosen career ala Dexter in serial murder….
http://www.humanesociety.org/about/departments/legislation/
Now, now ,now you just hold on ther Babalouie.
I am just so sick of people who say they disapprove of hunting because it is cruel. Most Hunters are out to make a quick, clean kill. The animals they hunt have a very good chance of avoiding this fate due to the fact that deer arn’t as stupid as your average Supermarkey shoppr. If you have ever seen the seens of a slaughter house that you so approve of over hunting you would never call hunting cruel again. Compared to the torture, mutilation and violence that the average farm raised animal goes through between farm and grocery store, hunting is closer to a warm loving embrace.
Farm animals raized for meat are beaten, kicked, shocked, have their tesicles cut off by hand with a knife by muderous sadistic monsters and goulswithout any anesthetic. they scream in agony while their body parts are severed and ripped from their bodies. Hunters don’t do that. A hunters animal is always dead before the butchering and mutilation begins. in slaughter houses the animals are often still alive sometimes animals who are dying from the horrible violence inflicted on them are left to lay in festering troughs full of similar animals. Flys swarm on them and maggotts crawl out of their wounds. All the while, sometimes for days as these (workers arn’t here to provide death with dignity)lay helplessly dying they scream and bellow in pain. many of the slaughterhouse workers have games and contests to see who kan kick a pig to death fastest.or see how loud they can make an animal scream before it fially givesin to the blessed relief of death.
Every American should have to hunt for whatever meat they eat. Eating the flesh of an animal is not something that should be taken lightly. It bshould be done solemnly with reverence for the God/Nature given life you are taking.
The idea of mechanised killing factories, not to mention the shameful sadistic reality of them is tantamount to the extermination camps of many of the twentieth centuries most horrific tyrants and mass muderers.
Last. to the gentleman who doesn’t think that animals deserve the same rights as people, I say. Well I better not use that word. I’ll bet your a Republican too. like to watch animals suffer do you? Think that’s OK? Cause they’re just animals right? You are a fool. Since animals obviously feel pain just as deeply and mind tearingly as we do. Don’t believe it?
well since you have no empathy and no sympathy for animals, why not take one out in your yard, kick it ten or twenty times in the ribs as hard as you can. then get aknife and cut it’s balls loose and rip them off. then you could cut the still breathing screaming animal open and degut it. After you have personally done this, you can come back and make your foolish sadistic inhuman staement again you heartless, son of a bitch.
Bet you like to watch people having surgery without anesthetic like they did in Nazi germany too.
People who feel so superior to animals that they are willing to allow this kind of abuse, this mass torture, have tyotally missed what it means to be human.And they certainly have no right to claim faith in any of the worlds major religions, except maybe the Hindu Cult of Kali; The Goddess of Blood.
“bulls are after all domesticated herbivores”
You haven’t walked through many cow pastures with even milk cattle bulls present, I take it? If a family dog were ever that “domesticated”, it would have to be put down.
@Bette Noir: In the Portuguese variant the bulls aren’t killed in the arena that is true, but it isn’t really “bloodless”:
The rider(s) still stabs the bull with barbed javelins (bandarilhas (Port.)/banderillas (Span.)).
(Which also means that most bulls are slaughtered after the fight: they’re injured and nobody wants to pay the vet’s fee for an animal which has no economic value anymore).
And you cannot simply get rid of the banderillas: bulls are after all domesticated herbivores. You need to pressure even the ones who are breed for agression to fight humans.
For me that is really the part which makes bullfighting unacceptable: not the blade in the heart in the end, but the cold blooded torture to get the bull to fight at all in the beginning.
Do you believe that animals should have rights that we do not have ourselves? Animals, in nature, are red in tooth in claw after all.
Cats delight in torturing mice before they kill and eat them. Should we put a stop to this? Ban such behavior in Barcelona? Weasels will kill all the chickens in a henhouse, yet only one is more than sufficient for a meal.
These are the rights of lower animals. Bull fight enthusiasts would ask only for equal rights for humans. Those bulls, btw, are looking for a fight. They charge into the arena with an aggressive rush, and spend their time in the ring doing their level best to kill a man armed only with a piece of cloth and his own nerve. These bulls are not cowering in fear. If they were, they would probably not be dispatched in the ring, but would be sent to the same fate as millions of other cows around the world – to be killed and eaten by people.
I don’t think you are going to have much success in justifying the end of bullfighting using an argument based on rights.
Gyges,
That is exactly my point…There are some folks that justify this sport…Some folks think that High School Football should be eliminated…In any event, I have no dog in the hunt…I don’t go to Bull Fights, I don’t go to any fights….I try to avoid all of it…This is a tradition though….so is bow hunting….
I will liken this to the seat belt law….First, no seat belts…then cars became equipped with them…then it became a law that children had to wear a seat belt…then it became a secondary offense to a stop…then it became a primary offense to stop…and now some children regardless of age….have to be in a booster seat….because they don’t weigh a certain weight or not a certain height….I am in my 50’s….god how did we survive being in the back window….or unbuckled….or without a booster seat….
AY,
Sport hunting with a bow, one key thing; the hunter is going for as quick a kill as possible. I still think trophy hunting is ethically wrong, especially when you risk a greater chance of causing more pain and a slower death to the animal. However, that argument goes away with a skilled enough bow hunter.
Food hunting with a bow, has that difference plus the justification of killing that you’re doing it for food. There’s also a greater incentive to make it a clean kill (large amounts of adrenaline=bad tasting deer).
“Crush” videos come to mind:
“The videos and photographs show women, often in high-heeled shoes, impaling and crushing to death puppies, kittens and other small animals, catering to those with a fetish for this aberrant behavior.”
( http://www.humanesociety.org/news/news/2009/09/crush_video_091509.html )
Would bloodless bullfighting, the way it’s done in Portugal, be an option?
If bullfighting is banned, the only blood sport leftover from the Romans will be our elections.
Arthur,
O.k.here’s my challenge to you. Find me one defining characteristic of humans that grants us rights that other animals don’t have.
There’s a huge difference between the death of (most) food animals and a bull spending its last hours being taunted and wounded while it slowly bleed to death.
rafflaw,
Not that I hunt…except in the meat department of the local stores….But what is really the difference between bull fighting and bow hunting….I realize perception…but would you think that some of these same folks are against bow hunting….I do not know for a fact…just suggesting….
I have to agree with the ban on bull fighting. It is not the idea that animals are being killed, it is that animals are being killed for sport.
Well we can all become vegetarians to please those nuts who think that animals have rights like humans. Will we be allowing them to vote next? My dogs are smarter than many voters.
Bullfighting is a long tradition in Spain and it is an industry which is being put out of business for no good reason other than there are some folks who do not like it. They can aviod that problem by not buying a ticket and leave the rest of us alone. So yes, they should seek damages or the legislation should have provided compensation for those who raise fighting bulls and all those who make a living at it.
Maybe we can try prohibition again too since we are now in the business of political correctness for all of society. One nice thing about getting more Hispanic illegals here is that we might be able to allow bullfighting in some US states now once they become legal.
y Toro, y Toro, El Toro….(I think)
Another chapter in American History….oh….yeah….Spain…..PETA….People Eating Tasty Animals….From what I recall in reading, after the bull is slain….which is an off shoot of the roman ….gladiators….the ear was cut off as a prize….and the bull was cooked…..
And we JUSTIFY Capitol punishment….this makes all of the difference….