We have been following the investigation into the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida. The shooter, George Zimmerman, 28, has not been charged and reported a suspicious character to 911. Martin was returning from a 7-11 after buying Skittles. He was carrying the candy, a small amount of cash, and an iced tea. The family and many others have called for the arrest of Zimmerman, though the accounts of the shooting have been murky. Previously, we discussed the need to hear the 911 tapes, which have now been released and are linked below.
Zimmerman is reportedly a habitual caller into the police and is heard on one of the tapes complaining that ““These a**holes always get away.” Zimmerman states on the call that Martin appeared “up to no good . . . It’s raining. He’s just walking around, looking about . . . He’s just staring looking at all the houses.” Zimmerman says on the call that it is Martin who confronts him: “Something’s wrong with him. He’s coming to check me out.” However, he later admits that he is following Martin, which the police dispatcher discourages.
Police Chief Bill Lee said the 911 calls show that the incident was not a case of racial profiling. He said Zimmerman could not say whether the suspect was black or white. However, on the tape you hear Zimmerman say “He looks black” and then a few moments later, “He’s a black male.” While he is at first equivocal, he does identify his race. That does not mean that this is a case of profiling, of course.
However, family member have been critical of the handling of the case by the police and what they view as the police bending over backward to defend Zimmerman. The family had to file a lawsuit to get these tapes. After a hearing, the police finally relented.
The tapes certainly contradict some statements by the police. However, I am not sure that they substantially alter the status in the case. The evidence still is largely based on Zimmerman’s account, though such contemporary records are generally admissible. The tapes both help and hurt Zimmerman.
The statement by Zimmerman that “these a**holes always get away” certainly shows animus and he clearly follows the youth. However, that does not translate into evidence of intent to kill. I am more interested in the level of force used by Zimmerman and the two gunshots heard on the tape. It is possible that audio creates a misleading impression of two shots but that would seem an important forensic question. It is hard to believe that Martin would allegedly continue any confrontation of Zimmerman after a warning shot unless the shot was fired in the midst of a struggle over the gun. Zimmerman can cite the tape for his statement that he believed that Martin had something in his waistband and appeared on drugs. He can also cite his contemporary description of Martin approaching him.
Putting aside the complaints regarding the handling of the case by the police and the conflicting statements given by officials, there remains the question of whether there is sufficient evidence to base a charge against Zimmerman. I would like to see the coroner’s report on the trajectory and distance of the gunshot wound as well as audio analysis of the gun shot or shots. I would also like to see evidence of the abrasions on both men. Zimmerman was reportedly bleeding from the struggle but we have not heard many details on Martin’s other injuries.
Zimmerman would be wise to secure criminal counsel. There is probably enough here for an indictment. The most salient facts against him are (1) the statement on the 911 tape showing animus, (2) the disregarded instructions not to follow Martin, (3) the advantage in weight and possession of a firearm in the struggle, and (4) the lack of any weapon or proof of criminal conduct by Martin.
What do you think about the state of the evidence?
Here is the Zimmerman tape: 911 Tape (Zimmerman)
Here is a witness tape: 911 Tape (1)
Here is a witness tape: 911 Tape (2)
Source: CNN
Otteray Scribe1, April 16, 2012 at 9:07 am
Woosty, the truth is revealed….
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oh, well then I am not fettered by distiction…love my pooties and my woozles! (miss my woozles…:( )
OS,
That kitten sniper picture always cracks me up.
I will stipulate that K-PAX is both an excellent movie and a better book (by Gene Brewer).
Woosty, the truth is revealed in good time:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/15/1083580/–sekritarmy-carried-interest-pooties-woozles-and-critters-
sonofthunderboanerges,
“IMO (and I’m not sure about this) But any new study is pointless as we share DNA with “some” animals higher than 96%.”
Opinion again and NOT evidence or proof.
Try again.
Also, if Langan had had a formal education to help him understand the context and interrelation of all he had read, he might not have come up with the patently unoriginal metaphysical idea that the universe might be conscious and then try to assert it as the psuedo-science of Intelligent Design. The primary problem with the idea is three-fold, but the two most glaring logical fallacies in the logic behind the idea are the Pathetic fallacy combined with the fallacy of composition. The Pathetic fallacy is attributing living characteristics to inanimate objects. The fallacy of composition is assuming what is true of a part(s) is true of the whole of a system. Parts of the universe are intelligent and concsious. Parts of it are not. There is no proof indicating otherwise. Without proof, you don’t have facts, you have supposition. Which brings up the third major problem with the idea. It’s metaphysics trying to disguise itself in a cloak of science and used primarily by religionists to further a theocratic political agenda. It’s not science. At best, it is metaphysics and at worst it is metaphysics coopted for the purposes of theocratic political polemic. If Langan had not acquired his information (note this word choice) in a vacuum and had instead discussed the issues with others (as is the form and function of formal education under the Socratic method), he would not have done something so fundamentally flawed as both his premise and his presentation. Information is not the same thing as knowledge. Knowledge is understanding, synthesis and integration of information and knowing how to weight said information in understanding the universe. His “Gestalt” theory fails as a matter of forming the intellectual gestalt that transforms information into understanding. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. His idea is metaphysical. He has no proof or verifiable experimentation to back his assertions. Without proof and experiments, he has no facts. Without facts, his theory is not valid as science. This is an old conversation here.
sonofthunderboanerges1, April 16, 2012 at 8:37 am
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🙂
I love that show
and that was an excellent episode….and I am a BIG fan of escape loops and LOA’s
@Bron – Well one of my favorite intellectual actors, Kevin Spacey, said in this very cool movie below: “All CREATURES throughout the Universe know right from wrong…” – so true…
Bron,
“That is a hard one but when it comes down to it, if Zimmerman had not had a gun he might be dead.”
And you know this how, exactly? Remote viewing? Conversations with small avians? You don’t know without a proper inquiry. That was the whole point to begin with Zimmer. You mistake what the issue with the Zimmerman/Martin case was to be some kind of animus toward Zimmerman. The issue was the facts merit a further inquiry and he was about to get a walk. Guility? Not guilty? That remains to be seen.
As to the blow to the head issue? Who instigated? Let’s see what the forensics have to say before leaping to self-defense.
Argument by non-sequitur.
Right and wrong have nothing to do with the point I was making. Right and wrong are intimately tied to the idea of justice as is equity. That’s a different discussion.
dammit
am I the scary then? 🙁
what’s a poozie and a woozle?
@W = ^..^ – No it’s Tercés. But Sheldon Cooper is not my hero. He is a major social annoyance to me. I am more of a Leonard Hofstadter (guy with the glasses?). Here’s a clip from the TV Show:
The Big Bang Theory – The Friendship Algorithm
See any social parallels here?
Woosty, I am not sure, but I think I found your picture. I assume you are a pootie person, and not so much into woozles.
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt256/otteraylens/KITTEN_SNIPER.jpg
@Malisha – The way to contact US DoJ is right here. It doesn’t matter that she already dealt with a US ATTY. That encounter will all be taken in account. I wouldn’t be surprised if AG Eric Holder takes a special interest in this as it may have international overtones – or not… 🙂
Gene H:
“The shape of victory is not always as simple as right or wrong. I know. How terribly un-binary of me.”
Not at all. But there is right and wrong. I know you think that is binary thinking but it is not.
It takes quite a good deal of thought on both sides of an issue to come to the correct answer. And later on additional information may come to light that blows away your previous determination. So that needs to be taken into account and your decision modified.
Like Zimmerman. That is a hard one but when it comes down to it, if Zimmerman had not had a gun he might be dead. I know of 2 people, one a young man who used to work for me and the other Liam Neeson’s wife, who died of injuries sustained by hard knocks to the back of the skull. Now he should not have been carrying a gun on neighborhood watch but if he hadnt he might well have been dead now and Martin would be in jail.
@Mike Spindell – Albeit I am using a crappy IBM Thinkpad (thin laptop) from work, I can imagine that Kindle responses are very problematic. I too know how difficult it would be to REALLY reply to folks here with DEEP theological debate. Therefore I don’t even try as it would take too long and frivolous posts tend to scroll off really well thought out responses being lost into the 8-second world. What’s that? Click here to find out. If anything takes more than 8s to do MOST Americans (at least) just give up due to boredom or are just too lazy for due diligence searching (IMO).
@Melisha – I know Kindles are probably outside your budget. However, there is an e-reader called the Velocity Micro Cruz R102 (yes it is crappy to the geek world). I’ve seen it online for as low as $60 bucks. At a thrift store $49. It can surf the web and has a great 7″ color screen. It’s the poor-man’s (or woman’s) I-Pad. Ask your son about it. I have too many gadgets in my computer science arsenal. I need to do a tag sale (LOL).
Re: This lady that had that problem with the Southern county judge. You do know that this is the crap that FBI is EXTREMELY interested in. They just got finished with NOLA Police Dept. They really wiped out my state putting our last gov in jail for 18 months! They took out so many mayors it wasn’t funny.
They are really cleaning house on corrupt local politicians and law enforcement. Remember that movie EOT you just watched? Yup! That’s what she needs to do – contact her local DoJ rep. That US Atty sounds incredibly dense. Why didn’t he/she bring FBI on line??? Director Mueller will have this guy for breakfast and then this lady can pursue civil litigation and clean out this putz’s assets. She was denied due process. This lady could be very well rewarded for her efforts. Obviously there are OTHER cases of his denying other women and may STILL be doing it (or could be STUNG into repetition?)
OS, could you do a ‘mini’ profile given the info from a blog?
I try not to assess friends, but am not always perceived that way. I recall a certain Chief Deputy Sheriff in a very large department who would leave as soon as I entered the room. Someone told me he thought I could see inside his soul and that I scared him. I must admit that I have a direct eye contact stare that some find disconcerting.
sonofthunderboanerges1, April 16, 2012 at 7:29 am
@WSAC – OS is a profiler????
DO ME! DO ME!!
OS, what would my profile be????
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Careful what you wish for. Sometimes the profile may not be want you want to hear. I’m not suggesting anything about you. It’s just that it’s not a common parlor-trick. It could be very disturbing for some people. You may be different… I dunno’.
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I would love to hear what my profile would be by OS. I respect his posts….also, I realize he probably would decline to do it as our ‘relationship’ is limited to this blog and therefore probably not conducive to anything quite as reality based as a comprehensive profiling. Still, it would be good to know if I’m coming across as a pathological weirdo on the blogosphere…
I’m not a fan of profiling in general, especially in the world of cops and robbers where they can do some damage.
Langan sounds like an interesting guy….the bit of him not fullyrealizing his potential is a bit odd given his recognition…I guess ‘potential’ is in the eye of the beholder….
sonofthunderboanerges1, April 16, 2012 at 7:22 am
(Continuing)
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Is your real name Sheldon?
@WSAC – OS is a profiler????
DO ME! DO ME!!
OS, what would my profile be????
=========================
Careful what you wish for. Sometimes the profile may not be want you want to hear. I’m not suggesting anything about you. It’s just that it’s not a common parlor-trick. It could be very disturbing for some people. You may be different… I dunno’.
(Continuing)
Has anyone looked up Christopher Langan yet? Any comments about him?
BTW when you see letters highlighted here usually with blue, bolded, or underlined you can just CLICK it as it is a hyperlink. You don’t have to retype the words into another browser window. To return here just click your BACK button or hit the BACKSPACE key.