The evidence for the trial of George Zimmerman is slowly taking form. Yesterday, a medical report was disclosed by the family physician of George Zimmerman where the doctor found a “closed fracture” of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Trayvon Martin. While this is the family physician, it would still constitute important evidence in claiming self-defense, particularly when combined with accounts from the paramedics that found injuries to Zimmerman. An autopsy report released today also revealed bruises on Martin’s knuckles, consistent with a fight (though they could be bruises sustained in self-defense). In the meantime, the Justice Department has indicated that it may bring hate crime charges against Zimmerman — charges that would be questionable on the current evidence that has been made public in the case.
The prosecution is likely to explore any differences between the paramedics and the doctor. Some issues are likely to be raise such as whether the paramedics saw a broken nose and whether such “closed fractures” can be easily missed by a paramedic on an street at night. Moreover, such injuries could be sustained by Zimmerman as a result of Martin defending himself.
The leak of possible civil rights charges may be designed to try to get Zimmerman to accept a plea with prosecutors. I have reservations about such a charge based on the evidence that is available — as I have expressed over the overcharging in the case as second degree murder. This case has already raised serious questions of the influence of public pressure on the prosecutors. While there may be additional evidence that would support such a hate crime charge, the current evidence, in my view, falls short of the threshold showing needed for such a charge. The crime is defined as a “criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” The “in part” component gives some wiggle room for prosecutors but you need to still show clear intent on the race issue. While state courts have rejected the need under state law for race to be the “primary” factor, there remains unease in cases where race appears a secondary issue. The Justice Department has sometimes moved against defendants who were acquitted of the same offense under state law as in the Pennsylvania case involving the death of a hispanic man. These cases raise serious questions of when trash talk reflects racial motivations.
We have seen the same type of claim under “Stand Your Ground” in mixed-race shootings without such hate crime allegations. I have previously express unease over the standard used for hate crime charges and the decision to pursue some cases while refusing to move on others with similar or stronger facts. This is a case that could be explained as a crime-obsessed as opposed to a race-obsessed neighborhood watch captain. Indeed, Zimmerman’s past violent record may indicate that he is prone to violence generally. There has been no new evidence revealed that shows that Zimmerman’s shooting was race motivated. His own mixed race background and injuries from the fight militate against such a charge. They certainly do not rule out such a charge, but more has to be shown in my view.
The case is already over-charged as second degree murder. If the Justice Department is going to bring a hate crime charge, it better have stronger evidence than we have seen from Angela Corey to support a second-degree murder charge. Corey was in my view clearly affected by the public pressure in the case in charging the case as second degree murder rather than manslaughter. I am equally troubled by Attorney General Eric Holder discussing the case in public speeches when his department is supposed to be conducting an unbiased review of the facts involving a man who has not been convicted of a crime.
The combination of the leak on the civil rights charges and Holder’s public statements leave the impression that the DOJ will not accept acquittal as an answer in the case if Zimmerman does prevail. The impression, in my view, diminishes the appearance of due process and fair trial for the accused.
What do you think?
Source: ABC
ARE, when I broke my nose, the front of my shirt was saturated with blood. And it was the same kind of fracture Georges doctor is claiming to diagnose with no x-rays.
Sorry about your nose, and I have had the same experience too. So if Zimmerman’s nose were broken, WHERE IS ALL THAT BLOOD? All I ever saw was a trickle, and his shirt had no blood that I could see when they took the photos. So he has no swelling, no cuts, split lip, no goose egg on his head on the scratches, in short, he has NO injuries consistent with life threatening combat or even close to it. As I said, I look worse after running after my dogs in the woods.
Mrs. Top Shot, you said “nothing other then z. dying that night would get them to consider any other options.”
Now, Mrs. TS, that’s just not true, you hear? I’d consider, for instance, the following other options:
1. Zimmerman went to the store, bought the groceries he needed, and returned home, and Trayvon Martin bought his skittles and iced tea, talked to his girlfriend, and went home too.
2. Zimmerman saw and reported Trayvon Martin to the police, and then stayed in his car so when the police came they could locate him, so he could give them all the information he had, and then they took his report, checked the place out, determined that there was no crime taking place, interviewed (if they found) or didn’t interview (if he had already returned home) Trayvon Martin, and then returned to the station house.
3. Zimmerman saw and reported Trayvon Martin to the police, and then got out to follow Trayvon Martin, but when he was told, “We don’t need you to do that,” he answerd honestly, “But guys, you always let these assholes get away,” whereupon the police told him: “YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO ROUST ANYBODY; STAND DOWN” and he did.
4. Zimmerman saw and reported Trayvon Martin, got out to follow him, caught up with him, had a confrontation with him, shot him dead, got apprehended by the police, got taken down to the station house, got booked for manslaughter or homicide of one or another form, and went through the process that people go through when they are suspects in a crime that resulted in a death go through.
and there are an infinite number of other “options” I would consider for that evening. The option I do not consider appropriate is the one that occurred. I don’t care of you, your extended family, Bill O’Reilly and Fox News, Geraldo, Rumplestiltskin and all the Harvard Law Professors all glued together in one big Harvard Law Professor disagree.
lol
Shano — He was treated by a nurse named Maybelline.
Where are the photos of George with 2 shiners?
Lets see those black eyes that can be a sign of a broken nose.
oh yeah. i have had my nose broken, twice actually, due to physical abuse, my black eyes didn’t;t come for two days. the swelling started later on the next morning, one eye swelled completely shut. from a punch the night before.manny o . fact is, body punches make great mma hits. don’t leave a bruise if you know what your doing. manny o. didn’t they tell you that z. inflicted those wounds on hisself? that he and the police conspired together to come up with a story? don’t know if the prosecutor was in on that one or not. you know, the first prosecutor that said there was no evidence to charge z. the photos of z injuries have been doctored, probably with photoshop. that eye witnesses were either coerced or are outright lying. the dr.’s medical reports were made up, even the one where the dr. wanted z. to see an ear, nose throat dr. there were two gunshots. and now m. twitter page was hacked. m. actually looked like the pic they showed on tv for a month. he was almost a ft. shorter then z. not the other way around, (m. being almost a ft. taller then z.} he was just a little scrawny 12 yr. old kid. an honor student. having any kind of foreign substance in his urine of blood test didn;t mean he was effected in any way. did i mention that those wounds were inflicted on himself before the cops got there. app three min. martin didn;t attack the bus driver, the b.d. attacked him. it wasn’t his stolen diamonds and gold that was in his back pack, someone gave them to him. zimm. keys weren’t found laying on the ground. like he had pulled them out of his pocket while on his way to the car. and after loosing z. martin went home since he was standing almost in his front door. the fbi can’t say for sure whose voice is on the recording, but everyone on here can tell you it was zimm. he was a racist, even though when disp. asked him the color of the suspicious man, z. said he didn;t know. z. had great tracking skills, that’s how m lost track of m. instead of being a scared little boy, and running home after he knocked z. down, he held z. down till the law dawgs could get there. just a few FACTS that’s been posted here. looking forward to your reply. and make sure you read some of the replies i will get.
TS wife, How about answering simple questions. I did not refernce black eyes since it takes time for those to develop. How about the swelling that DOES happen fairly quickly? From the photos, there is NO swelling on his head, around his eyes, anywhere on his face, no split lip, no broken or loose teeth, no blood on his front even from his “broken” nose, and these are simple things. Not only that but the wounds on his head have not even a BAND aid! Those head wounds sure weren’t that bad. Did Z EVER put a band aid on those head wounds? I doubt it. Let’s get real.
BTW, without an x-ray, you cannot justify insurance coverage for any fracture. You can say “Rule out” a fracture and then an x-ray is called for.
top shots wife. your posts would be better without the name calling and insults.
ARE, yes, some very good points there.
Prescription drugs are all dangerous, especially the sleeping pills these days.
Top shots wife: People don’t HAVE to listen to your husband’s “reason”; in fact, even if they DO listen to him they don’t have to think his opinions are reasonable.
I’ll send you some apostrophes when I have a few to spare.
Hey Top Shot, I don’t have to PROVE that George Zimmerman was in a compromised mental state, since I have every right to say it, and if he doesn’t like that he is free to sue me for libel or slander, but I don’t mind displaying for you the pieces of news that gave me that idea:
1. Frank Taafe said that Zimmerman was “fed up” and had “anger management” problems;
2. Joe Oliver said that Zimmerman confided in him, but never told him anything about the conflict that he apparently had with the girlfriend who took out a protective order against him (and against whom he then took out a “back at you” protective order the following day);
3. Zimmerman told the cops, on the phone, that he saw a suspicious guy, but his list of suspicions was pretty lame;
4. Zimmerman said, “These assholes always get away”;
5. Zimmerman was apparently the less successful brother in his family and did not have a college degree;
6. Zimmerman had been in trouble with the law in 2005 but now wanted to be in law enforcement and probably wouldn’t be accepted;
7. Zimmerman was very eager to CATCH someone and be thought of as a hero.
See? No proof, just good facts from which to deduce things. And I think it’s a pretty sound deduction. It might be that defense counsel would one day be EAGER to say that Zimmerman was in an impaired mental state on 2/26/2012 — NCR — “not criminally responsible.”
We shall see. meanwhile I intend to keep saying things I can’t prove.
a.r. erb
there are many unreasonable people on here. but i swear, you might be the worst. now the twitter site was hacked. i don’t know where the f your from but my suggestion to you wouild be to stay behind your computer and locked doors. otherwise, make sure you pack a weapon. besides your mouth. you refuse to look at any other evidence that might be of any proof of what happened that night. i see the goose egg on z. why the hell can;t you? you choose not to that’s why. and the sites i go to are known to lie. i doubt you’ve ever been in good ole fashioned fight your whole life. i’ve met ppl like you and i put them in there place right quick. problem is, you don’t have the sense to know how ridiculous you come across. your a nasty old man that is filled with hate. you are so ridiculously stupid that you think a dr.whether know to z or not, is going to alter a report in a federal case, lie on the stand, issue false medical reports so he can later be caught and loose his license. he did approach z form the rear in my opinion, those are lacerations on; his head. usually meaning cut or hit with an object. he was treated at the scene, and it was still bleeding that much. how long does it have to bleed for you to satisfied. he does have a broken nose, that’s been proven to everyone but you. and a few others that wont listen to reason. if the cel ph recording is that states star witness, never mind, what i was about to say would be way over your head. a word to anyone that tries to talk about what really happeend that night, that we know for sure, which is very little, you can’t get across here. it was either a conspiracy or a lie. nothing other then z. dying that night would get them to consider any other options. who the f knows, maybe they have crystal balls. i know for damn sure there not brass ones. and manny o. you’ve got more sense then anyone on here.
I see ts wife is not too swift.
those are lacerations on; his head. usually meaning cut or hit with an object. he was treated at the scene, and it was still bleeding that much. how long does it have to bleed for you to satisfied. he does have a broken nose,
I have stated Z got those from hitting his head on the concrete as he fell backwards. That he has not got a goose egg where he hit shows he did NOT hit head first, but probably as his back hit first. Then his head. The object that hit his head was the ground, and since Martin had nothing but a can of tea, he did not hit him with that since those cans are not what I or any person would use as a weapon. A beer bottle definitely, but a can, not a chance. You also fail mention why those cuts did NOT have even a BAND Aaid on it. Sure could not have been bleeding very much for the paramedics to not do that much. There was NO blood on the front of Zimmermans face in the mugshots either, nor was there any blood on the front of his shirt. So the nose did NOT bleed very much either.
i see that you are overly emotional and immiature since most of your post is devoted to slurs and raise very few salient points. Try answering the question as to why no band aid for Zs head, why no blood on the front of his shirt from his “broken” nose. I never said the doctors would lie, I simply said that in order to establish PROOF of a broken nose virtually ALL doctors I have seen for broken bones REQUIRE an xray to definitely establish what they suspect. Absent such xrays, all that they have is opinion, NOT fact.
People can claim his injuries are “no big deal” but a head injury is a big deal no matter how things look. The fact is this really was a vicious attack by Martin. The fact he straddled Zimmerman instead of taking that opportunity to get away just seals Martin’s culpability
You really think Martin couldn’t have approached from the rear flank just because later they were facing each other? Zimmeran would have turned around as soon as he realized someone was behind him just like anyone would…He easily could have turned around only to be greeted with a decking punch to the face
I prefer my scenario which is FAR more consistent with the KNOWN propensities of both persons. I think that Z caught up with Martin, grabbed him by the arm, and turned him around trying to apprehend him. Martin swung around, and hit Zimmerman who then fell or was pushed backwards. At which point Martin got on top and was trying to hit Z. He was not very successful unfortunately for him, since Zimmerman was able to fend off the blows, and have enough time or Martin paused, and Z got his gun and fired and killed him.
Since Zimmerman has a record of violence even to a cop, and worked as a bouncer, I think my scenario is more likely. Martin had NO such record of violence or aggression as Zimmerman did.
Picture of Zimmerman rear head wounds
http://cdn.theatlanticwire.com/img/upload/2012/04/20/jts0vl1d.jpg
Picture of Zimmerman broken nose. Bulge on the left when facing him. Yes the picture is not conclusive evidence of a broken nose, but the medical report is which means we are looking at a picture of a broken nose
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/18/article-2146070-13261F5C000005DC-461_634x536.jpg
Man…the MMA style blows are right here in black and white…
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/sanfordpd1.jpg
Its the witness statement,…you may not like it, you can think its crap and conspiracy, yet it remains as a witness statement. You called bs on it bieng in the witness statement and are proven wrong. Lets move on
Regarding the broken nose, you are wrong there as well. Here is the cite its in the medical report.
http://articles.boston.com/2012-05-16/news/31712886_1_claims-self-defense-fatal-shooting-injuries
Again you may not like the medical report, you can think its crap and conspiracy, yet it remains as part of the evidence submitted into the court
TO Manny O , I have read that statement already. It is too bad you cannot understand simple things. There are TWO statements in that link. The first is the COPs statement of what he THINKS the witness said and the cop mentions the MMA blows. That is simply PROOF that the cop was trying to cover up for Zimmerman, Unless I can hear or see a transcription of the interview, I have to believe it is ONLY the cops statement. The second part is the WRITTEN statement of the witness. The only thing in black and white from the witness does NOT mention the MMA term at ALL!
As for the so called proof of a broken nose, all that you offered is a report of the documents submitted to the court, one of which may have said Zimmerman had a broken nose. That does NOT constitute proof at all. I have broken lots of bones in my life, and I have NEVER had a doctor simply look at the limb or part, and say it is broken. They ALL have demanded and gotten an X-RAY. Until there is an Xray with a doctors statement having said he looked at the xray and concludes the nose is broken, the assertion of a broken nose is UNPROVEN. Anything else is simply OPINION which MAY or MAY NOT be correct.
Once again, you refuse to answer simple questions. WHERE is the GOOSE EGG? Where are the cuts, swelling, abrasions, broken teeth, split lips, swollen lip, and other NORMAL indications of a beating?
Zimmerman looks no worse than I do after chasing my dogs through the woods!
We could all “fight-choreograph” the thing from now until Zimmerman’s doomsday and it wouldn’t help. HIS story can only make it into evidence if HE tells it. If HE tells it, he will be cross-examined. Certain little things he previously said that were recorded will be open to cross-examination.
I’m not holding my breath for Mr. O’Mara to decide to put George Z on the stand to undo himself. There is a deal being worked out, and getting more public opinion on Z’s side is an important part of working out an acceptable deal. Now, it’s pure theater.
The facts that are knowable have not changed from day 1: Zimmerman, in a compromised mental state, targeted and profiled Martin; he chased him and killed him. Martin tried to defend himself and failed. The police didn’t think it was very important and they let Z go until there was a public outcry.
viciously proceed to land blow after blow after blow on his face and head as well as taking hold of his head and slamming it into the concrete multiple times producing rear head wounds, and a concussion on the back of his head. Give us all a break…
Evey part of that is BS. If that were the case, that he landed blow after blow, there would be cuts, swelling, loose teeth, split lip, and around the head scratches, there would be noticeable swelling from the impacts. There are NONE of those things! Give us a break The photos show conclusively that NONE of that happened. As any person who has hit their head pretty well can tell you, it only takes a short whitle for swelling to show up and you can see and feel the goose egg. Zimmerman shows NONE of that.
Cmon…you get real. You are equating a single slap with a guy that decks another guy and then has the audacity to sit down on top of him (preventing his escape) and then viciously proceed to land blow after blow after blow on his face and head as well as taking hold of his head and slamming it into the concrete multiple times producing rear head wounds, and a concussion on the back of his head. Give us all a break…
Your last comment is hardly worthy of a reply…
Assuming that Martin did hit Z first, it in no way justifies using deadly force against him. If you think it does, then there will be lot of dead women who slap. You would have to say that they MIGHT land a deadly blow and thus deady force is needed. Not only that, but many women have martial arts training and there is NO way to know that they cannot land a death blow. Get REAL! Nobody gets to use disproportionate force against another no matter what.
Hi Arthur Randolph Erb
Clearly you haven’t been apprised to all the pictures and data by your statements. Yes, his nose was broken.. But anyway regarding your baseless assertion about my “unmitigated bs” gall, etc on the mma style straddled punches…
Here is the witness and statement cite on the police report
This is as good as it gets outside of sworn admissible testimony, all I ma looking for is something on par with this (witness statement, police report, video, discovery) where someon saw Zimmerman pursue and produce a confrontation with Martin.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/trayvon-martin/martin-zimmerman-witness-758903
and here:
http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/teg/tsg/release/sites/default/files/assets/sanfordpd1.jpg
On your last paragraph, it shows a bit of a lack of imagination “the only way I can[for zimmerman to get on his back”
It doesnt matter who pursued who in this instance…all it takes to get on your back is someone decking you where you see it coming or you get sucker punched. Then you are on your back. If Martin was scared, he could have then runaway, but because he was the producer/aggressor he had not reason to stop and runaway, he got on top of him and proceeded to needlessly beat his head into the ground as stated by the witnesses. Heck martin didnt even stop when people started shouting at him they were calling the police. talk about cold blooded
First off, there is NO evidence that I have seen that Z had a broken nose. In order to PROVE that, it will take an X ray of Zs nose and an independent doctors statement to that effect. Absent that, it is just BS.
I read the witnesses written statement and it made NO mention of MMA blows at all. In any case, given the lighting conditions it would be impossible to see Martins hands especially since they were moving. So the MMA stuff is CRAP! Also please tell us all what the differnce between MMA blows and his fists hiting Z. You are reading too much rightwing nuts stuff. Also as for his supposed stuff on twitter I also read his site was hacked and I have NO confidence on the so called tweets and I sure as HELL KNOW that the sites you use normally lie.
I have been sucker punched before from the front and I never wound up on my back. I got tagget pretty well too. But I can see that accepting your scenario, Martin could have pushed him back as he swung, which in any case shows clearly that they were facing each other. Martin did NOT attack from behind which is the contention of some. Falling Z hit his head and got his scratches on his head. He was NOT being pounded into the pavement since there would be swelling at the sight of the scratches. There is NONE! You also fail to explain why Zimmermans face is hardly marked at all. No split lip, NO teeth broken or even loose, no swelling above the eyes. only a slight scratch on the bridge of his nose. THOSE ARE NOT MARKS consistent with a beating that was so violent that it might reasonably cause great bodily harm or death. THAT is the standard needed to allow the use of deadly force in a fist fight if even then. Absent any weapon in Martins hand, Zimmerman had NO right to shoot.
Shano – Just read the discovery…Zimmerman was trying to locate a house number so he could give it to the police. Was Zimmerman allowed to walk anywhere after agreeing not to follow Martin?
You really think Martin couldnt have circled around in paranoia and anger that someone was staring at him to teach Zimmerman a less in respect (staring is seen by many people as disrespectful…particularly inmates)
I dont know where the 60feet comes from but I’ll take it at face value and its perfectly reasonable amount to walk to locate a readable house number
Malisha – Ah you are just diverting… im not asking for a piece of sworn evidence, just ANYTHING in discovery, police report, witness statement, anything that directly contradicts the agreement by zimmerman on the 911 call to not follow Martin and zimmermans own statement.