The evidence continues to roll in on the Zimmerman case. While the new evidence is not entirely bad for the prosecution, it does contain some evidence that will likely bolster the defense of George Zimmerman in the second degree murder trial over the killing of Trayvon Martin. Regardless of the ultimate impact, the evidence again shows (in my opinion) that prosecutor Angela Corey over-charged the case in Florida.
Some of the new evidence shows that Martin had traces of THC (the active ingredient of marijuana) in his blood stream and urine. Martin was suspended from school due to a marijuana offense (though it involved an empty marijuana baggie). Another benefit to the defense is that Martin father is shown denying that the voice calling out for help was his son — though he later changed that view when he says he was given a better recording. Other witnesses have indicated that it Zimmerman who was calling for help.
Generally, the existence of drugs in the system of a victim or defendant is admissible. The suspension would appear inadmissible under standard evidentiary rules.
There is also evidence that some neighbors described Zimmerman as a bully and a racist. That would help bolster the reported hate crimes prosecution being considered by the Obama Administration, though I still have reservations based on the evidence as it currently stands. Also the police viewed the shooting as “avoidable” — if Zimmerman had left the matter to the police.
I am not sure how much of the neighbor’s view of Zimmerman as a bully or racist could come into evidence. Such accounts, however, can have the benefit of further discouraging Zimmerman from taking the stand as a witness — always a benefit to the prosecution because (while they are told that a defendant has a right not to testify (jurors expect to hear from defendants).
On the whole, however, I would view the evidence as more positive to the defense. First, I have previously said that I was most interested in the distance of the shot and forensics. It now appears that Martin was shot from an intermediate range (no more than 18 inches and as little as an inch away). That would support the claim of Zimmerman that they were in a wrestling fight when the gun was fired. The greater the distance the stronger the case for the prosecution. The defense will likely present expert testimony to try to reduce the range further on the stand. Also, the report does have people at the scene saying that Zimmerman’s nose appeared broken — supporting the later medical report of the family doctor (though such injuries could occur from Martin defending himself).
Moreover, at least two witnesses appear to support Zimmerman in describing the man in the hoodie at straddling the other man and throwing punches. The report state that the man in the “‘hoodie’ [was] on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.’ He then heard a pop. He stated that after hearing the pop, he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the male wearing the hoodie) laid out on the grass.” One report also says that Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help 14 times on a 911 call recorded during the fight.
While the reports blame Zimmerman for getting out of his vehicle (he says that he was trying to get a house number for the police), that is not itself a crime. Of course, none of this means that Zimmerman was not the aggressor. Given the presumption of innocence and the need to prove the elements beyond a reasonable doubt, this evidence presents an added problem for the prosecution in my view. I have expressed skepticism over the way the case has developed and how it has been charged from the outset. As a criminal defense attorney, I would view this as a strong defense case even on the manslaughter charge, particularly given the poor police work at the scene.
What do you think?
Here is the police report.
Source: ABC and NY Daily News
Why Zimmerman regarded Martin as suspicious isn’t really an issue.
The only issues are his actions once he made that (mistaken) call.
Trayvon was a teen whos parents had gone through a divorce. He may have been ‘troubled’ but he was not a thug. I have know lots of kids go through rough patches like that and go on to do great things.
A seriously troubled kid is not passing in school, their troubles are so great they cannot function properly- Trayvon was not one of these.
Manny, first of all, Martin was an honor student so he had quite enough reading material.
Second, I would have driven right by Martin and gone to the store that night.
The young black males that had been stealing things in the neighborhood had already been caught. George was not involved in this capture, so was he jealous and trying to make up for those construction workers solving that crime?
George may have been having a drug side effect: loss of contact with reality, hostility, paranoia, & aggressive and hostile behavior. All symptoms of Adderal reactions.
Marijuana is much less of a problem than the Adderal George was taking..
I know this is a hard talking point, because marijuana is generally illegal and Adderal is ‘legal’ if you have a script. Marijuana is legal in some states if you have a script. The legal definition of marijuana is a LIE. And a big fat lie at that.
Malisha
How come it was ok for Zimmerman to suspect Martin of criminal activity?
The reasons
1) Because other “young black males” had committed burglaries in recent time and Martin was a young black male that fit the description
2) Martin was looking at all the houses according to the 911 calls
3) He was “acting like he was on drugs” (teetering in step I assume, but he may have been c-walking while holding his nuts and talking to his girlfriend. Yes I know it sounds gross but teen boys its all the rage and it would TOTALLY look like he is on drugs and “have his hand in his waist band”
4) He was walking all around, not like someone simply trying to get somehwere
That all came together in one collage of in the words of Lt Aldo Raine…we got a word for that in America…its “Suspicious”
Lets also consider another point
Zimmerman was doing this Watch for almost two years if I remember correctly…this surely wasnt the first teenager to walk through the community
but for the above reasons, this Martin, was special..he was by definition “acting out of the ordinary” or Zimmerman wouldnt have taken an interest
If you really believe that Zimmerman was just frothing at the mouth to take down any black person for no reason at all, its a non-sequitur
Why shouldnt Martin have suspected George Z of being a criminal?
You mean to suggest that Martin didnt immediatley brief himself on The Retreat newsletters so he would know all about the Watch program and the captain? He probably wanted to join the Watch and help fight crime in his dad’s fiancee niegborhood. Thats how Martin would have known Zimmerman was “the good guys”. Ok being facetious here
But seriously…add this up with the womens jewlery that the school found in Martins bag and suspected he stole. Was the school “profiling” him? Or did they actually have a reason to suspect he actually stole that stuff?
Martin took swing at a bus driver…
Martin was asked by his friends to hook them up with drugs
Character wise…Martin has little Character and basically no credibility with this recent record of his exploits and behaviour on the night in question
Anyone with half a brain would have witnessed his point 1-4 antics and said…Hmmm,,,with these recent burglaries…this guy is suspicious
If you see someone doing that stuff and you dont think its suspcious then the head has go to be in the sand
Oh dear, my horse for an edit! ….. “Zimmerman made two huge blunders….” etc.
I should not have to, but just in case anyone is going to stage some bravura obtuseness …. first name in the last post should have been Zimmerman, not Martin.
It should be clear from the context, but I realise that some here have great difficulty with the concept of “context”.
Manny O: “I mean, you could pay a guy some money to get on a bus, while you hold a video camera on the bus and have him stare hard at a series of 28 year old men and have him go up to them and say “You got a problem, Homie!” and then post the video of what ensues.”
OK. You’re on!
There’s just one or two teensy-weensy little details that need fixing first to make it a real test.
1) The series of 28 year old men need to be consciously following the guy in the dark.
2) To make your test possibly relevant to this discussion, what would have to have happened was that Zimmerman was sitting on a bus and Martin suddenly arrived out of the blue and asks “You got a problem, homie?”
I say “possibly relevant” because according to the girlfriend, the question was “Why are you following me?”
———————-
You’re trying a stunt that that does not work.
You can’t just lift a question out of the context and analyse it as it it had been asked under completely different circumstances.
Ok, well you *can* and have done, but what I mean is that you’re wasting your time trying to pull that with anyone of intelligence.
———————-
Martin made two huge blunders that ended up with Martin dead
1) He followed him into the dark, not knowing if he would encounter him at close quarters
2) When they did meet, he did not identify his business. When challenged, he – according to his own account – got “cute” or according to the girlfriend’s account responded in bullying mode.
Instead of realising his error and trying to calm the situation, his response in either version can only have inflamed it.
Funny, Malisha, Zimmerman turned out to be the criminal.
Bosco,
“Hey thanks for the advice BettyKath. I see that for people like you,,its A-OK if others here are energetic in typing out VOLUMES of assumptions when is denigrates Zimmerman and disallowing any possibility of his side maybe having a little glimmer of truth to it.( i.e. The heading of this thread).
. But when someone like me would show that much zeal in pushing for FAIRNESS by way of challenging that ignorance I should”
People like me? Pray tell who am I like? Never mind.
There is a lot disagreement here but my comment was because you’re the one who has been throwing insults and using lots of caps which denotes yelling. I have trouble processing yelling and caps (they are harder to read). I thought you could use a break so you could better form your arguments. Guess that’s just your style. Go for it. I’ll just skip your stuff.
It occurs to me:
It was “OK” for Zimmerman to assume Martin was a criminal.
BUT
Was it not “OK” for Martin to assume Zimmerman was a criminal?
How come not?
(I believe Zimmerman’s statements to the police that night and shortly thereafter will show he was still counting on the “fact” that Martin could be proven to have been a criminal, so his story would sound OK based on that assumption. He got caught short when it turned out that Martin was an innocent kid walking along.)
Manny O: “I have lived in a number of gated communities and apartments in my time and there is a basic legal minimum that the management must maintain in terms of lights on porches and footpaths.”
Yet again and again, you post without researching.
I’ve given you the police report. The only lighting in that area are whatever porch lights might be turned on in the houses backing on to the area.
“It has to be bright enough to be safe for residents to get to and from their vehicles at any hour of the day or the Management could be sued.”
The vehicles are parked at the fronts of the houses in that estate. Rear is foot traffic only.
It’s dark down that path.
The cop states this.
In addition, logic states this if there is no public lighting there.
It does not matter what your experience of other estates or expectations are. It does not matter what you think the legal requirements are.
All that matters is the actual level of lighting on that particular path.
The only light sources are whatever light escapes from the backs of those houses. There is no public lighting there.
The full text of the Sanford PD report (which despite being pointed at it, you still have not read despite the matter being directly under discussion in your post) on this goes:
“The time of the evening when the shooting occurred was approximately 1916 hours, after sunset, on an overcast evening with sporadic rain showers. The only ambient lighting was produced by the porch lights of several residences, and overall the location can best be described as dark.”
It was dark.
Bosco wrote of his experience of following someone he saw getting out of a neighbour’s car.
He didn’t come back to say if he had done or would contemplate following that person into a dark alley – even if he had continuing sight of that person – nevermind if he had lost sight of that person.
I say again that Zimmerman was reckless because he could not see exactly where Martin was, but he still went down that dark path.
He had no idea if he would suddenly come face to face with him.
Manny cannot get over the fact that a black teen who uses the slang of his generation and smokes marijuana has the right to walk about in a gated community neighborhood at dusk.
George had this same problem.
He thinks Trayvon should be living in Compton and fighting it out with those homies. Then poor George would not be in this mess.
Manny, you forget it was raining that night. this makes even the available light dim by comparison to a clear night.
The reason I say DeeDee had no reason to lie is her original statement was taken before any media attention, etc. the interview is fresh.
And Manny, I said I would do this experiment in Georges neighborhood. That makes more sense as a valid comparison, does it not?
Shano – Go ahead and take the Sling Challenge. but I would take out a life insurance policy first in case you have a family before you walk up to a a few thugs in Compton around 7-8pm and say “You got a problem homey!?” Whispering it so they can’t hear it is cheating. You gotta confront them and be in their face as Zimmerman claims Martin was
The Martin girlfriend doesnt have anything to gain? Where is your healthy cynicism?
She, of course, and naturally, wants to see Zimmerman’s burn as much as you, Malisha, and Sling put together
She is as motivated to “help” Zimmerman look as bad as possible as much as you speculate Zimmerman is motivated to “help” himself look as good as possible
And NOW that she has changed her story adding new words to her memory what was said long after her deposition?
Well…her testimony will be given as much creedence as Zimmermans…except maybe less because she could only HEAR what was happening
Sling – regarding the “dark path”
I have lived in a number of gated communities and apartments in my time and there is a basic legal minimum that the management must maintain in terms of lights on porches and footpaths.
It has to be bright enough to be safe for residents to get to and from their vehicles at any hour of the day or the Management could be sued.
So what does “dark” really mean? Does that mean pitch black? If not then its not quantified and assuming The Retreat was not legally negligent in its path lighting its essentially not helpful in determining the level of light on the continuum of full sunlight to pitch black.
Its doubtful that visibility was impacted for someone with normal vision looking down the foot path.
Was it night? Yes so was it not daytime? Yes, but with a legally required lighted foot path…characterizing it as a “dark path” doesnt seem very accurate.
then again I dont have a better alternative other than for someone to describe how far they can see in front of them in terms of visibity
Just trying to differentiate between an unlit dark alley and purposeley lighted (and legally required illumination) footpath to maintain the safety of the residents of 264 houses
I guess there could be a Turley blog field trip down to The Retreat next late Feb and then we could properly asses the lighting situation around 7-8pm on that foot path : )
Bosco, the only people who believe Trayvon Martin said “You got a problem homie” to Zimmerman are people who would have made up that same nonsense if they had just killed him themselves.
To the rest of us, it is beyond ridiculous and beyond belief.
And I would think there is a conflict in this report: DeeDee reporting a completely different exchange. She has nothing to lose or gain from lying, but George certainly does.
George has already put a bunch of words in Trayvons mouth, none of them believable. (tonight you die! etc.)
Why didnt anyone else hear these words? It all sounds like a version of what George might ‘think’ a ‘thug’ would say.
Problem is, Trayvon is not a thug.
Manny, you just go to the most fantastic flights of fantasy. I bet you are not around any young people these days either!
They all talk like that, even the white kids from good families- it is a part of youth slang, just like ‘groovy’ and ‘sick’ and ‘far out’ and ‘bees knees’ in the past.
Are you some sort of gang expert where you know all the secret codes for common expressions?
I would go into George Zimmermans neighborhood any day of the week and ask that question to anyone. I could do this for years and not get attacked. You stereotyping of people and language is astonishing.
@Manny O: That is Zimmerman’s line. DeeDee says the exchange was “Why are you following me for?” and Zimmerman’s response was “What are you doing here?” while being close enough to physically attack Martin, since a struggle ensued.
I would say, in close proximity at night with a stranger that HAS been following you (by his own admission), Zimmerman’s words and proximity sound hostile enough, to my ears, to be fighting words too.
@Bosco: I use them because in my opinion you are hard of understanding, so it is necessary for me to stress important phrases or you will just ignore them.