The evidence continues to roll in on the Zimmerman case. While the new evidence is not entirely bad for the prosecution, it does contain some evidence that will likely bolster the defense of George Zimmerman in the second degree murder trial over the killing of Trayvon Martin. Regardless of the ultimate impact, the evidence again shows (in my opinion) that prosecutor Angela Corey over-charged the case in Florida.
Some of the new evidence shows that Martin had traces of THC (the active ingredient of marijuana) in his blood stream and urine. Martin was suspended from school due to a marijuana offense (though it involved an empty marijuana baggie). Another benefit to the defense is that Martin father is shown denying that the voice calling out for help was his son — though he later changed that view when he says he was given a better recording. Other witnesses have indicated that it Zimmerman who was calling for help.
Generally, the existence of drugs in the system of a victim or defendant is admissible. The suspension would appear inadmissible under standard evidentiary rules.
There is also evidence that some neighbors described Zimmerman as a bully and a racist. That would help bolster the reported hate crimes prosecution being considered by the Obama Administration, though I still have reservations based on the evidence as it currently stands. Also the police viewed the shooting as “avoidable” — if Zimmerman had left the matter to the police.
I am not sure how much of the neighbor’s view of Zimmerman as a bully or racist could come into evidence. Such accounts, however, can have the benefit of further discouraging Zimmerman from taking the stand as a witness — always a benefit to the prosecution because (while they are told that a defendant has a right not to testify (jurors expect to hear from defendants).
On the whole, however, I would view the evidence as more positive to the defense. First, I have previously said that I was most interested in the distance of the shot and forensics. It now appears that Martin was shot from an intermediate range (no more than 18 inches and as little as an inch away). That would support the claim of Zimmerman that they were in a wrestling fight when the gun was fired. The greater the distance the stronger the case for the prosecution. The defense will likely present expert testimony to try to reduce the range further on the stand. Also, the report does have people at the scene saying that Zimmerman’s nose appeared broken — supporting the later medical report of the family doctor (though such injuries could occur from Martin defending himself).
Moreover, at least two witnesses appear to support Zimmerman in describing the man in the hoodie at straddling the other man and throwing punches. The report state that the man in the “‘hoodie’ [was] on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.’ He then heard a pop. He stated that after hearing the pop, he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the male wearing the hoodie) laid out on the grass.” One report also says that Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help 14 times on a 911 call recorded during the fight.
While the reports blame Zimmerman for getting out of his vehicle (he says that he was trying to get a house number for the police), that is not itself a crime. Of course, none of this means that Zimmerman was not the aggressor. Given the presumption of innocence and the need to prove the elements beyond a reasonable doubt, this evidence presents an added problem for the prosecution in my view. I have expressed skepticism over the way the case has developed and how it has been charged from the outset. As a criminal defense attorney, I would view this as a strong defense case even on the manslaughter charge, particularly given the poor police work at the scene.
What do you think?
Here is the police report.
Source: ABC and NY Daily News
Forgot About The Gun
Zimmerman: He’s got his hand in his waistband. And he’s a black male.
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman: He’s got button on his shirt, late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens. Ok.
Zimmerman: Something’s wrong with him. Yup, he’s coming to check me out, he’s got something in his hands, I don’t know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Something in his hands? Maybe it’s his phone?
Zimmerman: Yeah. He had his hand in his waistband. That’s where a lot of people have their phone. I always reach for my hip when I go for my phone.
Dispatcher: His phone then. Does he look like he’s going to do something threatening with the phone? Like maybe call you and say stuff? Or maybe heavy breathing?
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he calls you, ok?
Zimmerman: (sounding panicky and breaking in over the Dispatcher at the word “just”) you can get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These *******s, they always call collect.
(Looks like ‘that word’ got the first attempt to post this dumped into moderation)
“Zimmerman writes LEFT-HANDED.”
Yes. I saw that.
Apparently he had to learn to do it that way so that he could keep his gun hand free.
You never know when a dog is going to attack.
When you write, the pen moving on the paper sometimes gives off high-frequency vibrations. Dogs are sensitive to these frequencies and it can drive them mad.
People have died.
Not at all, Sling. Strangely, I thought exactly what you meant when I read exactly what you wrote. But it had not dawned on me until then.
And get this: Zimmerman writes LEFT-HANDED. (See him sign the release form for the voice-stress test?)
Ah the joys of copy/paste.
The last post should have read (in part)
Every time Zimmerman mentions going for his phone, his right hand goes to his right hip.
Every time Zimmerman mentions going for his gun, his right hand goes to his right hip.
My finest hour — in tatters 🙁
Sling, you are a treasure.
Get your own late-night TV show.
Forgot the gun
Watch the Interviews and the Walk Through.
You have to watch the interviews to get the body language.
Every time Zimmerman mentions going for his phone, his right hand goes to his right hip.
Every time Zimmerman mentions going for his phone, his right hand goes to his right hip.
Watch him in the Walk Through.
He says he went for his pone. (Hand to hip)
He says it wasn’t where he thought it was.
He pats his hips and pockets.
OH MY GOODNESS! WTF IS THAT HARD THING THAT MY HAND JUST SLAPPED ON????
THAT’S NOT MY PHONE!!!
WHERE THE F**K IS MY PHONE???? I WANT MY PHONE. – NOT THIS BLOODY GUN!!! WHERE THE F**K IS MY PHONE???
About lies, loaded guns and (once again, oh puhleeze) panties.
First: GUNS. Nobody had asked George Zimmerman if he had remembered that he was armed. He volunteered, when he was telling the story (a day after the event, so with a whole day to rehearse again), that he had actually forgotten he was carrying when he found himself under Martin being head-slammed so that he thought his head would explode. It would go something like this:
“street sign…street sign…street sign…you got a problem?…no…phone…phone…oops…ouch…head-bang-explode…head-bang-explode…try-to-get-head-on-grass…HELP HELP!!…head-bang-explode…HELP HELP!!…jacket is up…hand off mouth…HELP HELP…hand on me…
OH WAIT A MINUTE, I THINK I HAVE A LOADED GUN DOWN THERE, OH JEEZ WHY DID I FORGET THAT, I COULDA HADDA V-8!
POW!
“You got me”
“911”
“Help me restrain this guy I shot”…
Damn, lucky I remembered I had that gun…
——————————————————————–
OK, and now for the “Why I felt afraid for my life and had to shoot the bad guy dead.”
——————————————————————-
“He had his one hand on my mouth and his other hand on my nose and with the other hand he was banging my exploding head and then with the other hand he went for my gun and there was blood all in my eyes and…
———————————————————————–
OK and now for the “The a**hole was trying to get away when he attacked me” but he really didn’t want to get away he really wanted to pretend to get away so I’d go looking for a street sign and then he could attack me and it would be the night I would die motherblinker.”
———————————————————————
and then there was that little, “The cops asked me to give them a street name so I had to find it but I got ambushed…”
—————————-
Well, you know, there was a kid walking a dog that night — that was probably why George forgot he had a gun —
—————————-
There is no SMOKING GUN in the statements Zimmerman made, Manny. The problem with the statements is that they are transparently false. Since they are false, they will not hold up. If they will not hold up, the self-defense defense will not work. Since that will not work, George will find himself in a MURDER TRIAL. That is something he probably wants to avoid.
OH PLEASE, If I had a hunk of metal strapped to my side on my waist I would never forget it.
One cannot even ignore a ‘fanny pack’, the one I wear out hiking with a water bottle is always in my awareness. It isn’t like throwing assorted items into a purse and zipping it up.
It is a specific accessory that has to be handled individually, has its own individual holder, has to be ‘loaded’ and ‘unloaded’ and at times cleaned and oiled and is hard metal .
A gun is not like a purse or underwear, it is something that is strapped onto your waist, can be felt at all times, and has some weight & bulk.
The reason we do not see any support for George is that he LIED to the judge about his money. People do not like liars. George is back in jail because he is a LIAR. That is the smoking gun. No one can believe anything a liar says about anything.
Malisha – He ALWAYS had that gun. Just like most men ALWAYS have their wallet or women ALWAYS have their mace/purse. You never know when you are going to need to pay for something and you never know when you are going to come into contact with a crazy dog or a mugger/rapist which is why you have to ALWAYS have it for the thing to be helpful. Saying he forgot he had it only means he wasn’t actively thinking about it just like men and women don’t actively think about their mace, wallet, purse, whether they wore the white or the black briefs, etc every second of the day. Didn’t you see Jerry McGuire where Rene Zellwegger goes on a date with Tom Cruise and then things get hot and heavy and to her horror, in the heat of the moment, she is wearing her granny panties? : ) She forgot she was wearing those hideous but comfortable things until she realized they were about to possibly sleep together and her eyes got wide as golf balls. Perfectly reasonable.
The stuff only came out this week, heck I am surprised there isn’t a new posting on this blog for it. We will see what the pundits say once everyone has a chance to ingest it all and form new opinions. My point is just that there is no smoking gun in any of it, not obvious conflicts that don’t require some kind of spin. With certain conflicts in statements/video given by the same person its just damning…no spin needed and no debate needed because it is so painfully obvious to everyone on both sides of the issue. However, thats not the case here from what I can tell. These released statements and video do nothing to make this case any easier as we sort of hoped in our own way each they would
Hi Manny. Welcome back.
Zimmerman was asked about the circling. He answered that Martin had walked all around the car. A full circle.
This ‘circling’ had created some debate, as most people assumed that he was describing Martin as approaching from the Clubhouse. – and I see that you are still thinking that way.
“Just having martin walk down towards the truck from the clubhouse, go around the truck behind it can qualify as circling the car.”
According to the Walk Through, Martin was not approaching from the truck. Zimmerman says that Martin was at the Dog-walk end of Twin Trees when he drove into the road.
However Martin might have walked around the truck, it freaked Zimmerman. You can hear him at 1:30 in the recording.
There is no time line to accommodate Zimmerman’s words and a full circling from the Clubhouse. It can be done in an approach from the other direction.
There are problems with that.
The conversation with the dispatcher is all about the incoming patrol meeting up with Zimmerman. Listen to the call. Its not about directing the patrol to a place where the patrol might begin a blind search for some black late-teen in a hoodie. It’s all about meeting up with Zimmerman.
First it’s at the at the mailboxes, then Zimmerman changes that to the patrol calling him so that he can tell them were he’s at.
It’s still all about meeting up with Zimmerman.
You appear to think that the following makes sense:
1. Patrol arrives and rings Zimmerman.
2. Zimmerman gives them an address.
3. Patrol goes to that address.
4. Zimmerman is not there. He’s gone back to his truck.
Um…… So the patrol arrives at the address
Aaaaaaaand……..
…… he still has to walk them through exactly how to get to where he is at or where he believes martin is at…all of which take time and there is potential for misunderstanding which takes more time.
Don’t you think that it would be more efficient to actually meet up with Zimmerman?
…. so that he won’t have to “walk them through exactly how to get to where he is at or where he believes martin is at…all of which take time and there is potential for misunderstanding which takes more time. ”
If you think that them going to an address that Zimmerman is not at, because he’s left it to walk back to his truck is “the BEST option”, I would be absolutely fascinated to hear you explain why.
Oh, and about “I forgot I was carrying a loaded gun,” — because he was not chasing a dog? Just an “a**hole” who was trying to “get away”?
There’s a way to explain that away? I can just see it now.
Prosecutor: “Did you say on 2/27/2012 that you had forgotten you brought your loaded gun with you when you exited the car to check on the street name?”
GZ: Yes I did.
Prosecutor: Do you want to retract that statement now, about having forgotten you had a loaded gun?
GZ: No, sir.
P: You still maintain that for a period of time between the time you exited your vehicle and the time when Trayvon Martin’s hand went down to your chest you had actually forgotten you were carrying a loaded gun?
GZ: Yes, sir.
P: Was it Trayvon Martin’s hand touching your chest or side that made you remember your loaded gun?
————————- OR —————-
P: You say that when you exited the car, you forgot that you were carrying a loaded gun, right?
GZ: Yes, sir.
P: So when you exited the car, you were not worried about meeting a dog?
GZ: No, sir.
P: So you only carry the loaded gun when you’re afraid of dogs?
GZ: Yes, sir.
P: When you’re afraid of thugs, or a**holes, you don’t carry your loaded gun?
GZ: um…
————————– OR ————————-
See, it can play out any number of ways, and any way it plays out, that little stupid statement alone can really make a jury think, “Something about his story just doesn’t make sense to me…”
Manny, if you think those stories Zimmerman told and the handwritten statement he wrote and the voice-stress video and the physical evidence the prosecutor had all work out to Zimmerman’s credibility being good enough at this point for O’Mara to put him on the stand and get him off, you can add your firm belief to Dershowitz’s histrionics and you can crow and post a bunch of stuff when this works out your way. If you’re counting on the fact that a bunch of headlines have not come out saying: “Zimmerman’s statements crippled his defense,” fine, that’s one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it is that a bunch of headlines that DID SAY THAT RIGHT NOW would be used by O’Mara to say his client can’t get a fair trial, something that Corey is not interested in dealing with.
Zimmerman’s judge and Zimmerman’s prosecutor and Zimmerman’s defense counsel are, all three, interested in having as little press as possible right now. That’s not because Zimmerman’s statements did him any good; it’s probably because the parties who can lose the most right now are the SPD, Wolfinger, et al., and not because of the public, but because of the feds.
Corey has plenty of physical evidence right now that will make it obvious that George’s story (including that part about asking a witness to help him restrain the already shot Trayvon Martin, rather than calling 911) is so full of holes that no defense counsel in his right mind would rely on anything he said.
Notice Dershowitz making any comments about George’s story? If you find that, please do me a favor and post the link. Dershowitz comments AFTER release of the Zimmerman re-enactment video, handwritten statement, and so forth. I haven’t found it yet.
If the statements released supported your version, Manny, Police Chief Lee would be back in the saddle again.
Malisha,
What is this “physical evidence” you speak of that is indisputably incriminating zimmerman?The trajectory of the shot, the burn residue, the witness testimony ( particularly before anything changed after the media frenzy) supports Z’s version of events.
I will address the three things you mentioned though not sure if you consider those physical evidence or whether you are referring to something else
Regarding “circling the car”. ThIs doesnt mean Martin was doing donuts around the car like a shark or something. Circling the car does not require a plurality of circles, it is commonly used in place of “go around the car”. Just having martin walk down towards the truck from the clubhouse, go around the truck behind it can qualify as circling the car. He doesn’t need to mention this phrase on the non-emergency call, he clearly stated he came towards him and then was running away and looking at the topology of places and what happened it is entirely consistent with him later rephrasing it as martin circled or went around his truck. People are just misunderstanding his words as “shark circling”. That misinterpretation does nothing to undermine or conflict with Zimmerman’s story. Just a nothing-burger here
Regarding the “ridiculous and unbelievable” idea that the cops wanted a street address or that Z wanted to give them a street address. This again make sense even if the non-emergency number didn’t use those exact words. Zimmerman wanted to give a precise location of where Martin was or was at least last seen…even if it meant calling back with exact detail.He as well as everyoneelse knows that when cops are enroute all they can do is follow the gps nav to an address and seconds count. If they come into the complex just looking for his truck, by that time, the situation may have changed so much that they are no longer near the truck. If they just call zimmerman when they get there, he still has to walk them through exactly how to get to where he is at or where he believes martin is at…all of which take time and there is potential for misunderstanding which takes more time. The BEST option is to call back with an address that the cops can just go straight to which is what Zimmerman wanted to do and it makes sense why he would want to regardless. Nothing burger here as well
Regarding the notion that he “forgot” he was carrying a gun, it makes perfect sense. Here is why. he got the gun in the past ONLY because of the DOG problem. The DOG was the trigger for the gun. Just like a woman carries mace to deal with a mugger/rapist she may well forget at a dinner party that she has the mace in her purse. IN fact she may never give it a second thought until the trigger for getting the mace in the first place occurs again…IE she is walking to her car at night and man puts her in a headlock to prep for a mugging/rape…then she remembers AH I HAVE MACE
So same thing here…no threatening dogs so it wasn’t in the front of his mind. It was only when Martin was on top of him and his jacket was pulled up while he was trying to get free from Martin’s vicious onslaught that Martin saw the holstered gun and went for it when ZImmerman remembered it and realized he needed to act quickly or he was going to be killed by martin, if not through blunt force trauma to the head on the edge of the concrete path at the hand of Martin it would be through being shot by Martin with his own gun. So another nothing burger here as well
Zimmerman stories make sense and are consistent with each other as much as can be expected for normal human recall and unless there is some other unknown damning physical evidence then I say again…
Dershowitz was right!. Corey is a disgrace and she shouldn’t have charged anything let alone murder 2 using that strawman mockery of an affidavit. She should thank her lucky stars for the protection she gets as a prosecutor from lawsuits…in fact that’s probably what gave her the gall to do what she did…knowing she was beyond the reach of punishment.
Just look at the Media response to Zimmerman’s released statements and re-enactment. Notice how there isn’t a single headline that “Stories conflict” or “Gotcha Zimmerman!”
Why do you think that is?
It’s because they don’t conflict and if you have to do a handstand or close one eye to eek out some hazy inconsistency then it’s just not beyond a reasonable doubt and a jury is not going to do handstands or squint
So its not obvious to the media that the stories conflict, its not obvious to me (in fact to the contrary) and if anything the media would take any piss poor excuse to pounce on any thing like this to string Zimmerman up in the headlines, but they don’t because they know they can’t, as not even a piss poor excuse exists in the statements or re-enactments to do such a thing
Bettykath, I agree about the flies and honey. But the investigators who got Zimmerman to talk himself into that corner then OPENED THE DOOR AND LET HIM WALK OUT even though he had painted himself into the corner, painted a target on his own chest, and handed them the brush!
Only when we view what he said in retrospect AFTER Corey drew murder charges against him can we look upon this as good police work.
It would have been good police work if they had:
1. Taken George to the hospital and had x-rays and blood tests and everything else;
2. questioned him extensively on what his actual movements were OVER TIME and how he had been able to shoot his assailant while being unable to even grab the assailant’s hands OR land a single punch himself; and
3. Charged him.
In fact, I believe (personally, no evidence) that the agreement to let him off had been made by the time he wrote his written statement, and he knew about it (somehow, perhaps by a phone call with Dad) and that is why he did not ask for a lawyer before starting off on his blah blah blah blah blah blah and then I felt like my head was gonna explode blah blah blah “trip.”
Listened to all the tapes. Sounds like the investigators had the same concerns about his story that we had.
Malisha, you get more with honey than vinegar. They kept Z talking. He has to be one of the worst clients for a defense lawyer. talk, talk, talk. The investigators pointed out the discrepancies in his story and still he talked, talked talked.
The gun.
The trigger for buying it in the first place was a need to have something faster than a can of mace when faced with that savage dog.
The safe way to carry any gun is in the unloaded state, and with a safety catch on.
Then there’s “Lock and Load” – which a process in which one first Loads a round into the chamber and *then* Locks (the safety catch). That’s why it’s called Lock and Load.
Scientists are working on the design of a gun which is Locked before it is Loaded. Apparently there is a big consumer demand for such a thing.
Then there’s something like a K-Tel double-action with no safety catch.
It’s still safe as long as one does not have a round in the chamber.
However, dangerous dogs need fast reaction, so always have a round in the chamber – even if that means a careless grab might result in literally result in shooting oneself in the foot.
When confronted with a dangerous dog, it’s not enough to be fast to get a shot at it.
Some dangerous dogs can take a lot of shooting. And some shooters are crap at shooting.
There is a danger of running out of ammo. Only 7 rounds in the magazine of that K-Tel I think.
One thing that helps is to start with a full magazine, and get a round in the chamber, take out the magazine and put another round in it to take the place of the one in the chamber.
Now you got one in the chamber and 7 in the magazine.
Now one is prepared for a seriously tough dangerous dog – or a trip to the local store.
There is something seriously wrong with someone who walks around with a weapon in that sort of configuration.
It’s hard to credit that anyone with a mindset that leads them to do that would forget about it — particularly in a situation in which they are “not following” in the dark someone they consider to be a thug – and who had just circled their truck in a menacing manner.
Manny, if you will notice, during the conversation with the voice-stress-test analyst, Zimmerman volunteers the information that, before Trayvon Martin reached for Zim’s gun, Zim had actually forgotten that he was carrying a loaded gun.
FORGOTTEN!
Think that’s gonna play in front of a jury of his peers?
If I were O’Mara, I’d do anything I had to do to keep Zimmerman off the stand. I’d shoot him in the foot if I had to.
Manny, I don’t even understand your position on the so-called wrongness of the prosecution’s position.
“So it looks like Dershowitz was right. Corey is a pandering incompetent who used this for her own re-election personal agenda and her affidavit should go down in history as the most one sided misleading pathetic excuse for probable cause there may have ever been. The WHOLE truth was simply absent from that affidavit and its a travesty of prosecutorial misconduct. Thank goodness for reputable men like Dershowitz who will stand up and go on record against two bit disgrace’s such as Corey. * * * That is unless there is some other huge incriminating bomb that has not been released against zimmerman, but so far it looks like he is most likely going to be let go in the final analysis.”
Manny, the “huge incriminating bomb” is that Zimmerman’s story, which is inconsistent even with itself in certain ways, is inconsistent with the physical evidence that cannot be “spun” out of existence.
Zimmerman’s story is that he was in the truck calling the non-emergency number. Along comes “the suspect” — he refers to Martin as “the suspect” in his written statement, repeatedly. (HINT: He has now profiled Martin.) Along comes this “suspect” looking into houses. No mention of which houses “the suspect” is looking into.
Zim claims that Martin circled the car WHILE Zimmerman was on the phone with the non-emergency number! Wait a minute. That will not fly, in view of the fact that had he circled the car WHILE Zim was on the phone, you would expect Zim to tell the cops, “He’s circling the car” and you would expect the cops to say: “DO NOT GET OUT OF THE CAR” and to give further instructions. It’s frankly unbelievable and won’t stand up to cross-examination.
Then you have Zim claiming that he was looking for a street name.
Unbelievable.
Ridiculous.
He claims that the officers asked him for a street name.
No they didn’t. They asked where Martin “ran” and Zim answered, “toward the back entrance to the neighborhood” or words to that effect.
On and on, none of his statement proves self-defense IF IT IS NOT SIMPLY ACCEPTED AS THE WORD OF GOD HANDED DOWN ON THE MOUNTAIN. Under cross-examination, his story would break down to a string of senseless non-credible snippets of delirium, and THAT is why this case is not overcharged and also why no attorney who doesn’t want to be labeled “ineffective assistance of counsel” under the Sixth Amendment would ever dare to put Zim on the stand to testify to what he told the cops back in February 2012.
O’Mara fought making the statements public NOT because he thought he could get George Zimmerman OFF by using those statements, but because once the public got wind of how atrociously the police handled this case in the two days after the death of Trayvon Martin, O’Mara’s job would become much MUCH more difficult.
Of course, with the money pouring in, he will still come out ahead. Zim will plead to whatever he has to plead to and accept whatever sentence he has to accept and O’Mara will take it to the bank, thanks to the pro-Zims and the gun lobby.
Dream on Manny O. George is a pathological liar and you are dumb enough to believe him.
Sling, thanks. fresh start today. i’ll check it out.
From the reenactment, I can see where M was concerned about Z following him. Z checked him out all the while he walked down Retreat. He probably ran down Twin Trees after he “lost” Z. Then Z went down Twin Trees and he’s back. Z parks and M, who has gone down the path, *comes back and checks him out by circling the car.* And M disappears. Z is so afraid that he doesn’t watch where M goes. Z doesn’t offer and the cops don’t ask, “where did M go?” *-* is while Z is on the phone but he doesn’t mention it.