The evidence continues to roll in on the Zimmerman case. While the new evidence is not entirely bad for the prosecution, it does contain some evidence that will likely bolster the defense of George Zimmerman in the second degree murder trial over the killing of Trayvon Martin. Regardless of the ultimate impact, the evidence again shows (in my opinion) that prosecutor Angela Corey over-charged the case in Florida.
Some of the new evidence shows that Martin had traces of THC (the active ingredient of marijuana) in his blood stream and urine. Martin was suspended from school due to a marijuana offense (though it involved an empty marijuana baggie). Another benefit to the defense is that Martin father is shown denying that the voice calling out for help was his son — though he later changed that view when he says he was given a better recording. Other witnesses have indicated that it Zimmerman who was calling for help.
Generally, the existence of drugs in the system of a victim or defendant is admissible. The suspension would appear inadmissible under standard evidentiary rules.
There is also evidence that some neighbors described Zimmerman as a bully and a racist. That would help bolster the reported hate crimes prosecution being considered by the Obama Administration, though I still have reservations based on the evidence as it currently stands. Also the police viewed the shooting as “avoidable” — if Zimmerman had left the matter to the police.
I am not sure how much of the neighbor’s view of Zimmerman as a bully or racist could come into evidence. Such accounts, however, can have the benefit of further discouraging Zimmerman from taking the stand as a witness — always a benefit to the prosecution because (while they are told that a defendant has a right not to testify (jurors expect to hear from defendants).
On the whole, however, I would view the evidence as more positive to the defense. First, I have previously said that I was most interested in the distance of the shot and forensics. It now appears that Martin was shot from an intermediate range (no more than 18 inches and as little as an inch away). That would support the claim of Zimmerman that they were in a wrestling fight when the gun was fired. The greater the distance the stronger the case for the prosecution. The defense will likely present expert testimony to try to reduce the range further on the stand. Also, the report does have people at the scene saying that Zimmerman’s nose appeared broken — supporting the later medical report of the family doctor (though such injuries could occur from Martin defending himself).
Moreover, at least two witnesses appear to support Zimmerman in describing the man in the hoodie at straddling the other man and throwing punches. The report state that the man in the “‘hoodie’ [was] on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.’ He then heard a pop. He stated that after hearing the pop, he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the male wearing the hoodie) laid out on the grass.” One report also says that Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help 14 times on a 911 call recorded during the fight.
While the reports blame Zimmerman for getting out of his vehicle (he says that he was trying to get a house number for the police), that is not itself a crime. Of course, none of this means that Zimmerman was not the aggressor. Given the presumption of innocence and the need to prove the elements beyond a reasonable doubt, this evidence presents an added problem for the prosecution in my view. I have expressed skepticism over the way the case has developed and how it has been charged from the outset. As a criminal defense attorney, I would view this as a strong defense case even on the manslaughter charge, particularly given the poor police work at the scene.
What do you think?
Here is the police report.
Source: ABC and NY Daily News
THe questions asked of George Z in the non-emergency call:
see below
Call 00:45: He’s just walking around the area[you are at]?
Question asked sounds to me like, “Why’s that suspicious?” — not “tell me the exact address he’s walking around at.”
Call 00:52: Hey so y’said its 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Question is simple — you gave an address (for club house) — which is it, 1111 or 111? It quickly becomes irrelevant anyway.
Call 00:55: Thats the clubhouse?
Why would George have to dismount to find the clubhouse? He has already told them about the clubhouse and it’s a landmark. No confusion.
Call 00:56: Do you know…he’s near the clubhouse right now?
Don’t need to get out and look around to answer THAT question.
Call 01:28: Ok, Let me know if he does anything, okay?
Don’t need to get out and look around to answer THAT question. It has nothing to do with location.
Call 01:32: Ok, just let me know if this guy does anything else
Don’t need to get out to answer that one either.
Call 01:56: Ok, you say he’s on the left hand side from the clubhouse?
Don’t need to get out to answer that one.
Call 02:09: He’s running? Which way is he running?
George answered it just fine without getting out.
Call 02:10: (Zimmerman’s car door opens)
YUP. Yet they had not said, “Go see where he went,” did they?
Call 02:15: Ok, which entrance is that that he is heading towards?
George didn’t need to get out to answer that question — he answered it already.
Call 02:59: Ok, where do you want to meet with [police] at?
This is not about where Trayvon is; this is about where George wants the police to meet him when they arrive to see if there’s a problem they need to solve. George will need lots of reassurance.
Call 03:21: Ok, what address are you parked in front of?
Does he need to go look for a street sign to tell them where he’s parked? His car is visible from the clubhouse! In fact, rather than answering, he says they should CALL HIM WHEN THEY ARRIVE. You can tell from this evasive answer that he is deciding that he will not stay in one place, or go to his car, now. He will FIND THAT A55HOLE now.
Absent from the call: “George we can’t help you unless you find the exact address where that suspicious guy has gone to.”
Manny, I don’t agree with the last comment you made even though you were trying to make it sound so reasonable. I still think the story Zimmerman told and you either believed or adopted is absurd in the extreme.
But look at what you actually are saying:
“It’s certainly more likely than the oft quoted option that Zimmerman was just an evil predator who hunted down Martin and executed him in cold blood for no reason other than racist sport the way a hunter goes into the forest and stalks and shoots an innocent rabbit with a rifle.
“Lets be real here…Martin was no saint and neither is Zimmerman. Who really is a saint these days?”
Why should it be more likely that Trayvon Martin was an oversensitive, violent, foolhardy, mean, murderous, stupid kid (decided to try to kill Zimmerman for dissing him) than that “Zimmerman was just an evil predator who hunted down Martin and executed him in cold blood for no reason other than racist sport the way a hunter goes into the forest and stalks and shoots an innocent rabbit with a rifle.”
Manny! That’s a real mix of ideas. Let me break it down:
Racist murderer (probably for reasons of really bad upbringing and quite unfortunate psychosocial influences) is much less likely than
Murderous stupid 17-year-old punk trying to commit murder because he imagined himself “dissed” when he wasn’t.
OH, and a guy who goes into the woods to shoot rabbits with a rifle IS NOT COMMITTING A CRIME. He’s probably (if he has a hunter’s license) complying with the law and probably even complies with the other regulations he should follow.
Zimmerman did not follow his regulations. NW regulations say NO GUNS.
They say NO FOLLOWING. They say NO CONFRONTING. THey way WATCH AND REPORT.
So let’s break it down further.
YOU think it is likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman.
I think it is far far FAR more likely that Zimmerman confronted Martin, scared him, and then, when Martin tried to defend himself, KILLED HIM in a manner that is described by Florida law as Murder-2.
As to “Martin was no saint and neither is Zimmerman. Who really is a saint these days?”
Manny, I’m no saint. But I have never killed an unarmed stranger for walking around “looking about” in the rain.
Shano, Malisha, So sorry about the bad info re: the payment Z got. It may have been a different article or who knows. Corrections appreciated.
Malisha – It still seems like reaching when you say option 4 is less likely than 4600+ other options. It’s certainly more likely than the oft quoted option that Zimmerman was just an evil predator who hunted down Martin and executed him in cold blood for no reason other than racist sport the way a hunter goes into the forest and stalks and shoots an innocent rabbit with a rifle.
Lets be real here…Martin was no saint and neither is Zimmerman. Who really is a saint these days?
But if Zimmerman story (call and walkthrough) is true (see the Call timeline interpretation I posted several posts back) then its going to come down to a concerned citizen who kept eyes on Martin as much as possible by tracking him out of concern for his neighborhood AND FURTHERMORE at dispatch instruction and if this alone was what supposedly “provoked” Martin to viciously attack him after Martin doubled back towards Zimmerman…then Zimmerman will almost certainly be exonerated
While you may think what Zimmerman did was “creepy or provocative” most impartial jurors will not think it warrants or deserves initiating a brutal physical attack, ESPECIALLY when the attacker was clear and out of sight of Z and then chose to come back towards Z which is consistent with the Call (aka, slings one true witness) and the Walk through.
Sling – Okay, lets focus on exactly when Zimmerman gets out of the truck as indicated by his door open ding dong sounds. That happens at 2:10
YET EVEN STILL!
There are 8 (instead of 11) dispatcher queries about Martin’s location, behavior, and direction of travel BEFORE Z opens the door. In fact, when Zimmerman says, “Shite, he’s running”, the dispatcher immediatley responds at 2:09 with “He’s Running?…Which WAY is he running?” all prior to Zimmerman getting out of the truck
It really does make sense that Zimmerman was trying to keep an eye on him as dispatch instructed him according to the ONE TRUE WITNESS and get updated address for where Martin was, especially when he was running making the previous given addresses obsolete.
Point being the dispatcher was ENTIRELY and TOTALLY interested in where Martin was play by play and what he was doing and he asked for Z numerous times to assist. Twice in rapid succession, Dispatcher says to Zimmerman “tell me if he does anything” and then again seconds alter, “Just let me know if he does anything else” long before Zimmerman got out of the truck
Clearly, Zimmerman was trying to keep an eye on Martin per the dispatchers previous queries and instruction and Zimmerman recollection during the walk through was merely paraphrasing all of this quite honestly and quite well considering it was from memory
see below
Call 00:45: He’s just walking around the area[you are at]?
Call 00:52: Hey so y’said its 1111 Retreat View or 111?
Call 00:55: Thats the clubhouse?
Call 00:56: Do you know…he’s near the clubhouse right now?
Call 01:28: Ok, Let me know if he does anything, okay?
Call 01:32: Ok, just let me know if this guy does anything else
Call 01:56: Ok, you say he’s on the left hand side from the clubhouse?
Call 02:09: He’s running? Which way is he running?
Call 02:10: (Zimmerman’s car door opens)
Call 02:15: Ok, which entrance is that that he is heading towards?
Call 02:59: Ok, where do you want to meet with [police] at?
Call 03:21: Ok, what address are you parked in front of?
IF George’s trip out of the vehicle was made in order to get the name of the street, and IF the dispatchers did not have “google streets” or some other way to find it, and IF they were really concerned about THAT rather than just asking where they should meet George, THEN the conversation with the dispatcher would have been:
“Are you following him?”
GZ: No Sir, I’m looking for a street sign.
D: Don’t worry about the street sign, we don’t need you to do that.
The time: 1992. The scene: Mothers’ Day March on Washington, trying to raise consciousness about mothers whose support of their children’s allegations of child sexual abuse were ignored and used as evidence of unfitness of the MOTHERS. The gathering and the 3-minute mike were over and the signs were distributed and the moms (800 that year) began to march up 16th St. (or somewhere, I can’t remember) and one or another of us led a chant. Most of the marchers WERE mothers — crowd heavily female. Chants, marching, sun, bystanders. I was on the far right of a line maybe 3rd in front. A group of young guys, dressed “rebellious,” with that year’s rebellious haircuts, were to my right. Sort of sneering. One of them starts walking along with our march and kind of heckling. THey’re shouting to me, “What’s got you girls pi55ed off?” etc. I stop — while 6 or 7 moms try to rescue me back into line, counseling that I “ignore them” and “c’mon, forget them,” and so forth. I ask them, “What’s your question?” THey wanted to know what we were mad about. I told them in a nutshell: “When kids tell social services they’ve been molested, social services won’t believe them and the judge takes the away from their moms and punishes the moms for trying to help.” Three of them were right next to me. No expressions on their faces at all except the leader, who darkened considerably and stiffened up. THEN two of the moms got really alarmed (as the line passed me by) and I brushed them off and said to the guys, “What’s your take on that?” The leader screwed up his face as if to scream or spit and out came a loud:
TWO * FOUR * SIX * EIGHT, NO * MORE * BABY * RAPE! Whereupon they joined the march and led the chants. In the end they just vanished.
They looked VERY disrespectful in the beginning. But when I said, in effect, “What’s your problem?” they told me and we marched alongside each other. No casualties. Thereafter I lost visuals on the subjects.
Manny O, the point is not that your “Option 4” is impossible in the world of things that can or (very few) cannot happen, the point is that there is absolutely no reason to expect that it WOULD happen and no motivation for it to have happened and NO EVIDENCE that it DID happen. It is in people’s feverish imaginations that young Black kids are inherently evil and are about to hurt righteous “concerned citizens” for no good reason and that they therefore have to be severely dealt with and at times “put down” so that their nefarious plans cannot develop fully, but that is called “profiling.”
As in:
Black kid.
A55hole.
Punk (at least)
Thug.
What’s he doing HERE?
I’ll get him.
(get out of car)
“Are you following him?”
“Yeah.”
“OK we don’t need you to do that, OK?”
“OK”
A55hold, punk, thug. Where did he run to?
OH Here he is, disrespecting me, not answering to me, just jabbering away on his cell phone like I don’t exist.
“Why are you following me?”
“What are you doing here?”
Your option 4 is not impossible. It’s just LESS possible than about 4,629 other scenarios. All of which could be listed but don’t need to be, one of which refers to the flying saucer landing.
The only “evidence” of option 4 is George trying to make up a story to cover up his crime because by “Murphy’s Law” it turned out that his victim was not someone everyone ha previously read about on the crime pages.
Manny,
The point about the dispatcher asking about which way Martin went, and the address outside of which Zimmerman was parked is that this happened AFTER Zimmerman got out of his truck.
Zimmerman in the walk through claims that the dispatcher was asking this from the beginning.
He uses this imaginary conversation to justify getting out of his truck.
It is quite clear from the sequence of events in the call that he got out purely to follow.
He got out even though he could no longer see Martin.
.
It is simply not good enough to say that some events happened at some stage.
Things happened in a sequence in the call. Things happened at very specific times in the call.
It is only when someone is interested in the truth, and in not in cherry-picking selected bits out of sequence, that the unchangeable reality of the timing is necessary.
.
If you consider actual durations of movements, you will realise that Zimmerman’s walk through story is destroyed by his own recorded words.
That call is the one solid, true piece of evidence that we will ever hear from Zimmerman.
shano – Lets see…failing to appear at a hearing for a lawsuit where you are the plaintiff versus being a drug user, dealer, burglar/thief
Which one is more sinister on the face of it?
Malisha – Hey scenario number 4 is really not that crazy at all. No need to bring the green guys into this with hyperbole. Kids today have done worse things to people for less cause than scenario #4. Just read the crime report for a city a few days in the a row. sad but true
See, here’s the background music for that last comment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0
YEAH!
Reason number 6 for why Trayvon Martin did not circle the truck before trying to either kill George Zimmerman or burglarize homes in the neighborhood.
Trayvon Martin was walking home from the 7/11 thinking, “I’m cool; I’m supercool and white guys gots to SPECK me. They all gots to admit that I’m UP TO NO BAD. They all gots to admit there’s NOTHING WRONG WITH ME. They all gots to admit that I’m NOT ON DRUGS OR NUTHIN. They better damn well admit that. Every damn last one of them better admit that, right NOW. See, here’s one, just driving by in his legally registered vehicle, just driving around and I see him. He looks white. Looks like he’s not respecting me. Uh oh. Lemme show him how he better start respecting me. Here, I’ll look at some of these houses. THat ought to show him. Peer in windows and sh*t. Then he’ll realize that I’m respectable because I’m checking on people, to make sure they have cleaned up their houses all nice and proper today, to be respectable in case I come by to check. So I’ll look in these windows, to show this white guy that I’m the man, I’m the one who has the right to see if everybody’s doing what they need to be doing. I’ll bet he doesn’t make his bed with hospital corners. He needs to respect ME and I don’t think he’s doing it enough, nossir, not at all. Here, let me duck out here into the the darkness and see if he gets a little more respeck. OK? Did he? Uh oh, he’s a tough case, STILL isn’t showing me no respeck. I better make this REAL now. I’ll just emerge from the darkness, singing R * E * S * P * E * C * T, FIND OUT WHAT IT MEANS TO ME,
R * E * S * P * E * C * T, TAKE CARE OF T*C*B, Oooooooooh, a little respeck, SHOWWWWW MEEEEEEE a little respect, all this time, I keep on tryin’, you runnin out of fools, and I ain’t lyin…”
George doesn’t get it. He says, “Sh*t, he’s running…”
He misunderstood!
Trayvon was just singing “runnin’ out of fools…”
Damn! Then Trayvon thinks, “I better disappear into the darkness once again. OK now, here I am, hiding in the bush. Oh yeah, I’m gonna get a chance to really TEACH this boy all ’bout respeck, yeahhhhhhh, yeahhhhh, come to Trayvon, creepy disrespectful guy who was lookin’ at me wrong, COME TO TRAYVON.
Whereupon poor George, who has fought all his life to try to help the downtrodden, is trying to find a street sign. Trayvon gets it all wrong and thinks the punk is out of his truck because he is trying to show disrespect. This is just TOOOOOO MUCH disrespect for Trayvon to bear.
BAM, out of the bushes.
“You got a problem, homie?”
GZ: No, I don’t have a problem.
TM: You do now! POW!
GZ: HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP (X 30 or 50) wriggle wriggle wriggle
TM: POW POW POW POW [learn some respeck, muhfuccah]
GZ: HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP ZHHHHHHLPPPPP ZHHHHHHLPPPP
TM: POW POW POW MMA POW MMA POW POW
GZ: {“Oh wait a minute, I think I remember that I’m armed!”} HELP HELP ZHHHHHHLPPPPP ZHHHHHHLPPPPP
TM: YOu’re gonna die tonight, muhfuccah…
GZ: POW
TM: [So this is how it ends? My attempt to teach respect to an unarmed, easily overcome disrespectful white guy ends with him remembering he’s armed and me being surprised that this was one of those unforeseen events that is ultimately life-altering? Is that what it’s all about? My lesson about respect can never be delivered? My thuggery cut short — oh say it isn’t so — no, I better admit it, better let him know that he got me, so we straighten out who’s really the boss here before I give up the ghost, after having twice emerged from the darkness and once leaped out of the bush] YOU GOT ME. YOU GOT ME.
Yeah, that sounds real accurate. Tell O’Mara that’s the winning ticket.
Are EE Ess Pee EE See Tee, find out what it means to me,
Are EE Ess Pee EE See Tee, Take care of Tee-See-Bee,
Ooooooooahhh, a little respect,
SHOW ME, a little respect,
All this time, keep on tryin’ —
You runnin’ outta fools, and I ain’t lyin’—
BettyKath, I think the article said that George WAS PAID OFF FINALLY with the $18,000. He never paid his lawyer and he never paid his fine.
Here’s the quote: “But Aames soon went into bankruptcy, and for three years nobody was paid. Zimmerman’s attorney got sick and retired.
The case was dead for over a year until two days before Zimmerman’s arrest this past April, when Pantas filed a status update to the court saying that he recently learned through the bankruptcy trustee that in July 2011, Zimmerman was paid the full $18,000.
“No fees were deducted, and Mr. Zimmerman retained the entire amount of the check,” Pantas wrote.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/27/2871449_p2/zimmerman-failed-to-appear-in.html#storylink=cpy”
GEORGE WAS PAID.
His Lawyer was NOT.
The court was NOT.
GEORGE WAS.
I thought I responded to the already. Guess not.
George finally paid this off with $18,000. It might be in the same article, near the end.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/27/2871449/zimmerman-failed-to-appear-in.html#moreb
HAHAHA George stiffs an attorney and fails to pay a $10,000 fine in a civil case. Gee, this is a swell guy, just the honest sort of guy we all would admire. How does George get away with this stuff? Is it all his fathers influence?
Anyone else would be hounded for that ten grand until they coughed it up.
Martin just got away from the creepy guy and thought he was ‘safe’. George was still hunting him down so Martin wasn’t safe at all.
In fact, he did not know how much danger he was in until George knocked the cell phone out of his hand for ‘disrespectin’ TugBoat by askin’ him whats up?, George Zimmerman- the man in charge who has talked to the police about this suspect!
The nerve of this kid in his late teens! Talkin’ like that, sassin’ back to George. So George attacked him. Just like he attacked that undercover cop and his various girlfriends. Assault in the guise of ‘detaining’ Martin for the cops.
Otherwise really, Martin would have continued to talk to his girlfriend in his very familiar home turf of the common area next to his fathers fiances house.
You have to know how hard it is to get a teenager off the phone these days….George had to resort to violence in this case.
Shano, you wouldn’t lead a creepy guy to your home unless you were sure it offered you safety and you weren’t putting someone else in danger. Especially since it would be Trayvon responsible for making sure the kid didn’t get hurt. Much easier to deal with the creepy guy on his own.
Manny O “he chose to double back into sight and confront the guy because he felt disrespected by being watched like that for one reason or another and he decided to “teach this guy a lesson” in respect punk teenager style. Unfortunatley he was not smart enough to consider the possibility that the guy was armed”
Maybe Travon was just relieved he got off the street, away from the creepy guy. After all, if I was going to attack someone, and teach them a lesson in the punk teenage style (which is really up to interpretation, right? I think this style is to run, they are weak- they have to go make sure their pants are stylin’, go fix their hair, get a tattoo and smoke a fag. Listen to head banging music, not hip hop. PUNK ROCK. What is your interpretation?)
If I was going to circle back to attack someone- I would tell DeeDee I would have to call her back, then I would be really quiet so I could sneak up on the guy, and then I would bash him with the 32 OZ can of tea I just bought.
Thats what I would do if I was a gangsta’ Meth addict thug like TugBoat.
bettykath, plus his pre teen brother was home alone waiting for Trayvon. They were going to watch tv together. Why would you lead a creepy guy to your little brother?
Love your version Malisha, getting very close to what was possible!
Manny O, you say: “Hi Malisha – You leave out another possibility
4) Kid coming home from 7/11, chatting on the cell phone who noticed a concerned citizen “watching” him after he displayed unusual behaviour. Even though the kid was well on his way to being home (T-Junction) and out of any potential harms way and our of “the guys” sight, he chose to double back into sight and confront the guy because he felt disrespected by being watched like that for one reason or another and he decided to “teach this guy a lesson” in respect punk teenager style. Unfortunatley he was not smart enough to consider the possibility that the guy was armed in order to protect against vicious dogs in the neighborhood and he was the wrong one to take out his angst or imagined disrespect on.”
OK, I admit it, this is a possibility. But you, Manny, left out a fifth possibility.
5) Kid coming home from 7/11, chatting on cell phone (you and others hadn’t really admitted that part before, huh?) who noticed a concerned citizen “watching” him after he displayed quite normal and perfectly lawful behavior. Even though the kid was near the back door of his father’s girlfriend’s house, he didn’t have the key and knew he’d need to go to the front door to get in, but didn’t think that “concerned citizen watching him” was necessarily a normal kind of thing. He thought, “Hasn’t that guy got anything normal to do tonight like shop for groceries or something? Is that guy maybe high or racist or something? Well maybe I’ll just finish my chat in the area here where he can’t drive in and leap out of his car and grab me or something, and when I’m done, if his car is gone, I’ll go on home, but if his car is still here, I’ll stay until he leaves.” So he waits. And then a flying saucer lands. He’s a little concerned but he doesn’t mention it to his girlfriend; all he mentions is the “creepy guy.” After all, if he mentions the flying saucer to his girlfriend, she might not believe him. And he is a little more concerned about the “concerned citizen” than he is about the little green men anyway because he doesn’t BELIEVE that little green men abduct young African American teens, but he knows that there are plenty of weird pedophiles who might just do something like that — and all the FBI shows on TV can’t convince him that they would manage to save him at the very last minute, were that to happen. He doesn’t feel disrespected by the “creepy guy” but he feels “creeped out” by the creepy guy, so he ignores the green guys and stays on the phone with Dee Dee, chatting pleasantly. Dee Dee, by the way, DOES respect him and being on the phone with her feels GOOD. But then — the creepy guy shows up again. Trayvon says, “HE’s here again,” and the creepy guy attacks.
Nearly all the green guys take off immediately. One of them stays and witnesses MMA punches, and doesn’t disappear until the prosecutor starts taking sworn statements that will be subjected to scrutiny.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!
Stand by for possibility number 6), in which the reason to circle the car becomes even more clear, for all to see (whether green or not).