The evidence continues to roll in on the Zimmerman case. While the new evidence is not entirely bad for the prosecution, it does contain some evidence that will likely bolster the defense of George Zimmerman in the second degree murder trial over the killing of Trayvon Martin. Regardless of the ultimate impact, the evidence again shows (in my opinion) that prosecutor Angela Corey over-charged the case in Florida.
Some of the new evidence shows that Martin had traces of THC (the active ingredient of marijuana) in his blood stream and urine. Martin was suspended from school due to a marijuana offense (though it involved an empty marijuana baggie). Another benefit to the defense is that Martin father is shown denying that the voice calling out for help was his son — though he later changed that view when he says he was given a better recording. Other witnesses have indicated that it Zimmerman who was calling for help.
Generally, the existence of drugs in the system of a victim or defendant is admissible. The suspension would appear inadmissible under standard evidentiary rules.
There is also evidence that some neighbors described Zimmerman as a bully and a racist. That would help bolster the reported hate crimes prosecution being considered by the Obama Administration, though I still have reservations based on the evidence as it currently stands. Also the police viewed the shooting as “avoidable” — if Zimmerman had left the matter to the police.
I am not sure how much of the neighbor’s view of Zimmerman as a bully or racist could come into evidence. Such accounts, however, can have the benefit of further discouraging Zimmerman from taking the stand as a witness — always a benefit to the prosecution because (while they are told that a defendant has a right not to testify (jurors expect to hear from defendants).
On the whole, however, I would view the evidence as more positive to the defense. First, I have previously said that I was most interested in the distance of the shot and forensics. It now appears that Martin was shot from an intermediate range (no more than 18 inches and as little as an inch away). That would support the claim of Zimmerman that they were in a wrestling fight when the gun was fired. The greater the distance the stronger the case for the prosecution. The defense will likely present expert testimony to try to reduce the range further on the stand. Also, the report does have people at the scene saying that Zimmerman’s nose appeared broken — supporting the later medical report of the family doctor (though such injuries could occur from Martin defending himself).
Moreover, at least two witnesses appear to support Zimmerman in describing the man in the hoodie at straddling the other man and throwing punches. The report state that the man in the “‘hoodie’ [was] on top of a white or Hispanic male and throwing punches ‘MMA (mixed martial arts) style.’ He then heard a pop. He stated that after hearing the pop, he observed the person he had previously observed on top of the other person (the male wearing the hoodie) laid out on the grass.” One report also says that Zimmerman can be heard yelling for help 14 times on a 911 call recorded during the fight.
While the reports blame Zimmerman for getting out of his vehicle (he says that he was trying to get a house number for the police), that is not itself a crime. Of course, none of this means that Zimmerman was not the aggressor. Given the presumption of innocence and the need to prove the elements beyond a reasonable doubt, this evidence presents an added problem for the prosecution in my view. I have expressed skepticism over the way the case has developed and how it has been charged from the outset. As a criminal defense attorney, I would view this as a strong defense case even on the manslaughter charge, particularly given the poor police work at the scene.
What do you think?
Here is the police report.
Source: ABC and NY Daily News
mespo,
Manny reads–but he doesn’t comprehend what he reads.
Details Mespo, details!
“Try reading before sniping. You’ll look less silly.”
Shhhhhh! You’ll ruin the entertainment, mespo.
David Larry:
““Even the police report is highly critical of Zimmerman for not engaging in dialogue with Martin.”
Do you always have a tendency to just spout off?
The police report says nothing of the sort. Not that it matters to you.
*************************************
I think it’s you spouting off and looking pretty egg-faced in the process. Here’s what the report of the investigator says:
“The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party’s concern,” the investigators wrote.”
Try reading before sniping. You’ll look less silly.
“Even the police report is highly critical of Zimmerman for not engaging in dialogue with Martin.”
Do you always have a tendency to just spout off?
The police report says nothing of the sort. Not that it matters to you.
Animals being hunted are afraid too. We all have that response, humans do know fear.
Even the police report is highly critical of Zimmerman for not engaging in dialogue with Martin. Since George was the one who was profiling his victim and stalking, he should have let Martin know his intentions.
George is guilty of being an idiot. No doubt in my mind about that.
Elaine – Sure, here is what you posted
-Elaine M. 1, May 18, 2012 at 12:07 pm
-David Larry,
-One has to look at the root of the problem–and that was Zimmerman. -Zimmerman was the instigator in the story. His actions provoked the -response by Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman was the one who put the ball in -motion that night. He should have used better judgment…
As I said…if only ZImmerman has not been so dumb as to approach that wild animal Trayvon Martin.
You could swap in the name of your favorite large wild cat for Trayvon Martin and it would read like a cautionary tale from a remote continent where they have safari’s and tourist “used poor judgement” in approaching a wild animal
The underlying premise of this perhaps well intentioned argument essentially de-humanizes Martin into an unpredictable wild animal that only a fool would approach
And I don’t even think Zimmerman approached him, but that rather Martin produced the confrontation, yet the point stands with your argument supporting your point of view
Shano – Yeah right…we totally have “evidence” of that. its bulletproof considering it came from Martin’s girlfriend and she hasnt evolved her story over time or anything, oh wait, she did…nevermind
You have no clear indicator…considering Martin initiated verbal contact that he didnt follow that with an immediate blow to Zimmerman preventing any kind of civil response.
Yes, we have evidence that Martin had a justified use of force against Zimmerman.
George refusing to identify himself when Martin asked him why he was being followed
escalated the danger of any encounter in the future.
I was in my legal rights to punch a stalker in the face a couple of times in the ’90’s . If he told me he was with the neighborhood watch and offered to make sure I got home safely I would not have had to punch him. We might have become friends.
Manny O,
“Hey its fine, if you want to keep using the argument that Zimmerman was just so dumb to approach a human as if that human was a wild animal”
Good grief, what have you been smoking? You’ll have to find proof that I used any such argument. Are you just pulling stuff out of your nether regions?
Sling,
It’s pretty obvious that Zimmerman didn’t have any intention of confronting Martin himself. That’s why he called the police, and why he didn’t roll down his window in an attempt to talk to Martin.
It wasn’t until the suspicious person was away from him that Zimmerman exited his vehicle.
When someone was looking for Zimmerman to identify himself to Martin, I assumed that you meant back behind the buildings.
When Martin decided to confront Zimmerman, I don’t think he gave Zimmerman the chance to say who he was, and if Martin (as Zimmerman stated) said “You got a fuckin’ problem?” and then punched him, I don’t think Zimmerman was given a chance.
We have no evidence that Martin had a justified use of force against Zimmerman. We only have evidence that would support Martin hitting Zimmerman. We have no evidence that Zimmerman laid a hand on Zimmerman before that.
Shano/Elain – Hey its fine, if you want to keep using the argument that Zimmerman was just so dumb to approach a human as if that human was a wild animal
Just get hung up on semantic details, race bait, and call posters Zimmerman that way you can avoid pondering the reality of yours and others very real inadvertent dehumanization of Martin.
Gee what was i thinking, where else besides jungle and savannah do wild animals live such as tigers/lions/bears that kill people? Guess what? those are the only places that covers all of those common wild animals.
Shame on you for needless race baiting let alone avoiding a serious point being made
Does someone have a detailed map of the convenience store and the route to the place of the event and thence the route dead guy would have taken to get home with his snuggles or whatever it was that he supposedly was out buying? If so, please post the map on the blog. Also, neighborhoods like this do have house numbers front and rear. Was that the case here?
Mommy and daddy of Martin look good on tv but what do they have to contribute to the trial? Our boy was off with his hoodie to buy snuggles at the Seven Eleven. Then they are open to cross examinattion. Why was he kicked out of school? Why did he have pot in his system? Why do you let him walk through the gated community?
C.Everett Kook,
“I remember Manny comparing the killing of Martin to a halloween prank”
Glad I missed that comment.
shano: Manny O: George, is that you?
haha I said the same thing in an earlier thread, great minds etc etc
Elaine M.: Notice that Manny is the one comparing Trayvon Martin to a ferocious wild animal. Sickening is right!
I remember Manny comparing the killing of Martin to a halloween prank
I should explain the basis of the “WTF?” above.
If Zimmerman had wound down the window and interacted with Martin, that certainly didn’t happen in the course of the 911 call.
If it happened before the 911 call, one might have expected Zimmerman to mention it, and he would have had a good description of Martin when starting the call.
If it happened at all, then it would indicate something like the story suggested above.
idealist. lol, real wit.
idealist707 1, May 18, 2012 at 6:56 pm
“This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range.” Coroner…..
“I wonder if “intermediate range” is a term of art in autopsy work.” Dredd,,,,,,,,,
Idealist707 wonders if a more imprecise forensic statement could be found written by a coroner.
==============================================
As you say, they have their own little lame language that does not comply with other notions of “range”, which usually has to do with a weapon’s effective distance capacity.
Coroners over here evidently determine range by the number of nitrate particles on the skin. They forgot to do that, so they mentioned soot, another coroner word here.
Anyway, sorry about the cops hurting your lip.
“Sue the bastids!”
David Larry: “we don’t know if Zimmerman was afforded the opportunity to properly identify himself. “
We do.
Zimmerman was sitting in his SUV.
He says Marin approached.
It’s very simple to do:
– Wind down the window.
– Say “Hello. I’m with the local Neighbourhood Watch. Can I ask what you are doing here?”
Martin could have responded in two basic ways:
1. “I’m visiting my father here. Just coming back from the 7-11..”
or
2. Words to the effect of “Go F yourself!” or maybe just ignore Zimmerman
If (1) it’s probably all over – unless Zimmerman gets all officious and starts making demands.
If (2) Zimmerman can say that he’s calling the cops. He’s safe inside the SUV. He can drive away to a safe distance if Martin looked like doing some damage to the SUV.
Zimmerman had a clear and safe opportunity to check Martin out directly.
Now here’s something related to that that has had me wondering for a while.
Apparently the pile of evidence released recently won’t shed any light as it excludes statements made by Zimmerman.
I have seen reports that the cops told the Martin family in the days after the incident that Zimmerman and Martin had two encounters that night.
In the one encounter, they said that Martin approached the SUV – that Zimmerman lowered the window – that Martin asked “Why are you following me?” – That Zimmerman denied that he was following Martin.
Either the Martins in their grief and confusion somehow got that impression from their talk with Sanford PD, or Sanford PD actually said that. If that’s what the cops said, where did they get that story? Zimmerman would seem the only possible source.
WTF?
It seems we will have to wait for a trial before this gets cleared up, as the release does not include statements given to the cops by Zimmerman.
I just did some searching again on this question and came up with:
http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony
This is of course conjecture and centres on a ‘missing two minutes’. The piece proposes that
– Zimmerman followed Martin in the course of his 911 call, then lost Martin (This would be the narrative that most everyone accepts)
– Zimmerman returned to his SUV
– A problem with that theory is that had told the dispatcher that the patrol car would need to call him to find out where he was. That might be answered by Zimmerman feeling that he hadn’t done a wonderful job of explaining the route. He did mess it up initially with a ‘left after the gate’, but then got it right with ‘past the clubhouse’.
– Martin got annoyed and also went back to the SUV
– Martin asks “Why are you following me?” – and maybe this is a piece of conversation that the girlfriend reports.
– Martin heads homewards again
– Zimmerman follows him again
– Martin notices him following (again!), gets really steamed and waits for Zimmerman to come to him.
If this is what happened, it’s not good for Zimmerman.
He could have said what he was at when Martin passed him the first time.
He could have said what he was at when Martin asked him why he was following.
He would have had two clear opportunities to state his business.
It’s not particularly good for Martin either, but Zimmerman not explaining and getting out to follow him a second time would have seemed particularly creepy and bizarre. No matter who would have been standing their ground, it would be wiser to head home.
But IF that happened, one might have expected that Zimmerman would have called 911 again to say that the suspect had come back and was still in the area.
I hope the trial hurries up and starts so that this sort of question can be resolved.
“This wound is consistent with a wound of entrance of intermediate range.” Coroner…..
“I wonder if “intermediate range” is a term of art in autopsy work.” Dredd,,,,,,,,,
Idealist707 wonders if a more imprecise forensic statement could be found written by a coroner.
What English! What terms of reference or characteristics are satisfied, you ape.
Does he get paid too?
Out of which medical school did he flunk his exams?
Who elected him? By what margin? Oh he lost, but he knew the county commissioner who was his brother-in-law. So things worked out anyway. They are ol’ KKK buddies.
(Excuse a personal reference: The doctor, who was called in to “fix” my lip the cops split on a rock, was drunk and smelled like he’d been lying in his own urine when the cops rang. I hope he took a cab to the clink.
I got sewn up later. 7 stitches.)
Corruption does not only grow on Spanish moss hung trees or in palmy weather latitudes. I said that and am proud of it. And that was a “p” you saw,