Irish Bishops Issue Statement On Savita’s Death

-Submitted by David Drumm (Nal), Guest Blogger

zucchettoWe have previously discussed the case of Mrs. Savita Halappanavar, a pregnant woman in Ireland who died in agony when doctors refused to perform an abortion that could have saved her life. The Irish Catholic Bishops’ Office has issued a statement regarding Savita’s death. The statement provides no guidance that would help prevent a similar episode from occurring again.

Savita’s death has been a huge PR problem for the Catholic church and should lead a rational person to question those who claim to have the authority to determine morality for us all. A morality that cannot be sustained via rational thought should be discarded. This statement makes no attempt to rationally defend Catholic moral teaching.

The Bishops state that:

Where a seriously ill pregnant woman needs medical treatment which may put the life of her baby at risk, such treatments are ethically permissible provided every effort has been made to save the life of both the mother and her baby.

Note the use of the term “baby” to refer to a fetus. Conflating baby and fetus is a common psychological ploy to appeal to our emotional self rather than our rational self. Who do we want determining the best medical treatment, a medical professional, or a member of the Clan of the Red Beanie™?

In the real world, the choice often comes down to saving one life or the other. If an abortion is best medical treatment to save the woman’s life, the Bishops have an answer:

… abortion is the direct and intentional destruction of an unborn baby and is gravely immoral in all circumstances …

Apparently, it is not immoral to let the woman suffer an agonizing death that is easily preventable.

The Bishop’s statement also contradicts itself. On the one hand, the Bishops say that “such treatments are ethically permissible,” and on the other hand, abortions are “immoral in all circumstances.” An abortion, in Savita’s case, would have been a medical treatment that put the life of her fetus at extreme risk. Such a medical treatment cannot be both “ethically permissible” and “gravely immoral.”

The irrationality of Catholic morality is evidenced when a woman’s life is saved by an abortion. Often, she is then able to have other children that would never have existed without that abortion. A zero-tolerance of abortion alleviates the condition having to think.

H/T: PZ Myers, Dr. Jen Gunter.

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74 thoughts on “Irish Bishops Issue Statement On Savita’s Death”

  1. Sorry Seamus… UNACCEPTABLE!!! We must tell the Horrible Catholic church to STFU!!!! And, to stop sticking their noses in places where they don’t belong…. Don’t you think the life of a 30 year old woman, with another child at home is more important than a fetus??? I do. Enough of all the church crap…. The church is bogus anyway… We’re living in the 21st century, now, not the 13th!

  2. I think in these cases the preferred method is called the “Santorum” (from the Latin meaning “squeeky-cleanish bullshit artist”). The method involves the family and doctor pretending a natural birth has taken place instead of an abortion. A full funeral and mass must also take place for the dead infant, but only after any siblings are freeked-out when their brother/sister is brought home (in vilation of the sinful local health laws) and hangs out for a few days. The “Santorum” will be a sort of analog to the “annulment” in the Catholic Church, wherein powerful and connected familys have always been able to get ride of unwanted spouses and at the same time retain their phony-bologna religeousity.

  3. Sorry I’m late… I had a busy day today. Here’s what I have to say about this. First, What a shame that these uncaring lackeys of the church caused the death of this Innocent woman. It should be written into the Law, that when a Bishop makes this kind of decision, and it results in a death, that that then gets recognized as a murder!!! Until then, Irish Bishops… maybe all Bishops as a matter of fact.. should be restrained with their heads extended out over a bucket… at a guillotine site set up outside the hospital at each church controlled facility, so that, when they have the timerity to make such decisions, that then results in the deaths of innocent women… That they, will forfeit any” right to life” for themselves, if the mother dies. We must ‘put the fear of ghod’ into these monsters, who care little for their ‘Flock’ and much, much more for their church. They’re gotten away with way too much, for way too many years….

  4. Idealist I converted from Judaism to Christianity. I figured f you could beloeve in something you could not really see, feel, or touch why wouldn;t you go all the way and include Jesus in that?
    My minister calls me the devil’s advocate: I tell her that as well as my idea that the crucifixation and Adam and Eve were put up job; without the first there is no christianity, without the second, no people.

  5. leejcaroll,

    Thanks. Did you read all that?

    What a painting of how it was. 5 shekels versus 3 shekels. Nothing if less than one month old. And the first interpretation was of course incorrectly understood.

    This is the flimsiest basis for persecution of women that I have ever seen. And all based starting with a love-bearing carpenter–if we believe in legends—who becomes a church led by sexually disturbed men who fulfill their lives by dominating others in the name of the holy muffin.
    The hóly muffin who won’t even show his face at noon just any old day that suits him to demonstrate his existence. What a weak-assed excuse in whose name that these modern men choose to do this.

    AMAZING.

    Prostate operations?! Cut it off, and then make ’em eat it and then cut their throats. Eugenics, you know. Don’t want that bad seed to propagate.
    ============

    I’ll save my question for the jews and how they got out of this nonsense, if they did, until another time.
    One battle at a time.

    Muslims later. At least Mhhmd said that women stood equal with men in the eyes of Allah. That men don’t observe this. is as usual.

  6. I think the outrageous laws are intended to start court action to overturn Roe v Wade. But action against legislators practicing medicine without a license doesn’t go after the abortion question.

  7. leej, @3:57. Nice gentle, loving God is he. I prefer the goddess. She allows us more independence and encourages cooperation.

  8. Talk about going to the ends of the earth (heck the universe) to find a way to denounce her unwanted thoughts of being with a woman. Wow.

  9. rcampbell 1, December 1, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Dontcha love love the sick irony of man in dresses telling women——–anything?
    ========================================
    Good point.

    See my post just up-thread to leejcaroll on developing news in that regard. 😉

  10. leejcaroll 1, December 1, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    The church of eat, sleep, and be merry wake up married has gone into pontification mode following this prophet’s revelations:

    In an article for Charisma magazine, writer Cedric Harmon interviews a woman named Contessa Adams who claims that she was once possessed by sexual demons. Adams claims repeated attacks by a succubus — defined in the article as a female sexual demon that traditionally assaults men — made her contemplate becoming a lesbian.

    “Anybody that has been attacked by them will tell you … they’re worried [that] they could not find that pleasure with mortal people,” Adams, who claims to have “found Christ” in 1979, says. “Unless you’re strong enough to rebuke it, they’ll keep coming back. You must speak the Word of God, knowing you have power in the name of Jesus.”

    (Contessa Adams, Ex-Stripper Turned Ministry Leader, Claims Sex With Demons Causes Homosexuality). The great mystery being pondered is that if they don’t allow abortions in such a case, then the demons will reproduce and make wives of the priests!!!!

  11. To the Bedlar guy from outter space. The couple in the bathtub on the viagra commercial on television are in “AfterGlow”. That is a human thing where after they have sex they have to relax and enjoy what just happened. The television here is somewhat regulated by those guys in the pink caps who talk latin and have sex with male children. But that part is neigther here not there. The tv cannot depict the actual copulation because of the pink bennie guys in America and the tent heads or turbin heads in the muslim countries. Send that back to Remulak.

  12. SWM, my mother had to go before a male judge with no medical background (assumedly) and lay bare her medical and psychiatric history to get permission for an abortion. She was given permission to do so.
    One sister went and got one illegally. Luckily she was able to get the $200.00 so she did not have to resort to a wire hanger or a dirty back alley.
    My other sister;s obgyn did not do abortions, this was in the 70’s I think, but she had had xrays of her back that were taken through the abdomen. They did not know she was 6 weeks pregnant. Her doctor insisted she have an abortion sending her to a doctor who did perform them. It is my understanding they refused to even tell her the sex of the fetus because the deformities, from the x-rays- were so horrendous they did not want to help her fantasize about what the baby might have become had it been allright.

    The idea of no abortion even when you may not even know yet is ridiculous.
    It seems to me this starts the slippery slope (well it is already here in other forms) where a woman cannot drink, smoke, take medications just in case she is pregnant, and could be fined or worse because of the potential injury to a potential fetus.

  13. and here is the other side of it from http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081109083317AAt5yAo:
    The ones I checked ot make it appear G-d uses abortion as a punishment but he uses it.

    The Bible approves of killing pregnant women: Genesis 38:24, Numbers 31:17

    The Bible approves of abortion: 2 Kings 15:16

    God approves of abortion: Hosea 13:15-16

    People are not counted as persons until they are a month old: Numbers 3:15

    The Bible contains directions on how to abort any pregnancy caused by adultery: Numbers 5:12-31

    The Bible says that being aborted is better than living a bad life: Ecclesiastes 6:3-5, Matthew 26:24

    The Bible says that a person becomes a living soul when he BREATHES the BREATH of life into his nostril (fetuses don’t breathe): Genesis 2:7

    Jesus (as a Jew), probably believed that “life” began at birth, as explained in the Old Testament. There is no biblical support for an “anti-choice” position. Have you read your bible?

    Here’s what your Bible actually says about abortion:

    Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life:

    If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. — Exodus 21:22-23

    The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old:

    And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. — Leviticus 27:6

    Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons:

    Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. — Numbers 3:15-16

    God sometimes approves of killing fetuses:

    And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? … Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. — Numbers 31:15-17
    (Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

    Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. — Hosea 9:14

    Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. — Hosea 9:16

    Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. — Hosea 13:16

    God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents:

    Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. — 2 Samuel 12:14

    God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives:

    The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. …
    And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. — Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

    God’s law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women:

    Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. — Genesis 38:24

  14. Idealist I found this:

    The Bible has always regarded abortion – killing the child in the womb as murder, a crime punishable by the death penalty. The grounds for this judgment are “Thou shalt not kill” (Ex.20:13); Child Sacrifice, “he shall surely be put to death” (Leviticus 20:1-5); and Exodus 21:22-23, where an example of abortion is found:

    “If men strive, and hurt a women with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life” (Ex.21:22-23).
    In Exodus 21: 22-23, the Bible sets forth a minimal case with larger implications for justice to be served by the civil authorities:
    (1.) “If men strive… .”
    The plural “men” is employed for the purpose of speaking indefinitely, because there might possibly be more than one person involved in causing injury.

    (2.) “So that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow… .”
    An example of a premature birth. Even if no injury results to either mother or child, the man who causes the “premature birth” is liable to be fined and, in fact, must be fined. The Bible strongly protects the pregnant mother and her child, so that every pregnant mother has a strong hedge of legal protection around her.

    (3.) “And if mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life… .”
    An example of accidental abortion. If the penalty for an “accidental abortion” is so severe, it’s obvious that a deliberately induced abortion is strongly forbidden. It is not necessary to have a separate ban on any form of deliberate abortion since the maximum penalty is served by this statute. If man through his own reckless actions, unintentionally hurts a pregnant mother and causes her to abort a child, he must suffer the death penalty. How much more so for any person who intentionally induces an abortion?

    (4.) “if any mischief follow… give life for life.”
    The Bible strongly protects human life from the moment of conception. With the phrase “if any mischief follow,” the child has equal protection under the law from the moment of conception “life for life.”

    God does not make exceptions that tolerate injury to any pregnant mother, or any child in the womb. In fact CURSES “come upon” and “overtake” nations that refuse to administer justice (Deut. 28:15).

    If God does not tolerate exceptions to the administration of justice concerning murder by abortion, then neither should His people.

    Seems it is mostly assumption and interpretation.
    http://covenantnews.com/cspa990830.htm

  15. I mean really. people. What kind of nuthouse do you have over there.

    Two years(?) after Citizens United, which legislature challenges that? Noooooonnnnneeee.

    40 (?) years after Roe v Wade, practically every place is doing it. Do we also have municipal zoning ordinances restricting establishment too?

    What counts over there? Money? Power? Yead, we know.

    But Sct rulings are weird as to being subject to constant challenges on one grounds and not on the other.

  16. Tnx SwM.

    After Roe v Wade ruling, how can states keep challenging or try to restrict it? If is is not broad enough, surely these other wider stretching state acts cand be put down and establish precedent.

    PS Aren’t IUDs used in America? They are cheap, at least here. One time insertion. Finito.

  17. … and better prepared to do battle holding many more law and medical degrees than previous generations.

    Also, their male friends have been raised by mothers and grandmothers who fought the good fight and these men are fully prepared to support their female friends in this never ending battle. One doesn’t have to explain anything to them … they get it.

  18. SwM,

    What I find most gratifying is the young women 18-40 years of age who thought the battles their great-grandmothers, grandmothers, and mothers fought were won. They’ve discovered that the battle continues and they are on the front lines for themselves and their daughters. It’s heartening to see they are just as militant and prepared to fight as were their ancestors.

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