Submitted by: Mike Spindell, guest blogger
One of the sad lessons one learns, if they live long enough, is that permanency is an illusion. There was a time when most Conservatives in the United States actually cared about the country and its’ people. It’s not that I’m wistful for some bygone era that exists only in my mind, because I’m well aware that the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s were tumultuous times for many including myself. Nor do I have any great love for Dwight Eisenhower and/or Barry Goldwater who I did not vote for in 1964. Yet with all their conservative beliefs, these were men who actually understood something about the needs of people and the motives of some who would call themselves religious leaders. Many of us who have lived long lives remember when the public political discussion in this country contained actual, factual debate, containing depth of ideas, rather than the invective we hear today. The Republicans of the Eisenhower era understood that there was a social contract that existed in this country to ensure that there was a healthy, financially flourishing Middle Class, which is the engine that drives a prosperous modern society. Also Barry Goldwater, who was known as “Mr. Conservative” understood the danger that the Religious hucksters had for his party and the necessity of politicians to compromise. He would ridicule those prominent politicians in his party who would reject the ideas of evolution and blind themselves to science. He also really did believe that government had no business prying into essentially private matters. I disagreed with him on most things, but I at least could respect him, which I can’t do for many prominent politicians of today.
What happened? You know I’ve written about my theories in many of my guest blogs, what are yours?
What Mike and Tony said. Unless someone is in a cult or engaging in cultish behavior, most people who have lived in any kind of urban environment know a wide range of people. Rural areas tend to be a little more homogeneous in clusters because of lower population density and distribution, but that’s a separate issue.
@Nick: Within the circle I have frequent contact with exist conservatives, liberals, Christians and atheists and people that literally believe in magic, soldiers and civilians, public servants, corporate servants, entrepreneurs (besides myself), drug addicts, felons, ACLU members, PETA members, staunch libertarians, deluded Aynish, environmentalists, gay men, gay women, homophobics, misogynists and alcoholics. I have not led a sheltered ivory tower life.
I was asked what I thought, and these are my thoughts derived from my life experience. If you have issue with one of them, feel free to offer your own beliefs; do not be lazy and stand behind generalized sniping.
“If you have issue with one of them, feel free to offer your own beliefs; do not be lazy and stand behind generalized sniping.”
Nick,
I think Tony’s answer to your comment was to the point. What do you think about this change in the Conservative movement as evinced by these two quotes? Inquiring minds would like to know.
As for my own associates about half of the large group of relatives and friends I have are quite conservative, some Tea Party and think me very much a “Lefty Radical”. My own Brother is included in that group and I love him dearly. Fortunately, love and friendship trump politics.
I forgot at the end of my comment,
This is what government should do in order to keep things going.
Defend the nation and its people.
Put in place policies that allow its people to access necessities.
Provide education to the extent that the people can take part in the economy and in the cultural life of the nation.
Provide resources to the young, the old, the infirm and the injured to keep them afloat and to prevent a kind of carnivorous rageful greed from developing.
And don’t interfere in ordinary activities to the extent possible.
That would be maternalistic government. I have never seen it practiced.
TonyC, Socialize w/ a lot of conservative families, do ya’? You sound just like conservatives commenting on liberal families w/o knowing any.
Then the problem becomes this: We start to believe that freedom consists of the “right” to choose our authoritarian masters. We are bamboozled beyond repair. No, make that: We are Bamboozled Beyhond Repair, and in the fond habit of the advertisers, we are “BamBor.” We are all BamBor so much that we think we can be free by voting for one of the two (or for 60 of the 120 or for 100 of the 200 or etc. etc.) authoritarian masters offered to us. Picture the 13th Amendment saying: “Each citizen who is above reproach shall be able to choose his master or to change masters if he can prove abuse.”
And because we mistook something for liberalism, and never defined maternalism, which is the only thing that ever WOULD work, we have a little paper tiger to wave about while we get crushed. Yelling, “hey hey, ho ho” the whole time. I’m so tired.
People will no doubt jump at the word “maternalism” because since it has never been defined and nobody has ever dared even THINK about it much less utter the word, it is mischaracterized.
What do actual mothers in actual freedom do with their actual young?
Keep them from harm’s way to the extent possible.
Show them by example how to find food and drink.
Show them by example how to go about a day’s life and a day’s work.
Give them as much as they need in terms of resources while they develop.
Then stand back and let them do what they need to do.
@Gene: Qualifiers are important, Tony.
I passed my qualifiers, Gene! First attempt on all four topics.
@Gene: I just get tired of writing “I think,” and “it is my opinion” in every paragraph. I thought I would try a more general prophylactic.
Bruce said, “Mike, the best thing liberals are good at is spending someone elses money.”
Bruce does not seem to realize that once he pays his taxes it’s no longer his money. If Bruce doubts this claim, Bruce is free to file invoices with the IRS in an attempt to get “his” money back.
The liberal slur is his inner 3rd grade playground talking.
Qualifiers are important, Tony. The devil is in the details. 😉
@Mike Spindell: Obviously I have to preface this with the statement that all of this is my thinking and my opinion, only, so I can avoid having to qualify every dang sentence.
What happened to conservatism is technological successes. In communications in particular; the rising tide of information (Internet, hundreds of cable channels; cell phones with video and audio recorders in the hands of almost every American) lifted the boats of cynicism, doubt, and the disrespect of authority and rejection of patriarchy and organized religion. In particular, I am thinking of the enormous damage a video recording of an unaware public official (including cops and politicians) or a leak of their digital communications (including email, tweeted pictures, audio or video recordings of a meeting they thought was private) can do to their careers.
Conservatism relies heavily upon hierarchical authority; liberalism much less so. This is why conservatives revere hierarchical authoritarian, patriarchal systems; the military, the church, large corporations, the “traditional” family with a man in charge and wife and children suitably deferent.
Communications also produces a net rise in sophistication of understanding, and that too undermines hierarchical received wisdom. A significant percentage of American women that self-identify as believing Catholics frequently reject Vatican edicts on birth control and sexual practices. “Why” doesn’t matter, the point is that they are judging the validity of supposedly infallible, direct-line-to-God Papal decrees. Their respect for authority is eroding because their understanding is increasing.
Liberalism is not immune to the same sword, but it cuts differentially. But liberals are more cooperative than hierarchical, we have more equal partners or band-of-friends and fewer generals and bosses. It is why you hear complaints in Congress that the Republicans can be whipped into lockstep (a military, hierarchical, obey-the-general metaphor) but getting Democrats to agree is like herding cats (an independence, go-your-own-way, think-for-yourself metaphor).
The result is that Liberals already reject authoritarianism, so the rise of the independent-thinking voter doesn’t hurt us nearly as much as the Conservative.
So finally, what happens to Conservatism is this: In desperation in a losing battle, they resort to extremes. Extremes of affiliation (corporatism) to gain funding, extremes of positions, extremes of religion, extremes of draconian threats and legislation that all smack of restoration of their 1940s dream of patriarchal authoritarianism in politics, religion, and business.
Conservatives want people “in their place,” and that is only partially code for racial or gender discrimination. They want an ordered society where authority is respected and authority is attained by traditional means, coming up in the ranks, paying your dues, inheriting the throne, taking over as the man of the family when Dad dies. Their Party reflects those values; even their candidates dutifully wait in line to run.
The Democrats are less prone to that; many thought it was Hillary’s ‘turn’ but we let newcomer Obama cut in line; and Bill Clinton cut in line before him. When we had a candidate whose ‘turn’ it was, he lost to Bush.
So I will bookend by repeating my disclaimer; this is my thinking and my opinion. What has happened to Conservatism is the rise of technology eroding the very foundation of their inherently hierarchical philosophy.
“Conservatism relies heavily upon hierarchical authority; liberalism much less so. This is why conservatives revere hierarchical authoritarian, patriarchal systems; the military, the church, large corporations, the “traditional” family with a man in charge and wife and children suitably deferent.”
Tony,
The entire comment was brilliantly stated, but to me the above quote was the comment’s energizing kernel. Of course that is not the entire picture, but enough of it elegantly given, for the reader to fill in what remains.
Stewart was Elwood P Dowd, only w/o Harvey.
OS/AY,
My dad met Jimmy Stewart once. Said he was the same nice guy you saw on the screen.
Dredd,
Just pick number 1….. If you like that warm sensation running down your legs…… Number 2, if you can’t see and everything smells…..
oops … I meant Bush II not Bush I …
The era Mike S alludes to was a time when American characteristics inspired a moderate form of government that operated like a tide that lifts all boats.
The retro degeneration in our historically world-leading nation, expressed by bloggers up-thread, has unintended blow back consequences far away from home that will reach us negatively sooner or later.
For example, consider disturbing events in India that indicate they are cloning the right-wing slide in our nation:
(Hitler’s Strange Afterlife In India). Morphing into a wartocracy here in America affects the world in ways that are far from safe.
A nuclear-weapon armed nation of 1,241,491,960 people, which succumbs to the ideology of warmongers, is one of the unintended consequences of the Bush I policy coup that led us down Hitler road.
We are still travelling in the W direction and it will not end well for us or anyone else.
A change in direction is the appropriate response.
Like I said Bruce….
Mike, Is that why the tea bag elected Allen West? You must think conservatives are raciest. Is that why you resorted to calling me equilavent to the klan? The thing that hurts poor people most is inflation caused by printing money we don’t have, pure and simple it raises the cost of living.
“Mike, Is that why the tea bag elected Allen West?”
Bruce,
You’ve got Allen West, Herman Cain and little else. The truth is so plain, in so many statements by you “tea baggers”, that you are racists bigots. Look at the “birther” movement and understand that John McCain was born in Panama and Romney’s father was born in Mexico after his father fled bigamy laws in the U.S., with nary a protesting word from your cohort. You are really gutless hypocrites, who I could at least respect if you admitted your true racist feelings. As for West and Cain, there is no racial or ethnic group that does’t have its sell outs. There are even Jewish NAZI’s that have been outed. Just look at the faces at Tea Bag rallies, the RNC convention and Romney political rallies. You don’t see America as it is, but a bunch of White old farts who are upset that their racist/homophobic world is changing and that perhaps their power is waning.
Bruce,
There is a lot of wisdom on this site….. People who actually have the ability to think and are not afraid to cll bullsh&t or what it is…… The continuing deficit started under a republican… RMM and Carter got caught in the Wall Street paranoia…… Since then every president save Clinton has expanded the deficit….. I can only think of republicans that have occupied the office…..
I think mike called it right about what he teabaggers rally want….. I think all of us want fiscal responsibility…. But we got continuing wars to wage…..the MIC needs its money…..
Elaine’s post speaks volumes….
And OS, thanks for the trivia….. Didn’t know that about…. Jimmy ….. I guess it’s a wonderful life….. After all…..
The fact that neoCons tend to double-down now when they are wrong may indicate where they get their marching orders any more.
“What happened? You know I’ve written about my theories in many of my guest blogs, what are yours?”
The affects of propaganda jumped the linear tracks to thereafter follow bell curve acceleration towards madness.
Alzheimers disease accelerated to dizzy heights, suicide accelerated to become the number one cause of injury death in both the civilian and in the military spheres.
We were lied into wars following 9/11 panic, shock, fear-induced psychosis, and a GOP political coup (Mike S et al.) and a national policy coup (Clark, Reich).
Paranoid invasions and occupations of foreign nations based on lies and propaganda sapped us of our economic strength as well as our favorable status among the nations.
The damage that becoming unquestioning government followers brings then drowned us in an avalanche of retro policies until we were no longer recognized by the world as America any more.