Despite an international outcry and effort to pay traditional “blood money” in the Saudi legal system, the Kingdom has cut the head off a Sri Lankan maid for allegedly smothering an infant child when the nanny was just 17. The maid was decapitated by a swordsman in Riyadh under the country’s Sharia based legal system.
Rizana Nafeek was sentenced to death in 2007 but Sri Lankan government appealed the death penalty and many international groups decried the ludicrous trial and draconian sentence. While under arrest, the maid signed a confession written in Arabic that she did not understand and later retracted. It did not matter.
Saudi Arabia beheaded as many as 76 people last year.
Source: National Post
I heard from some wise person once, never believe what you hear and check multiple authorities for what you read. Gene, sorry to burst you bubble, but hitler had no use for the Christianity that you say he was. There was a movement to end all religions in Germany except for the state propagandist one authorizes by the party. But of course, you are well versed in theory and dissemination…. Hence, you’re familiar with propaganda and how it works, say it enough times and even you’ll believe it too….
Had Hitler had the Christianity of Christ as he taught it Hitler would have never been as we know him. History would not have been what we have in history books.
It’s not my belief, AY. It’s a series of direct quotes from the man himself stating his own belief in Christianity. In court, they call that direct testamentary evidence of a claimant’s contemporaneous state of mind. It is not a bunch of second hand information from people who were themselves occultists like Speer and Bormann which at best is present sense impression and at worst pure hearsay. That you can’t escape the straw man you built by misrepresenting my statement – which again was that Hitler was a Christian (and by his own admission) albeit a twisted one with an interest in the occult and not that “he’s not a Christian and occultist at the same time is inconsistent with fact” aka your straw man – is your problem. Mickey was the one insisting he couldn’t be a Christian and an occultist, not me.
I have presented evidence he considered himself a Christian. A Christian with an interest in the occult is no more an occultist than a Christian who has read the Lotus Sutra is a Buddhist. I even presented evidence where Hitler spoke against cults.
You, on the other hand, haven’t presented evidence he considered himself an occultist.
I’m not sure what your major malfunction is today and I really truly don’t care, but you can believe any fantasy you’d like to tell yourself and conflate an interest in the occult into occultism all you like.
Me? I’ll go with the evidence of Hitler’s own words proclaiming he was a Christian which was my point all along. Not whatever imaginary point you wanted to make up for me after accusing me of historical revisionism.
At/gene:
My take is that you are both right
Hitler was a controlling despot so he probably was a slippery eel
Your beliefs are exactly that….lt may be your proof…. You profess to be smart enough to know you can’t believe everything you read ….. And with the new world order what you hear…..I agree one thing for certain is futile…. Having a reasonable conversation with you n this topic…..
“No one will ever know for certain gene”
Other than anyone listening to the man himself, in words from his own mouth. The quotes above – historically and accurately attributable to Hitler – indicate that he espoused his own Christianity. If you chose to ignore that evidence in place of supposition and uncertainty because you didn’t know him personally, then the study of history must be a largely futile effort if that is your standard of acceptable evidence.
No one will ever know for certain gene…. He is dead….I think…. No sightings that I’m aware of….. So you have your opinion of what it means….. And i have my opinion of what it means…..
Just like the two folks on Wall Street…. One betting that herbal life will be declared illegal….. Another one betting it won’t…… This will be certain in our lifetime…. As the Obama administration has to do something one way or the other….but, you or I will never know what hitlers beliefs were or weren’t….. At least with certainty….. No strawman involved…. We only have what we believe….to Bethesda truth at the moment…. In the end it doesn’t really matter now does it?
Btw, I’ve never tried shrooms…..
At least you’ll continue to confuse man with movement and his associates in what can only be construed as another straw man. That there were occultists in the Nazi Party (like Bormann, Speer and Goebbels) is already stipulated in above comments and tangential to Hitler himself and his beliefs. I’d already put out the second link @ 12:47 in support of my comments before the dozen or so direct quotes from Hitler evidencing his self-proclaimed Christianity @ 4:07.
His own testament to being a Christian effectively renders any assertion to the contrary moot.
Unless, of course, you claim to know his own mind better than he himself did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism_and_occultism to be fair Gene…. This wiki link takes you through many and various theories….
Then we move on to hitlers religious beliefs….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_beliefs
At least ill take the high road and put both sides out there……
Bet I can find a post in which one once referenced shrooms….. But that would be out right denial as opposed to plausible deniability….
Adolf Hitler Preached:
Ich bin die Auferstehung und das Leben, sagte der Sohn Gottes. Wer an mich glaubt wird niemals sterben, sondern ewig leben.
Nun zu den Gaskammern, juden
I’ll have to take your word on the ‘shrooms.
And if that’s you you bet, don’t go to Vegas.
Next…. Bet we will hear how there were no gays in the SS because all gays were in concentration camps…
Damn looks like you beat me to the floor again…. Shrooms will permanently alter perception….
AY,
Tis’ the facts that protest and just the right amount. Hitler himself said he was a Christian. Deal with it. Don’t you have an appointment with a floor somewhere that smells like stale urine and dried vomit, Mr. Straw Man?
Bron,
I won’t argue Hitler’s true love wasn’t power, but he was a Christian.
In the 1920s, Hitler’s German Workers’ Party adopted a “Programme” with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution). In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a “positive” Christianity:
“24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest.”
He proclaimed he was a Christian:
“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice…. And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people …. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.” – Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich (April 12, 1922) [emphasis added]
Hitler quoting the Bible (Revelation 3:16): “In the Bible we find the text, ‘That which is neither hot nor cold will I spew out of my mouth.’ This utterance of the great Nazarene has kept its profound validity until the present day.” – Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich (April 10, 1923)
Paraphrasing I Corinthians 13:13: “There are three words which many use without a thought which for us are no catch-phrases: Love, Faith, and Hope…. We are fanatical in our love for our people..” – Adolph Hitler, speech in Munich (May 1, 1923).
“It will at any rate be my supreme task to see to it that in the newly awakened NSDAP, the adherents of both Confessions can live peacefully together side by side in order that they may take their stand in the common fight against the power which is the mortal foe of any true Christianity.” – Adolf Hitler, in an article entitled “A New Beginning” (Feb. 26, 1925).
“We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls…. We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity… in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.” – Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau (October 27, 1928 – evidence of both his Christianity and his vision of himself as reformer).
“The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life…. The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed…. It will be the Government’s care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith. The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them.” – Adolf Hitler, speech to the Reichstag (March 23, 1933).
“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” – Adolf Hitler, speech in Berlin (Oct. 24, 1933).
“While we destroyed the Centre Party, we have not only brought thousands of priests back into the Church, but to millions of respectable people we have restored their faith in their religion and in their priests. The union of the Evangelical Church in a single Church for the whole Reich, the Concordat with the Catholic Church, these are but milestones on the road which leads to the establishment of a useful relation and a useful co operation between the Reich and the two Confessions.” – Adolf Hitler, in his New Year Message for 1934 (Jan. 1, 1934).
“No, it is not we that have deserted Christianity, it is those who came before us who deserted Christianity. We have only carried through a clear division between politics which have to do with terrestrial things, and religion, which must concern itself with the celestial sphere. There has been no interference with the doctrine (Lehre ) of the Confessions or with their religious freedom (Bekenntnisfreiheit ), nor will there be any such interference. On the contrary the State protects religion, though always on the one condition that religion will not be used as a cover for political ends….
“National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity…. For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of to-day, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life… These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles! And I believe that if we should fail to follow these principles then we should to be able to point to our successes, for the result of our political battle is surely not unblest [sic] by God.” – Adolf Hitler, speech at Koblenz (Aug. 26, 1934).
“I say that they can be solved; there is no problem that cannot be, but faith is necessary. Think of the faith I had to have eighteen years ago, a single man on a lonely path. Yet I have come to leadership of the German people….
Life is hard for many, but it is hardest if you are unhappy and have no faith. Have faith.
Nothing can make me change my own belief.” – Adolf Hitler, referring to his Catholicism in Nuremberg (Sept. 12, 1936).
Hitler prays: “In this hour I would ask of the Lord God only this: that, as in the past, so in the years to come He would give His blessing to our work and our action, to our judgement and our resolution, that He will safeguard us from all false pride and from all cowardly servility, that He may grant us to find the straight path which His Providence has ordained for the German people, and that He may ever give us the courage to do the right, never to falter, never to yield before any violence, before any danger…. I am convinced that men who are created by God should live in accordance with the will of the Almighty…. If Providence had not guided us I could often never have found these dizzy paths…. Thus it is that we National Socialists, too, have in the depths of our hearts our faith. We cannot do otherwise: no man can fashion world-history or the history of peoples unless upon his purpose and his powers there rests the blessings of this Providence.” – Adolf Hitler, speech at Wurzburg (June 27, 1937).
More prayer: “As Fuehrer of the German people and Chancellor of the Reich, I can thank God at this moment that he has so wonderfully blessed us in our hard struggle for what is our right, and beg Him that we and all other nations may find the right way, so that not only the German people but all Europe may once more be granted the blessing of peace.” – Adolf Hitler, speech to the Reichstag (Oct. 6, 1939).
Doh! He does it again: “May therefore God give us the strength to continue to do our duty and with this prayer we bow in homage before our dead heroes, before those whom they have left behind in bereavement, and before all the other victims of this war.” – Adolf Hitler, ending prayer in the radio address of March 15, 1942.
Hitler speaking against cults and cultism: “National Socialism is not a cult-movement– a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship…. We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else– in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will– not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord…. Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.” – Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg (Sept. 6, 1938).
God picked him a special!: “God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work….
Only He can relieve me of this duty Who called me to it. It was in the hand of Providence to snuff me out by the bomb that exploded only one and a half meters from me on July 20, and thus to terminate my life’s work. That the Almighty protected me on that day I consider a renewed affirmation of the task entrusted to me….
Therefore, it is all the more necessary on this twelfth anniversary of the rise to power to strengthen the heart more than ever before and to steel ourselves in the holy determination to wield the sword, no-matter where and under what circumstances, until final victory crowns our efforts….
In the years to come I shall continue on this road, uncompromisingly safeguarding my people’s interests, oblivious to all misery and danger, and filled with the holy conviction that God the Almighty will not abandon him who, during all his life, had no desire but to save his people from a fate it had never deserved, neither by virtue of its number nor by way of its importance….
In vowing ourselves to one another, we are entitled to stand before the Almighty and ask Him for His grace and His blessing. No people can do more than that everybody who can fight, fights, and that everybody who can work, works, and that they all sacrifice in common, filled with but one thought: to safeguard freedom and national honor and thus the future of life.” – Adolf Hitler, in a radio address of Jan. 30, 1945.
By his own words (not those of Bormann, an avowed occultist), Hitler was a Christian.
That he wasn’t a very good Christian – possibly the worst in recorded history – is beside the point.
To say Hitler was a Christian doing what he did is a blasphemous statement. Jesus in us would not war.
And doth protest too much…. Hmmmm
Ah the master speaks …
AY,
You were going to post what exactly? More evidence as to what I said? Speer was also a member of the Thule Society. What Bron did was post more material evidencing that when Hitler spoke “[p]rivately, when he was dealing with his more occult oriented friends like Joseph Goebbels and Martin Bormann (both members of the Thule Society which did play an instrumental part in his rise to power as early supporters of what would become the Nazi Party), he frequently criticised Christianity. This, however, would also comport with him be lapsed from an organized religion and most of his criticism focused on the organization rather than the religion itself. When dealing with other members of his staff who were themselves staunch Christians like General Gerhard Engel and Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber, he spoke like a true believer. [. . .] Publicly, Hitler frequently spoke positively about the Christian German culture, his belief in an Aryan Christ, and concurrent with the attempt to create the National Reich Church he espoused the twisted form of positive Christianity that institution was to be built upon.” Which lo and behold is still an accurate statement and not a reflection of your misrepresentation of my statements when you said “Your argument that he’s not a Christian and occultist at the same time is inconsistent with fact” – which was not my argument at all.
My argument is that he was a Christian albeit a twisted one.
Did you get that? Need Elvis to assist your in reading comprehension? How about Jack? Don’t know him either, eh?
I suppose straw men – an amateur night tactic even for you – and baseless accusations of historical revisionism mean nothing to you either.
Gene H:
if he was a Christian, why was he trying to replace Christianity in Germany instead of just subverting it to the National Socialist agenda?
Just because he was raised as a Christian and went to a Christian school for a few years of his life doesnt mean he was a Christian.
Many people reject Christianity in their 20’s. Hitler’s religion was power.
Bron,
I was going to post that… Thanks….