Criminal law, Society, Uncategorized

Facebook Photo Of Child Holding Rifle Leads To Alleged Late Night Raid On New Jersey Home

jerseygun2-225x300Shawn Moore is a certified firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association and a New Jersey hunter education instructor. He was proud of his son for recently passing his hunter’s permit course and posted this picture of his boy in camouflage holding his .22 rifle. A Facebook “friend” saw the picture and reported him to the New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families for child endangerment. Moore says that his home was raided, searched, and he was threatened with the loss of custody in response to the complaint.


While not commenting on the alleged raid, Department Spokesperson Kristen Brown said. “We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.” That is a bit surprising if the allegation describes lawful conduct. Children are allowed to hunt in New Jersey. I had assumed that there was some screening that occurs. Moreover, I am not sure why there is no intermediate step short of the search of the home.

Moore says that he received an text message from his wife that the Carneys Point Police Dept. and the New Jersey Dept. of Children and Families were at the home demanding to see his guns and gun safe. The officers were told by his lawyer to leave the home absent a warrant. He says that that officers responded that the demand for them to get a warrant was “suspicious” behavior. If true, that would be highly abusive and unconstitutional. A citizen invoking their rights does not create reasonable suspicion, let alone probable cause. While the officers said that they would get a warrant, he says that they never returned.

It does strike me as odd that anyone can trigger such an action based on a photo that does not show any illegal action or conduct that is demonstrably dangerous in a state where children are allowed to hunt and shoot such weapons.

What do you think?

Source: Yahoo

171 thoughts on “Facebook Photo Of Child Holding Rifle Leads To Alleged Late Night Raid On New Jersey Home”

  1. Magginkat, it is .22……And it doesnt look like an ‘AK47’, it looks like an AR15……At least try to sound like you know what you’re talking about you Daffys broad. Since when did ignorance become a virtue?

  2. Any information on the identity of the ‘concerned friend’ who reported this? They need proper credit.

  3. I don’t approve of guns, especially in the hands of children, but what child protective services did was appalling. Get some background first, guys!

  4. Some people get the vapors when they see a firearm in almost any context. Especially if a youngster is involved. Emotion takes over when logic would work better. My experiences with DHS following citizen complaints have been mixed at best. I used to have a relative, now deceased, who believed even the most wild-assed claim if it involved an allegation of child abuse or neglect. She instigated removing children from their homes on the slightest pretext if whatever was going on did not meet her personal approval. One juvenile court judge I knew well told me he thought she was, “Crazy as hell.” She would get police or sheriff’s departments to conduct raids like this all the time. The cases were generally thrown out by the juvenile court judges, but not until the families were traumatized and out a lot of money in legal fees.

    I got a Daisy “Red Ryder” BB gun for Christmas when I was five. My dad taught me to shoot, and he was a stickler for gun safety. The most trouble I ever got into as a kid was when I pointed that BB gun at another kid. Of course, the other kid was far out of range of the BB gun, but I never saw my dad so angry before or since. I never did that again. In teaching me to shoot, we would shoot locusts out of a big tree in the back yard. I suppose if that were now, we would have been raided and I would have been put in foster care.

  5. junctionshamus,

    Imagine if DCF received a call about suspected child abuse and never sent a social worker out to investigate to make sure the child was fine.

    My daughter is a social worker for DCF–as is my son-in-law. They have to deal with all types of tragic family situations: babies with cigarette burns on their faces and other parts of their bodies, infants with fractured skulls, children scalded with boiling water, children beaten and bruised, children neglected, suffering from malnutrition, and living in filth because their parents are drug addicts–or just don’t give a damn about them.

    I agree that the police officers and investigators were wrong to threaten the family. Still, they needed to check on the welfare of the child.

    Not all social workers for DCF are “notorious, sanctimonious, self-righteous thugs.” Many of them are caring people who do a thankless job for not much money.

    *****

    Child welfare workers get first-hand view of tragic situations
    By GINNIE GRAHAM
    Tulsa World
    Published: 4/29/2012
    http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20120429_11_A1_CUTLIN342012

    Excerpt:
    It’s a common injury seen by child welfare investigator Jessica Martin, and it speaks volumes about abuse and neglect in Oklahoma: ramen noodle burns.

    Children burn themselves pulling the 20-cents-per-package instant noodles from a microwave, pouring it onto their laps or eating it prepared way too hot. Sometimes it’s an accident. Sometimes it’s neglect or lack of supervision.

    “I’ve seen more cases of ramen noodle burns than I can count,” Martin said.

    But there are far more dangerous threats to Tulsa County children, she said.

    Those are among a list of societal ills including drug use, alcoholism, poor parenting skills, lack of education, poverty, hair-trigger tempers and a reluctance by the public to get involved.

    “I don’t even know how many child deaths I’ve seen,” she said. “There have been so many.”

    The Tulsa World spent two days shadowing child welfare workers who respond in cases of suspected abuse or neglect. The Oklahoma Department of Human Services workers vary in experience, but they have the same obstacles and goals.

    “The pay is horrible and the caseloads are too large,” Martin said. “But we want to go out and help people. We want to keep children safe and get families the services they need.”

    Martin has been chased by dogs, cursed at and lunged for. She has walked in on parents who were smoking marijuana or had guns on the ground. Once, a parent saw her at a gas station, yelled threats and then went to get friends to back her up.

    “I took off out of there pretty quick,” she said. “Unlike a police officer, I don’t have a weapon. It’s just me going up to a door.”

    When a child dies
    Martin was typing a report for a prosecutor when a suburban police department called with a possible child abuse case. She sighed and rolled her eyes, frustrated by not being called to the scene two days prior.

    Martin knew it would be a long day – fitting in that new case along with interviews scheduled after a newborn tested positive for drugs at a hospital.

    “We are knocking on people’s doors and accusing them of abuse, so the first reaction is going to be hostile,” she said. “We’d like to be out there with police when it happens so we can get the information all at once. If we are coming in later, we try to talk to them and calm them down.

    “People don’t understand what we do. They think we have the power to just take kids. That’s not true. There is a lot that goes into it, and it involves district attorneys and judges.”

    1. Elaine – Based on MY training and experience, I’ve had to deal with particular CPS workers who, based on unfounded allegations, have destroyed more lives than they’ve helped.

      What’s also interesting is that, once an anonymous complaint is filed, it takes moving Heaven and Earth to find out the source of the complaint. Usually, the ones later determined to be unfounded, were personal in nature against the so-called “offending” parent or guardian. This was usually followed up by some lame-ass excuse for their (CPS workers’) actions.

      Here in Mesa County, Colorado, we used to have the “three harpies,” would would waste taxpayer money, going to courtrooms on cases where 2/3 weren’t even involved, but would go in an attempt to impress the DA’s office of the case being of such a magnitude, that three workers were required.

      I’m not saying that what may be accused is always a witch hunt, but at least if a CPS worker decides to take action, let it be with some foundation, and don’t be so ashamed of what you’re doing, that you have to hide who you are.

      In closing, kudos to your daughter and S-I-L if they’re doing their job right. If not, someone like me is always watching.

  6. “Item #2: Child welfare workers in this state (Colorado) are notorious, sanctimonious, self-righteous thugs, thinking they have powers far and above the mere mortals they serve. I can’t imagine those in New Jersey are cut from a different cloth. Having to respond to anonymous complaints without any further foundation is their stock in trade. -junctionshamus

    “Sanctimonious, self-righteous thugs” abound in this country.

    http://jonathanturley.org/2012/01/21/the-authoritarians-a-book-review-and-book/

  8. ” A Facebook “friend” saw the picture and reported him to the New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families for child endangerment. ”
    This may not even have been someone who knows the man/his family.

  10. Why isn’t the DA going after the social worker for intimating that the children would be taken away if a warrantless invasion was not allowed? There are multiple witnesses including the lawyer on the phone.

  11. Item #1: The boy has been shooting since he was five. He’s almost 11 years old. Notice that he has his finger off the trigger, just like his dad has told him to do. I’m not an expert on weapons, and will defer to Darren’s expertise.

    Item #2: Child welfare workers in this state (Colorado) are notorious, sanctimonious, self-righteous thugs, thinking they have powers far and above the mere mortals they serve. I can’t imagine those in New Jersey are cut from a different cloth. Having to respond to anonymous complaints without any further foundation is their stock in trade. Her not wanting to provide her identity is very suspicious and a great indicator of her knowing the wrongness of her unconstitutional actions. See: “Goose v. Gander” for details. Maybe someone needs to drop in on her home unexpectedly and see how many child welfare issues could be created.

    Item #3: It’s not far off base to think that the killing of Mr. Clements was specifically directed as a target hit, and not random, but let’s see what the investigation reveals.

  12. ‘In this case, the family believes someone called New Jersey’s anonymous child abuse hotline.”

    “State child welfare spokeswoman Kristine Brown said that when it receives a report of suspected abuse or neglect, it assigns a caseworker to follow up. She said law enforcement officers are asked to accompany caseworkers only if the caseworkers feel their safety could be compromised.”

    *****

    I’d say that the Department of Children and Families had to investigate the case once it received a report of suspected child abuse. I understand why a DCF worker might have wanted to bring a police officer or two along for safety reasons. That said, I think the police officers went too far in this situation. A social worker would be required to check to see that the child was okay. I think that the best thing to have done in this situation was for the DCF worker to ask to speak with with the parents and the child.

  13. This is outrageous.

    A couple things first. This IS a .22 caliber rifle. If you look at the magazine, and it is more apparent in the photo in the yahoo link, you can see the knob on the side of the magazine where the follower is. .22 caliber versions of this rifle have these and the magazine has a strip that is open and exposed. The standard 5.56 mm assault rifle does not have this.

    Also it is readily apparent this was just a picture of just a boy holding a rifle. The angle shows the person taking the picture is much taller than he and it is pictured outside a residence. That certainly shows the possibility the chid was at his residence and that a person of adult size was taking it. Couple this about him passing a hunting course I don’t see how this could be any more LEGAL for him to do what he is doing.

    Also, what is with the state claiming him to to be in danger when they are demanding to get access to the “LOCKED GUNSAFE” to determine the guns were not a danger to the child? Doesn’t the mere existence gun safe in itself show proof enough the parent is taking proper steps to ensure gun safety?

    I have commented previously on other topics of the abuses of Child Protective Services, this is a classic and textbook example of what I have had to deal with when I was a LEO, CPS threatening to take away the children if the parents objected to their illegal activities.

    And the the claim they have a duty to investigate, another jedi mind trick on behalf of CPS. Any sane investigator would have looked at this picture and saw nothing wrong or illegal and sent it back Case Closed. But, CPS and some rather moronic cops who got swept away with the case go in and violate the civil rights of these citizens with their illegal search and threats to deprive them of their children.

    And that they parents must have something to hide by demanding a search warrant and calling their attorney. BS !! THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO PRIVACY AND TO BE FREE IN THEIR HOMES FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCH BY GOV’T. There was NO probable cause to search this home and no judge would have granted a search warrant. Kudos to the father for standing firm for his rights, and those of all citizens.

  15. randyjet:

    “The cops have free speech rights too from what I know. They can even lie to suspects, so I cannot see that they were abusive even if they said that, which according to the article they did not.”

    *******************

    I’ve never subscribed to this notion that my government and its agents can lie with impunity to its citizens. Where does this idea come from?

    1. The SCOTUS has made the ruling that police are able to lie to suspects during interogation. The government has been able to lie since the founding of the US and this has been true of virtually all governments. Now if it is justified is another question and what should the consequences should be in another one too.

      I got a laugh out of Argentina complaining that the BBC lied during the Falklands War. They had based some of their military actions on the statements coming from the BBC which turned out to be a lie. I think most folks can understand such things, and use some common sense in judging official statements and whether or not lies were appropriate. Under oath, or in a legal proceeding, THAT is entirely different with different ramifications and penalties.

  17. Another lesson to not ‘friend’ anyone who asks cause you never know who some of these folk are, or what they will do.

  19. More proof that we are a gun crazy nation — both for them and against them. -mespo7272

    OT, I suppose, but…

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/us/director-of-colorado-prisons-fatally-shot-at-home.html?hp&_r=0

    Head of Colorado’s Prisons Is Fatally Shot at Home

    By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS

    Published: March 20, 2013

    “The head of Colorado’s Department of Corrections was fatally shot Tuesday night as he opened the front door of his home, the authorities said, hours before Gov. John W. Hickenlooper was scheduled to sign into law a series of restrictive gun control measures.

    The department’s executive director, Tom Clements, 58, lived with his family in Monument, near Colorado Springs in central Colorado, the authorities said. The police have not identified a suspect.

    Mr. Hickenlooper announced the news on his Facebook page early Wednesday, calling Mr. Clements “unfailingly kind and thoughtful.”

    “I am so sad,” he wrote. “I have never worked with a better person than Tom, and I can’t imagine our team without him.”

    Mr. Clements, whom Mr. Hickenlooper appointed to the post in January 2011, oversaw the state’s public and private prison system and parole operations. He is survived by a wife and two daughters, the governor said in the Facebook post.

    On Wednesday, Mr. Hickenlooper is expected to sign three gun bills into law. They would require background checks for all gun transfers, charge firearms consumers for those background checks and limit magazine capacities to 15 rounds.

    Some county sheriffs in the state have publicly vowed not to enforce the measures.”

  20. The Prof already summed up the problem with the police, ARE. “He says that that officers responded that the demand for them to get a warrant was ‘suspicious’ behavior. If true, that would be highly abusive and unconstitutional. A citizen invoking their rights does not create reasonable suspicion, let alone probable cause.” The cops did not act properly if that assertion is true – plain and simple.

    As for refusing to give badge numbers and ID? That varies by jurisdiction and departmental policy, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. If they are in a patrol car? They are numbered as well and that information can be leveraged to find out the officer’s identity should that be required (i.e. if you have grounds for a suit and can use subpoena powers you would not have in the face of a non-compliant department in filing a complaint).

    1. The cops have free speech rights too from what I know. They can even lie to suspects, so I cannot see that they were abusive even if they said that, which according to the article they did not. Just because a cop asks to search, does NOT mean that you must comply. In many cases complying with a reasonable request saves time and hassle such as allowing a search of your vehicle in a traffic stop. Unless the cop is corrupt and plants evidence, in which case,. your ass is going to jail no matter what whether or not you consent.

      In this case, the question is about the Child Welfare worker who refused to ID herself. This is highly unusual conduct, and I think the person should file a civil complaint against her and her agency for that action. My impression is that all such case workers MUST present ID. I am certain that they cannot simply come with the cops and haul a child out without any ID being presented.

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