This week produced a reminder of the lack of separation of temple and state in Israel where the government routinely enforces Jewish religious laws. Tourists at the Western Wall watched as women were arrested in Jerusalem’s Old City for merely wearing prayer shawls in defiance of Orthodox beliefs. Orthodox laws govern the activities at the wall and Orthodox Jews believe that only men can wear shawls and pray at the wall.
Women have been attacked by Orthodox Jews for trying to pray at the wall. On this occasion, the Israeli police arrested five women on April 11, 2013 — part of a group of 120 women.
A group called Women of the Wall organizes such protests. Orthodox rabbis forbid men and women praying together at the wall.
One ultra-Orthodox man was detained for burning a religious book belonging to the Women of the Wall. It seems that this faithful man does not see anything immoral in burning a Jewish prayer book.
The arrests led some to again question the control given ultra-Orthodox rabbis over the site. One could also consider the ongoing controversy of Israel’s general enforcement of religious laws that results in continuing controversies particularly with the large number of secular Jews. (here and here). The Israeli Supreme Court is viewed by many as nudging the country away from the enforcement of Orthodox laws. (here and here).
This description above isn’t quite accurate. Women are in fact allowed to pray at the Western Wall, but are separated from the men by a fence. The women who were arrested (and released after a few hours) attempted to pray in the men’s section. There is no rule forbidding women from wearing prayer shawls, although it does freak out some of the orthodox guys.
BarkingDog, “Four legs good, two legs baaaad! But other than that tolerant”
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That’s not even intolerant, that’s just prudent, heck, that’s just prudent if you have two legs.
Aside from the fact that some opinions from the dog-pack members are downright screwy and occasionally offensive to me (It does wake me up if it’s early so it could be cast as a plus.) I do enjoy the pack. I’m glad you guys showed up. Dogs (spirits, aliens and ‘others’ in literature) have wide latitude in their dialogue and I like that. The pack is cool, keep the dogalog machine in good maintenance. Peace out my canine brothers and sisters….
itichinBay: Kipling said it. Actually Jerusalem is quite diverse. One can be at an outdoor bazaar haggling with a merchant and along comes a group of thirty Christians of some ilk carrying a twenty foot cross on the trek they do over there and no one even pays attention because all that religion exercise is so common. The Wailing Wall is more sacred ground to Jews. They have their thing about shawls. It would like having an Arab take a leak at the Twin Towers site in NY. The Yorkies would let him have it with lawyers, guns and money. So each city may have its hallowed ground however hallowed be thy name. On EArth as it is in Heaven. etc Now dogs are different. Tolerant. Not religious. Not sanctimonious. Four legs good, two legs baaaad! But other than that tolerant.
Equal rights at The Wall. Or put em up against the Wall. Let all dogs pray at The Wall. I have never been to Jerusalem but a Wailing Wall is for Wailing and let Whalers be Whalers where ever they land. No pun intended.
Men of all Faiths are a holes when you are East of Corfu. Was it not Kipling who said that East of Corfu the Ten Commandments dont apply? He must have meant Texas too because of all the kiling they do in the name of The People of The State of Texas. BarkinDog has been to Jerusalem but he is too easy on those menfolks over there.
if they don’t stop it now women might start thinking they are equal or something.
now if i can just get a good hold on this stick…
The KJV endorses nudity. That means they could pray naked in their long hair. Men could do that too. Religions don’t teach what is in their own book. 1 Corinthians 11 >>
King James Bible 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Verse 14 is in a form of a question saying it is not a shame unto him. Had it not be a question it would be a shame unto him. 14 says it is not a shame unto a woman saying long hair is a glory to her being a covering. The shawl issue is a non issues. God is not against clothing optional. Why didn’t people see this before?
If you outlaw women’s prayer shawls, only women will… no, wait… only prayer shawls will… no… never mind.
The KJV endorses nudity. That means they could pray naked in their long hair. Men could do that too. Religions don’t teach what is in their own book. 1 Corinthians 11 >>
King James Bible 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
Verse 13 is in a form of a question saying it is not a shame unto him. Had it not be a question it would be a shame unto him. 14 says it is not a shame unto a woman saying long hair is a glory to her being a covering. The shawl issue is a non issues. God is not against clothing optional. Why didn’t people see this before?
Fanatical men with a stick up their collective a**. I get so tired of reading about crazy mono/megalomaniac’s (in every religion) cloaked in false respectability.
Religions like that are following the same I am better than you mentality that was against Jesus. That mentality is all to common in religions .
Consistent with Israeli terrorism.
Well, they wouldn’t give me a mattress in the first place. I had to ask for one.
artiewhitefox 1, April 11, 2013 at 12:24 pm
Come on guys, Satan jails people.
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I already had to go to jail. I didn’t think it was that much of a problem.
Satan created Jails. I tell you the truth. There is an unseen jail NDE people see. They think it is Hell. it is not Hell. They will see Gods light as hell. Whoever puts a person in jail has a devil whispering to them that they are doing a good thing giving guilt.
Come on guys, Satan jails people.
As a Jew and a father of Daughters I have abhorred this practice since I first became aware of it. The power of the Ultra-Orthodox in Israel has been great because of their Parliamentary system, despite the fact that most Israeli’s are not that religious. The analogy to the power of the Christian fundamentalists here is strong. The difference is that in a Parliamentary system even small parties can loom large when a government coalition needs formation. The good news is that in the last election the Ultra-Orthodox parties were excluded from the government and their power in Israel is waning. I welcome that and welcome the day when my own children/grandchildren may freely pray at the Western Wall without restriction.
Don’t forget to bring the men the money to stuff in your prayer request….. The going rate is about 5$…. That should tell you…..whose in charge….
Jailing Wall
Good point ”Justice Holmes”…. My parents always asked me why I did not have the same urge as they did to go to Israel. They went there 11 times. Even though I was brought up Jewish, I realized at a young age, that religion was mostly about control… and I didn’t like it. Now the question arrises… Will Israel descend into an Iranian type state…. Will they begin to arrest people for thought crimes? Is a blasphemy law in the books for future Israel? Will they begin to arrest Atheists? At age 68, I still don’t want to go there
The Jewish Taliban is hard at work making sure people don’t wear shawls! Isn’t there more important concerns for the Israeli government?
I am very sympathetic to the people of Israel but as it becomes more and more of a theocracy with police enforcing religions laws my sympathies begin to strain. Separation of the temple and state is a good rule. Unfortunately there is another country that we all know well that is beginning, in small dark corners,to think that this kind of religious law enforcement is a good idea. Of course, I won’t mention any names.
BarkinDog 1, April 11, 2013 at 9:22 am
What prays in Jerusalem, stays in Jerusalem.
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Are you sure you aren’t itchinbay? No fleas intended. That’s how you get the plague. Rat terriers, perhaps.
What prays in Jerusalem, stays in Jerusalem.
“the lack of separation of temple and state”
Great saying.